Summer 2013 HCDAJFU / Transfer thread

[wild-saint]

15m for a 30yr old? No thanks.

why not, do you have to pay for it or something?

[Nigel=God-Poyet=Sod]

15m for a 30yr old? No thanks.

 

Have you seen this guy play? Cardozo is Benfica's top attacking player and has played in the CL and in the Europa. If we could get him, we would be stupid not to.

[Wrensup]

Belhanda I like, been linked to Aston villa for 12million so how about sell gaston and swipe belhanda. While we're at it get baranda too so we can a midfield of belhanda passing to baranda back to belhanda, and annoys most comemtery teams! HH

[Window Cleaner]

Belhanda I like, been linked to Aston villa for 12million so how about sell gaston and swipe belhanda. While we're at it get baranda too so we can a midfield of belhanda passing to baranda back to belhanda, and annoys most comemtery teams! HH

 

Belhanda just isn't in the same class as Gaston, trouble is unless we can get all there is out of either of them the question becomes academic. We need better players in front of either of them to see their real utility. Gaston and Suarez, probably one of the most lethal combinations you'll ever see but until we have a player who can move and keep the ball like Suarez Gaston will never be seen in his best light. Belhanda has had a pretty poor season this year, take Giroud away from him and it's not the same player.

[Webby]

Have you seen this guy play? Cardozo is Benfica's top attacking player and has played in the CL and in the Europa. If we could get him, we would be stupid not to.

 

Well, I suppose if he's that good! I was just looking at his age and thinking it's a lot of money for a short term return, but if that return resulted in a top 6 finish then it might be worth it in the long run cos it makes us more attractive for the players that we're looking for to make that top 4 push.

 

Add to that that we seem to have been linked with a few older players, this might actually be a tactic the club are looking at; buy older, experienced players of top quality that could potentially turn us into a top 6 side this coming season. It's a lot of money with little or no resale value, but, it may be seen as a ticket into the top 6, and if so, it may reap it's rewards the season after.

 

So, yeah, I take your point.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

My sources (one ex club and another just a regular supporter without being ITK) reckon we are looking at bringing in Oscar Cardozo from Benfica. Having looked him up, it could be plausible...he's fallen out with the Benfica manager and the manager has said either the player goes or he goes. Decent goal scoring record. 6 foot four, 30 so a little on the old side, but so is SRL and he's playing his best football at 30. Transfermarkt values him at £15.5m but at 30 years old and with Benfica wanting to get rid, maybe we could get him for less. Lots of agent talk about him going here there and everywhere but you'd expect that given his situation-if his agent is talking about Juventus, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City all interested in signing him then you know he's trying to drive up the price so he gets a nice pay day. The reality is, Benfica want rid and will probably sell him at a cut price. One of the more realistic rumours ive heard anyway so thought I would share.

 

Cardozo is frigging ace, he's like a more skilfull version of Lambert. However, he's again not the most mobile.

[Lighthouse]

why not, do you have to pay for it or something?

 

Yes.

[Gorgiesaint]

My sources (one ex club and another just a regular supporter without being ITK) reckon we are looking at bringing in Oscar Cardozo from Benfica. Having looked him up, it could be plausible...he's fallen out with the Benfica manager and the manager has said either the player goes or he goes. Decent goal scoring record. 6 foot four, 30 so a little on the old side, but so is SRL and he's playing his best football at 30. Transfermarkt values him at £15.5m but at 30 years old and with Benfica wanting to get rid, maybe we could get him for less. Lots of agent talk about him going here there and everywhere but you'd expect that given his situation-if his agent is talking about Juventus, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City all interested in signing him then you know he's trying to drive up the price so he gets a nice pay day. The reality is, Benfica want rid and will probably sell him at a cut price. One of the more realistic rumours ive heard anyway so thought I would share.

