Maggie Thatcher has died

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

And therein lies another irony... The threat of people protesting at the funeral is actually making it more expensive in the first place...

 

Hardly, the security is for all of the dignatories that would have been needed even if no one was protesting. I expect the cost is based on similar public events like the Royal Wedding and the QM's funeral - neither of which had protestors.

[trousers]

Hardly, the security is for all of the dignatories that would have been needed even if no one was protesting. I expect the cost is based on similar public events like the Royal Wedding and the QM's funeral - neither of which had protestors.

 

I've no idea how the costs are split up but if there were no extra funds required to 'suppress' aggressive protests of some kind or other, over and above the norm, then I'd be surprised.

 

I would venture that Thatcher's funeral is more likely to attract violent protests than a Royal Wedding or such like.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

The cost for the servicemen will be free, It is part of their duties. There may be some police OT although Like servicemen they wil be on duty . but i guess . the majority of the cost will because of the police presence.

 

.

 

you're not an accountant are you! The military and police would other be doing their day jobs, them not doing so represents a cost.

 

I bet the £10m cost doesn't include the costs to local businesses caused by road closures etc

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I've no idea how the costs are split up but if there were no extra funds required to 'suppress' aggressive protests of some kind or other, over and above the norm, then I'd be surprised.

 

I would venture that Thatcher's funeral is more likely to attract violent protests than a Royal Wedding or such like.

 

I doubt that many protestors will turn up and because the Queen and so many VIPs like Clarkson are attending the police would have mounted a huge security/crowd management operation anyway.

 

Do you think Maggie is a tad hypocritical for letting the State intervene and pay for her funeral? Surely this is nanny-state/bog Government/socialism that she so campaigned against?

[trousers]

I doubt that many protestors will turn up and because the Queen and so many VIPs like Clarkson are attending the police would have mounted a huge security/crowd management operation anyway.

 

Do you think Maggie is a tad hypocritical for letting the State intervene and pay for her funeral? Surely this is nanny-state/bog Government/socialism that she so campaigned against?

 

That's one way of looking at it.

 

She was also an ardent protector of our democratic system. Our democratically established law makes provision for funerals such as hers to be paid for by the state. If people don't like that they can lobby to get it changed via the usual democratic channels.

 

So, which principle of hers do you think we should break first?

 

And why didn't people think about this 10 years ago?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

That's one way of looking at it.

 

She was also an ardent protector of our democratic system. Our democratically established law makes provision for funerals such as hers to be paid for by the state. If people don't like that they can lobby to get it changed via the usual democratic channels.

 

So, which principle of hers do you think we should break first?

 

And why didn't people think about this 10 years ago?

 

Paying for her own funeral wouldn't have been breaking democracy, it would have been an example of the individual exercising their own choice which she loved.

 

Why didn't people think of this 10 years ago? probably because they didn't think it would be practically a state funeral and cost £10m. Every PM who's died since Churchill hasn't had such a lavish, publically funded funeral.

[CB Fry]

What I don't get is how can a funeral cost millions of pounds? Some are saying it will cost the taxpayer £5m?

Surely all her supporters like CB Fry and Sour etc can chip in and pay for it as we are told there are so many?

 

 

....what am I a "supporter" of, exactly? Do tell.

[landford.saint]

I have a moral dilemma, I don't wish anyone any harm really, apart from Keith Chegwin maybe, but it would have been better for everyone if Ayatollah Maggie had never gone into politics. But on hearing of her death I cheered. The pain and suffering she has caused to millions is unforgivable. That we should pay for her funeral is despicable, are they going to pay for mine? No way Hose'. Let her family stick her in the ground and let God decide her fate.

[hypochondriac]

I have a moral dilemma, I don't wish anyone any harm really, apart from Keith Chegwin maybe, but it would have been better for everyone if Ayatollah Maggie had never gone into politics. But on hearing of her death I cheered. The pain and suffering she has caused to millions is unforgivable. That we should pay for her funeral is despicable, are they going to pay for mine? No way Hose'. Let her family stick her in the ground and let God decide her fate.

