Korean 'War'

[Hatch]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21979127

 

How is this going to shape up?

 

Glad it's the other side of the world to be fair.

[scotty]

Just some rhetoric from the north korean nutjob. He's certainly inherited his old man's megalomaniac insanity, he sounds like comical ali.

[Barry Sanchez]

The time has come for China to play its part and actually bring the North to heel, they could do this in a few moments but again self interest (they dont want millions pouring into their Country) determines Asian/Pacific rim.

[capitalsaint]

http://castroller.com/podcasts/RtNews/3439638

[badgerx16]

BBC news say that the thousands of South Korean workers who work on industrial projects in the North have all crossed the border as usual.

[capitalsaint]

Seoul's weekend newspapers are paying massively less attention than global media to threats of war on the peninsula (@simonmundy)

[hypochondriac]

In a way I hope there is a short war (and it will be short.) can get rid of those at the top and release the 200000 people in labour camps.

[JackFrost]

In a way I hope there is a short war (and it will be short.) can get rid of those at the top and release the 200000 people in labour camps.

 

Sadly, that would make an already dire humanitarian situation even worse. You'd have a power vacuum, hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing to neighbouring countries plus a massive proportion of those 200,000 people in the labour camps would have absolutely nowhere to go.

 

There is this Hollywood movie-like train of thought in the western world which believes that removing a dictator makes people "free". It doesn't. What it actually does is create chaos and conflict because people naturally want different things and people can actually suffer more than they did whilst living under a dictator. (see Iraq post- Saddam) No one knows who is in charge day to day and an uncontrolled civilian population can be a dangerous thing.

 

It'd be a long long time before the Kim dynasty is toppled and the only way it'll be toppled is from within and/or with Chinese interference. A large scale invasion will never happen because of North Korea's weapons program. Also when the entire population has been brainwashed for decade upon decade and don't know anything different from believing the U.S. are the route of all evil and know nothing of the world outside North Korea (some prisoners don't know of a world outside the labour camp their in) I wouldn't have thought they'd welcome an invasion with open arms.

 

The fate of the North Korean people is one of the biggest forgotten tragedies in the modern world IMO. One day the Kim dynasty will fall but it may not happen in our lifetimes.

[Saint-scooby]

 

Check out the geezers medals at 1.43.

[aintforever]

The Yanks are not helping, great idea to drop some bombs from a stealth jet near their border. if North Korea had done a similar thing near the US there would be outrage.

 

The US is itching for a war, they should just f*ck off out of it.

[Saintandy666]

Any war would be won by the South, obviously. But the consequences would be devastating for both sides, with thousands, if not hundreds of thousands dead and infrastructure flattened.

[hypochondriac]

Sadly, that would make an already dire humanitarian situation even worse. You'd have a power vacuum, hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing to neighbouring countries plus a massive proportion of those 200,000 people in the labour camps would have absolutely nowhere to go.

 

There is this Hollywood movie-like train of thought in the western world which believes that removing a dictator makes people "free". It doesn't. What it actually does is create chaos and conflict because people naturally want different things and people can actually suffer more than they did whilst living under a dictator. (see Iraq post- Saddam) No one knows who is in charge day to day and an uncontrolled civilian population can be a dangerous thing.

 

It'd be a long long time before the Kim dynasty is toppled and the only way it'll be toppled is from within and/or with Chinese interference. A large scale invasion will never happen because of North Korea's weapons program. Also when the entire population has been brainwashed for decade upon decade and don't know anything different from believing the U.S. are the route of all evil and know nothing of the world outside North Korea (some prisoners don't know of a world outside the labour camp their in) I wouldn't have thought they'd welcome an invasion with open arms.

 

The fate of the North Korean people is one of the biggest forgotten tragedies in the modern world IMO. One day the Kim dynasty will fall but it may not happen in our lifetimes.

 

Well it has to end eventually doesn't it. I would persobally prefer this to end before they get proper nuclear capabilities.