 

Interesting snippet, but if was a choice between the player and the manager at Benfica... well the manager isn't in a strong position to issue that demand against a quality striker. Benfica were supposed to be offering him a new contract, but given they lost the league by losing to Porto having been unbeaten all season until that last game, Portuguese cup final and Europa League final, they were rumours that he was going to be given the sack instead. Fantastic player if we could get him, but I'd be very, very surprised if he did join us - and I'd be concerned at what wages we'd be paying.

[Sour Mash]

Belhanda just isn't in the same class as Gaston, trouble is unless we can get all there is out of either of them the question becomes academic. We need better players in front of either of them to see their real utility. Gaston and Suarez, probably one of the most lethal combinations you'll ever see but until we have a player who can move and keep the ball like Suarez Gaston will never be seen in his best light. Belhanda has had a pretty poor season this year, take Giroud away from him and it's not the same player.

Well should definitely sell Ramirez on that basis. Edited 7 June, 2013 by Sour Mash

[JackanorySFC]

Well should definitely seel Ramirez on that basis.

 

Goes along with what I heard from a 1st team player at the start of the season over a curry with the family (happily tell you who in person next time I see you) that Gaston is by a mile the most skillful player at the club (and far stronger than people expected him to be) but the only problem seems to be that his footballing brain is too quick for the others, he see's balls and plays them and the lads at the end of it just miss out and keep (almost sheepishly) putting their hands up for not seeing it too. Only player on the same wavelengh, footballing brain wise is/ was apparently Lallana?

 

To get the best out of Gaston, and I still firmly believe his best could be one of the best players in the league, we need to spend big on a mobile striker on his wavelength.

[Smirking_Saint]

Goes along with what I heard from a 1st team player at the start of the season over a curry with the family (happily tell you who in person next time I see you) that Gaston is by a mile the most skillful player at the club (and far stronger than people expected him to be) but the only problem seems to be that his footballing brain is too quick for the others, he see's balls and plays them and the lads at the end of it just miss out and keep (almost sheepishly) putting their hands up for not seeing it too. Only player on the same wavelengh, footballing brain wise is/ was apparently Lallana?

 

To get the best out of Gaston, and I still firmly believe his best could be one of the best players in the league, we need to spend big on a mobile striker on his wavelength.

 

Exactly this, though say it quietly as the majority will tell you that you are talking crap and better players should be able to play with anyone

[hypochondriac]

Goes along with what I heard from a 1st team player at the start of the season over a curry with the family (happily tell you who in person next time I see you) that Gaston is by a mile the most skillful player at the club (and far stronger than people expected him to be) but the only problem seems to be that his footballing brain is too quick for the others, he see's balls and plays them and the lads at the end of it just miss out and keep (almost sheepishly) putting their hands up for not seeing it too. Only player on the same wavelengh, footballing brain wise is/ was apparently Lallana?

 

To get the best out of Gaston, and I still firmly believe his best could be one of the best players in the league, we need to spend big on a mobile striker on his wavelength.

 

How did they account for the giving possession away really cheaply?

[Sour Mash]

Goes along with what I heard from a 1st team player at the start of the season over a curry with the family (happily tell you who in person next time I see you) that Gaston is by a mile the most skillful player at the club (and far stronger than people expected him to be) but the only problem seems to be that his footballing brain is too quick for the others, he see's balls and plays them and the lads at the end of it just miss out and keep (almost sheepishly) putting their hands up for not seeing it too. Only player on the same wavelengh, footballing brain wise is/ was apparently Lallana?

 

To get the best out of Gaston, and I still firmly believe his best could be one of the best players in the league, we need to spend big on a mobile striker on his wavelength.

I do agree on Ramirez's quality and that we'd get more out of him with better players and more movement around/ahead of him. But he's not going to get a "Suarez" with us, so he'll need to adapt and adjust.

[Sour Mash]

Exactly this, though say it quietly as the majority will tell you that you are talking crap and better players should be able to play with anyone

He's not exactly being asked to play with a load of LEague 2 cloggers is he. Some pretty intelligent footballers with decent technique in Lambert, Lallana, Rodriques, Davis, Schneiderlin etc. I accept he could do with a bit more pace and movement around and in front of him.

