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Breaking into the top 7.

Professor

By Professor,
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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted
Players IMO that are capable of being in a 'top 7 squad'...

 

Boruc, Clyne, Shaw, Cork, Morgan, Lallana, Gaston, J-Rod, Lambert.....You could also argue Yoshi as well, and maybe Forren but who knows about him?

 

We have players who can do a job in a mid table side....S Davis, Fonte, Puncheon, JWP,

 

And then those who will struggle to compete....K Davis, Hooiveld, Chaplow, Richardson, Fox, Seaborne, Dickson, Barnard, Butterfield, Forte, Gazza, Guly, Lee, De Ridder,

 

Noone knows about Mayuka and I may be a bit harsh on Hooiveld there. Also probably missed some out but oh well.

 

If we can cut a few of those 'strugglers' out and replace them with a few capable of playing for a top 7 team, and a few 'midtable-ers' then who knows what might happen next season.

 

Also if a few of the youngsters can step up then that would be great but hard to know where they will be next season.

 

Hang on! Don't under-estimate Jos Hooiveld. Jos was a superb player for Celtic in the CL and can easily hack it at that level. Why do you think Forren & Fonte are sitting on the bench? They are not injured so that must tell you something surely?

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Why when the lowest they have finished in the last 5 odd years is 8th?
Because I think they're a tired, ageing squad, that don't have the money to kick on at all. I don't think we'll be anything like top 4, but can see us doing something similar to Swansea or WBA. Maybe not top 7, but 8/9th certainly.
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Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

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You could HAVE.

 

We might be only four points off the relegation places, but in case you hadn't noticed, we're also in 12th place.

 

I presume that any other team, like us, will try to improve their squads. But also I presume that they will have a core of players whom they consider cannot be improved upon without much difficulty and expense. They will also have some youngsters coming through their ranks who they will blood into their team when they are considered to be good enough for the step up, which will mean that they don't have to lash out lots of money on players imported from other teams.

 

Strengthening for us has more to do with signing extra depth as back up to existing players in most positions, rather than any wholesale replacement of most of the team. As usual, we will only buy if the player is deemed to be better than what we already have.

 

What would be interesting in light of this ridiculous opinion of yours that wholesale changes need to be made to the squad (and ridiculous amounts spent in the event), would be your opinion on which players need to be replaced and who you would suggest as their replacements. Come on, let's have the list; not the list of players who haven't played for us since the second division, the current squad, please.

I believe I have done that.

 

Fox

De Ridder

Guly

Mayuka

Butterfield

Richardson

For a start, how many on loan do you want me to go through?

That should make it around the number I stated, now then you have the youngsters but they are still playing youth football, do you think they are capable of pushing on past Liverpool or Everton for 7th place?

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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Hang on! Don't under-estimate Jos Hooiveld. Jos was a superb player for Celtic in the CL and can easily hack it at that level. Why do you think Forren & Fonte are sitting on the bench? They are not injured so that must tell you something surely?

 

I just think Hooiveld is a bit more clumsy than the others. I think there is room for him in the squad for when we play teams like WHU and Stoke though. As I said, i'm probably being a bit harsh because he has been very good recently and fair play to him for that. However I still believe Yoshi and Fonte are better than him, and who knows with Forren,

 

Fonte has been injured (he went off vs Chelsea in the cup), but I thought he was very good for a lot of the season, and was very good Vs Liverpool when he came on.

 

I have to say I'm surprised that Jos is being picked over Jose at the moment, but that is MP's call.

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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Jos Hooiveld is crap, Celtic reject, Daniel Fox as well, thats sort of sums it up.

 

Hooiveld is not crap at all. He's not amazing but he's not crap. Neither is Fox, ok, maybe not quite been good enough this season, but not crap at all. Was superb for us last season in the Champ. However I'm guessing by your join date that you are one of these premiership fans...

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Dig Dig

Dig Dig

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Jos Hooiveld is crap, Celtic reject, Daniel Fox as well, thats sort of sums it up.

 

So crap, he can walk away this season and say that he was in the team which beat Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea.

 

If he were crap, Pochettino wouldn't be selecting him.

 

Sharpen up Bazza

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Wiggles31

Wiggles31

Posted
Posted
Players IMO that are capable of being in a 'top 7 squad'...

 

Boruc, Clyne, Shaw, Cork, Morgan, Lallana, Gaston, J-Rod, Lambert.....You could also argue Yoshi as well, and maybe Forren but who knows about him?

 

We have players who can do a job in a mid table side....S Davis, Fonte, Puncheon, JWP,

 

And then those who will struggle to compete....K Davis, Hooiveld, Chaplow, Richardson, Fox, Seaborne, Dickson, Barnard, Butterfield, Forte, Gazza, Guly, Lee, De Ridder,

 

Noone knows about Mayuka and I may be a bit harsh on Hooiveld there. Also probably missed some out but oh well.

 

If we can cut a few of those 'strugglers' out and replace them with a few capable of playing for a top 7 team, and a few 'midtable-ers' then who knows what might happen next season.

