After 8 games, what are your thoughts...

[melmacian_saint]

I still keep going back in my mind to that Fulham game in October as the one that triggered the ejection button. Just as we started to settle as a team and defensively as well, and were adjusting.

 

We scored from a corner, and enjoyed a controlled half from then on. Our defensive line rising in confidence was actually at its lowest for most of the game with Richardson stretched off injured early on, Clyne out of the team altogether and Hooiveld (not even Yoshida) covering at RB at least until half-time. Then in the 2nd half, because Fulham hadn't been threatning from the off as expected (yet forced Gazza to an impressive save) and instead of going for the 2nd goal, around the hour mark, Adkins decided to remove both our main offensive threats in Puncheon first and then Lambert for Guly and Chaplow, leaving Rodriguez quite lonely at CF. This backfired as I hadn't seen a tactical decision do it in a long time. The pressure on their defensive unit that was applied by Lambert's presence and Puncheon's ability to run at them vanished, and their defensive units became less worried about duties at the back and all of a sudden they had numbers running at our weakened and still shaken defense.

 

In just 15 minutes we were almost knocked out of a game we could've won without question as it stood when those decisions were poorly made, and were lucky to get a draw at the end. You do those subs at the 80th minute, not with 30 minutes to go.

 

I also think Cortese didn't enjoy the Anfield love-in that Adkins talked about during the times of our visit there in what turned out to be a rather dull and unfocused performance up there, nor did he enjoy our lack of edge against Sunderland at home after a break.

 

Looking at it, it seems that the reasons favouring Nigel's case are more personal/emotional than necessarily rational/factual. Maybe the fact the results have been so similar in such a short period from the change just shows that perhaps Adkins was underperforming with the goods he had in store.

[washsaint]

Jeez....cannot believe how history is being "airbrushed". Adkins was an outstanding manager and will continue to be an outstanding manager. he was treated appallingly, and how on earth anyone can have the gall to say we are a much better side with MP and Adkins underperformed is beyond me. MP has been adequate to date....no better, no worse. And certainly not an upgrade on Adkins as it stands.

[Dr Who?]

Stunning at times, awful at others. This can be in the same game. I have no idea what we are going to do next.

 

Some of the best football I have seen in the second half at Wigan, and sounded and looked like the best football for a long time against Liverpool, and pretty good against Man U. QPR was terrible, and the first half against Wigan was terrible.

 

Bit of a mixed bag, but in general better against the top/big names sides. Man U, Everton, Liverpool, man city. Bring on Chelsea!

[Turkish]

They may win less than 50%, but that number is significantly higher than the proportion they lose...

 

From the stats he shows if you have more shots on goal you will (on average) win 27% more of the games than if you have less shots.

 

In essence, if you have more shots on goal than the opposition you have a 27% higher chance of winning the game than if you had less shots than the opposition.

 

He quite clearly stated on the other thread that you would "win more games" and we are playing "much better" for the simple reason that he had had more shots at goal than the opposition. Yet we had won one in six at the time and his own stats prove that overall you will win less than halves the games you play, so you don't win more games as he was making out.

[pap]

Jeez....cannot believe how history is being "airbrushed". Adkins was an outstanding manager and will continue to be an outstanding manager. he was treated appallingly, and how on earth anyone can have the gall to say we are a much better side with MP and Adkins underperformed is beyond me. MP has been adequate to date....no better, no worse. And certainly not an upgrade on Adkins as it stands.

 

No history is being airbrushed. Nige did a great job in achieving back to back promotions, especially the storming start to the beginning of last season. He really had no fear of any team in the Championship, and it showed. We were mullering fancied teams left, right and centre.

 

I don't agree that he was treated appallingly. He knew he was going at the end of last season. As things went, he got half a season to strut his stuff in the Premiership, which is more than enough time. If he'd have repeated the barnstorming heroics of the Championship season, he'd still be here and this debate wouldn't exist. It didn't happen, and for a long time, didn't look like it was going to happen. The decision to shift Nige off his managerial coil was taken during our patch of bad form. So yeah, the timing sucked with the turnaround in run in form, but NC might not have felt that this was sustainable (remember the 0-1 robbery at Villa Park?).