[JackanorySFC]

How did they account for the giving possession away really cheaply?

 

This was early in the season (just before Christmas I think), but I did ask about this and the general consensus is as long as he keeps trying things others can't see him losing it my either taking on an extra man or the odd loose pass is absolutely fine. He is the one they were looking to to take risks. He is/ was held in very high regard internally and they are expecting big things from him. Nice lad too apparently, no big time charlie antics or anything, keen to learn in training, always gives 100% and loves Lallana as a "baller" (footballers love that ****ing word). Again, this is stuff from a few months back.

 

As I say, a quality, mobile striker and attacking midfielders to make runs to support his through balls will get the best out of him.

[Smirking_Saint]

He's not exactly being asked to play with a load of LEague 2 cloggers is he. Some pretty intelligent footballers with decent technique in Lambert, Lallana, Rodriques, Davis, Schneiderlin etc. I accept he could do with a bit more pace and movement around and in front of him.

 

He certainly hasnt been as bad as many have made out but agree that he hasnt lived up to the 12m price tag. That said compared to the fees chucked at his british equivalents then it could turn out to be a steal.

 

He definately needs people ahead of him, its what his game is about. Lambert has started to drop into the holes gaston lives in aswell. But dont doubt the fact that better players can look worse playing with worse players.

 

I renember Ince going mental in training with Wolves as the players around him were nowhere near his level

[JackanorySFC]

I do agree on Ramirez's quality and that we'd get more out of him with better players and more movement around/ahead of him. But he's not going to get a "Suarez" with us, so he'll need to adapt and adjust.

 

But here's me thinking that this "El Zorro" kid is the next Suarez? Agree if in July we havn't got anyone super special in then he will have to change his game a bit, the others need to step up too and improve their movement, personally I think an improved J Rod can become that sort of player.

[Saint Garrett]

Thing is when Gaston gets the ball, he's looking for runs ahead of him from either a striker, or from the other 2 players playing in the '3'. For these to get past Lambert into goalscoring positions they need to be quick. Puncheon, Lallana and to a lesser extent J-Rod, don't particularly make clever runs, and Punch, Lallana and Gaston are all pretty similar players. It almost seems that we're playing with Lambert dropping deep and then the '3' making runs beyond him and Lambert using his great passes to pick them out.

 

Lots of options which need assessing as to how we can get the best out of the players which we have, but its a problem I'm sure Pochettino will relish. Lets hope that between them, they learn how to put in some decent free kicks/corners on a consistent basis.

[Sour Mash]

I renember Ince going mental in training with Wolves as the players around him were nowhere near his level

But that's not really comparable to this situation?

[SuperSAINT]

Thing is when Gaston gets the ball, he's looking for runs ahead of him from either a striker, or from the other 2 players playing in the '3'. For these to get past Lambert into goalscoring positions they need to be quick. Puncheon, Lallana and to a lesser extent J-Rod, don't particularly make clever runs, and Punch, Lallana and Gaston are all pretty similar players. It almost seems that we're playing with Lambert dropping deep and then the '3' making runs beyond him and Lambert using his great passes to pick them out.

 

Lots of options which need assessing as to how we can get the best out of the players which we have, but its a problem I'm sure Pochettino will relish. Lets hope that between them, they learn how to put in some decent free kicks/corners on a consistent basis.

 

Spot on Garrett. I remember watching a YouTube vid of him, and I'm sure about 60% of it was him popping through-balls through to nippy strikers, or midfield runners.

 

If MP doesn't think he'll fit his style, then fair enough if there's a buyer for him. But I hope he stays. I still think he's quality.

 

Hope we can sign some similar quality players to complement him - If we get to the end of the transfer window and he's not the most talented player in the squad any-more, I'll be very happy.

[Smirking_Saint]

But that's not really comparable to this situation?