 

Also if a few of the youngsters can step up then that would be great but hard to know where they will be next season.

 

Agreed with this. Perhaps JWP is too young to consider as either a mid table or top 7 player.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
Players IMO that are capable of being in a 'top 7 squad'...

 

Boruc, Clyne, Shaw, Cork, Morgan, Lallana, Gaston, J-Rod, Lambert.....You could also argue Yoshi as well, and maybe Forren but who knows about him?

 

We have players who can do a job in a mid table side....S Davis, Fonte, Puncheon, JWP,

 

And then those who will struggle to compete....K Davis, Hooiveld, Chaplow, Richardson, Fox, Seaborne, Dickson, Barnard, Butterfield, Forte, Gazza, Guly, Lee, De Ridder,

 

Noone knows about Mayuka and I may be a bit harsh on Hooiveld there. Also probably missed some out but oh well.

 

If we can cut a few of those 'strugglers' out and replace them with a few capable of playing for a top 7 team, and a few 'midtable-ers' then who knows what might happen next season.

 

Also if a few of the youngsters can step up then that would be great but hard to know where they will be next season.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement with your lists. I would argue Yoshida in the first bunch of players who could play at top 7 level, as generally he's defended pretty well against players in the top teams.

 

Your four in the second rank are good cover for the first lot, generally reliable enough to do a good job and not let you down.

 

Of the third rank, Gazza is still a youngster who might be one for the future. Hooiveld could be promoted to the second rank. Lee is a bit like Mayuka and not enough seen of him to decide, although presumably Adkins/Pochettino haven't been that impressed so far. We wouldn't miss the others, so replacing them with cover for the first rank would as you say be the improvement we need.

 

I agree that there is a good crop of youngsters coming through, but whether any of them will be good enough to step up anytime soon remains to be seen.

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Olallana

Olallana

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Funny that in this thread the sentiment from one certain person is that we cant advance up the table cause other clubs are able to buy more than we are.

 

But in other threads the complaints are that we haven´t advanced further even though we are the 6th highest spender....

 

A bit strange to me....

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Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

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Posted
Funny that in this thread the sentiment from one certain person is that we cant advance up the table cause other clubs are able to buy more than we are.

 

But in other threads the complaints are that we haven´t advanced further even though we are the 6th highest spender....

 

A bit strange to me....

 

So we should be 6th then? We needed to strengthen simply to be able to compete in this League, (we bought crap as well) and its our old hands bought for Million doing the business.

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Olallana

Olallana

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So we should be 6th then? We needed to strengthen simply to be able to compete in this League, (we bought crap as well) and its our old hands bought for Million doing the business.

 

No, I have never said that. but the sentiment has been that we should do better than we have had amongst the troll family.

 

And by the way, we are a newcomer sitting in 12th position.

What would be your definition of competing?

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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Being in the squad is not the first team is it? Thats my point of challenging for the top 7, what players of ours would get into the top 7's first team?

 

Personally think Morgan, Cork, Shaw, Boruc and Clyne wouldn't look out of place in any of the top 7 sides. Yes some have better players than them, but I don't think it would weaken them that much.

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KelvinsRightGlove

KelvinsRightGlove

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So we should be 6th then? We needed to strengthen simply to be able to compete in this League, (we bought crap as well) and its our old hands bought for Million doing the business.

 

The old hands doing the business?

 

5 of the starting XI on Saturday are in their first season at the club.

 

But yeah, those bought in have been a terrible failure.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

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Posted
Being in the squad is not the first team is it? Thats my point of challenging for the top 7, what players of ours would get into the top 7's first team?

 

You're the one b*tching about how we aren't capable of playing at that level.

 

Let's have your list of our players capable of playing at top 7 level. I've already agreed with St Garrett's list and the inference as far as I'm concerned is that squad and team should be inter-changeable depending on tactics, injuries, suspensions. And let's not attempt to sidetrack the issue by naming players good enough to get into any top 7 team. What we're actually discussing is players for our team who would be capable together of forming a team which could gain a place 7th or above.

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Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

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Posted
Personally think Morgan, Cork, Shaw, Boruc and Clyne wouldn't look out of place in any of the top 7 sides. Yes some have better players than them, but I don't think it would weaken them that much.

 

You personally? Yes I agree but you could be a bit more specific with your example, Schneiderlin would probably have the best chance of getting into the most 1st teams, the others probably not now and Boruc no.

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Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

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Posted (edited)
You're the one b*tching about how we aren't capable of playing at that level.

 

Let's have your list of our players capable of playing at top 7 level. I've already agreed with St Garrett's list and the inference as far as I'm concerned is that squad and team should be inter-changeable depending on tactics, injuries, suspensions. And let's not attempt to sidetrack the issue by naming players good enough to get into any top 7 team. What we're actually discussing is players for our team who would be capable together of forming a team which could gain a place 7th or above.

