Realistic target placing next season - current squad?

[The Kraken]

I seem to remember Nixon saying that we were interested in Yoshi and then Simon Peach said it won't happen. Then Nixon tweeted that we were watching quite a few but hadn't made a decision. I still think our no1 CB target was Rhys Williams from Middlesbrough, but then he got injured and left us in no mans land.

 

I certainly thought that Curtis Davies would have been a good shout, but he doesn't seem to have gone anywhere after being linked with a number of clubs.

 

Davies was a name that was mentioned in summer and at the time I'd have been pleased with. Not sure now whether he'd have been a decent addition or not; Brum have had a dreadful season.

[SaintBobby]

I'm not expecting a huge leap forward next season - probably aspiring to mid-table and never in serious danger of relegation is a good target (as with Swansea, Fulham or West Brom this year).

 

I can't see any chance of breaking into the top 6 without truly enormous investment.

 

Also, the difference in places around the mid-table is so small that targeting a league position rather than a points total seems a bit strange. A points total of 50 might be a good target, but this might leave you finishing anywhere from, say, 8th - 14th.

[Turkish]

Has Turkish hacked into your account?

 

No, it's clearly not just me that thinks there are some utter Prats on this forum.

[The Kraken]

I'm not expecting a huge leap forward next season - probably aspiring to mid-table and never in serious danger of relegation is a good target (as with Swansea, Fulham or West Brom this year).

 

I can't see any chance of breaking into the top 6 without truly enormous investment.

 

Also, the difference in places around the mid-table is so small that targeting a league position rather than a points total seems a bit strange. A points total of 50 might be a good target, but this might leave you finishing anywhere from, say, 8th - 14th.

 

A very reasonable post.

 

As is being proved at the moment, the gap between 18th and 11th is barely recognisable. From 8th to 12th its not enormous either. From 4th to 8th its an absolute chasm, and as you say would require years of enormous investment to breach.

[Saint Garrett]

Davies was a name that was mentioned in summer and at the time I'd have been pleased with. Not sure now whether he'd have been a decent addition or not; Brum have had a dreadful season.

 

Yep, agree. Which makes you pleased we didnt waste the money while also showing there was little CB options available. The only decent option that has been proven is probably Bassong.

[georgeweahscousin]

This season it took some of our players a while to get used to the PL, hence our poor start. Next season, same squad, more experience, Poch in charge, it could be a very different story!

[The Kraken]

Yep, agree. Which makes you pleased we didnt waste the money while also showing there was little CB options available. The only decent option that has been proven is probably Bassong.

 

As I recall there weren't many signings made around the £5M+ mark for CBs, so there are few benchmarks really. Bassong was a good signing, though.

[Saint Garrett]

As I recall there weren't many signings made around the £5M+ mark for CBs, so there are few benchmarks really. Bassong was a good signing, though.

 

I see that because there weren't many options about. The teams that went down, had little quality at CB. The teams around us weren't willing to sell, and the teams above us probably they wouldnt want to drop to a new ly promoted club.

[The Kraken]

I see that because there weren't many options about. The teams that went down, had little quality at CB. The teams around us weren't willing to sell, and the teams above us probably they wouldnt want to drop to a new ly promoted club.

 

Well it may be this summer that if we do want a really good CB, we may have to prise them away with a top offer rather than going for someone who is more readily available for a cheaper price. We did with Ramirez; we may need to do it again if that's the priority. I guess we'll find out our priorities in due course.

[Wes Tender]

The current top sides will strengthen so we will have to spend an awful lot more than them or do very well in the transfer window, lets just see who we sell as well, thats the real statement of intent, refusing to sell players when big offers come in.

 

And lets just concentrate on this season.

 

Why will we have to spend an awful lot more than the top teams to improve our position relative to them? That is not a neccesity at all and there is the distinct possibility that we could improve our position by spending far less than the top teams. Just for starters, several of those top teams are seeking to buy some of our players to improve their teams, which is a rather contradictory position, isn't it, as they would have to spend quite a bit to buy players that are already ours.

[dubai_phil]

This. I was totally of this view and I still am. Had we followed it earlier then we would have more points than we currently do and would be safe

 

IMHO it was one hell of a gamble.

 

BUT.

 

IF we stay up we have experienced players all through the squad and can then add more "Talent and Potential" things could be very interesting next season.

