The Budget 2013 thread

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Tax breaks? What tax breaks are these? Please let me know so that I might take advantage of them if ever I am fortunate enough to retire.

 

Older people get free Tv licences, winter fuel allowance, free buss passes (it costs me £10 a day to get to/from work).

 

Of course you aren't going to want to see things impact you, that's natural, as I don't either. But, it really is the young that are shouldering the burden here. We are going to work for far long than your generation, I can easily see the retirement age being at least 71/72 by the time I get there. We are also going to be paying a far greater percentage of our earnings, to receive significantly smaller pension payments.

 

We are quite simply paying for current pensioners as well as our own. Whilst also being blamed for the welfare bill, despite the fact that care and pension make of up the majority of the welfare bill, far outweighing JSA & housing benefits - oh which they are also withdrawing from under 25s. This coupled with a lack of social housing, affordable housing and a general lack of house production over the past 20-25 years means it is only going to get harder for us to afford houses.

[SuperMikey]

As somebody who's currently on less than £10k a year, the 0% income tax is very welcome news.

 

Who's willing to lay money on those growth forecasts being all wrong?

[buctootim]

Tax breaks? What tax breaks are these? Please let me know so that I might take advantage of them if ever I am fortunate enough to retire.

 

The higher personal tax free threshold and the absence of a requirement to pay NI , those very substantial tax breaks.

[bridge too far]

The higher personal tax free threshold and the absence of a requirement to pay NI , those very substantial tax breaks.

 

And this kicks in as soon as you reach pensionable age, even if you're still working!

[eurosaint]

Older people get free Tv licences, winter fuel allowance, free buss passes (it costs me £10 a day to get to/from work).

 

Of course you aren't going to want to see things impact you, that's natural, as I don't either. But, it really is the young that are shouldering the burden here. We are going to work for far long than your generation, I can easily see the retirement age being at least 71/72 by the time I get there. We are also going to be paying a far greater percentage of our earnings, to receive significantly smaller pension payments.

 

We are quite simply paying for current pensioners as well as our own. Whilst also being blamed for the welfare bill, despite the fact that care and pension make of up the majority of the welfare bill, far outweighing JSA & housing benefits - oh which they are also withdrawing from under 25s. This coupled with a lack of social housing, affordable housing and a general lack of house production over the past 20-25 years means it is only going to get harder for us to afford houses.

 

You have to be over 75 to get a free TV license http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/easy-read/free-licence-for-the-over-75s-ea16

Bus passes are only usable outside peak hours and only charged if used, so if you don't use it then there is no cost to the government (this means that the better-off receive no benefit!)!

TBF, the winter fuel allowance is a joke and should be abolished for all but the frail and most vulnerable !

 

I can categorically assure you that by the time I start collecting my state pension later this year, my tax contributions over 40 odd working years will amount to a hundred times more than I receive (even if I live for another 20 odd years!) and I will STILL pay tax on this at the same rate as working people !!

Your generation can also expect to inherit so much more (not for everybody, I accept!) than the previous one !

I do not accept the argument that today's young people are paying for existing pensions when they were clearly self-funded over the last few decades !!

[buctootim]

I do not accept the argument that today's young people are paying for existing pensions when they were clearly self-funded over the last few decades !!

 

The fact is the government benefits system has alweays been pay as go. Your contributions funded the benefits paid to pensioners alive when you were working. Now you are retiring your pension will be funded by younger people at work now. The higher your benefits, the more a young person has to pay in tax. Its not necessarily iniquitable, but it is reality. And your claim about paying in 100 times more than you will recive back is just hyperbole and nonsense

[saint si]

As somebody who's currently on less than £10k a year, the 0% income tax is very welcome news.

 

Well the current income tax threshold this year is £8,105 - and next year was proposed to be £9,440 anyway. So whether you will see any benefit at all depends how much under 10k you are earning. In fact, perversely, someone earning £8k will get no benefit from this change, whereas someone earning £80k will benefit by a few hundred quid.

 

I can categorically assure you that by the time I start collecting my state pension later this year, my tax contributions over 40 odd working years will amount to a hundred times more than I receive (even if I live for another 20 odd years!) and I will STILL pay tax on this at the same rate as working people !!