 

Wes I believe I did that on this thread,

Squad/1st team

Boruc

Clyne

Shaw

Davis

Cork

Ramirez (even though he has proved nothing, with more quality I believe he could be good)

Schneiderlin

Puncheon

Lallana

Rodriguez

Lambert

 

Fringe

Davis

Fonte

Yoshida

Forren?

JWP (Needs more time)

 

Now if we buy quality above that and to that equal for Millions then we could challenge for 7th.

Edited by Barry Sanchez
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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
Personally think Morgan, Cork, Shaw, Boruc and Clyne wouldn't look out of place in any of the top 7 sides. Yes some have better players than them, but I don't think it would weaken them that much.

And let's not forget that although there might be better players in those top teams than some of ours, that doesn't mean that if they were inter-changed that they would play well together. Sometimes a team is greater than the sum of its parts. Sometimes a collection of individual stars is just that, rather than a team. Swap Cork or Schneiderlin with A/N Other star midfielder and they wouldn't necessarily improve the pairing, because they might not have the understanding of each others' game, or have an empathy with each other. Also it is important that the players have a good team spirit and attitude too, not just ability.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

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Posted
Wes I believe I did that on this thread,

Squad/1st team

Boruc

Clyne

Shaw

Davis

Cork

Ramirez (even though he has proved nothing, with more quality I believe he could be good)

Schneiderlin

Puncheon

Lallana

Rodriguez

Lambert

 

Fringe

Davis

Fonte

Yoshida

Forren?

JWP (Needs more time)

 

Now if we buy quality above that and to that equal for Millions then we could challenge for 7th.

 

So is that eleven you named as the first team /squad good enough as it is to gain a 7th place spot? I've asked for a list of players capable of forming a team which could gain a place in the top 7, so presumably you agree that pretty well what is our first choice team and fringe back ups is good enough. Granted that we need back up to that standard too, but as that list didn't cost the earth, then the expenditure wouldn't be massive, would it, especially if some players were ready to step up from the academy?

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Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

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Posted
So is that eleven you named as the first team /squad good enough as it is to gain a 7th place spot? I've asked for a list of players capable of forming a team which could gain a place in the top 7, so presumably you agree that pretty well what is our first choice team and fringe back ups is good enough. Granted that we need back up to that standard too, but as that list didn't cost the earth, then the expenditure wouldn't be massive, would it, especially if some players were ready to step up from the academy?

 

But to get the team to that standard (probably could not be done as we discussed the % of a team like the class of 93 coming along again) would be over the time predictions stated by Cortese so therefore we would have to spend millions on ready made players and a blend of our own to do so.

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captainchris

captainchris

Posted
Posted
Stated ambition, how feasible?

At the end of this season there is likely to be a significant gap in points between the top 7 and the teams that finish 8th and below. It’s almost as if the top 7 are playing in a separate competition. With several of the teams in the bottom half of the table playing each other, there is not impossible for Saints to finish in the top half of the table if they can win 4 or 5 of the remaining 7 games but the team in 7th place, Liverpool, despite losing at St Mary's, is a comfortable 14 points ahead of Southampton. Two wins and a draw for Liverpool out of 7 games and they are unreachable even if Saints were to win all 7 remaining matches, which no one would imagine possible anyway.

 

But, here's another way of looking at this. Obviously, without the disastrous start to the season things would have been different, but if you watched the Chelsea/Man U FA cup game, something else stuck out. That neither team played better than Saints would have done. Two of the top 4 but too many passes went astray, players resorted to hoofball and chances on goal were missed. If Southampton had played as poorly as either team did at times, the fans would have rightly been on their backs.

 

So, can we break into the top 7? With this squad, and maybe bRy adding a top calibre CB, I don’t see why not. They are looking good enough.

 

Not sure I agree that both teams didn't play well. Chelsea were in control for most of the game and with Mata and Hazzard are far superior to the team that played against us!

United granted were poor most of the game.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

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Posted
But to get the team to that standard (probably could not be done as we discussed the % of a team like the class of 93 coming along again) would be over the time predictions stated by Cortese so therefore we would have to spend millions on ready made players and a blend of our own to do so.

 

We've already got a team capable of beating most of the top teams of the Premiership, which they've actually proven by their actions recently.

 

Now all we've got to do, is spend millions more on getting the players capable of winning matches against the likes of Wigan, Newcastle and QPR.

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pap

pap

Posted
Posted
Who is this Barry fella getting all the replies? His first post indicates he doesn't warrant much attention.

 

It's an "impressive" haul of posts he's amassed in his first five months here, isn't it?

 

Not one of them impressive, btw :D

 

Glasgow will be along shortly to tell Bazza he is being bullied and that he is the best poster on the site.

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Barry Sanchez

Barry Sanchez

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Posted
It's an "impressive" haul of posts he's amassed in his first five months here, isn't it?

 

Not one of them impressive, btw :D

 

Glasgow will be along shortly to tell Bazza he is being bullied and that he is the best poster on the site.

 

Pap will shortly be along to say he is short and take a photo of himself in edgelane.......

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