Maggie Thatcher has died

[alpine_saint]

She wasn't a great leader - just stubborn as a mule. Sure, she modernised the country in many ways, but that was a bi-product of her pathological hatred of the unions. She destroyed many of our manufacturing industries, divided our country North - South, and stated, quite openly, that the City would keep us. Her one good policy was selling council houses. A cute move - people with mortgages don't go on strike. I, for one, won't mourn her passing, as she, no doubt, wouldn't have mourned mine. She ruined millions of lives in the early-mid 80's. Thankfully, she didn't ruin mine as I was lucky enough to live in the South. Still, she was a frail old lady at the end of the day, and I hope that the end came peacefully for her. Airbrushing history is a very dangerous thing.

 

What a load of b*ll*cks. The unions destroyed the industry of Britain.

[TopGun]

She wasn't a great leader - just stubborn as a mule. Sure, she modernised the country in many ways, but that was a bi-product of her pathological hatred of the unions. She destroyed many of our manufacturing industries, divided our country North - South, and stated, quite openly, that the City would keep us. Her one good policy was selling council houses. A cute move - people with mortgages don't go on strike. I, for one, won't mourn her passing, as she, no doubt, wouldn't have mourned mine. She ruined millions of lives in the early-mid 80's. Thankfully, she didn't ruin mine as I was lucky enough to live in the South. Still, she was a frail old lady at the end of the day, and I hope that the end came peacefully for her. Airbrushing history is a very dangerous thing.

 

I agree with all the above.

 

The lady's not for returning.

[RedFear]

She wasn't a great leader - just stubborn as a mule. Sure, she modernised the country in many ways, but that was a bi-product of her pathological hatred of the unions. She destroyed many of our manufacturing industries, divided our country North - South, and stated, quite openly, that the City would keep us. Her one good policy was selling council houses. A cute move - people with mortgages don't go on strike. I, for one, won't mourn her passing, as she, no doubt, wouldn't have mourned mine. She ruined millions of lives in the early-mid 80's. Thankfully, she didn't ruin mine as I was lucky enough to live in the South. Still, she was a frail old lady at the end of the day, and I hope that the end came peacefully for her. Airbrushing history is a very dangerous thing.

 

yep, well said

 

doesnt look like you will get too many in agreement here though!

[scotty]

I wasn't alive when she was PM, but i've never known anyone who's polarised opinion so much still to this day.

 

RIP to a fellow human being, regardless of politics

 

Count yourself lucky. Her reign was the most hate-filled and unpleasant I can remember, and I've lived through Blair.

[alpine_saint]

yep, well said

 

doesnt look like you will get too many in agreement here though!

 

Yeah, 'cos its b*ll*cks.

[Lord Duckhunter]

What a load of b*ll*cks. The unions destroyed the industry of Britain.

 

Weak leaders like Heath, Wilson and Sunny Jim were leading us to terminal decline by constantly giving in to the unions. We were the sick man of Europe, a country with a past but no future. The fact that the reforms were not rolled back despite 13 years to do so, says it all.

[manji]

Excellent news.Cheered me up today.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

She wasn't a great leader - just stubborn as a mule. Sure, she modernised the country in many ways, but that was a bi-product of her pathological hatred of the unions. She destroyed many of our manufacturing industries, divided our country North - South, and stated, quite openly, that the City would keep us. Her one good policy was selling council houses. A cute move - people with mortgages don't go on strike. I, for one, won't mourn her passing, as she, no doubt, wouldn't have mourned mine. She ruined millions of lives in the early-mid 80's. Thankfully, she didn't ruin mine as I was lucky enough to live in the South. Still, she was a frail old lady at the end of the day, and I hope that the end came peacefully for her. Airbrushing history is a very dangerous thing.

 

What, like airbrushing the fact that the unions were crippling the country when she came in?

 

Or the fact she was basically voted into power on an anti-union platform.

 

Or the fact that people such as Scargill had effectively declared themelves de facto PMs under Labour prior to Thatcher coming in.

 

Or the fact the country was being bankrupted by Labour and the unions (sound familiar?) when she came in?

 

Yes, let's not airbrush history.

[trousers]

Con. History Group ‏@ConHistGrp56m

RIP

 

Labour History Group ‏@LabourHistory13m

@ConHistGrp From one History Group to another, our condolences, a truly important historical figure

 

Con. History Group ‏@ConHistGrp12m

@LabourHistory Thank you: a very sad day.

 

[RedFear]

Yeah, 'cos its b*ll*cks.

 

yeah ok alpine you've made your views clear as usual

 

I imagine you also suggest her freeing of the markets and love of privatisation had nothing to do with the mess we are in now?? Im sure thats all Labours fault (didnt she say that her greatest legacy was Tony Blair)

[Sour Mash]

Excellent news.Cheered me up today.