 

It is relevant, I have also both played with and coached players better and worse then me and it is certainly noticeable when players just cant read what is happening.

 

Bare in mind Gaston will generally be playing on instinct when making those passes. It really depends on where we want to be and what we have to spend. A top 10 team IMO has to involve Gaston

[Sour Mash]

It is relevant, I have also both played with and coached players better and worse then me and it is certainly noticeable when players just cant read what is happening.

 

Bare in mind Gaston will generally be playing on instinct when making those passes. It really depends on where we want to be and what we have to spend. A top 10 team IMO has to involve Gaston

So which of our current forward players are no-where near Ramirez's level?

[Smirking_Saint]

So which of our current forward players are no-where near Ramirez's level?

 

Lambert definately has the brain but isnt mobile enough. Lallana probably is but not seen much from him since his injury.

 

Punch is hit and miss for me, had a good season but dont think he will be consistant at this level.

 

Edit - and I didnt say sny of them were no where near

[Sour Mash]

Lambert definately has the brain but isnt mobile enough. Lallana probably is but not seen much from him since his injury.

 

Punch is hit and miss for me, had a good season but dont think he will be consistant at this level.

 

Edit - and I didnt say sny of them were no where near

 

So your Wolves/Ince comment was irelevant if none of our forward players are "nowhere near his level".

[Saint Charlie]

So your Wolves/Ince comment was irelevant if none of our forward players are "nowhere near his level".

 

For a pleasant change why don't you tell us your opinion?

[Smirking_Saint]

So your Wolves/Ince comment was irelevant if none of our forward players are "nowhere near his level".

 

I know you like an arguement Sour, but that doesnt mean you have to be a pedantic **** now does it ?

 

It was a direct quote from incey, and yes is relevant, it shows how it happens and how it can be frustrating for the player and others.

 

Its not rocket science, but I dont necessarily expect you to understand it either....

[Smirking_Saint]

For a pleasant change why don't you tell us your opinion?

 

Im not entirely sure if he has ever held one has he ? Not that I remember anyway... For one reason or another

[Window Cleaner]

My sources (one ex club and another just a regular supporter without being ITK) reckon we are looking at bringing in Oscar Cardozo from Benfica. Having looked him up, it could be plausible...he's fallen out with the Benfica manager and the manager has said either the player goes or he goes. Decent goal scoring record. 6 foot four, 30 so a little on the old side, but so is SRL and he's playing his best football at 30. Transfermarkt values him at £15.5m but at 30 years old and with Benfica wanting to get rid, maybe we could get him for less. Lots of agent talk about him going here there and everywhere but you'd expect that given his situation-if his agent is talking about Juventus, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City all interested in signing him then you know he's trying to drive up the price so he gets a nice pay day. The reality is, Benfica want rid and will probably sell him at a cut price. One of the more realistic rumours ive heard anyway so thought I would share.

 

Fenerbahce are only offering them 12 million euros so i expect Benfica would be quite pleased if we offered them 18 million € then.

[goneawol]

Dejan Lovren...

 

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/serie-a/esclusiva-tmw-lione-per-lovren-avanza-il-southampton-le-ultime-454856&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsouthampton%2Blovren%26lr%3D%26cr%3DcountryIT%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D899%26tbs%3Dqdr:d,ctr:countryIT

[Saint Charlie]

Dejan Lovren...

 

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/serie-a/esclusiva-tmw-lione-per-lovren-avanza-il-southampton-le-ultime-454856&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsouthampton%2Blovren%26lr%3D%26cr%3DcountryIT%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D899%26tbs%3Dqdr:d,ctr:countryIT

 

This one fits our usual style. 23 with 17 Croatia caps, 6'2 CB. Sounds promising.

[Window Cleaner]

This one fits our usual style. 23 with 17 Croatia caps, 6'2 CB. Sounds promising.

 

Aulas and Cortese haggling over a player sale...should get done at about the turn of the next century then.With a bit of luck he should be available for his first sending off in a Saints shirt before retirement age...won't happen.

