What Are You Watching..?

[The Cat]

Haha, in that case I shall definitely get involved. I want to play the games, which are also meant to be fantastic, but I'm not sure which order to do it in.

 

I've played the first 'series' of games. They don't relate much to the TV show - I believe they are a mix of that and the comics. Really enjoyed the game. It's very story-led, more so than any other game I have played and there's times when you wonder when you'll have to do things next. Play the game while watching the show if you want, there's no spoilers in either.

[pap]

I've played the first 'series' of games. They don't relate much to the TV show - I believe they are a mix of that and the comics. Really enjoyed the game. It's very story-led, more so than any other game I have played and there's times when you wonder when you'll have to do things next. Play the game while watching the show if you want, there's no spoilers in either.

 

To speak further on this, there are two main Walking Dead universes, as far as I know; TV and Comics. The TV show is set in a different universe to the comic. It has many of the same characters, but they don't always go the same way as they did in the Comics, in terms of character development or longevity. The games use the comic art style, but apart from a couple of cameos, feature completely different characters anyway (e.g. I think Glen turns up in S1 of the games).

 

The games are excellent. Not only are they well worth your time, but they also represent (drum roll) a "brand new genre". They share a bit of DNA with old school adventure games, but the focus is really on dialogue, choice and consequence rather than finding the answer to some obscure puzzle. No-one else has taken that to the level that Telltale has.

 

Telltale also make a Game of Thrones series, which is the only good GoT game that exists. Also, The Wolf Among Us is ace too.

[The Cat]

The only other game I've played which includes choices and consequences is LA Noire so it could be seen as comparable in that respect. There's not as much Walker slaying as you may expect but when the action does ramp up it does it in a way that makes it nervy and exciting.

 

I've read some of the comics but not in any order. Should really get around to that at some point.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

To speak further on this, there are two main Walking Dead universes, as far as I know; TV and Comics. The TV show is set in a different universe to the comic. It has many of the same characters, but they don't always go the same way as they did in the Comics, in terms of character development or longevity. The games use the comic art style, but apart from a couple of cameos, feature completely different characters anyway (e.g. I think Glen turns up in S1 of the games).

 

The games are excellent. Not only are they well worth your time, but they also represent (drum roll) a "brand new genre". They share a bit of DNA with old school adventure games, but the focus is really on dialogue, choice and consequence rather than finding the answer to some obscure puzzle. No-one else has taken that to the level that Telltale has.

 

Telltale also make a Game of Thrones series, which is the only good GoT game that exists. Also, The Wolf Among Us is ace too.

 

The only other game I've played which includes choices and consequences is LA Noire so it could be seen as comparable in that respect. There's not as much Walker slaying as you may expect but when the action does ramp up it does it in a way that makes it nervy and exciting.

 

I've read some of the comics but not in any order. Should really get around to that at some point.

 

Thanks for this gents, appreciated.

 

Sounds like the games will suit me, I'm a fan of more narrative driven games. I really wish some quality film/tv or print writers would get involved with games. Be the soppy git I am, I want some touching stories, he'll I want a game that will make me cry.

 

Telltale are great, I'd love to meet some of the folks there, heck maybe even work with them one day. Really looking forward to see what they do on their future projects working on their own IP. Anyways, I'll stop before I totally hijack the to thread with games chat.

 

I'll be sure to crack on with both.

[TheCholulaKid]

Thanks for this gents, appreciated.

 

Sounds like the games will suit me, I'm a fan of more narrative driven games. I really wish some quality film/tv or print writers would get involved with games. Be the soppy git I am, I want some touching stories, he'll I want a game that will make me cry.

 

Telltale are great, I'd love to meet some of the folks there, heck maybe even work with them one day. Really looking forward to see what they do on their future projects working on their own IP. Anyways, I'll stop before I totally hijack the to thread with games chat.

 

I'll be sure to crack on with both.

 

If you are of an Xbox bent and have an Gold membership then you can currently get both Walking Dead games for £16 - might invest myself.

 

I enjoyed the TV show but found the David Morrissey character in season 3 a bit too ludicrous - haven't watched season 4 yet but maybe I should get back into it.

[pap]

If you are of an Xbox bent and have an Gold membership then you can currently get both Walking Dead games for £16 - might invest myself.

