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Maggie Thatcher has died

Saint-Armstrong

By Saint-Armstrong
in The Lounge

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
It will go to plan. They just haven't told you the plan.

 

If you haven't noticed, all this tub-thumping and demonisation of the poor business is about one thing only; keeping moronic victims distracted while more of the family silver is spirited out of the back door. You're not worried about the NHS, you're worried about the benefit culture and all these people having a rip-roaring (translation: hiding from loan sharks) time at the tax-payer's expense!

 

See, if the plan is to get the NHS private without considering what comes afterward ( does this sound at all familiar? ), then everything is going swimmingly.

 

It's a needless reorganisation - it will fail, on purpose - and the objective will be achieved.

 

btw, they have never shirked from this plan. Even when they were having "conversations", they were fitting up big health to take over services.

 

The NHS is nothing special, there are many areas where it needs reform, but as soon as anyone dares to think about it people like you are up in arms about it. The debate is not helped by the black or white argument put forward. It is either the NHS or the American system, whereas in truth is there are lots of better systems in between which would give the tax payer better value and also deliver free at the point of delivery. We have a health service that sometimes makes people sicker or even kills them in hospital, how is that the envy of the world? My Mrs works on the front line and can tell you horror stories about waste, poor nursing and lazy staff.

Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
So if our economy was run by the Germans we would have parity with what we have now? Or you mean as good as the German economy?

 

On the whole I find Germans more efficient and hardworking than the British.

 

At the end of the day Bazza. Thatcher wasn't a dictator that sold British national assets against the will of the nation, but someone who changed the country with a mandate from the people. She put her changes to the British people and they had a choice, Foot, Callaghan and Kinnocks version of Britain or Thatcher's. Every time the answer was the same and no amount of whinging or dancing on an old lady's grave will change that. Rather than take it out and blame her, perhaps you should be criticising the millions that voted for her.

Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

Posted
Posted

The Unions in Germay are strong? Heaven knows what they did there? Talk perhaps?

 

When someone says at the end of the day you know they are running out of steam. Thatcher did sell the nations assets against the will of the nation.

CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted
I always thought the private sector would rush in and take the slack left by the mass unemployment made by this goverment in the public sector, knights in shining armour they are not and neither are the tories. Im alright jack snides.

 

Iirc the number of people in employment are at record levels, which sort of suggest it has.

pap

pap

Posted
Posted
On the whole I find Germans more efficient and hardworking than the British.

 

At the end of the day Bazza. Thatcher wasn't a dictator that sold British national assets against the will of the nation, but someone who changed the country with a mandate from the people. She put her changes to the British people and they had a choice, Foot, Callaghan and Kinnocks version of Britain or Thatcher's. Every time the answer was the same and no amount of whinging or dancing on an old lady's grave will change that. Rather than take it out and blame her, perhaps you should be criticising the millions that voted for her.

 

David Cameron said there would be no top down reorganisation of the NHS prior to getting elected, yet is doing it anyway.

 

The likes of Labour and Liberal have historically supported students in opposition, but not in power.

 

Thatcher said she was going to get Britain back to work. She had a funny way of going about it.

 

My point? You don't get what you're promised.

bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted
Iirc the number of people in employment are at record levels, which sort of suggest it has.

 

I think you'll find that is a reflection of the number of jobs being 'occupied'. In other words, an awful lot of people are having to do more than one job because there are more part time than full time jobs available. So what seems like 3 jobs being created / occupied could well be someone working 3 hours here, 3 hours there, 3 hours somewhere else.

CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted

I wonder if anyone could have prevented the levels of unemployment in 1982, given what was happening economically in Britain at that time. Economic policy has a tendency to take a number of years to manifest itself, so I would suggest that both parties were to blame.

CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted
I think you'll find that is a reflection of the number of jobs being 'occupied'. In other words, an awful lot of people are having to do more than one job because there are more part time than full time jobs available. So what seems like 3 jobs being created / occupied could well be someone working 3 hours here, 3 hours there, 3 hours somewhere else.