 

I would have to assume at least one Academy player will be pushing to join the squad (as did Luke Shaw in the summer tour) and, having seen the improvement in Individual players in the past 6/8 weeks with MP the opportunity to bring in players who have better POTENTIAL than we have now starts to get exciting.

 

Not getting carried away, still have gaps in the squad to cover, but imagine finding a young striker for 4/5/7 million who has the potential to be a BETTER player than JRod is looking like he could be....

 

IF we stay up then no way I'd want to bring in a Donkey with an OLD Head on him (Titus Bramble anyone? )

[The Kraken]

IF we stay up then no way I'd want to bring in a Donkey with an OLD Head on him (Titus Bramble anyone? )

 

Oh, Philip. You went and did it, didn't you? You went down the "Kieron Dyer" type of analogy route.

 

The ability of the player is utterly key. Experience is simply another string to the bow, a nice to have, something that also qualifies the ability. You go for some players with experience because, quite frankly, they're much of a lesser risk that lower league or foreign players. Because their experience in the PL is a benchmark to use of their ability.

 

Titf*ck Bumble FFS.

[Barry Sanchez]

Why will we have to spend an awful lot more than the top teams to improve our position relative to them? That is not a neccesity at all and there is the distinct possibility that we could improve our position by spending far less than the top teams. Just for starters, several of those top teams are seeking to buy some of our players to improve their teams, which is a rather contradictory position, isn't it, as they would have to spend quite a bit to buy players that are already ours.

 

So you dont think we would have to invest significantly to get into the top 6?

[croydonsaint]

What is your personal view on a fair target league placing for this current squad next season?

 

As we sit 12th after the start we had, not having Yoshida, Ramirez and Boruc at start of season, rapid development of Clyne, Shaw, Rodriguez, plus players like Cork, Morgan, Puncheon, Ramirez, Lallana still under peak ages...

 

I would look at target of 6-9th with likely finish above 13th.

 

Turkish describes this as 'seriously deluded'. Maybe, but my opinion.

 

What are other's views?

 

First of all interesting question but do not know why you would quote Turkish who is clearly an attention seeker with too much time on his hands.

With at least one more major signing likely by the start of next season and clearly a very decent squad surely we will be above tenth at the end of next season. I would be a dream to be in the top six but 8th or 9th would be my prediction for next season.

[Saint_clark]

 

We've made more than that through sales in the last 5 years, surely.

[dubai_phil]

Oh, Philip. You went and did it, didn't you? You went down the "Kieron Dyer" type of analogy route.

 

The ability of the player is utterly key. Experience is simply another string to the bow, a nice to have, something that also qualifies the ability. You go for some players with experience because, quite frankly, they're much of a lesser risk that lower league or foreign players. Because their experience in the PL is a benchmark to use of their ability.

 

Titf*ck Bumble FFS.

 

Aw, c'mon, it was the easiest chance I've had all season

 

 

Perhaps Jenas in CM then?

[The Kraken]

Aw, c'mon, it was the easiest chance I've had all season

 

 

Perhaps Jenas in CM then?

 

With Heskey up front; you're on. And maybe we could tempt Michael Owen out of retirement to make a dream team striker partnership.

[Wes Tender]

So you dont think we would have to invest significantly to get into the top 6?

 

I didn't say that we wouldn't invest significantly. I was questioning your assertion that the top teams would strengthen, so we would have to spend an awful lot more than them to improve our position.

 

Because of the success of our academy, that isn't necessarily the case. We could arguably have a team now that was capable of challenging for a top 6 place, had we been able to keep the best players from our academy in recent years, together with the core of our current team.

 

Furthermore, massive expenditure on players doesn't necessarily equate to improvement in a team. There are too many examples of costly players who have flopped to show that.

[The Kraken]

I didn't say that we wouldn't invest significantly. I was questioning your assertion that the top teams would strengthen, so we would have to spend an awful lot more than them to improve our position.

 

Because of the success of our academy, that isn't necessarily the case. We could arguably have a team now that was capable of challenging for a top 6 place, had we been able to keep the best players from our academy in recent years, together with the core of our current team.

 

Furthermore, massive expenditure on players doesn't necessarily equate to improvement in a team. There are too many examples of costly players who have flopped to show that.

 

Just wondering, Wes. How do you equate our academy in recent years against the likes of the top clubs? The general top 4 clubs. How much ahead of them do you see we are?