[dubai_phil]

Any war would be won by the South, obviously. But the consequences would be devastating for both sides, with thousands, if not hundreds of thousands dead and infrastructure flattened.

 

Yeah, but the cynic would say that is exactly what the American Military/Industrial politico's would want. All those big fat rebuilding contracts.

Also what better way to force Obama into reversing the massive cost cutting and Military Budgets.

The huge "grey" support industry to the US Military (such as the likes of Dyncorp) are still smarting from the massive lay-offs and office closures.

 

Obviously I don't think a "Hollywood Movie" level conspiracy of that level actually exists, but it will be a thought in the back of the mind of some CEO's over there

[hypochondriac]

The Yanks are not helping, great idea to drop some bombs from a stealth jet near their border. if North Korea had done a similar thing near the US there would be outrage.

 

The US is itching for a war, they should just f*ck off out of it.

 

They were dummy munitions.

[skintsaint]

Cant see the 4th and 5th biggest armys in the world having a short war if it did kick off. Even with outdated tech the numbers the North have would stretch it out and the numbers dead on either side would be horrific at a guess.

[pap]

Interesting one for a number of reasons.

 

First, any examination of the Korean situation is impossible without an examination of the circumstances of the Korean War, which commenced in the 1950s and technically, hasn't yet ended. Back then, the chief proponents were China and the US. The US was pursuing its policy of containment ( stopping the proliferation of communist nations and movements ) at the time. The Chinese gave support to the North Koreans. As I recall, both sides decamped to either side of the 38th parallel and the conflict ended, even if the war did not.

 

I'm not suggesting that this conflict wasn't ever about Koreans; clearly it was. However, there was always an element of US vs China on this one. Thus it remains today. Large parts of the neoconservative administration went on record saying that they planned to prevent the emergence of a rival superpower following the end of the Cold War. Though they did not name China itself, it's clear that China is the country they meant. India may well have its century too, but the Chinese are surely next up to bat.

 

There are several people already talking of a new Cold War, and in the sphere of espionage and military advancement, it has been hotting up.

 

http://world.time.com/2012/11/28/what-if-there-was-a-cold-war-between-the-u-s-and-china/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57568659/china-vs-u.s.-online-spying-called-cold-war-for-the-next-generation/

http://www.worldcrunch.com/business-finance/new-cold-war-china-usa-economic-espionage-war-escalates/beijing-trade-cyber-boeing-property/c2s11203/#.UVf31Bz4m8M

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/05/02/are-we-headed-for-a-cold-war-with-china/no-one-wants-a-cold-war-between-the-us-and-china

[Saint Benali]

Whatever happens if it does kick off we will just follow the US without any of us having a say. Both sides need to grow up.

What is worrying is that all it takes is a mistake or an accident i.e someone gets killed and it will escalate fast.

[aintforever]

They were dummy munitions.

 

So if North Korea held military operations using dummy munitions on the US's doorstep they wouldn't see that as a hostile act?

 

Get real.

[Miltonroader07]

The Yanks are not helping, great idea to drop some bombs from a stealth jet near their border. if North Korea had done a similar thing near the US there would be outrage.

 

The US is itching for a war, they should just f*ck off out of it.

 

Good shout Methinks

[Lighthouse]

Cant see the 4th and 5th biggest armys in the world having a short war if it did kick off. Even with outdated tech the numbers the North have would stretch it out and the numbers dead on either side would be horrific at a guess.

 

I think the Iraqi army was about the 4th largest before Desert Storm but the coalition casualities were 'only' around 500. Not saying that has any bearing on a potential Korean conflict but the US military and it's allies will have massively superior equipment to their NK counterparts. The USAF could probably wipe out half the NK army before they could get a shot away.

 

This is unless NK has been understating the power of their army. Which is pretty much the complete opposite of what they've actually been doing.

[This Charming Man]

Whatever happens if it does kick off we will just follow the US without any of us having a say. Both sides need to grow up.