 

They probably would do if you were Britain's longest running Prime Minister.

[solentstars]

the whole thing is a farce..it should have been a private funeral and a tribute to her to st pauls for all those who want to pay her their respects and the hero worshippers who love her.shes not a royal and head of state so why are we building a celebrity culture round her has she will soon be forgotten by the young just like lady di was.

[solentstars]

I have a moral dilemma, I don't wish anyone any harm really, apart from Keith Chegwin maybe, but it would have been better for everyone if Ayatollah Maggie had never gone into politics. But on hearing of her death I cheered. The pain and suffering she has caused to millions is unforgivable. That we should pay for her funeral is despicable, are they going to pay for mine? No way Hose'. Let her family stick her in the ground and let God decide her fate.

agree its all a joke and i would say the same about blair or any labour leader who went threw this nonsense. Edited 15 April, 2013 by solentstars

[Sour Mash]

A range of views here including the suggestion her family are picking up half the bill http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9994872/Margaret-Thatchers-funeral-it-would-be-extraordinary-not-to-spend-so-much-says-No-10.html

[dubai_phil]

I have a moral dilemma, I don't wish anyone any harm really, apart from Keith Chegwin maybe, but it would have been better for everyone if Ayatollah Maggie had never gone into politics. But on hearing of her death I cheered. The pain and suffering she has caused to millions is unforgivable. That we should pay for her funeral is despicable, are they going to pay for mine? No way Hose'. Let her family stick her in the ground and let God decide her fate.

 

Perspective can be a wonderful thing.

 

From where you all sit I can see both sides of the argument and (when the loonies drop the stupidity) I can see real merit in both arguments. (After all I was one of the poor sods trying to pay a near 20% Interest on my Mortgage back at the end of her time).

 

It's when you step away from "just the UK" that you see how she made a real impact. The role she played alongside Ronnie (be it with the Greenham Common Cruise missiles or the rhetoric) she was a part of what caused the final break up of the Soviet Empire.

 

My fiance & her family in Poland & their neighbours simply cannot comprehend what they have seen on their TV's from the UK. To them she was a hero.

 

Stop cheapening the debate with stupid throw away lines that the funeral cost is not worth it. FFS her actions have saved just about everyone of you in the UK FAR more than 10 million quid.....

 

By freeing up the Eastern European block and letting you have access to cheap Plumbers & Builders for 20 years.......

[Wes Tender]

the whole thing is a farce..it should have been a private funeral and a tribute to her to st pauls for all those who want to pay her their respects and the hero worshippers who love her.shes not a royal and head of state so why are we building a celebrity culture round her has she will soon be forgotten by the young just like lady di was.

quote:agree its all a joke and i would say the same about blair or any labour leader who went threw this nonsense.

 

Were you educated in Thatcher's Britain? If so, then that is an area where she failed dismally, judging by your poor command of the language.

[solentstars]

Were you educated in Thatcher's Britain? If so, then that is an area where she failed dismally, judging by your poor command of the language.

oh dear get a life mate.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Perspective can be a wonderful thing.

 

From where you all sit I can see both sides of the argument and (when the loonies drop the stupidity) I can see real merit in both arguments. (After all I was one of the poor sods trying to pay a near 20% Interest on my Mortgage back at the end of her time).

 

It's when you step away from "just the UK" that you see how she made a real impact. The role she played alongside Ronnie (be it with the Greenham Common Cruise missiles or the rhetoric) she was a part of what caused the final break up of the Soviet Empire.

 

My fiance & her family in Poland & their neighbours simply cannot comprehend what they have seen on their TV's from the UK. To them she was a hero.