[david in sweden]

my crystal ball is at the polishers until May, think it's better to wait until August to see the outcome of that one

[david in sweden]

Because of the success of our academy, that isn't necessarily the case. We could arguably have a team now that was capable of challenging for a top 6 place, had we been able to keep the best players from our academy in recent years, together with the core of our current team.

 

I'm a great believer in the potential of some of our younger players, BUT being a success in the Academy is no guarantee of a Prem. league career.

 

Although, Luke Shaw undoubtedly looked a top class player from day 1, and JWP has been a " qualified success " just looking back at some of the names who were alongside Walcott, Bale and Alex O-C in their generations Academy squads, it's hard to trace some of them today ...and a few have dropped out of League football altogether.

 

I'm sure that there is huge potential in the upcoming U21 / U18 sides, but I doubt if more than 2 or 3 of them will have a lasting Prem. career.

[Suomi Saint]

IF we stay up and don't invest further - which we undoubtedly will - then a bottom half finish it will be. These players will be running on empty after half a season with the tempo we play at. If we go down then the squad will have more holes than a colander. This season will have a lot more twists and turns yet. If we get beat on Saturday then the anti-Cortese brigade will be out in force. Funny game, football.

[AussieDog]

Shouldn't have to say this, but the pedants on here seem to insist on it....

IF WE STAY UP....

With the current squad I could see us finishing (barely) top half - but with a significant gap between us and the top 5 or 6.

Would be happy to tie Boruc down to a new contract but failing that we HAVE to get a top notch keeper from somewhere (no idea who though). If we can keep all our best players and add a class CB and a genuine midfield playmaker, along with Robin Van Persie (joke) then we could challenge top 6.

Definitely need to get rid of alot of fringe players though, to give some of the better young ones the opportunity to get in amongst the first team squad as well.

[positivepete]

A realistic target could be 55 points next season. City achieved 55 points in 2007/08. Our neighbours got 57 that year. Look where we all are now.

[Dalek2003]

One thing at a time. Let's wait and see which league we are in first.

[Wes Tender]

Just wondering, Wes. How do you equate our academy in recent years against the likes of the top clubs? The general top 4 clubs. How much ahead of them do you see we are?

 

I just made the point that because we have been producing some players who could play for any English team, there is not the necessity to spend as much on buying players in as there would otherwise be. Certainly not more than the top clubs spend to get us to the next level, as Barry suggests. (Oh, I forgot, he doesn't like familiarity; Mr Sanchez.)

 

How do you think that a team would fare comprising former players like Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Dyer, and others currently at our disposal like Shaw, Schneiderlin, Cork, Clyne, Lallana, Lambert, Ramirez, Rodriguez? OK, that cannot be, but if we produced the equivalents of those academy players in the next upcoming batch, it is not impossible that in the future we could be in a similar position. That appears to be Cortese's thinking.

 

How does our academy compare against those of the top teams in recent years? We are surely the equal of any of them at least, aren't we?

[Barry Sanchez]

Wes you know my persona on here so calling me Barry or Mr Sanchez is fine, calling someone you dont know by their first name is over familiar, would you call your boss on the first occasion of meeting him call him his first name without him saying so?

And calling professional footballers their first name is downright well backward.

[Barry Sanchez]

I just made the point that because we have been producing some players who could play for any English team, there is not the necessity to spend as much on buying players in as there would otherwise be. Certainly not more than the top clubs spend to get us to the next level, as Barry suggests. (Oh, I forgot, he doesn't like familiarity; Mr Sanchez.)

 

How do you think that a team would fare comprising former players like Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Dyer, and others currently at our disposal like Shaw, Schneiderlin, Cork, Clyne, Lallana, Lambert, Ramirez, Rodriguez? OK, that cannot be, but if we produced the equivalents of those academy players in the next upcoming batch, it is not impossible that in the future we could be in a similar position. That appears to be Cortese's thinking.

 

How does our academy compare against those of the top teams in recent years? We are surely the equal of any of them at least, aren't we?

 

The top teams keep their academies players though, the acid test will be for us in the pre season if we stay up, would Cortese refuse a £17 Million bid for Shaw? That will show our true intent.

[Bearsy]

Wes you know my persona on here so calling me Barry or Mr Sanchez is fine, calling someone you dont know by their first name is over familiar, would you call your boss on the first occasion of meeting him call him his first name without him saying so?