What is worrying is that all it takes is a mistake or an accident i.e someone gets killed and it will escalate fast.

It'll take more than that to kick it all off. Soldiers have been taking pot shots over the border at each other for decades now. Even in recent times NK has torpedoed a ROK ship and shelled islands belonging to ROK. Nothing will happen unless America give it the green light, which is highly unlikely when NK's main ally is China.

 

Most of this is just posturing. NK are making all the noises they think their people want to hear and that's probably more to do with the fact that they want to re-open negotiations as the latest UN sanctions are crippling them even further. Though obviously NK could never ask America back to the negotiating table outright as it would be a huge embarrassment to them. They keep up this rhetoric and eventually it will lead to negotiations where they can try and get some much needed aid.

[hypochondriac]

So if North Korea held military operations using dummy munitions on the US's doorstep they wouldn't see that as a hostile act?

 

Get real.

 

Ok then so let's just tell the USA to leave it then. Let north Korea continue. Great idea...

[buctootim]

There was a video piece on CNN by an American reporter who couldnt work out why the residents of Seoul were so calm and unconcerned, especially when they are only 40 miles from the demilitarised zone. "The north dont want war, they want money and food" appeared to be the answer. The more they sabre rattle (although they may have pushed too hard this time) the more aid they get.

[aintforever]

Ok then so let's just tell the USA to leave it then. Let north Korea continue. Great idea...

 

Continue what? Acting aggressively to American aggression?

[hypochondriac]

Continue what? Acting aggressively to American aggression?

 

Developing a nuclear bomb

[hypochondriac]

And I'm fully aware that the USA have a host of problems and are no saints but they are whiter than white compared to the north Korean regime. The day it falls will be a great day no matter if there is an expensive refugee situation to clear up.

[aintforever]

Developing a nuclear bomb

 

Try and see it from their point of view. The US has labelled them part of the Axis of evil and has a history of invading countries for regime change. They are being subjected to aggressive sanctions and have the US carrying out war games on their doorstep. Getting a nuclear deterrent makes perfect sense.

[hypochondriac]

Try and see it from their point of view. The US has labelled them part of the Axis of evil and has a history of invading countries for regime change. They are being subjected to aggressive sanctions and have the US carrying out war games on their doorstep. Getting a nuclear deterrent makes perfect sense.

 

Of course it makes sense to them I can totally see why they would want one. I just do not think they should be allowed to develop one and the us are conpletely justified in labelling them in the axis of evil. In the history of despicable regimes they are probably at the top. Even the nazis did not last for 60 years.

[pap]

The Axis of Evil is a stupid term uttered by a moronic President for the morons that buy into such terms, hypo obviously being one of them.

 

The term "Axis of Evil" is a genius little hook. First, it uses "Axis", which may convince your moron that these countries are like the Axis of the second world war. The second bit, "Evil", has the benefit of being understood by those ignorant of the names of the major powers in WW2.

 

Of course, the only groups more powerful than the Axis of Evil are the Decepticons, Legion of Doom (DC Comics or WWE version is fine) and the Sinister Six.

[Lighthouse]

Try and see it from their point of view. The US has labelled them part of the Axis of evil and has a history of invading countries for regime change. They are being subjected to aggressive sanctions and have the US carrying out war games on their doorstep. Getting a nuclear deterrent makes perfect sense.

 

The US don't just pick random countries to invade. If they go into a country it is usually run by a bunch of nutters, even if there are ulterior motives like oil on occasions.

 

Of course they want nuclear weapons but they should never in a million years be allowed to use them. All the current nuclear powers we can pretty much trust to behave themselves, with the possible exception of Pakistan if an unstable regime ever gets into power there. North Korea wouldn't. They are already threatening to Nuke America and the South and they haven't even built a functioning warhead yet.

 

If we have to go in to NK to prevent them building a fully functional, nuclear ICBM then so be it. The lives lost will be nothing compared to a nuke being launched at Seoul.