 

I enjoyed the TV show but found the David Morrissey character in season 3 a bit too ludicrous - haven't watched season 4 yet but maybe I should get back into it.

His counterpart in the comics is even worse. What is it you find ludicrous about him? His behaviour may seem extreme for us, but it's nowt compared to some of the crap real life humans have pulled over the centuries. Men doing bad things in the name of what they believe is good? That's most dictators, isn't it? That is what he is supposed to be.

 

The whole point of the Walking Dead is not the zombies, it's how humans deal with life outside of consumerist and easy society.

[hypochondriac]

His counterpart in the comics is even worse. What is it you find ludicrous about him? His behaviour may seem extreme for us, but it's nowt compared to some of the crap real life humans have pulled over the centuries. Men doing bad things in the name of what they believe is good? That's most dictators, isn't it? That is what he is supposed to be.

 

The whole point of the Walking Dead is not the zombies, it's how humans deal with life outside of consumerist and easy society.

 

My main problem with the walking dead tv show is that there is only so many times they can talk about misery and kill zombies before it starts to get tedious. That particular character you mention was also pretty dumb imo because the acting wasn't great and he was too cartoony to really be hated. When you look at the fantastic portrayal of some of the bad guys on TV like John lithgow (full of nuance, interesting back story etc.) it makes it even worse. The dialogue is also maddeningly dumb and they always have to spell out everything and never trust the audience to figure it out for themselves.

 

So yeah the walking dead is a fun show but it could have been so much more and it never will be.

[pap]

My main problem with the walking dead tv show is that there is only so many times they can talk about misery and kill zombies before it starts to get tedious. That particular character you mention was also pretty dumb imo because the acting wasn't great and he was too cartoony to really be hated. When you look at the fantastic portrayal of some of the bad guys on TV like John lithgow (full of nuance, interesting back story etc.) it makes it even worse. The dialogue is also maddeningly dumb and they always have to spell out everything and never trust the audience to figure it out for themselves.

 

So yeah the walking dead is a fun show but it could have been so much more and it never will be.

Over-exposition has been with us for decades, hypo. Remember the A-Team, where after any explosion or crash, the camera would pan back to a bunch of bad guys dusting themselves off? I admire stuff like Breaking Bad for weaving such a tight script full of Easter eggs and stuff built for rewatch, but they're not having to simulate a zombie apocalypse every week.

 

Thought Morrissey did a nuanced job on what was a very extreme character. He does far worse harm to Michonne in the comic book universe; the retribution was similarly fierce. His arc works well enough for me in both stories. Were his final plans mental and unhinged? Damn right, but from his perspective, they'd taken everything he'd built, everything he'd hoped for and maimed him in the process. He was never that smart to begin with; his big ideas were that you'd stay on top by eliminating anyone that stood in his way and provoking the fear of the other with his own people. A demagogue on a small scale with an axe to grind.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Please forgive me for banging on about 'Wolf Hall' yet again, but each passing episode somehow sets a new standard in just how historical drama should be handled. I say without hyperbole that I think in all its long history 'Wolf Hall' may well be BBC Drama's finest achievement - a perfect Tudor jewel of a series that I can't even imagine how you'd possibly improve.

 

In Episode five; 'Crows' we saw two scenes where the tension was absolutely electric. In the first King Henry (Damian Lewis) suffered a fall while out jousting and it was feared that he had died - and the kings death might well have meant Cromwell's demise too had Queen Anne taken the crown. So Cromwell's sense of barely concealed panic, and his utter relief when Henry survived, were both palpable. Later Henry furiously rips into Cromwell in a fit of temper that was volcanic in its intensity ... all I can say is that the interplay between these two fine actors has to be seen to be believed.

 

 

Just one more episode to go now and I know I shall miss this wonderful series as terribly as I know that it will end terribly for Ann Boleyn. I understand that Hilary Mantel is currently writing another novel that will bring Cromwell's story to its own (equally bloody) conclusion - it seems to me that the BBC should move 'heaven and earth' if need be to ensure that cast and crew are reunited to bring this story as well to our screens.

[View From The Top]

Wolf Hall has been some of the finest TV I've ever seen.

[Bearsy]

I know that it will end terribly for Ann Boleyn.