 

As for the upgrade status, it's bound to be a matter of opinion. I think MP will turn into a better Premier Manager than Adkins, largely because he had what NA had last year; no fear of the opposition. FWIW, I think NA will get over that. He went straight back down with S****horpe, went back up. Our race into 2nd place at the end of League One was immense, especially with Huddersfield breathing down our necks, but NA kept them at bay. MP seems to have a better footballing philosophy which is gaining us a lot of respect. I listen to a lot of football podcasts. Many of them had us marked as doomed at the start of the season. Now they're saying we're too good to go down.

 

NA is undoubtedly a master of promotions. The next time he brings a team up, and I'm sure it'll be soon, he'll fare better. Wasn't to be this time around. Combination of uncertainty in himself, uncertainty over his situation, the usual media rabble about the short life expectancy of new Premier League managers - but mostly Brian, it was results.

[Badger]

I'm reasonably content with MP as a successor to NA, although still don't believe the change was necessary, or has been a major improvement.

 

There are many comments on this thread that I agree with, most recently this one :

 

Jeez....cannot believe how history is being "airbrushed". Adkins was an outstanding manager and will continue to be an outstanding manager. he was treated appallingly, and how on earth anyone can have the gall to say we are a much better side with MP and Adkins underperformed is beyond me. MP has been adequate to date....no better, no worse. And certainly not an upgrade on Adkins as it stands.

 

We had seemed to turn a corner, and were heading in the right direction under NA, both the decision , and timing were ridiculous.

 

MP in some ways looks impressive in his approach, and high level pressing up the field etc, but as others have pointed out 2 wins in 8, is not a good return.

 

To those looking forward to progress under MP, or even next season with him, I'd say don't get too excited, as it remains to be seen how long MP will remain here - I have my doubts on that one.

 

This is purely hypothetical, and we will never know, but over a 3-5 year period I feel we would progress further with NA being allowed to build, rather than a change in January 2013, and then a couple of times more in the next 3-4 years when NC feels the need.

[Fowllyd]

He quite clearly stated on the other thread that you would "win more games" and we are playing "much better" for the simple reason that he had had more shots at goal than the opposition. Yet we had won one in six at the time and his own stats prove that overall you will win less than halves the games you play, so you don't win more games as he was making out.

 

I have to ask: do you genuinely not see the difference between "winning more games" and "winning more than half the games you play"? You seem to be treating the two as having identical meanings, when in fact they do not.

[rpb]

I

MP in some ways looks impressive in his approach, and high level pressing up the field etc, but as others have pointed out 2 wins in 8, is not a good return.

 

There is also the 'evidence of your eyes' to consider and my eyes tell me that we are now a more exciting team with a lot of potential to improve further.

[Saint Thomas]

After 7 games, I thought we'd made a terrible mistake with the change. After 8 - I still feel we've taken an unnecessary risk that has yet to show signs of paying off. I thought both the results and performances were looking better under NA and how we've played under MP against the 'weaker' teams really worries me. I felt far more optimistic and happy with the club under NA - I'd love to be proved wrong, but I do not think MP is a better manager and I feel we took a stupid risk changing mid-season - if we stay up, I feel it will be despite this, not because of it. Maybe I'm being overly negative though, and of course I hope I am!

[Turkish]

There is also the 'evidence of your eyes' to consider and my eyes tell me that we are now a more exciting team with a lot of potential to improve further.

 

That maybe so, but he wasn't using that evidence, just shots at goal. That and only that was the evidence used to attempt to prove we are playing much better.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

He quite clearly stated on the other thread that you would "win more games" and we are playing "much better" for the simple reason that he had had more shots at goal than the opposition. Yet we had won one in six at the time and his own stats prove that overall you will win less than halves the games you play, so you don't win more games as he was making out.

 

Win more games than what though? What's the measure?

[Olallana]

That maybe so, but he wasn't using that evidence, just shots at goal. That and only that was the evidence used to attempt to prove we are playing much better.