And calling professional footballers their first name is downright well backward.

 

I was down church yesterday and they wanted me praise Jesus & I was like nu-uh! Mr. Christ innit.

[Olallana]

Wes you know my persona on here so calling me Barry or Mr Sanchez is fine, calling someone you dont know by their first name is over familiar, would you call your boss on the first occasion of meeting him call him his first name without him saying so?

And calling professional footballers their first name is downright well backward.

 

If you had the opportunity to have a handshake with no.7 in our team.

Would you say hi Rickie or hi Lambert??

[Barry Sanchez]

If you had the opportunity to have a handshake with no.7 in our team.

Would you say hi Rickie or hi Lambert??

 

When was the last time you called someone without Mr, Master, Ms or Mrs etc etc?

This isn't a locker room in 1960's New England.

[Olallana]

A question answered with a question.

 

For people to use when they dont have an answer (or when they are politicians).

[Barry Sanchez]

A question answered with a question.

 

For people to use when they dont have an answer (or when they are politicians).

 

I would say hello for a start, calling someone their first name without knowing them is simply bad form, you ask them first, poor social etiquette nothing more nothing less, why dont British/Northern European players have their first names on their shirts?

[Barry Sanchez]

And Morgan passes to Rickie who shoots and its saved by Joe, Joe clears his lines and its picked up by Gareth who then is tackled by Jack....................................

[Barry Sanchez]

I thank you.

[NickG]

don't let Nick G see this, he thinks our current squad with no additions can finish 6th.

 

Do think your posts, where you lack any respect for others opinions and lie to try to start argument are a bit strange. Won't get personal, as the trouble with the Internet is, for all I know I'm getting into a personal argument with a 12 year old with learning difficulties ( not saying you are for a moment) but risks of debating with strange people on internet).

 

Nearly all posters on here either agreed with me or were more optimistic.

 

I said a realistic TARGET of 6-9th with current squad. Realistically expecting top 12 finish.

 

You think all of us are " seriously deluded " for some reason, personally I think you are unrealistic and have a negative view of our players ability, and their ability to improve further.

 

To give some weight my view....from the real world...I looked at how we have performed over last few months...taking current form bit further.

 

I was surprised we were so high, so looked back further until October.

 

I was impressed to see that over last 5 months, 23 games, the league table is;

 

Man U

Man C

Spurs

arsenal

Liverpool

Everton

Chelsea

SAINTS

 

Over about 2/3 of a season we have been the 8th best side.

 

Why would it be deluded to AIM to continue this performance (its 5 months so not a blip)?

 

It maybe that a team of 22/23 years olds will not improve. We maybe worse next season.

 

But surely only a fool would aim to be worse? Or is that what you think?

 

[To preempt your reply...I clearly said target 6-9th (or continue at our current level) and would finish in top 12. I have also never said our squad is league 1 standard players, another of your lies frequently corrected with quotes, so maybe stick to answering post not your made up personal trolling ]

[Turkish]

Do think your posts, where you lack any respect for others opinions and lie to try to start argument are a bit strange. Won't get personal, as the trouble with the Internet is, for all I know I'm getting into a personal argument with a 12 year old with learning difficulties ( not saying you are for a moment) but risks of debating with strange people on internet).

 

Nearly all posters on here either agreed with me or were more optimistic.

 

I said a realistic TARGET of 6-9th with current squad. Realistically expecting top 12 finish.

 

You think all of us are " seriously deluded " for some reason, personally I think you are unrealistic and have a negative view of our players ability, and their ability to improve further.

 

To give some weight my view....from the real world...I looked at how we have performed over last few months...taking current form bit further.

 

I was surprised we were so high, so looked back further until October.

 

I was impressed to see that over last 5 months, 23 games, the league table is;

 

Man U

Man C

Spurs

arsenal

Liverpool

Everton

Chelsea

SAINTS

 

Over about 2/3 of a season we have been the 8th best side.

 

Why would it be deluded to AIM to continue this performance (its 5 months so not a blip)?

 

It maybe that a team of 22/23 years olds will not improve. We maybe worse next season.

 

But surely only a fool would aim to be worse? Or is that what you think?