[hypochondriac]

The Axis of Evil is a stupid term uttered by a moronic President for the morons that buy into such terms, hypo obviously being one of them.

 

The term "Axis of Evil" is a genius little hook. First, it uses "Axis", which may convince your moron that these countries are like the Axis of the second world war. The second bit, "Evil", has the benefit of being understood by those ignorant of the names of the major powers in WW2.

 

Of course, the only groups more powerful than the Axis of Evil are the Decepticons, Legion of Doom (DC Comics or WWE version is fine) and the Sinister Six.

 

You clearly misunderstood what I was saying but that's normal for you. Whatever they decide to call them is utterly irrelevant and I agree that only morons would be incensed by the specific term axis of evil. I don't really give a toss what they described north Korea as. What they meant was that north Korea has an evil regime and is dangerous. That is my interpretation of the term at any rate and it is clearly the case.

[hypochondriac]

The US don't just pick random countries to invade. If they go into a country it is usually run by a bunch of nutters, even if there are ulterior motives like oil on occasions.

 

Of course they want nuclear weapons but they should never in a million years be allowed to use them. All the current nuclear powers we can pretty much trust to behave themselves, with the possible exception of Pakistan if an unstable regime ever gets into power there. North Korea wouldn't. They are already threatening to Nuke America and the South and they haven't even built a functioning warhead yet.

 

If we have to go in to NK to prevent them building a fully functional, nuclear ICBM then so be it. The lives lost will be nothing compared to a nuke being launched at Seoul.

 

You are obviously quite correct.

[aintforever]

The US don't just pick random countries to invade. If they go into a country it is usually run by a bunch of nutters, even if there are ulterior motives like oil on occasions.

 

Of course they want nuclear weapons but they should never in a million years be allowed to use them. All the current nuclear powers we can pretty much trust to behave themselves, with the possible exception of Pakistan if an unstable regime ever gets into power there. North Korea wouldn't. They are already threatening to Nuke America and the South and they haven't even built a functioning warhead yet.

 

If we have to go in to NK to prevent them building a fully functional, nuclear ICBM then so be it. The lives lost will be nothing compared to a nuke being launched at Seoul.

 

Great idea, instead of trying to pacify the situation and get along with North Korea we could start a war and kill hundreds of thousands just in case they may one day try to nuke Soeul. They could probably flatten Seoul in hours with artillery anyway but obviously don't because like launching a nuke, it would be suicidal.

 

If there is a war with NK then there would be only one winner, the usual one - the US arms industry.

[hypochondriac]

Great idea, instead of trying to pacify the situation and get along with North Korea we could start a war and kill hundreds of thousands just in case they may one day try to nuke Soeul. They could probably flatten Seoul in hours with artillery anyway but obviously don't because like launching a nuke, it would be suicidal.

 

If there is a war with NK then there would be only one winner, the usual one - the US arms industry.

 

How do you propose that the USA pacify and 'get along' with a nuclear armed north Korea? Do you understand what they are like?

[This Charming Man]

With NK threatening to resume work at one of their main nuclear plants, it's quiet clear they're after more aid as work only stopped there after they agreed to close it down in return for food aid. Imagine they'll be hoping for something similar this time.

[hypochondriac]

With NK threatening to resume work at one of their main nuclear plants, it's quiet clear they're after more aid as work only stopped there after they agreed to close it down in return for food aid. Imagine they'll be hoping for something similar this time.

 

Yep and I hope they don't get it. They should get further sanctions and more isolation.

[This Charming Man]

Yep and I hope they don't get it. They should get further sanctions and more isolation.

 

Then you're only punishing the people who you think we should risk our soldiers lives to liberate.

[SuperMikey]

[This Charming Man]

Mikey, this is a serious political debate on current issues and you're posting immature drivel like that? Sort it out.

[SuperMikey]

Mikey, this is a serious political debate on current issues and you're posting immature drivel like that? Sort it out.

 

Just forget I was ever here.

[hypochondriac]

Then you're only punishing the people who you think we should risk our soldiers lives to liberate.