 

no spoilers pls

[Twiggy]

Anybody been watching Broadchurch?

[Jonnyboy]

Am I the only one who didn't realise Saul Goodman comes from "It's all good, Man? "

[Bearsy]

Yeah, I wondered if that was Always The Case or if it Only Just Occurred To Them. I have watched this show now, and as usual I am finding Dubai Phil is way off base Saul is not useless, incompetent idiot like Phil said. He is smart + conniving & is only really hindered by Bad Luck & the Madness of Others

[Tokyo-Saint]

I know how he feels bear

[Bobbyboy]

Today I am mostly watching the Landscape Channel.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Indulge me just more time people - my beloved Wolf Hall is finished and I must mourn for it.

 

Sometimes you look back on the past and comprehend how great something truly was only via the perspective of 20/20 hindsight. On other occasions something you instantly fall in love with, you later come to realise was not really all that good afterall. I can't believe that Wolf Hall falls into either category because its greatness is obvious now and surely the mere passage of time can never lessen its appeal. Like all true works of art I think it is destined to transcend time and if I were to predict that people as yet unborn will still be watching and enjoying it when we are all long gone I hope I'm not going too far.

 

This 'off the scale' series ended last night, as it had to, with the execution of Anne Boleyn. What can I say about it ... well I can't do it justice, but if I just said that I've seldom (if ever) seen television drama that was anything like as extraordinarily intense an experience to watch as this was then that will have to do.

In a way it was almost like you were standing there alongside Cromwell in front of that scaffold watching this horrible Human tragedy unfold. And when Cromwell gripped his son's arm at the crucial moment, it was almost like he was gripping you too. That is the purpose of all good drama I suppose - to draw you into its own internal world and make you its captive.

 

There's only one possible way to fill this Wolf Hall sized void in my life that has now opened up ... I'll have to get hold of the books.

 

[Bearsy]

ended last night, with the execution of Anne Boleyn

 

:mcinnes: FFS Charlie! What did I just say! Worst spoiler ever!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

:mcinnes: FFS Charlie! What did I just say! Worst spoiler ever!

 

My apologies, but while I'm at it I might as well spoil the next series for you too. Remember my ursine friend - divorced, beheaded, died. Divorced, beheaded ... survived!

 

So that's a happy ending for one fortunate Tudor lady then.

[Bearsy]

Oh, that's ok Charlie, I just watched it & even tho you ruined the surprise twist at the end, I thought it was brilliantly done + v.moving

[Jonnyboy]

Oh, that's ok Charlie, I just watched it & even tho you ruined the surprise twist at the end, I thought it was brilliantly done + v.moving

 

B srs pls brsy.

[Bearsy]

jb pls I

[lifeintheslowlane]

Haven't watched the last episode of Wolf Hall yet but as the antithesis have a look at the high class rubbish of "House of Fools" (episode 2) the sight gags are hilarious...in tears watching on iPlayer this morning.

[sadoldgit]

Enjoyed Wolf Hall and thought they handled to execution brilliantly, as they did the stitching of the Queen. Cromwell has played a blinder but the acting and script has been quality too.

 

The Mrs has me sitting through Cucumber which I thought I would hate but it has been ok, if a bit full on. Felt sorry for poor Lance last night although I am not sure if the guy who topped him should have gone for a 9 iron rather than a driver.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Finished up Catastrophe last night, cracking little show that. My favourite British sit com in years. All the characters are just great.

[pap]

I've been going through a little Roman phase in my amateur history studies. It's cool stuff, and basically where George RR Martin gets his best ideas from (Crown of gold, I'm looking at you). Anyway, knowledge in hand, I've decided to give Rome a rewatch.

 

The first season in particular is fantastic, chronicling the end of the Republic and the birth of Empire. Pretty much all British cast; the two leads Kidd and Stevenson are excellent, but the whole cast is really good. Perv-wise, men of a certain age will be enthralled with Polly Walker, who plays Attia, a scheming milf sexpot looking to manoeveure her son into power.

 

Second season gets a little bit more kitchen sink, and suffers for it, but still worth catching.

[Bearsy]

I have fond memory of that show! As I remember it, virtually the first scene was of the entire Roman Army standing around waiting, impatiently checking their sundials, and then the camera pans over and you see Mark Antony bumming a peasant girl against a tree

 

Classic Scene!