 

Would be genuinely interested to see the figures on that.

bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted
Would be genuinely interested to see the figures on that.

 

I don't know if that information is collected by the powers that be. I'm basing my comment on personal knowledge of people (mainly women it has to be said as they make up the majority of public sector workers) who have lost their full-time jobs and have had to take two or three part-time jobs to keep their families fed and watered.

KelvinsRightGlove

KelvinsRightGlove

Posted
Posted

I keep seeing it pop up on twitter that Harold Wilson closed more pits than Thatcher. Is this true?

 

If so, why is he not attacked so vociferously by the left as those on the right?

 

I'm trying to track down the figures.

 

Sorry if it has already been mentioned on here, I have a horrific hangover, and haven't really been keeping up with this thread today.

CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted
I don't know if that information is collected by the powers that be. I'm basing my comment on personal knowledge of people (mainly women it has to be said as they make up the majority of public sector workers) who have lost their full-time jobs and have had to take two or three part-time jobs to keep their families fed and watered.

 

Found this which suggests that it is number of people as opposed to jobs. What can't find is how many of those are part time

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-statistics/march-2013/index.html

 

Trouble is even if we did have that figure, how would we divide that between those people who elect to work part time and those who want to work full time but can't.

pap

pap

Posted
Posted
I keep seeing it pop up on twitter that Harold Wilson closed more pits than Thatcher. Is this true?

 

If so, why is he not attacked so vociferously by the left as those on the right?

 

I'm trying to track down the figures.

 

Sorry if it has already been mentioned on here, I have a horrific hangover, and haven't really been keeping up with this thread today.

 

Might have something to do with the fact that he didn't use the police force as government stormtroopers, and boasted pretty much full employment at the time.

CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted
5b7ea5ac056a95ce60a40861c0082a90_normal.jpegRobin Brant ‏@robindbrant2m

BBC reports that RMT leader bob crow has told BBC london radio that thatcher can 'rot in hell'.

 

Not surprising seeing as he held a candle for Arthur scargill. One a the biggest hypocrites ever. Lives in housing association accommodation, whilst pulling down £140 k per year.

CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted
Might have something to do with the fact that he didn't use the police force as government stormtroopers, and boasted pretty much full employment at the time.

 

Agree with the gist if not the sensationalist government stormtrooper bit

Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

Posted
Posted

I don't see why we aren't mobilising the Yorkshire police force and sending them down to Canary Wharf to harass and assault bankers and other rich types (eg trousers) in order to sort out our loss-making, country-bankrupting, un-democratic financial sector that is wrecking our country.

JackFrost

JackFrost

Posted
Posted
Not surprising seeing as he held a candle for Arthur scargill. One a the biggest hypocrites ever. Lives in housing association accommodation, whilst pulling down £140 k per year.

 

Also a self confessed communist and a Millwall fan.

 

Say no more.

Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

Posted
Posted (edited)
Bob Crowe is a **** . If anybody should rot in hell . It is him . Anybody checked what his annual pay is .you will be shocked and find it offensive

 

Why? Since he has become the leader of the RMT membership has nearly gone up by a third, if that were a banker he would be on a lot more.

Edited by Barry Sanchez
Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

Posted
Posted

In the 21st century the ftse100 has fallen in value yet those companies' executives pay has gone up 200%+ in real terms.

Would make any union leaders salary look small.

pap

pap

Posted
Posted
Anyone else hearing Labour MP Glenda Jackson's rant in the commons right now?

 

Didn't at the time, but thanks for the recommendation.