 

In the short term yes. If China stopped their aid then North Korea would fall within a few months. North Korea won't allow anyone in to monitor the aid giving anyway so the majority of it ends up on the black market or given to the army.

[hypochondriac]

Great idea, instead of trying to pacify the situation and get along with North Korea we could start a war and kill hundreds of thousands just in case they may one day try to nuke Soeul. They could probably flatten Seoul in hours with artillery anyway but obviously don't because like launching a nuke, it would be suicidal.

 

If there is a war with NK then there would be only one winner, the usual one - the US arms industry.

 

Aintforever would still be interested in your response.

[scotty]

Then you're only punishing the people who you think we should risk our soldiers lives to liberate.

 

There is a very fine line between liberation and invasion. We in the west tend to "liberate" countries only when we have a direct economic interest in doing so. Other countries, naturally, are the ones who invade, and any citizens of the countries we liberate who happen to disagree with their enforced liberation are simply insurgents and therefore the enemy. Just ask Bush or Blair, they'll confirm it.

[TopGun]

There is a very fine line between liberation and invasion. We in the west tend to "liberate" countries only when we have a direct economic interest in doing so. Other countries, naturally, are the ones who invade, and any citizens of the countries we liberate who happen to disagree with their enforced liberation are simply insurgents and therefore the enemy. Just ask Bush or Blair, they'll confirm it.

 

Nevertheless, in a utilitarian stance, you can't allow a maverick nation to threaten the existence of many more people elsewhere.

[hypochondriac]

There is a very fine line between liberation and invasion. We in the west tend to "liberate" countries only when we have a direct economic interest in doing so. Other countries, naturally, are the ones who invade, and any citizens of the countries we liberate who happen to disagree with their enforced liberation are simply insurgents and therefore the enemy. Just ask Bush or Blair, they'll confirm it.

 

So if we went into North Korea and the people acted violently towards us (because they have been indoctrinated to do so since birth), what would you class them as?

[This Charming Man]

In the short term yes. If China stopped their aid then North Korea would fall within a few months. North Korea won't allow anyone in to monitor the aid giving anyway so the majority of it ends up on the black market or given to the army.

 

China are bound by UN Sanctions as well. NK knows it's in trouble and these latest sanctions are set to tip it over the edge - hence the drivel they keep spouting on a daily basis.

 

We know they don't want a war, they know we don't - it would be far too messy for the West. The only thing that will happen in the end is more aid and hopefully part of the deal will be independent monitors can go in to oversea the distribution. As you said, most of it is reserved for the Army and the elite.

[hypochondriac]

China are bound by UN Sanctions as well. NK knows it's in trouble and these latest sanctions are set to tip it over the edge - hence the drivel they keep spouting on a daily basis.

 

We know they don't want a war, they know we don't - it would be far too messy for the West. The only thing that will happen in the end is more aid and hopefully part of the deal will be independent monitors can go in to oversea the distribution. As you said, most of it is reserved for the Army and the elite.

 

There have been reports of grain with un signs on the bags being openly sold on the black market over there. Their only hope of further aid is by halting their nuclear development and this reportedly will not happen. I think it will be interesting to see what they do.

[SaintRichmond]

Any war would be won by the South, obviously. But the consequences would be devastating for both sides, with thousands, if not hundreds of thousands dead and infrastructure flattened.

 

I don't think so

 

If push came to shove, China would intervene, and that would be the start of China taking over as Numero Uno

[hypochondriac]

i don't think so

 

if push came to shove, china would intervene, and that would be the start of china taking over as numero uno

 

walob.

[Saintandy666]

I don't think so

 

If push came to shove, China would intervene, and that would be the start of China taking over as Numero Uno

 

I disagree. Maybe in a generation or so, but China still has a lot of growing and developing to do that would be put at great risk if they intervened against a US-led invasion (especially if post missile hit on US territory). War is not in China's interests at the moment, it's busy taking over the world economically.