[pap]

House of Cards Season 3 just landed on Netflix.

[pap]

So, one Sunday later, and I'm all caught up on House of Cards.

 

The series is at an interesting point. Content-wise, it has already delivered more hours than its UK inspiration. It is also getting to the point where the UK story ended, so it really needs to start creating its own universe if it is to survive. There's no more material to ape. At this point, the UK series would be thundering toward its endgame while I'm guessing Netflix are going to be quite happy spinning this one out, thank you very much.

 

The result is something of a mixed bag. Where one could look at previous seasons and say "ah, season one charts such-and-such" and "season two is about this", it's more difficult to do that with the third series. There is a big multi-episode arc going on, but it's very much about the relationship between Francis and Clare, and not necessarily about achieving some defined political aim. Those motives are still there, driving much of the drama, but the overall arc is nothing like as momentous as the first couple of seasons.

 

Widening the scope to bring in a Putin-a-like (and the actual Pussy Riot, for some reason) doesn't provide the thrills I think the writers wanted, while there are a couple of sub-plots that are just plain boring. Nowhere near as good as the opening couple of seasons, but I will hang on for the next season regardless.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Trying to avoid the above post, don't want to know anything about it yet!

 

Not strictly watching yet, but seen Idris Elba tweeted today that he's back filing the new Luther mini-series. Bloody excited for that, one of my favourite shows, so well done.

 

Only downside being having to watch the gf swoon incessantly every time Mr Elba is on screen. Which is a lot.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

In my on-going pursuit of ancient television I am now watching on the True Entertainment channel early episodes of 'The Avengers in Colour' - from the classic mid 60's Diana Rigg as Mrs Peel era.

 

Even I am too young to really remember this series, so old as they are, they are still 'new to me' if you understand. And what great fun they are, the plots are wonderfully daft, the style light hearted and not at all serious, and as for Mrs Peel's supposed martial arts abilities ... well this really has to be seen to be believed! To add to the fun you also get to see actors who would later become stars at a early stage in their careers - a very young Brian Blessed for instance.

 

All you need is for Austin Powers to somehow turn up in his Union Jack bedecked E Type and this glorious vision of 'Cool Britannia' in all its kitsch 60's pomp would be complete.

 

[Bearsy]

So, one Sunday later, and I'm all caught up on House of Cards.

 

The series is at an interesting point. Content-wise, it has already delivered more hours than its UK inspiration. It is also getting to the point where the UK story ended, so it really needs to start creating its own universe if it is to survive. There's no more material to ape. At this point, the UK series would be thundering toward its endgame while I'm guessing Netflix are going to be quite happy spinning this one out, thank you very much.

 

The result is something of a mixed bag. Where one could look at previous seasons and say "ah, season one charts such-and-such" and "season two is about this", it's more difficult to do that with the third series. There is a big multi-episode arc going on, but it's very much about the relationship between Francis and Clare, and not necessarily about achieving some defined political aim. Those motives are still there, driving much of the drama, but the overall arc is nothing like as momentous as the first couple of seasons.

 

Widening the scope to bring in a Putin-a-like (and the actual Pussy Riot, for some reason) doesn't provide the thrills I think the writers wanted, while there are a couple of sub-plots that are just plain boring. Nowhere near as good as the opening couple of seasons, but I will hang on for the next season regardless.

 

It's probably the dumbest show I watch. I hated the episode where they had Claire betray her Character so the writers could make points about how Gay Intolerance In Russia is Bad. In fact Claire all season, was all over the place. I would like to see a show, one day, where a woman is represented as Intelligent and Rational, and doesn't constantly fuck things up for her husband.

 

Also, weren't it weird how Mendoza quietly disappeared?

[iansums]

Enjoying fortitude, bit of a slow burner but it ramped up massively last week. A bit weird, not sure where it is going but I like that.

[pap]

I've been in the wars with my viewing this weekend. Over in the film section, I caught Beneath Hill 60. On stuff intended for the smaller screen, I've recently caught up with Generation War. Billed as the German "Band of Brothers" by some quarters, it charts the progress of five Berlin friends on the eve of Operation Barbarossa. Two of the cohort are brothers that are heading to the Eastern Front as part of the Wehrmacht, Charlotte has signed up to be a field nurse, Greta is an aspiring singer in a forbidden relationship with Viktor, a Jew, son to a respected tailor, who is still taking his chances in 1941 Berlin.