 

Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

Posted
Posted

Barry . You ask why . Try dealing with him and his henchman . He makes Derek Robinson appear to be a right wing Tory . Crow lives in a council house and his salary is obscene . He complains of bankers doing nicely shame he doesn't practice what he preaches . A case of I'm alright jack sod everybody else especially the rail commuters

Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

Posted
Posted

Johny boy I agree with you bankers should not receive obscene bonus's . They should get nothing if the banks continue to lose money and should get bugger all until the banks have paid back the government loans

Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

Posted
Posted

He lives in a home not a house, I actually dont agree with that stance he takes but if his family live there and in the locality I can possibky see some reasons, I see you see his salary as a target to hit, do you know how many hours he works?

Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

Posted
Posted

Not as many as I do . He has regional officers and local officers to do the work . He's just the CEO who likes to spout off. So I suspect he does not work long hours . I only mentioned his salary in passing but it is still obscene . Home house one of the same the tax payer picks up any repairs etc . Barry are you one if his followers by any chance ?

Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

Posted
Posted

Crow goes on about class and class warfare . Given his ideologies .People like him should not be living in subsidised housing. I think doing this on a large salary says alot about a persons morals, or lack of. I would be very embarrassed if I earned over 150k a year and lived in subsidised housing . He should buy his own property . And let someone who need housing move in

Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

Posted
Posted
Crow goes on about class and class warfare . Given his ideologies .People like him should not be living in subsidised housing. I think doing this on a large salary says alot about a persons morals, or lack of. I would be very embarrassed if I earned over 150k a year and lived in subsidised housing . He should buy his own property . And let someone who need housing move in

 

I agree in the main, am I one of his followers? No.

Hamilton Saint

Hamilton Saint

Posted
Posted
Anyone else hearing Labour MP Glenda Jackson's rant in the commons right now?

 

Good stuff. I wouldn't call that a rant. It sounds like plain speaking to me - what they call, these days, "telling truth to power".

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
Didn't at the time, but thanks for the recommendation.

 

 

Good stuff. ( I also appreciated the bit right at the end when the Speaker shot down that pompous Tory's complaint ).

Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
The NHS is nothing special, there are many areas where it needs reform, but as soon as anyone dares to think about it people like you are up in arms about it. The debate is not helped by the black or white argument put forward. It is either the NHS or the American system, whereas in truth is there are lots of better systems in between which would give the tax payer better value and also deliver free at the point of delivery. We have a health service that sometimes makes people sicker or even kills them in hospital, how is that the envy of the world? My Mrs works on the front line and can tell you horror stories about waste, poor nursing and lazy staff.

 

I suspect we're on opposite sides of the middle ground in politics, but what you say about the NHS is spot on. In my opinion, it is a failing system, and like you, I don't think it's a straight choice between public and private. Look at the French health system, that should be the model we follow.

 

Successive governments pour money into the NHS, but is this improving the service? From my own experiences, I would say definitely not.

saintfully

saintfully

Posted
Posted
The NHS is nothing special, there are many areas where it needs reform, but as soon as anyone dares to think about it people like you are up in arms about it. The debate is not helped by the black or white argument put forward. It is either the NHS or the American system, whereas in truth is there are lots of better systems in between which would give the tax payer better value and also deliver free at the point of delivery. We have a health service that sometimes makes people sicker or even kills them in hospital, how is that the envy of the world? My Mrs works on the front line and can tell you horror stories about waste, poor nursing and lazy staff.

 

Wowzers, what hospital Lord D, what does she do on the front line and what are some examples of waste, poor nursing and lazy staff?

anothersaintinsouthsea

anothersaintinsouthsea

Posted
Posted
I suspect we're on opposite sides of the middle ground in politics, but what you say about the NHS is spot on. In my opinion, it is a failing system, and like you, I don't think it's a straight choice between public and private. Look at the French health system, that should be the model we follow.

 

Successive governments pour money into the NHS, but is this improving the service? From my own experiences, I would say definitely not.

 

Oh come on, the difference between the NHS in say 1995 to 2005 was huge - Massive cuts in waiting times, numbers of nurses, infrastructure etc

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Didn't at the time, but thanks for the recommendation.

 

 

About bloody time the Labour Party started acting like the Labour Party again rather than "Tory Lite".

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