 

[To preempt your reply...I clearly said target 6-9th (or continue at our current level) and would finish in top 12. I have also never said our squad is league 1 standard players, another of your lies frequently corrected with quotes, so maybe stick to answering post not your made up personal trolling ]

 

Surely there are some stats you can find that prove a team that are 4 points above the drop zone with 7 games left finish 6th the following season with exactly the same players.

[Wes Tender]

Wes you know my persona on here so calling me Barry or Mr Sanchez is fine, calling someone you dont know by their first name is over familiar, would you call your boss on the first occasion of meeting him call him his first name without him saying so?

And calling professional footballers their first name is downright well backward.

 

I'm versed sufficiently well in the social graces to know enough about the etiquette regarding the correct way to address people I meet, or those who I have not met, when discussing them with others. And I have rather more years of this experience than you.

 

And there is plainly a distinction that can be made between how one would address people that one is familiar with as a fan or admirer, when discussing them with others who share that interest in them.

 

A simple example would be a discussion between fans of pop stars, film stars or footballers. Would fans of Elvis Presley call him Mr. Presley? Of course not. Nobody discussing a Beatles concert would describe the performances of Messrs. Lennon, McCartney, Harrison or Starr as everybody that admired them would be entirely comfortable with John, Paul, George and Ringo. Would you really find that over-familiar?

 

So why is it different for Saints fans discussing their favourites on a Saints Forum? Frankly, I find your opinion on this to be a bit bizarre.

 

There is a good reason why commentators do not use their surnames, which if you gave it a little thought, might become clear to you too. Apart from the impression of bias that it would give, there is the increased probability of there being more than one player sharing the same Christian name. Our squad for example, currently has 2 Jacks and also 2 Steves. Not long ago, we have had 3 Dans. Unless there are players on the pitch who share the same surname like Davies/Davis, no confusion arises.

[Wes Tender]

The top teams keep their academies players though, the acid test will be for us in the pre season if we stay up, would Cortese refuse a £17 Million bid for Shaw? That will show our true intent.

 

Yes, you're right that if we are to pursue a policy of bringing through the future academy stars as an integral part of our future plans, we need to be able to tempt them to stay with us.

 

I don't know whether we would refuse an offer of £17 Million for Shaw. Certainly the impression is given that unless we receive a ludicrously high offer for our most talented players, we do not need to sell for financial reasons. Naturally our position is weakened by the players themselves wanting to leave to play for clubs after their services and strengthened when several clubs are after the same player. But if such a player commanded a really stupid fee, then there comes a point when you say that with that sort of money one could replace them with somebody equally good, or with two or more players who could strengthen the team in other areas.

[Wes Tender]

[To preempt your reply...I clearly said target 6-9th (or continue at our current level) and would finish in top 12. I have also never said our squad is league 1 standard players, another of your lies frequently corrected with quotes, so maybe stick to answering post not your made up personal trolling ]

 

I'm surprised that you didn't immediately conclude that anything he said in response to your posts was inevitably trolling or in wind-up merchant mode. That's more usually his MO, rather than trying to debate something that contradicts his own entrenched position.

Edited 1 April, 2013 by Wes Tender

[NickG]

Surely there are some stats you can find that prove a team that are 4 points above the drop zone with 7 games left finish 6th the following season with exactly the same players.

 

Fair enough. Guess you can't answer or justify your digs so is just trolling.

 

Who thinks we will finish 6th? You know I didn't say that so not sure why you think relevant?

 

Doubt any team who escapes relegation doesnt aim to improve the next season.

 

You still think the 90% on here who think we should aim for same or better are seriously deluded and the realistic aim in land of Turkish is to try really hard to develop young players do they can drop their performance?

 

Can imagine you end of season talk, telling the young squad how well they have settled, improved as individuals and a team, next season will be more experienced, a year closer to their peak, new manager... Our target ...to drop our performance level. Lol.

[Turkish]

I'm surprised that you didn't immediately conclude that anything he said in response to your posts was inevitably trolling or in wind-up merchant mode. That's more usually his MO, rather than trying to debate something that contradicts his own entrenched position.

 

Stop sulking because I usually run rings round you.

[Turkish]

Fair enough. Guess you can't answer or justify your digs so is just trolling.

 

Who thinks we will finish 6th? You know I didn't say that so not sure why you think relevant?

 

Doubt any team who escapes relegation doesnt aim to improve the next season.