 

The series attracted widespread criticism. This Economist article does a good job of enumerating them.

 

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21574531-new-television-drama-about-wartime-germany-stirs-up-controversy-war-generation

 

Bit more in this Guardian piece. Spoilers on each.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2014/may/12/generation-war-bbc-nazi-germany

 

I agree with the Guardian piece. It is a compelling human story, and it covers the extremes that both sides went to, but especially the Germans. The five friends are mostly sympathetic in their own way, but events catch up with all of them. None of them are the same after the war. We see instances of collective punishment, the liberal definition of "partisan" (German soldiers could shoot partisans, no questions asked), the justification for the ill-treatment (the Nazis justified the atrocities on the basis that USSR never signed up to the Hague convention), the singling out of execution of Jews, the packed trains full of prisoners on their way to death camps.

 

With this level of introspection, I find that the criticisms of the movie to be a little invalid. This is the Germany looking itself in the eye, and acknowledging much of their conduct in the Eastern Front. Martha Kearney called it "five hours of self-pity". If that's true, I think the Germans are worth their five hours. Most Germans had no clue about the comings and goings in the Eastern Front; the leadership constantly told them that they were on the verge of victory in the East. By that point, the propaganda machine wouldn't have allowed much else to filter through. The plight of the average German citizen in the final years of the war and beyond is something that has not been acknowledged. At the time, few gave a f**k about what the Germans might be suffering after everything that had just been done in their name, and who could blame them?

 

The cynical might argue that the narrative device of following each of the five friends allows the filmmakers to give a sugar-coated view of German activities on the Ostfront, but again I'd disagree. Barbarity and fear creeps into each of the characters. Not one ends the experience as a paragon. Not a lot of good stuff on the Eastern Front out there. This is very good stuff, and even as an exercise in what it is modern-day Germans feel comfortable with dealing with on their Nazi past, it's worth a watch.

[stug76]

I've been watching Brooklyn 99 on netflix. Mildly amusing and we'll worth a look.

[Winnersaint]

Caught Reginald D Hunter's Songs of the South on Beeb 2 over last three Saturdays. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Fantastic visuals, great music, much of which is new to my uncultured mainstream ear, a great car and insightful commentary. Great stuff, all round.

[TheCholulaKid]

I'd never seen Peep Show so started watching that over the weekend. It's quite funny.

[pap]

I'd never seen Peep Show so started watching that over the weekend. It's quite funny.

 

Have you seen what "The Bad Thing" is yet?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Season Four is the best. I still haven't seen the final season though, so bear that in mind.

 

Finished up S4 last night. Was really good, kind of had a Luther vibe to it. Though I did think (as with the other series) there's too much emphasis on the build and then the climax almost feels rushed.

 

The ending was crushing though, and very unexpected.

[Bearsy]

i watched the show about convicts in south wales. It was set in old times. It was quite interest, south wales in old times was a lot more sunny than it is today. Most of the show was about whether the convicts get to bang women, or if only the soldiers are allowed to bang women, and if The Hound was allowed to steal Steve's food, or not. I'm not sure how it turned out, I didn't watch right to the end because when it came to it, i found i didn't really give a fuck.

 

I forget what it was called. I watched it on iPlayer.

[TheCholulaKid]

Have you seen what "The Bad Thing" is yet?

 

No, just done 1st two episodes so far. I'll seek it out.

 

Also watching Twin Peaks (again)

[pap]

No, just done 1st two episodes so far. I'll seek it out.

 

Also watching Twin Peaks (again)

 

No need to seek. You'll get there in the first series.

[Jonnyboy]

Finished up S4 last night. Was really good, kind of had a Luther vibe to it. Though I did think (as with the other series) there's too much emphasis on the build and then the climax almost feels rushed.

 

The ending was crushing though, and very unexpected.

 

 

Gawww, she's so lovely

[KelvinsRightGlove]

 

Gawww, she's so lovely

 

Indeed, she was. Really enjoyed watching her character grow and develop from the early episodes.

 

And yes, she's obviously very beautiful. The cast in general (not that unsurprisingly) is fairly attractive.