Why did an old lady dying cheer you up so much? Bit weird that.

[JackFrost]

She wasn't a great leader - just stubborn as a mule. Sure, she modernised the country in many ways, but that was a bi-product of her pathological hatred of the unions. She destroyed many of our manufacturing industries, divided our country North - South, and stated, quite openly, that the City would keep us. Her one good policy was selling council houses. A cute move - people with mortgages don't go on strike. I, for one, won't mourn her passing, as she, no doubt, wouldn't have mourned mine. She ruined millions of lives in the early-mid 80's. Thankfully, she didn't ruin mine as I was lucky enough to live in the South. Still, she was a frail old lady at the end of the day, and I hope that the end came peacefully for her. Airbrushing history is a very dangerous thing.

 

I'm afraid it's all too easy to blame Thatcher for how our manufacturing industries ended up.

 

Our manufacturing industry was declining long before Thatcher came to power, I believe it actually started under Harold Wilson many years beforehand. Even if she did make some bad decisions back then she had to deal with it when the **** hit the fan, and besides the manufacturing industry declined nearly 3 times faster under Blair/Brown than it did under Thatcher by the way.

 

As for Thatcher, an incredible woman considering where women's position in society was in the 1970s. Compare her in her prime to the current lot in the major political parties and it isn't a contest.

 

RIP

[shurlock]

What, like airbrushing the fact that the unions were crippling the country when she came in?

 

Or the fact she was basically voted into power on an anti-union platform.

 

Or the fact that people such as Scargill had effectively declared themelves de facto PMs under Labour prior to Thatcher coming in.

 

Or the fact the country was being bankrupted by Labour and the unions (sound familiar?) when she came in?

 

Yes, let's not airbrush history.

 

You've got a degree in history and politics? f**k me...

[Gingeletiss]

What, like airbrushing the fact that the unions were crippling the country when she came in?

 

Or the fact she was basically voted into power on an anti-union platform.

 

Or the fact that people such as Scargill had effectively declared themelves de facto PMs under Labour prior to Thatcher coming in.

 

Or the fact the country was being bankrupted by Labour and the unions (sound familiar?) when she came in?

 

Yes, let's not airbrush history.

 

Very much so this ^^^^^

 

Listen to all the Politicians on the news, respecting her.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

You've got a degree in history and politics? f**k me...

 

I do indeed.

[Micky]

Excellent news.Cheered me up today.

 

There's time to and time not to. You need help, seriously, you do.

[ecuk268]

I met her once.

 

She's was a lot shorter than she appeared to be when you saw her on the TV.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Excellent news.Cheered me up today.

 

Why? Bit of a bad attitude.

[Pugwash]

Mixed feelings about this.

 

Some rather ridiculous eulogising going on here. Yes she was a strong, outstanding leader and she was the type of leader the country needed at the turn of the eighties to rebuild Britain's self-esteem and get a grip on industrial relations. However, her disastrous Friedman monetary policies in her first two-three years nearly bankrupted the nation and was only averted by the combined rebellion of virtually her entire cabinet.

 

The Falklands conflict was a huge morale boost for the country at the time and enabled her to be a major influence on the international stage. The unfortunate consequences of the subsequent landslide election victory was an utterly amoral and corrupt government through the mid-eighties. For those that can remember, the scale of dirty dealings dwarfed anything in recent years from Blair and Brown.

 

Her management of the economy during the eighties wasn't the great 'rise in prosperity' that her supporters regularly trumpet. Much of it was built on the release of capital from privatising industries, the North Sea Oil revenues boom and the de-regulation of the financial services industry. Black Monday anyone?

 

A great leader, yes. But as with so many long-serving politicians she thought she was untouchable, whereas she actually became more and more out-of-touch with reality. Ultimately it was this arrogance and her autocratic attitude and own dogmatic sense of self-righteousness that got her dumped out of office.

 

I won't be cracking the champagne. She deserves recognition for giving us back our self-respect as a nation and for changing the work ethos of the common man. However, the damage her policies wrought to our manufacturing base and the fabric of our society will continue to disadvantage us for a generation. So, no - I won't be mourning her passing either.

[View From The Top]

I declare myself utterly delighted.

 

For those of you who dislike that, all I can say is, fu.ck you.

[Dimond Geezer]

She did a lot of damage to this country & sadly her legacy lives on. I wont celebrate her death, but neither will I look forward to the sanctimony we are about to be deluged with.

 

She got lucky, if it wasn't for the Argentinian nut case, we'd have been rid of her.

[hypochondriac]

I declare myself utterly delighted.

 

For those of you who dislike that, all I can say is, fu.ck you.

 

Thanks for demonstrating perfectly the mentality of anti thatcherites.

