Adkins breaks silence....sort of.

[Stepgar]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2304760/Reading-v-Southampton-Nigel-Adkins-says-managers-shouldnt-poach-jobs-faces-team.html

 

Basically says that a job should be available before someone is given the job.

Edited 6 April, 2013 by Stepgar

[Wade Garrett]

He is probably the only manager in the game that thinks like that. Sacking is an occupational hazard for them.

[Stepgar]

Totally agree, e is an honourable man but ths is a cut throat business.

[pap]

Mind games.

[georgeweahscousin]

'There are two types of managers in football. Those who have just been sacked, and those who are about to be" - Howard Wilkinson.

 

Sad but true.

[sotonist]

Mind games.

Mo's "Jason Roberts can be as good as Drogba" is running a bit late.

[Sour Mash]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2304760/Reading-v-Southampton-Nigel-Adkins-says-managers-shouldnt-poach-jobs-faces-team.html

 

Basically says that a job should be available before someone is given the job.

He's completely right. Even in the cut throat world of modern football it's pretty rare to find out that someone has been in place to take your job for at least a few weeks, watching your side etc, all without you knowing anything about it.

[Coastal Saint]

He's completely right. Even in the cut throat world of modern football it's pretty rare to find out that someone has been in place to take your job for at least a few weeks, watching your side etc, all without you knowing anything about it.

 

Happens all the time. Had this happen to me a few years ago. Doesn't make it right or nice but a fact.

[lordswoodsaints]

Nice fella but out of touch with reality,managers get moved on all the time it's an occupational hazard.

It's a bit rich moaning about loyalty etc etc when he had to make similar decisions with players,moving them on to be replaced by other players that are waiting in the wings.

Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me,if I was a reading fan I would be a bit ****ed off with him for not concentrating on his new,very difficult task of keeping them in the prem.

[Sour Mash]

Happens all the time. Had this happen to me a few years ago. Doesn't make it right or nice but a fact.

No it doesn't. Or can you give me loads of examples? And even if it does happen 'all the time' doesn't make it right - you couldn't blame him for being p*****d off.

[VectisSaint]

No it doesn't. Or can you give me loads of examples? And even if it does happen 'all the time' doesn't make it right - you couldn't blame him for being p*****d off.

 

Ask Stuart Gray, WGS was watching from the stands, not many complained then. In football **** happens, life goes on.

[Crowds]

'There are two types of managers in football. Those who have just been sacked, and those who are about to be" - Howard Wilkinson.

 

Sad but true.

 

I find this quote nice and simple 'in life your either the mug, or the c&nt' crude but its true...

[Sour Mash]

Ask Stuart Gray, WGS was watching from the stands, not many complained then. In football **** happens, life goes on.

I'm not sure what your point is? Do you understand the point NA is making? Who has suggested that life doesn't go on?

[pap]

No it doesn't. Or can you give me loads of examples? And even if it does happen 'all the time' doesn't make it right - you couldn't blame him for being p*****d off.

 

Welcome to the cut-throat world of contract-based employment. Cuts both ways.

 

I have a similar arrangement with my clients. They can replace me at any time, provided they pay out a percentage of my remaining contract regardless.

 

I've also seen people replaced with others very quickly ( one gone Fri, one in on Mon ), particularly contractors. I've also seen situations where a contractor wasn't necessarily leaving by choice.

 

Given that most of footy runs on fixed-term contracts, rather than permanent deals - surprised this doesn't happen more often.

[Sour Mash]

I find this quote nice and simple 'in life your either the mug, or the c&nt' crude but its true...

No it's not.

[Sour Mash]

Welcome to the cut-throat world of contract-based employment. Cuts both ways.

 

I have a similar arrangement with my clients. They can replace me at any time, provided they pay out a percentage of my remaining contract regardless.

 

I've also seen people replaced with others very quickly ( one gone Fri, one in on Mon ), particularly contractors. I've also seen situations where a contractor wasn't necessarily leaving by choice.