[Saint Charlie]

Aulas and Cortese haggling over a player sale...should get done at about the turn of the next century then.

 

Thats ok, Hooiveld has a few years left in him at this level.

[Window Cleaner]

Thats ok, Hooiveld has a few years left in him at this level.

 

Jos is a better player probably. Anyway if you're looking at defenders from Lyon Umtiti is the kiddy you want, good at CB and very very comfortable at LB as well. Only 19

[Sour Mash]

For a pleasant change why don't you tell us your opinion?

I think most of our players aren't a million miles away from Ramirez in quality. Yes Ramirez is probably a touch better than the rest, but there isn't such a gulf that it should significantly affect his performances in a detrimental way. As I stated in post 1797 I think he would benefit more from a change in system rather than there being a huge issue in terms of quality around him. Time will tell if a) MP wants to build the side around him to his strengths; b) He is able to remain fit and in good shape to get plenty of regular game time under his belt.

[Olallana]

Lovren has been linked to Liverpool (but what player hasn´t), Chelsea and some other teams, including us in january or was it last summer?

 

Really good player, surprised to see that he only played 18 games in Ligue 1 this year according to transfermarkt and no mentioned injuries....

Would take him in a heartbeat!

[Window Cleaner]

Lovren has been linked to Liverpool (but what player hasn´t), Chelsea and some other teams, including us in january or was it last summer?

 

Really good player, surprised to see that he only played 18 games in Ligue 1 this year according to transfermarkt and no mentioned injuries....

Would take him in a heartbeat!

 

 

He isn't exceptionally good and he gets sent off a lot. Has no control over his temper if I recall correctly.

[MOSaint]

Lovren can also play at RB.

[Olallana]

I think most of our players aren't a million miles away from Ramirez in quality. Yes Ramirez is probably a touch better than the rest, but there isn't such a gulf that it should significantly affect his performances in a detrimental way. As I stated in post 1797 I think he would benefit more from a change in system rather than there being a huge issue in terms of quality around him. Time will tell if a) MP wants to build the side around him to his strengths; b) He is able to remain fit and in good shape to get plenty of regular game time under his belt.

 

Gaston fits our system without problem, that´s not the issue IMO.

And why he loses control of the ball at midfield at times is very much because his teammates dont make runs to give him the right option to pass the ball, either on a teammates feets or in behind the defenders. And you will always have some loss of the ball with this kind of player, high risk but when it works it gives you also high reward.

 

Anyone thinking he doesn´t fit the system should go to Saints player and watch extended highlights against Everton at home....

[Sour Mash]

Gaston fits our system without problem, that´s not the issue IMO.

And why he loses control of the ball at midfield at times is very much because his teammates dont make runs to give him the right option to pass the ball, either on a teammates feets or in behind the defenders. And you will always have some loss of the ball with this kind of player, high risk but when it works it gives you also high reward.

 

Anyone thinking he doesn´t fit the system should go to Saints player and watch extended highlights against Everton at home....

No because as already stated on this thread, Lambert drops deep or out-wide, so there is often not striker, or a striker with pace and movement playing in-front of him. He doesn't fit the system if he's sat on the bench.

[Saint Charlie]

No because as already stated on this thread, Lambert drops deep or out-wide, so there is often not striker, or a striker with pace and movement playing in-front of him. He doesn't fit the system if he's sat on the bench.

 

Part of the problem is that the CBs are not good 1v1 so we have added Davis into the mix who doesnt give as much going forward as Gaston but allows a better team shape to protect the CBs. Davis is a solid, tidy player but not someone that opposition defences would be worried about - perhaps an indication of why we struggled to score towards the end of the season. Often when GR was playing it was out wide which is not his best role, and not where he is used for Uruguay.

 

If we had a better player on the right who could really take the game to the opposition and then a more mobile striker, Ramirez would be perfect as the advanced CM of the three.