[pap]

Julie Benz. Yum. I really liked his sister too. Thinking about it, most of the women in Dexter rate a "would" on the "would or wouldn't" scale, even if they were in character and chasing you around with bladed objects.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Julie Benz. Yum. I really liked his sister too. Thinking about it, most of the women in Dexter rate a "would" on the "would or wouldn't" scale, even if they were in character and chasing you around with bladed objects.

 

Haha. As I say, the cast is generally an attractive bunch, male and female. It is an American show after all.

[Jonnyboy]

Indeed, she was. Really enjoyed watching her character grow and develop from the early episodes.

 

And yes, she's obviously very beautiful. The cast in general (not that unsurprisingly) is fairly attractive.

 

Just don't go punching her in the face Kelv OK?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Just don't go punching her in the face Kelv OK?

 

I can't imagine I'd get the chance, but I shall endeavour not to.

 

She'd probably have me anyway. As I've said before, I'm pretty pathetic really.

[pap]

I've seen loads more of Gotham. Let's get this out of the way. This isn't a masterpiece of a show, but it is starting to show a lot of promise. I've been something of a Batman geek since the 1989 film, when I found out that Batman wasn't just the camp Adam West affair. Since then, I've read a lot of the comics, including some of the best graphic novels, so I've a fair bit of knowledge about the universe.

 

Gotham is doing a decent job of putting it onto the screen. Many of the more famous characters have been introduced. This season is undoubtedly about Penguin's meandering ascendancy, but the Riddler has major screen time, and Harvey "Two Face" Dent looks like he could be interesting. Unlike a lot of other interpretations, where the scarring of half his face drives Dent to madness, he already looks to have a hint of madness pre-disfigurement.

 

Sean Pertwee's Alfred has been given a bit of attention. He's as much bodyguard and protector as butler, which enables the young Bruce Wayne to get into considerably more peril than he otherwise might. I'm also warming to Jim Gordon, who initially seemed pretty bland despite being pitched as something as a crusading firebrand in a police department full of corruption. The actor who plays him was in The OC, apparently. The missus had much the same opinion of his slow-burning acting skills.

 

Finally, I'd be doing the lads a disservice if I did not mention the ladies. Jada Pinkett Smith, aka Mrs Will Smith, plays one of the only characters that does not have its roots in the comic source material. Didn't really know where her character was going, but she's had a decent arc overall. Aged a lot, though. If you watched Gotham after watching Matrix Reloaded, you'd see a transition from "stunner" to "mama". The lovely Morena Baccarin also turns up in the tail end of the season too. Woof.

[Jonnyboy]

I've seen loads more of Gotham. Let's get this out of the way. This isn't a masterpiece of a show, but it is starting to show a lot of promise. I've been something of a Batman geek since the 1989 film, when I found out that Batman wasn't just the camp Adam West affair. Since then, I've read a lot of the comics, including some of the best graphic novels, so I've a fair bit of knowledge about the universe.

 

Gotham is doing a decent job of putting it onto the screen. Many of the more famous characters have been introduced. This season is undoubtedly about Penguin's meandering ascendancy, but the Riddler has major screen time, and Harvey "Two Face" Dent looks like he could be interesting. Unlike a lot of other interpretations, where the scarring of half his face drives Dent to madness, he already looks to have a hint of madness pre-disfigurement.

 

Sean Pertwee's Alfred has been given a bit of attention. He's as much bodyguard and protector as butler, which enables the young Bruce Wayne to get into considerably more peril than he otherwise might. I'm also warming to Jim Gordon, who initially seemed pretty bland despite being pitched as something as a crusading firebrand in a police department full of corruption. The actor who plays him was in The OC, apparently. The missus had much the same opinion of his slow-burning acting skills.

 

Finally, I'd be doing the lads a disservice if I did not mention the ladies. Jada Pinkett Smith, aka Mrs Will Smith, plays one of the only characters that does not have its roots in the comic source material. Didn't really know where her character was going, but she's had a decent arc overall. Aged a lot, though. If you watched Gotham after watching Matrix Reloaded, you'd see a transition from "stunner" to "mama". The lovely Morena Baccarin also turns up in the tail end of the season too. Woof.

 

Just started Firefly this last week. Hot damn!!