 

Given that most of footy runs on fixed-term contracts, rather than permanent deals - surprised this doesn't happen more often.

So can you give me loads of examples of this happening in 'footy'?

[FreemantleSaint]

It was harsh treatment but it was SFC's best interests to have the next manager lined up before sacking Adkins. I would much rather we work this way than do what Wolves did last year in sacking McCarthy, floundering around for a few weeks being rejected by numerous managerial targets and then being cornered into appointing his totally inexperienced assistant.

[lordswoodsaints]

I'm also sure the owners of Reading had Adkins in mind when they sacked Brian McDermott.

[trousers]

So can you give me loads of examples of this happening in 'footy'?

 

No he can't....because 'footy' has typically avoided operating like a normal business for over a hundred years.

 

The fact that Cortese is trying to run Southampton FC like a well run business (e.g. Having a management continuity plan in place) should be hailed as a good thing rather than a bad thing.

 

Of course, with 'footy', sentiment usually trumps sensible business practices.

[pap]

So can you give me loads of examples of this happening in 'footy'?

 

Not loads of managerial examples, no - but people were making exactly the same noises about Pardew replacing Chris Hughton at Newcastle.

 

Anyway, it's not really the point. This stuff happens in business. Football is a business. Why wouldn't it happen in football?

[pap]

Have you all finished quoting 'footy' yet?

[Sheaf Saint]

Daily Mail in sensationalising football manager's quote shocker.

 

If you read the quote, all he actually says is "‘I think you should be respectful, You have to be ruthless as a manager when it comes to picking teams. If you’re not winning, you won’t be in a job. That’s where the ruthlessness comes from".

 

It was clear from his post-match interview after the Coventry game at the end of last season that he knew Cortese was looking to replace him. He could have looked for another job or walked in the summer, but he stuck around and waited to be sacked instead.

[Sour Mash]

I'm also sure the owners of Reading had Adkins in mind when they sacked Brian McDermott.

It would appear that wasn't really the case, plus thats not Adkins point is it.

[Sour Mash]

Not loads of managerial examples, no

Cheers, thanks for confirming.

[trousers]

Cheers, thanks for confirming.

 

Sounds like we all agree that it's a good thing that Saints are trying to operate differently to most 'footy' clubs... The fact that there aren't (m)any other examples highlights that Saints are leaders rather than followers in this field.

[Sour Mash]

No he can't....because 'footy' has typically avoided operating like a normal business for over a hundred years.

 

The fact that Cortese is trying to run Southampton FC like a well run business (e.g. Having a management continuity plan in place) should be hailed as a good thing rather than a bad thing.

 

Of course, with 'footy', sentiment usually trumps sensible business practices.

I work in a contracting environment/industry. If I'd been on a project for over 2 years, delivering successfully, I would be p****d off to find out that someone was reviewing my work and was in effect sat at my desk when I walked in on a Monday morning, ready to take over, without me being given a minute's notice - anyone would feel the same & thats all Adkins is saying here. Anyway, I'm off to Reading for a nice bit of footy.

[trousers]

I work in a contracting environment/industry. If I'd been on a project for over 2 years, delivering successfully, I would be p****d off to find out that someone was reviewing my work and was in effect sat at my desk when I walked in on a Monday morning, ready to take over, without me being given a minute's notice - anyone would feel the same & thats all Adkins is saying here. Anyway, I'm off to Reading for a nice bit of footy.

 

Yep, agree, I don't think anyone is saying that having a management continuity plan is in any way designed to be "nice" to the outgoing manager. I'd be peeved too but the system wouldn't work if everyone was happy about it.

[trousers]

P.s. COYR!!!

[Saint_clark]

I can't see a quote from Adkins that tallies with what's in the OP to be honest. He says about being respectful, but that there is ruthlessness when it comes to managers in football...now we all agree that Cortese hasn't shown anywhere near enough respect for what he did, but I think it's fair to say Pochettino has shown nothing but respect for his predecessor.