 

Stop cheapening the debate with stupid throw away lines that the funeral cost is not worth it. FFS her actions have saved just about everyone of you in the UK FAR more than 10 million quid.....

 

By freeing up the Eastern European block and letting you have access to cheap Plumbers & Builders for 20 years.......

 

Did MT's death make much of a impact on the news in Dubai Phil?

[Hamilton Saint]

Perspective can be a wonderful thing.

 

From where you all sit I can see both sides of the argument and (when the loonies drop the stupidity) I can see real merit in both arguments. (After all I was one of the poor sods trying to pay a near 20% Interest on my Mortgage back at the end of her time).

 

It's when you step away from "just the UK" that you see how she made a real impact. The role she played alongside Ronnie (be it with the Greenham Common Cruise missiles or the rhetoric) she was a part of what caused the final break up of the Soviet Empire.

 

My fiance & her family in Poland & their neighbours simply cannot comprehend what they have seen on their TV's from the UK. To them she was a hero.

 

Stop cheapening the debate with stupid throw away lines that the funeral cost is not worth it. FFS her actions have saved just about everyone of you in the UK FAR more than 10 million quid.....

 

By freeing up the Eastern European block and letting you have access to cheap Plumbers & Builders for 20 years.......

 

I think you'll find that the break-up of the Soviet Union had more to do with resistance from within - especially in Poland (remember Solidarity?) and Czechoslovakia - and the impact of key individuals with real influence, like the Pope and Mikhael Gorbachev.

[trousers]

[solentstars]

I think you'll find that the break-up of the Soviet Union had more to do with resistance from within - especially in Poland (remember Solidarity?) and Czechoslovakia - and the impact of key individuals with real influence, like the Pope and Mikhael Gorbachev.

agree and if i remember right maggie did not want west germany to unite with east germany again.but she did introduce gobachev to ronnie has a man the west could do business with alleged-ally.

[dubai_phil]

Did MT's death make much of a impact on the news in Dubai Phil?

 

Maggie is Dead. That was about it. Obviously we have Sky News & BBC World putting their slants on it, but the local news was more she is Dead she changed the world type stuff without the analysis.

 

You forget, Domestic Politics is something we "forget about" when we leave the UK.

 

I'll be somewhere over Czech Republic when the Funeral kicks off on the first leg of my trek to my Stag weekend.

 

I'll raise a glass to her memory, but not to the morons she ended up having around her when they head downstairs

 

(Norman Lamont did FAR more harm to the UK with his ERM bullkrap).

[dubai_phil]

I think you'll find that the break-up of the Soviet Union had more to do with resistance from within - especially in Poland (remember Solidarity?) and Czechoslovakia - and the impact of key individuals with real influence, like the Pope and Mikhael Gorbachev.

 

Never underestimate the role played by Lech Walensa.

 

But, (and we have seen comparisons in modern times with Bush Senior & Iraq War (Getting the Kurds to "rebel" worked out well for manufacturers of Sarin

 

Movement from within needs support from outside.

 

The "second arms race" Star wars and all that bullkrap did immense harm to the Russian economy when they tried to keep up. That gave Gorby his platform.

 

Reyjkavik was a key part of the changes. That came from a position of strength. That came from the combined actions.

 

In today's world how would current Politicians stand up? Syria for example......

[trousers]

[Hamilton Saint]

Never underestimate the role played by Lech Walensa.

 

But, (and we have seen comparisons in modern times with Bush Senior & Iraq War (Getting the Kurds to "rebel" worked out well for manufacturers of Sarin

 

Movement from within needs support from outside.

 

The "second arms race" Star wars and all that bullkrap did immense harm to the Russian economy when they tried to keep up. That gave Gorby his platform.

 

Reyjkavik was a key part of the changes. That came from a position of strength. That came from the combined actions.

 

In today's world how would current Politicians stand up? Syria for example......