 

I´m flattered, you think he was talking about me.....getting a bit obsessed there, aren´t you?

Seeing things that are not there etc...

[Turkish]

Win more games than what though? What's the measure?

 

Than you don't, obviously.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Than you don't, obviously.

 

That's not obvious but if so, yes, you are right.

[SaintSteve]

After 7 games, I thought we'd made a terrible mistake with the change. After 8 - I still feel we've taken an unnecessary risk that has yet to show signs of paying off. I thought both the results and performances were looking better under NA and how we've played under MP against the 'weaker' teams really worries me. I felt far more optimistic and happy with the club under NA - I'd love to be proved wrong, but I do not think MP is a better manager and I feel we took a stupid risk changing mid-season - if we stay up, I feel it will be despite this, not because of it. Maybe I'm being overly negative though, and of course I hope I am!

 

Have you watched us under MP ? - we are playing far better football, the results will improve.

Many of our players are better under MP.. e.g. Schneiderlin, Rodriques.. for next season MP will bring in players more adept to his style and we will go onwards and upwards... there you are.. a positive outlook.

[Wes Tender]

It's really too early to form a vaild opinion either way in my opinion. The way I see it hasn't changed, as originally my reaction was that Adkins had us in 15th position when he departed, so unless Pochettino gets us higher than that, what was the point in bringing him in? Currently, we are a position lower.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

It's really too early to form a vaild opinion either way in my opinion. The way I see it hasn't changed, as originally my reaction was that Adkins had us in 15th position when he departed, so unless Pochettino gets us higher than that, what was the point in bringing him in? Currently, we are a position lower.

 

I would say it's more about points per game isn't it as you can't judge him on how other teams get on...

[Wes Tender]

I would say it's more about points per game isn't it as you can't judge him on how other teams get on...

 

Why judge it on points per game when Adkins total would be based on a considerably longer period? Also, that would not take into account the difficult fixture start he had and the notably significant absence of Cork and the increasing development of the prowess of Shaw, to introduce two factors affecting him but not Pochettino.

 

Anyway, surely league position also takes into account how other teams get on, doesn't it?

 

If you are to judge it on points per game, then the fairest way of doing that would be to compare Adkins last 8 games against Pochhettinos first eight.

 

On that basis, Adkins had 2 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses, therefore 10 points, whereas Pochettino had 2 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses, a total 9 points.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Why judge it on points per game when Adkins total would be based on a considerably longer period? Also, that would not take into account the difficult fixture start he had and the notably significant absence of Cork and the increasing development of the prowess of Shaw, to introduce two factors affecting him but not Pochettino.

 

Anyway, surely league position also takes into account how other teams get on, doesn't it?

 

If you are to judge it on points per game, then the fairest way of doing that would be to compare Adkins last 8 games against Pochhettinos first eight.

 

On that basis, Adkins had 2 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses, therefore 10 points, whereas Pochettino had 2 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses, a total 9 points.

 

I don't disagree. However, I do believe that Poch took on a new team and did comparably with harder games...

[Turkish]

I would say it's more about points per game isn't it as you can't judge him on how other teams get on...

 

Isn't it about shots at goal?

[Wes Tender]

I don't disagree. However, I do believe that Poch took on a new team and did comparably with harder games...

 

Were his games harder? OK, Pochettino had Everton, United, City and Liverpool, but Adkins had Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. At the bottom of the table, Pochettino had Wigan and QPR, whereas Adkins had Reading and Villa. Credit to Pochettino for winning those matches against City and Liverpool, whereas Adkins drew against Arsenal and Chelsea, but Pochettino drew and lost against those two bottom teams, whereas Adkins beat Reading and Villa.

 

Granted though that despite Pochettino's disadvantage in coming in fresh to a new team and with the language and cultural difficulties, there wasn't much to separate the results between those 8 games each.

[Brussels Saint]

It's really too early to form a vaild opinion either way in my opinion. The way I see it hasn't changed, as originally my reaction was that Adkins had us in 15th position when he departed, so unless Pochettino gets us higher than that, what was the point in bringing him in? Currently, we are a position lower.