 

You still think the 90% on here who think we should aim for same or better are seriously deluded and the realistic aim in land of Turkish is to try really hard to develop young players do they can drop their performance?

 

Can imagine you end of season talk, telling the young squad how well they have settled, improved as individuals and a team, next season will be more experienced, a year closer to their peak, new manager... Our target ...to drop our performance level. Lol.

 

What was that you were saying about making things up?

[NickG]

What was that you were saying about making things up?

 

Difference is, I said I can imagine you saying. You are saying it is deluded to aim for us to carry on as he have for last 5 months. Just pointing out how rather than deluded, aiming for continuation or improvement is reasonable. Aiming lower is bit strange.

 

Anyway, maybe you will apologise for your "seriously deluded" type comments, and realise you are being bit silly.

 

Either way, that's my posts for day and a beer awaits.

 

Enjoy.

[Turkish]

Difference is, I said I can imagine you saying. You are saying it is deluded to aim for us to carry on as he have for last 5 months. Just pointing out how rather than deluded, aiming for continuation or improvement is reasonable. Aiming lower is bit strange.

 

Anyway, maybe you will apologise for your "seriously deluded" type comments, and realise you are being bit silly.

 

Either way, that's my posts for day and a beer awaits.

 

Enjoy.

 

To think that this squad with no additions will finish next season fighting it out for 6th place with Everton and Liverpool and get 20 or so more points than this season is deluded.

[Minsk]

To think that this squad with no additions will finish next season fighting it out for 6th place with Everton and Liverpool and get 20 or so more points than this season is deluded.

 

But he didn't say they would be fighting it out for 6th place. He said they should TARGET 6th-8th, while realistically expecting no lower than 12th. Therefore, if there is one position you should be focusing on from his post it is 12th.

[Minsk]

The top teams keep their academies players though, the acid test will be for us in the pre season if we stay up, would Cortese refuse a £17 Million bid for Shaw? That will show our true intent.

 

I must have imagined Utd selling Beckham and Ronaldo to Real Madrid (because they offered stupid money in fees and wages).

 

It is the same for every player, there is a fee which is deemed acceptable - especially if the player wants the move (i.e. Walcott and Chamberlain).

 

Most certainly historically (under Lowe, for example) those fees were set quite low; whilst now they are much higher (as in we refused 10m for Shaw in January). The acid test, though, is if Cortese is serious in his wanting us to push for Europe in the next few years is whether he simply refuses to let any of our promising youngsters leave.

[Aardvark]

Let's just calm these threads until we're actually safe. As good as our last 2 performances have been, we're still only 4 points from safety (could be 1 if Wigan win their game in hand, although unlikely)

 

Long way to go until I can feel conformable talking about next seasons chances!

 

Not true - we'd still be 4 points clear.

[Window Cleaner]

Not true - we'd still be 4 points clear.

 

And a big wedge of GD to boot. We are still a virtual 5 points clear of Wigan and Villa. The situation at the top of the table will induce Citeh to try to crush every side they play cos it's going to get tight up at 2/3/4 and 5. Wigan or Villa will go down, Reading and QPR are already gone, no matter what they do they won't get enough points to survive.

[norwaysaint]

Wow, some really silly squabbling and snideyness going on here. What's with all of the childish "Let's concentrate on this season." nonsense? Somebody taking the internet way too seriously there. It's pretty clear the OP is talking about if we stay up.

 

To answer that one, and I also think we'll stay up, I'd say that I think we'll do better next season than this season, in that we'll hopefully avoid the awful start where our defence couldn't cope. However, we can't expect the kind of results we got against City, Liverpool and Chelsea to be regular occurrences. You'd also have to expect Lambert to start to show his age in the upcoming seasons, so we might not have such a guaranteed source of goals. So with possible improvement from Shaw, Clyne, Yoshida and JRod, along with similar or better from Cork, Schneiderlin, Puncheon and Ramirez, plus the steadiness of Boruc from the start, but with a less dynamic Lambert, I'd hope to be looking for above 15th, but no higher than 7th, and that would be an incredible and unexpected achievement. In other words, I expect us to be fighting for places more consistently with teams like Fulham, Swansea and West Brom (as they are this season), but I wouldn't be surprised if we managed to disappoint. The truth is that we could be anywhere between relegation scrap and going in and out of Europa league positions. A good cup performance and middle table would be more than enough for me.