 

No to mention the harm that the US's "permanent war" policy does to their own economy - and to their civil society. There has been, since the 50s, an unholy alliance between government, big business, and the "defence" industry. Eisenhower warned his country about this when he referred to the "military-industrial complex".

[OldNick]

Were you educated in Thatcher's Britain? If so, then that is an area where she failed dismally, judging by your poor command of the language.

I was educated in Wilson and Callaghans Britain, shows how bad things were then doesn't it lol

[Barry Sanchez]

I dont think it will cost anywhere near £10 million, I think it is a figure plucked from thin air. And by wednesday some journo will say £20

 

The cost for the servicemen will be free, It is part of their duties. There may be some police OT although Like servicemen they wil be on duty . but i guess . the majority of the cost will because of the police presence.

 

Unless the govt have built in a cost for demonstartions and damage that may be caused by the anarchists and rent a mob who turn up .

 

The business cost for the closure of roads?

Policing, overtime, contractors putting up security fencing etc etc.

[pap]

No to mention the harm that the US's "permanent war" policy does to their own economy - and to their civil society. There has been, since the 50s, an unholy alliance between government, big business, and the "defence" industry. Eisenhower warned his country about this when he referred to the "military-industrial complex".

 

Eisenhower was right.

 

This is a good read; chronology of Kennedy's time in office and his continued scraps with the military people.

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/marshall10.1.html

 

Rather scary. How many lives cut short by that policy already?

[Viking Warrior]

Another saint not an accountant . But have done quite a few ceremonial duties and a state funeral . Us service men didn't get any extra pay . We did what we had to . Take trooping the colour . The guards etc do this every year it's part of their annual duties like changing the guard at buck palace and horse guards parade . The military are required to do anything the gov or generals etc wanted us to do . Floods ambulance fire strikes etc . I still think the £10 million is exaggerated

[pap]

 

The archive footage from the first few minutes is excellent.

 

I liked seeing the woman with the placard that said "I exist on £47 a week. How can I pay the poll tax?". Given those riots happened 23 years ago, it really does show what an utter p!ss-take this "£53 a week in 2013" malarkey is, and Poll Tax is the sort of sh!t the Tories think they can get away with after a few years in Government.

 

The video is flippant in the section where you've got the vox pops, but you can't deny that George Galloway makes some decent points. Pop charts being manipulated for political purposes, the reconciliation between the "cannot speak ill of the recently dead" complaint with the treatment of Chavez, the gentle examination of cause and effect of what happened to the North, specifically the miners, once it was gutted. I've watched 25 minutes so far, and although it is clear that Mr Galloway can be something of a sensationalist bastard, I am not actually disagreeing with much of what he says; it's just my degree of agreement that differs.

 

He's saying the same things as most left wingers do. That we're not making use of our natural resources, and that Thatcher likely destroyed them for political reasons. That our employment rights have been eroded, that industrial areas have been massively affected by her policy decisions. Successive PMs using Thatcher's "fronds of industry".

 

I have to say, I only agree with George about UB40 to a certain point in their career, but I've already made points about hardship producing great art.

 

Update. I'm at 36 minutes now. He's banging into the poll tax.

Edited 15 April, 2013 by pap

[Ken Tone]

The obvious answer to the cost is to privatise the funeral. Sell advertising space on the route , tickets for the church, get a sponsor for the coffin, etc. that would be the Thatcherite 'free market' way of dealing with it.

[trousers]

[video=youtube_share;tJrWFoq2GIQ]http://youtu.be/tJrWFoq2GIQ

[pap]

[video=youtube_share;tJrWFoq2GIQ]http://youtu.be/tJrWFoq2GIQ

 

I take it your first video didn't get the desired effect

[trousers]

I take it your first video didn't get the desired effect

 

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Another saint not an accountant . But have done quite a few ceremonial duties and a state funeral . Us service men didn't get any extra pay . We did what we had to . Take trooping the colour . The guards etc do this every year it's part of their annual duties like changing the guard at buck palace and horse guards parade . The military are required to do anything the gov or generals etc wanted us to do . Floods ambulance fire strikes etc . I still think the £10 million is exaggerated

 

Of course they don't get extra pay but you have to apportion their costs to the funeral. If they weren't on funeral duties they'd be doing something productive i.e. their day jobs.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Never underestimate the role played by Lech Walensa.