 

Honestly, I don't think its about this season, it was about planning for the next. MP has more preparation with the team with half a season and full pre-season rather than the upheaval of manager change in the summer.

I'm sure NC does not care if we come 15th or 17th this season, its about preparation for the next stage.

The more I think about it, I don't think NA was ever in the frame seriously for the long term in the prem, his job was simply to get us up.

The risk taken of course is relegation due to a mid season change and this is where NC gets judged. We go down and it was a monumentally bad decision, stay up and it was the right one. We will only know in a few weeks!

[Bucks Saint]

I don't disagree. However, I do believe that Poch took on a new team and did comparably with harder games...

 

Repeating my reply to you on the MYTH thread (one of the threads I said was a duplicate of this one):

 

When MP took over it was because he was better than NA. For him, the players are no longer finding their feet in the PL, there are not any new players bedding in with their team mates or in a new country, and they are not struggling (as much) with a new language. All they are dealing with is a new (apparently better) management team, with new (better) ideas, new (better) formations, and new (better) tactics. oh, and limited English.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Repeating my reply to you on the MYTH thread (one of the threads I said was a duplicate of this one):

 

When MP took over it was because he was better than NA. For him, the players are no longer finding their feet in the PL, there are not any new players bedding in with their team mates or in a new country, and they are not struggling (as much) with a new language. All they are dealing with is a new (apparently better) management team, with new (better) ideas, new (better) formations, and new (better) tactics. oh, and limited English.

 

You're so impatient. I can't believe you'd expect such a quick return on such difficult games.

 

As we've discussed before, Cortese was going to make the change anyway. I don't think anyone agreed with the timing or the manner. However, if The Sheriff can get results against difficult teams coming into a new league with new players, then I think in the long run he will be an upgrade. Be excited to see him with a whole Summer under his belt, I am sure he will be more succesful through the first 10 games than Adkins was...

[Give it to Ron]

The jury is still out for me...QPR destroyed a lot of my confidence in Pochettino, terrible tactics

and never addressed what was so obvious.

I do think we have improved some players like Morgan gets forward far more and we are more

progressive rather than backwards and sideways under Nige.

The timing still wrankles and the lack of respect in the programme etc. I was told by a very good source

Nige knew 5-6 weeks before it happened that he was out and it was going to be an Italian manager.

 

The question earlier from Turkish about when did you realise Nige...Fulham at home when he took off Lambert and didnt learn from his mistake aganst Man Utd...also confirmed at Fulham away they were abysmal our tactics were terrible and we got a lucky draw when it was a game we should of won.

[The9]

Can't really see that Pochettino has made all that much difference in terms of results, and we've traded caginess and selective forays into attack for a pressing tactic we seem incapable of implementing more than half the time. I don't see us in danger of relegation but I'm not really sure how Pochettino is a step up without being supported by significant investment in "better players", which seems against Cortese's vision for the academy and in practical terms from the ongoing contract extension/loyalty policy.

 

Which is not to say he might not start chucking £15m a time at players in the summer, rather than "merely" twice breaking the club record fee.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Anybody changed their opinion now? Pochettino now more succesful than Adkins percieved best run of the season. 12 points in 9 games, good enough for 51 points over a season.

[Glasgow_Saint]

I will judge him next season..... This season's success is down to Nigel imho

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I will judge him next season..... This season's success is down to Nigel imho

 

Can't be gracious enough to give credit to the foreign guy huh? No surpises.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Can't be gracious enough to give credit to the foreign guy huh? No surpises.

 

He has done well to continue Nigel's good work.

[Olallana]

I will stay quiet on threads like this and let results speak for themself

[Turkish]

I will stay quiet on threads like this and let results speak for themself

 

I thought Results don't matter, its shots at goal that do.

[Turkish]

Anybody changed their opinion now? Pochettino now more succesful than Adkins percieved best run of the season. 12 points in 9 games, good enough for 51 points over a season.