[Saint Without a Halo]

He's completely right. Even in the cut throat world of modern football it's pretty rare to find out that someone has been in place to take your job for at least a few weeks, watching your side etc, all without you knowing anything about it.

 

Your right! But unfortunately it happens in business and companies all the time! Once the decision to replace someone is made the search for a replacement begins including headhunters and interviews, usually whilst the incumbent continues in place and is unaware. This is certainly the case in the financial sector where Cortese comes from! The logic being it could take time to get a replacement and even free him up from his job meantime better to have the incumbent in place keeping the shop going than an interim manger!

[Turkish]

Daily Mail in sensationalising football manager's quote shocker.

 

If you read the quote, all he actually says is "‘I think you should be respectful, You have to be ruthless as a manager when it comes to picking teams. If you’re not winning, you won’t be in a job. That’s where the ruthlessness comes from".

 

It was clear from his post-match interview after the Coventry game at the end of last season that he knew Cortese was looking to replace him. He could have looked for another job or walked in the summer, but he stuck around and waited to be sacked instead.

 

when all avenues of defending the club for treating the popular ex manager like sh*t have failed we can always put our fingers in our ears and blame the daily mail. Excellent work.

[trousers]

Your right! But unfortunately it happens in business and companies all the time! Once the decision to replace someone is made the search for a replacement begins including headhunters and interviews, usually whilst the incumbent continues in place and is unaware. This is certainly the case in the financial sector where Cortese comes from! The logic being it could take time to get a replacement and even free him up from his job meantime better to have the incumbent in place keeping the shop going than an interim manger!

 

All of which was highlighted by the gap between Pardew getting the chop and Adkins taking over

[pap]

Cheers, thanks for confirming.

 

Which means what, exactly?

 

I think your imagined grievance only really works if there's a set of rules that all football clubs play by when hiring and firing managers, which there isn't.

 

If you were really that incensed, you'd be parking costs bloke in the Echo.

 

Have fun at Reading watching that football team you seem to have lost all respect for.

[norwaysaint]

Looks like everybody is in agreement but discussing different sides of it. It's true that this sort of thing happens way too often, it's true that it's disrespectful and underhand. It's the business equivalent of seeing another woman for a while before you leave your wife. The fact that it happens doesn't make it any less immoral and wrong. I'm happy with MP being manager, I'm not proud of how he was appointed.

[pap]

Looks like everybody is in agreement but discussing different sides of it. It's true that this sort of thing happens way too often, it's true that it's disrespectful and underhand. It's the business equivalent of seeing another woman for a while before you leave your wife. The fact that it happens doesn't make it any less immoral and wrong. I'm happy with MP being manager, I'm not proud of how he was appointed.

 

It's just pragmatism, norway.

 

Look at the way that other clubs have scrambled, probably too late, for new managers after sacking them in a panic.

 

It's not nice, but NA will get a pay off and came out of Southampton with a better rep than when he started. I'm a bit baffled as to why he's chosen to cash that rep in at Reading, but I don't know as much as he does.

[Saint Martini]

This article is about thescouting of managers. A very sensible and well informed article and to me it seems very clear that Cortese has scouted several managers before he got his man. Perhaps this is why Adkins didn't get replaced at the start of the season, Cortese was not satisfied with the candidates on his list. For me Adkins can feel hard done by because of the timing but in right now it is becoming more and more apparent that Adkins wasn't getting the most out of several players and as Kelvin Davis said in the interview the other day the results (and quality of play) so far have proven Cortese right to a certain degree.

[Frank's cousin]

Looks like everybody is in agreement but discussing different sides of it. It's true that this sort of thing happens way too often, it's true that it's disrespectful and underhand. It's the business equivalent of seeing another woman for a while before you leave your wife. The fact that it happens doesn't make it any less immoral and wrong. I'm happy with MP being manager, I'm not proud of how he was appointed.