 

But, (and we have seen comparisons in modern times with Bush Senior & Iraq War (Getting the Kurds to "rebel" worked out well for manufacturers of Sarin

 

Movement from within needs support from outside.

 

The "second arms race" Star wars and all that bullkrap did immense harm to the Russian economy when they tried to keep up. That gave Gorby his platform.

 

Reyjkavik was a key part of the changes. That came from a position of strength. That came from the combined actions.

 

In today's world how would current Politicians stand up? Syria for example......

 

And what distinct difference did Maggie make to any of that other than a PR shot of her in a tank?

[trousers]

@halfon4harlowMP: Huge credit to Blair and Brown for setting in place ceremonial funeral for Lady Thatcher tomorrow #MargaretThatcher http://t.co/RaAnCW94DE

 

[PhilippineSaint]

I was educated in Wilson and Callaghans Britain, shows how bad things were then doesn't it lol

 

You missed out Heath when Thatcher nicked our milk

[Viking Warrior]

anothersaint re Of course they don't get extra pay but you have to apportion their costs to the funeral. If they weren't on funeral duties they'd be doing something productive i.e. their day jobs.

 

Im assuming you mean Policeman. Soldiers will either be bulling their kit, on exercise cleaning their weapons, on the drill sqaure doing PT or lying on their pits. Like wise sailors would be doing something similar , swabbing the decks or getting ****ed. The RAF well they will be either polishing what arecraft they have, moaning and drinking Tea.

 

I now I was one of those soldiers. Have the T shirt, worn the Beret etc and done funerals both State and Military .

I had many years as a soldier.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Im assuming you mean Policeman. Soldiers will either be bulling their kit, on exercise cleaning their weapons, on the drill sqaure doing PT or lying on their pits. Like wise sailors would be doing something similar , swabbing the decks or getting ****ed. The RAF well they will be either polishing what arecraft they have, moaning and drinking Tea.

 

I now I was one of those soldiers. Have the T shirt, worn the Beret etc and done funerals both State and Military .

I had many years as a soldier.

 

I mean all of them. The opportunity cost of forces being used was included in official costs of the QM's funeral but strangely the Govt have tried to exclude for this one.

[trousers]

Privatisation saves the hard pressed tax payer another £40m....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22166526

[PhilippineSaint]

Privatisation saves the hard pressed tax payer another £40m....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22166526

 

Have they not learnt that trains are the weight they are for a reason?

 

Lighter ones were tried and failed as uncomfortable unable to stay on the tracks.

[Barry Sanchez]

Thatcher is not the longest serving prime minister.

[Barry Sanchez]

Privatisation saves the hard pressed tax payer another £40m....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22166526

 

Indeed, when will they ever learn? Lighter trains, less traction, more failures through burnt out motors.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Privatisation saves the hard pressed tax payer another £40m....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22166526

 

even by your standards you're getting desperate - how much is the public subsidy to this supposed private industry?

[Barry Sanchez]

It does always make me laugh, people who dont even know about rail privatisation.

[PhilippineSaint]

Barry me and you appear to agree on this thread apart from the fact that

 

Ding Dong the Witch is dead.

[Barry Sanchez]

I am a legend me cheers Propane Saint.

[trousers]

It does always make me laugh, people who dont even know about rail privatisation.

 

[Viking Warrior]

George Galloway total cock

[trousers]

@frankieboyle: This guest list is a damning inditement of the inefficiency of the IRA

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Well respected so far. Couldn't get out of work to watch it so watching on Skygo.