 

Now we are winning games and have recorded superb back to back wins, I agree we are playing better.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I will stay quiet on threads like this and let results speak for themself

 

It is very funny isn't it. They were taking such pleasure in us losing.

[Turkish]

It is very funny isn't it. They were taking such pleasure in us losing.

 

Who was taking pleasure in us losing?

[Olallana]

It is very funny isn't it. They were taking such pleasure in us losing.

 

Well it was there for a taking I guess... could not resist it, I´m ashamed to say.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Who was taking pleasure in us losing?

 

There were a number of gloating threads about Poch's first few games. Not naming names as they know who they are. Not you though...

[Red]

Who was taking pleasure in us losing?

 

Do you have to be a k n o b all the time? Take a day off, you might surprise yourself!

 

To others - yes I know I shouldn't bite to a constant troll, but honestly if you can't be happy today ...............

[Turkish]

Do you have to be a k n o b all the time? Take a day off, you might surprise yourself!

 

To others - yes I know I shouldn't bite to a constant troll, but honestly if you can't be happy today ...............

 

Why are you getting upset for? I'm asking him a simple question. He said people were taking pleasure in us losing, I asked who these people were. If you can't control your temper when people ask perfectly reasonable questions, on an internet forum, which by the way is what a forum is for, then maybe its you who should take a day off. I'm very happy BTW, unlike you, my angry little chum.

Edited 30 March, 2013 by Turkish

[Turkish]

There were a number of gloating threads about Poch's first few games. Not naming names as they know who they are. Not you though...

 

Fair enough, glad you managed to control yourself when replying unlike our friend above.

[Wiggles31]

MP has been inspired appointment. Keep this up and we'll struggle to keep him.

[Turkish]

MP has been inspired appointment. Keep this up and we'll struggle to keep him.

 

Again it comes down to the same scenario as players. Where he is back financially and doesn't seen clubs like Newcastle as a step up. The only ones that are are the very top teams.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Fair enough, glad you managed to control yourself when replying unlike our friend above.

 

We all get a bit like that sometimes, we all have our posters that...ahem...grind our gears shall we say.

[Turkish]

We all get a bit like that sometimes, we all have our posters that...ahem...grind our gears shall we say.

 

I don't.

[Bucks Saint]

MP has been inspired appointment. Keep this up and we'll struggle to keep him.

 

Steady now. I am on the beers now but clearly you have been for several hours

[Webby]

Well, after 9 games, we have 12 points under MP. Average that out over 38 games and you have a smidge over 50 points. Easily top 10.

[Wiggles31]

Steady now. I am on the beers now but clearly you have been for several hours

 

Surely he has been an inspired appointment?

[Glasgow_Saint]

I don't.

 

Me neither

[Red]

I don't.

 

Well done Mr. Perfect! Mr. Self-delusionist might be more apt? Whatever, I am not angry, upset, or failing to control my temper, in fact I am extremely happy with the result and plans for this evening and rest of the extended weekend. I just fail to understand why a minority of negatively minded trolls hijack every thread and ruin the enjoyment of the majority - particularly on a very happy day??

 

Only reason I am not a full member and post more regularly, which no doubt you are glad about that no doubt, is the constant crap on this site. Mods are failing miserably, unless they want less and less people to use this forum?

 

I will take your advice and take not only the day off, but the rest of the weekend, and maybe more! Keep trolling!

[Turkish]

Well done Mr. Perfect! Mr. Self-delusionist might be more apt? Whatever, I am not angry, upset, or failing to control my temper, in fact I am extremely happy with the result and plans for this evening and rest of the extended weekend. I just fail to understand why a minority of negatively minded trolls hijack every thread and ruin the enjoyment of the majority - particularly on a very happy day??

 

Only reason I am not a full member and post more regularly, which no doubt you are glad about that no doubt, is the constant crap on this site. Mods are failing miserably, unless they want less and less people to use this forum?

 

I will take your advice and take not only the day off, but the rest of the weekend, and maybe more! Keep trolling!

 

Torrents of abuse at posters and yet you claim to be happy, I'd hate to see you angry princess. Please explain how asking someone a perfectly valid question is trolling.