 

Thing is Norway, fans are two faced on most every issue - Before anyone makes a moral judgement on the way someone is treated, you have to remove performance/history or what is deserved etc out of the equation. In effect if you want to make a moral judgement about the way he was replaced, you have to say would you come to the same moral conclusion had it been Steve Wrigley, or the a manager we hated and were glad to see the back of? - Sorry, but despite what some now say, I believe the majority of the 'moral outrage' (some with an almost dailymailesque lack of self awareness/diana effect collective 'grief') has been driven by the fact what Nige has achieved, he's a nice guy and some who simply dont like Cortese rather than any genuine moral or ethical POV. That may make me a complete cynical barstard in some folks eyes, but I suspect its nearer the truth than the football fans suddenly becoming all holier than thou and integrity transplant.... Branfoot and the way fans behaved in getting him replaced is perhaps the best example - he was a ****e manager, but was still a person, yet we want clubs to be all moral when its usits us, yet wield a ruthless axe...when it suits us....But where would football be without the hypocracy?

[pap]

Thing is Norway' date=' fans are two faced on most every issue - Before anyone makes a moral judgement on the way someone is treated, you have to remove performance/history or what is deserved etc out of the equation. In effect if you want to make a moral judgement about the way he was replaced, you have to say would you come to the same moral conclusion had it been Steve Wrigley, or the a manager we hated and were glad to see the back of? - Sorry, but despite what some now say, I believe the majority of the 'moral outrage' (some with an almost dailymailesque lack of self awareness/diana effect collective 'grief') has been driven by the fact what Nige has achieved, he's a nice guy and some who simply dont like Cortese rather than any genuine moral or ethical POV. That may make me a complete cynical barstard in some folks eyes, but I suspect its nearer the truth than the football fans suddenly becoming all holier than thou and integrity transplant.... Branfoot and the way fans behaved in getting him replaced is perhaps the best example - he was a ****e manager, but was still a person, yet we want clubs to be all moral when its usits us, yet wield a ruthless axe...when it suits us....But where would football be without the hypocracy? [/quote']

 

Good post, Frank. FWIW, I think people are coming around to the decision now - but you're right, shoe would be on the other foot if a manager had been ousted by fan pressure.

[Turkish]

Thing is Norway' date=' fans are two faced on most every issue - Before anyone makes a moral judgement on the way someone is treated, you have to remove performance/history or what is deserved etc out of the equation. In effect if you want to make a moral judgement about the way he was replaced, you have to say would you come to the same moral conclusion had it been Steve Wrigley, or the a manager we hated and were glad to see the back of? - Sorry, but despite what some now say, I believe the majority of the 'moral outrage' (some with an almost dailymailesque lack of self awareness/diana effect collective 'grief') has been driven by the fact what Nige has achieved, he's a nice guy and some who simply dont like Cortese rather than any genuine moral or ethical POV. That may make me a complete cynical barstard in some folks eyes, but I suspect its nearer the truth than the football fans suddenly becoming all holier than thou and integrity transplant.... Branfoot and the way fans behaved in getting him replaced is perhaps the best example - he was a ****e manager, but was still a person, yet we want clubs to be all moral when its usits us, yet wield a ruthless axe...when it suits us....But where would football be without the hypocracy? [/quote']

 

As usual Frank you spectacularly miss the point. We are often told football is a results (not shots on goal) driven business. Had Adkins been sacked in November then although many of us would have felt sorry for him , few would have been surprised. The fact was he was sacked when performances and results had improved and he seemed to have turned the corner. To sack a popular manager who was performing well is quite different to sacking a manager ala Gray and Wigley who most fans didn't think should have been in the job in the first place and when coupled with their spectacularly bad performance results wise, it is far, far different to sacking a popular, successful manager when he is performing. It was right to sack Gray and Wigley based on results. Was it right to sack Adkins based on the same? Possibly yes is November, in January, I'm not so sure.