[Hatch]

They now finally have a suitable person for the 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square

[scotty]

Breaking news;

 

Ed Miliband actually says something.

[bridge too far]

Good post Pugwash.

[Wiggles31]

Mixed feelings about this.

 

Some rather ridiculous eulogising going on here. Yes she was a strong, outstanding leader and she was the type of leader the country needed at the turn of the eighties to rebuild Britain's self-esteem and get a grip on industrial relations. However, her disastrous Friedman monetary policies in her first two-three years nearly bankrupted the nation and was only averted by the combined rebellion of virtually her entire cabinet.

 

The Falklands conflict was a huge morale boost for the country at the time and enabled her to be a major influence on the international stage. The unfortunate consequences of the subsequent landslide election victory was an utterly amoral and corrupt government through the mid-eighties. For those that can remember, the scale of dirty dealings dwarfed anything in recent years from Blair and Brown.

 

Her management of the economy during the eighties wasn't the great 'rise in prosperity' that her supporters regularly trumpet. Much of it was built on the release of capital from privatising industries, the North Sea Oil revenues boom and the de-regulation of the financial services industry. Black Monday anyone?

 

A great leader, yes. But as with so many long-serving politicians she thought she was untouchable, whereas she actually became more and more out-of-touch with reality. Ultimately it was this arrogance and her autocratic attitude and own dogmatic sense of self-righteousness that got her dumped out of office.

 

I won't be cracking the champagne. She deserves recognition for giving us back our self-respect as a nation and for changing the work ethos of the common man. However, the damage her policies wrought to our manufacturing base and the fabric of our society will continue to disadvantage us for a generation. So, no - I won't be mourning her passing either.

 

Top post.

[maxi_sopez]

do we get a day off? the only important question of the day...

[manji]

There's time to and time not to. You need help, seriously, you do.

So when Osama Bin Laden died you were upset and had a bit of time for reflection. Or maybe your old man was gutted when he heard Hitler had topped himself.

[Sour Mash]

I declare myself utterly delighted.

 

For those of you who dislike that, all I can say is, fu.ck you.

Genuine question, why are you delighted?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I declare myself utterly delighted.

 

For those of you who dislike that, all I can say is, fu.ck you.

 

And this shows the average intelligence of those that are pleased. Can't come up with a well thought out argument on why they are happy someone has died, but instead just decides swearing is the way to go.

 

Is your Mum still alive?

[badgerx16]

She did a lot of damage to this country & sadly her legacy lives on. I wont celebrate her death, but neither will I look forward to the sanctimony we are about to be deluged with.

 

She got lucky, if it wasn't for the Argentinian nut case, we'd have been rid of her.

 

Agreed. ( Also with Pugwash's post )

 

I think many people's perspectives will be coloured by where they lived through the 80s, 'north' or 'south' - I wouldn't think there's much mourning going on in Barnsley this afternoon. However, 'celebrating' the death of somebody is something that should be limited to a very select few - Hitler or Saddam Hussein perhaps.

Edited 8 April, 2013 by badgerx16

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

So when Osama Bin Laden died you were upset and had a bit of time for reflection. Or maybe your old man was gutted when he heard Hitler had topped himself.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that Thatcher is akin to either of them? If so, you're more stupid than we thought (and that is prettymuch dog-thick).

[KelvinsRightGlove]

So when Osama Bin Laden died you were upset and had a bit of time for reflection. Or maybe your old man was gutted when he heard Hitler had topped himself.

 

I was genuinely disturbed at the images of the 'leader of the freeworld' saying this is a momentous day, and should be celebrated.

 

I celebrate the death of no-one.

 

Also, it's not exactly comparable. Osama was a terrorist leader, not a head of state. Not even a dictator, where as, much as her detractors hate to admit, and try to skip over, she won 3 elections.

[pap]

She set the police onto its own citizens.

 

She set the British people onto each other, the results of which are still visible today.

 

She created and us vs them mentality, a look after yourself mentality and shut down the North of England.

 

She will not be missed by me.

[Hatch]

Agreed.

 

I think many people's perspectives will be coloured by where they lived through the 80s, 'north' or 'south' - I wouldn't think there's much mourning going on in Barnsley this afternoon.

 

 

It's Barnsley, they wont even find out until Wednesday

[dronskisaint]

Thanks for demonstrating perfectly the mentality of anti thatcherites.

 

Also, for the sake of balance, the mentality of the eighties Thatcherites...?

[badgerx16]

It's Barnsley, they wont even find out until Wednesday

 

No, that's Sheffield

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

It takes a real loser to have to wait until their enemy dies of old age before they can celebrate.

[hypochondriac]

No doubt the greatest leader Britain has had since Churchill.

[scotty]

It's Barnsley, they wont even find out until Wednesday

 

 

:lol:

 

POTD

[trousers]

She set the police onto its own citizens.