[Window Cleaner]

Part of the problem is that the CBs are not good 1v1 so we have added Davis into the mix who doesnt give as much going forward as Gaston but allows a better team shape to protect the CBs. Davis is a solid, tidy player but not someone that opposition defences would be worried about - perhaps an indication of why we struggled to score towards the end of the season. Often when GR was playing it was out wide which is not his best role, and not where he is used for Uruguay.

 

If we had a better player on the right who could really take the game to the opposition and then a more mobile striker, Ramirez would be perfect as the advanced CM of the three.

 

no Ramirez likes to play as the furthest back of the 3 actually. He likes to play deep and either burst forward or play the ball forward.Deep, like centre circle, he can see the whole pattern like a quarterback. We didn't know how to use him and wasted his energy trying to turn him into some sort of wide man. Lallana needs to be given just a back up role because Lallana and Gaston in the same side will never work.

[Window Cleaner]

so then are we still definitely signing someone tomorrow ? Don't mean future Yeovil players for the academy.

[Sour Mash]

Part of the problem is that the CBs are not good 1v1 so we have added Davis into the mix who doesnt give as much going forward as Gaston but allows a better team shape to protect the CBs. Davis is a solid, tidy player but not someone that opposition defences would be worried about - perhaps an indication of why we struggled to score towards the end of the season. Often when GR was playing it was out wide which is not his best role, and not where he is used for Uruguay.

 

If we had a better player on the right who could really take the game to the opposition and then a more mobile striker, Ramirez would be perfect as the advanced CM of the three.

I'm not sure how the use of Davis compared instead of Ramirez is related directly to the quality of our CBs, but yes it has been done to tighten us up overall which has worked you could argue. But where does that leave Ramirez if Pochettino feels Davis is better in that role? If we are to keep Ramirez I'd rather we built the team around him and started him in the "hole" or you may as well sell him and invest that money elsewhere.

[Smirking_Saint]

I'm not sure how the use of Davis compared instead of Ramirez is related directly to the quality of our CBs, but yes it has been done to tighten us up overall which has worked you could argue. But where does that leave Ramirez if Pochettino feels Davis is better in that role? If we are to keep Ramirez I'd rather we built the team around him and started him in the "hole" or you may as well sell him and invest that money elsewhere.

 

This.... I agree with

 

You either use the boy properly or you need to reinvest in players that fit the system you want to play. FWIW as seen against everton he doesnt seem scared to get stuck in a play the pressing game either

[Olallana]

About the system MP wants to play though I think we really only seen the defensive side of it with the pressure and for some extent regarding the attacking that we have retained a lot of possession but when you look back at the most succesful season at Espanyol they played mostly 4-2-3-1 as we do.

But they played with different type of wingers. Most used was Callejon and Luis Garcia (not the Liverpool one) and they are the kind of pacey wingers that Gaston would benefit a lot from.

Cutting in behind the defense, between CB and Full backs preferably.

 

Neither Lallana or Puncheon is that kind of player, only JRod in some extent imo.

 

It´s all about pace and that´s what we need to add to the squad.

[Window Cleaner]

This.... I agree with

 

You either use the boy properly or you need to reinvest in players that fit the system you want to play. FWIW as seen against everton he doesnt seem scared to get stuck in a play the pressing game either

 

Tackles pretty well actually, or did the other day anyway.

[JoeShmoe]

Liverpool dudes got a scout report on Lovren

 

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/03/lfc-scout-report-dejan-lovren-cb/

[Saint Garrett]

Marquinos from Roma would be a decent signing I reckon.

[pangy]

I have said it before,Gaston reminds me of Makoun when he was at Villa,he was a very very good player but the players around him didn't have or share the same vision and creativity he did and effectively made him look rubbish, if we got in a striker that would hang on the last defender and had the pace to beat a man you would see a different player,how can he create chances when our lone striker is coming deep or out wide !

[Saint Stimp]

Dejan Lovren would be a massive signing.