[pap]

As usual Frank you spectacularly miss the point. We are often told football is a results (not shots on goal) driven business. Had Adkins been sacked in November then although many of us would have felt sorry for him , few would have been surprised. The fact was he was sacked when performances and results had improved and he seemed to have turned the corner. To sack a popular manager who was performing well is quite different to sacking a manager ala Gray and Wigley who most fans didn't think should have been in the job in the first place and when coupled with their spectacularly bad performance results wise, it is far, far different to sacking a popular, successful manager when he is performing. It was right to sack Gray and Wigley based on results. Was it right to sack Adkins based on the same? Possibly yes is November, in January, I'm not so sure.

 

The decision to replace Adkins with Poch was made in November, wasn't it?

[Secret Site Agent]

Happens all the time. Had this happen to me a few years ago. Doesn't make it right or nice but a fact.

 

He's completely right. Even in the cut throat world of modern football it's pretty rare to find out that someone has been in place to take your job for at least a few weeks, watching your side etc, all without you knowing anything about it.

 

ANd it's happened to me, and also I've been lined up for soemone elses job. It's business I'm afraid, it's cheap, low down, ungentlemanly and ****ttty, but that's business for you.

[lordswoodsaints]

Can we all get over the Adkins love in now?

It's getting a bit sickening.

[Frank's cousin]

As usual Frank you spectacularly miss the point. We are often told football is a results (not shots on goal) driven business. Had Adkins been sacked in November then although many of us would have felt sorry for him , few would have been surprised. The fact was he was sacked when performances and results had improved and he seemed to have turned the corner. To sack a popular manager who was performing well is quite different to sacking a manager ala Gray and Wigley who most fans didn't think should have been in the job in the first place and when coupled with their spectacularly bad performance results wise, it is far, far different to sacking a popular, successful manager when he is performing. It was right to sack Gray and Wigley based on results. Was it right to sack Adkins based on the same? Possibly yes is November, in January, I'm not so sure.

 

As usual Turks you spectacularly mist the point. Its clear as day that the decsion to replace adkins was one made before the season started, with Cortese making a decision that Nigel was brought in to do one thing and someone else would come in to take us further - he could not get who he wanted so Nige was given a stay of execution - not only that, your fail is even more spectacular since the whole point is about how if making a moral judgement on the clubs behaviour, then whether a manager is performing well or not, is liked or not, is completely irrelevent... .... but you have ignored/missed this completely - The point I was making was about the blatent hypocracy shown by fans - some so pious in their moral outrage as it suits, yet happy for clubs to behave in exactly the same way when it they believe the manager is no good and not popular... you obviously are back in your failing to grasp a simple point mode... please try harder darling.

[Dalek2003]

Can we all get over the Adkins love in now?

It's getting a bit sickening.

 

Like in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy,

 

Goodbye (Nigel) and thanks for all the fish.

[pap]

As usual Turks you spectacularly mist the point. Its clear as day that the decsion to replace adkins was one made before the season started' date=' with Cortese making a decision that Nigel was brought in to do one thing and someone else would come in to take us further - he could not get who he wanted so Nige was given a stay of execution - not only that, your fail is even more spectacular since the whole point is about how if making a moral judgement on the clubs behaviour, then whether a manager is performing well or not, is liked or not, is completely irrelevent... .... but you have ignored/missed this completely - The point I was making was about the blatent hypocracy shown by fans - some so pious in their moral outrage as it suits, yet happy for clubs to behave in exactly the same way when it they believe the manager is no good and not popular... you obviously are back in your failing to grasp a simple point mode... please try harder darling.[/quote']

 

Is this intentional? I rather like it if so.

[scotty]

I'm also sure the owners of Reading had Adkins in mind when they sacked Brian McDermott.

 

Adkins wasn't the first choice, as I recall it. They were turned down by their preferred candidate, and NA was hired only after that had happened.