 

She set the British people onto each other, the results of which are still visible today.

 

She created and us vs them mentality, a look after yourself mentality and shut down the North of England.

 

She will not be missed by me.

 

You're in good company....

Sinn Fein's Gerry Adams tells RTE News: "Margaret Thatcher did great hurt to the Irish and British people during her time as British prime minister."

[pap]

It takes a real loser to have to wait until their enemy dies of old age before they can celebrate.

 

Completely agree.

 

I celebrated the moment she was turfed out of office.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Sinn Fein's Gerry Adams tells RTE News: "Margaret Thatcher did great hurt to the Irish and British people during her time as British prime minister."

 

Coming from an IRA man.

[trousers]

It's Barnsley, they wont even find out until Wednesday

 

[Hamilton Saint]

She wasn't a great leader - just stubborn as a mule. Sure, she modernised the country in many ways, but that was a bi-product of her pathological hatred of the unions. She destroyed many of our manufacturing industries, divided our country North - South, and stated, quite openly, that the City would keep us. Her one good policy was selling council houses. A cute move - people with mortgages don't go on strike. I, for one, won't mourn her passing, as she, no doubt, wouldn't have mourned mine. She ruined millions of lives in the early-mid 80's. Thankfully, she didn't ruin mine as I was lucky enough to live in the South. Still, she was a frail old lady at the end of the day, and I hope that the end came peacefully for her. Airbrushing history is a very dangerous thing.

 

Agree most with this - of all the comments so far.

 

The most common view on here, and in the wider society (if you agree that there is such a thing as society!), is that she was a tremendous leader because she stuck to her opinions ("this lady is not for turning"). Well, a "conviction politician" is fine, if you happen to agree with his or her convictions - AND if he or she is willing to listen and compromise where it is clear that other views can be accomodated. Arrogance and stubborness, however, is ultimatley a corrosive tactic.

 

I have worked for bosses who who are arrogant, self-centred and full of themselves. They refuse to acknowledge any other point of view, regardless of peoples' wisdom and experience. Leaders like that end up completely demoralising the organisation and severly damaging team-spirit. They hire sycophants and yes-people and scare away people of substance and principle. And then they insult and disparage those with a more reasonable approach (the "wets").

 

You could say that she was a polarising figure - but that would suggest that, with her, there were two philosophical positions, or two competing visions. No, for her, it was her way or nothing.

 

In the grand scheme of things, one might consider her legacy a "corrective" to the excesses of the 70s. Perhaps. But as a person and a political strategist, she was not much to be admired - unless you enjoy being bossed about and ignored.

 

And then there was her alliance with Ronald Reagan. What a despicable pair they made as far as world issues were concerned.

[Seaford Saint]

Weak leaders like Heath, Wilson and Sunny Jim were leading us to terminal decline by constantly giving in to the unions. We were the sick man of Europe, a country with a past but no future. The fact that the reforms were not rolled back despite 13 years to do so, says it all.

 

And of course its all rosy today isn't it?

[trousers]

Former Liberal Democrat leader Paddy Ashdown says: "If politics is defined as having views, holding to them and driving them through to success, she was undoubtedly the greatest PM of our age."

[scotty]

No doubt the greatest leader Britain has had since Churchill.

 

Not impressed with Attlee (and Bevan) introducing the Health Service, then?

[Pugwash]

Our manufacturing industry was declining long before Thatcher came to power, I believe it actually started under Harold Wilson many years beforehand. Even if she did make some bad decisions back then she had to deal with it when the **** hit the fan, and besides the manufacturing industry declined nearly 3 times faster under Blair/Brown than it did under Thatcher by the way.

 

 

Sorry Jack, but that is just not true. The Manufacturing index of production fell by nearly 40% between 1979 and 1982, the steepest decline since the war. Less steep declines also occurred at the end of the eighties/early nineties and between 2000 and 2003, but none as bad as those first 2-3 years.

 

Some years ago, after Maggie resigned, they interviewed her old cabinet members and every one of them said how disastrous those monetary policies were. Even Milton Friedman was less than positive.

 

Having said that, this is an interesting article:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/22/manufacturing_figures/

Makes some good points, but kind of misses the point when it states that 'Maggie didn't eviscerate the manufacturing base'. Yes GDP has continued to increase in general terms, but we're all in service industries. Whilst it's nice to think we've all gone up the food chain by writing software code to design Rolls-Royce's latest jet engine, the computers that we use are all designed and built in Taiwan and the machine tools in Japan. And when we drive home in the evening in our German cars, we watch our Korean TV, put our clothes in the Italian washing machine and switch on lights that are powered by a French company.

[alpine_saint]

They now finally have a suitable person for the 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square

 

Dont know why they didnt leave Keith Park there...