 

Your taxes for those 40 years were not just going in to your own personal pension fund, I assume you know that?

 

You have had access to education, healthcare, policing, justice, roads, and numerous other public services and regulatory systems - plus being defended from foreign threats (as a deterrent more than anything) and terrorism for most of your life, and not to mention the safety net that was there in case you fell on hard times or got sick or injured.

 

I do not accept the argument that today's young people are paying for existing pensions when they were clearly self-funded over the last few decades !

 

Source?

[Doctoroncall]

As somebody who's currently on less than £10k a year, the 0% income tax is very welcome news.

 

Who's willing to lay money on those growth forecasts being all wrong?

 

Out of interest, can you claim any credits from having such a low wage?

[Tokyo-Saint]

Yeah Wonga will still give you credit.

[The Cat]

Wasn't the under £10k 0% Income Tax thing a Lib Dem policy that the Tories honoured for them so they could go about shafting public sector workers?

[aintforever]

The income tax threshold should be raised higher than 10K, we need to encourage people to take low paid jobs instead of sitting around on benefits. Plus low paid people spend all their money so it helps growth. Give a millionaire a tax break and it just sits in some account somewhere doing nothing.

[rshephard3]

Wasn't the under £10k 0% Income Tax thing a Lib Dem policy that the Tories honoured for them so they could go about shafting public sector workers?

 

Yes. The shafting began when rational people realised how great public sector pensions and retirement ages were compared to most working in the private sector in the 21st century.

[bridge too far]

Yes. The shafting began when rational people realised how great public sector pensions and retirement ages were compared to most working in the private sector in the 21st century.

 

(Yawn) same old, same old. I've lost count of the number of times we've debated public sector pensions and the misinformation about a) the amount the average public sector worker receives in pension and b) the fact that the majority of public sector workers can't now receive pensions until retirement age - an exception being, for example, a nurse who retires early with a buggered back on health grounds. The average public sector pension is about £4k a year.

[solentstars]

Interesting how this will play out electorally with heartland tories. This is a bonus for low earners but the top-rate band has been lowered hitting middle classes who presumably the Tories see as their target market. Meanwhile the 50% rate has been reduced to 45%.....

thats because takeing low earners out of tax was a lib dem policy which i think was a great move .

[pap]

Credit where due. I like the new build discount. Anything that stimulates the creation of new supply is a good thing.

[JackFrost]

I watched the budget and the response earlier.

 

Ed Miliband is just useless.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I watched the budget and the response earlier.

 

Ed Miliband is just useless.

 

he really is.

 

this has to be one of the most unpopular govts for a very long time, not to mention incompetent. yet he is unable to ever take advantage.

 

this whole, lets bash the millionaires shtick might be slightly more believable if he wasn't one himself. plus that stunt he pulled today "hands up if you benefit from the tax cut" he has pulled at least twice before. how stupid does he think we are?

 

the labour party are frankly a joke. they claim they will boost growth, whilst cutting borrowing and the deficit, yet cry about every cut that is made. I love how they claim they were orchestrators of this 'economic miracle' Gordon presided over (ie borrow borrow borrow to manufacture jobs in the public sector which offer little in terms of value for money), then claim when it all went tits up there was nothing that they could do, and now whilst the world economy is still struggling its all the Tories fault. massive megalolz.

 

the fact he isn't streaking away in the polls show just how poor he is. wouldn't be remotely surprised if he doesn't make it to the election.

 

shame the guys in charge are just as nodding useless and pathetic really.

[eurosaint]

The fact is the government benefits system has alweays been pay as go. Your contributions funded the benefits paid to pensioners alive when you were working. Now you are retiring your pension will be funded by younger people at work now. The higher your benefits, the more a young person has to pay in tax. Its not necessarily iniquitable, but it is reality. And your claim about paying in 100 times more than you will recive back is just hyperbole and nonsense

 

A very bold statement considering you have no idea of my personal situation !

I suppose that it is too much to expect a government which takes my money to invest it wisely and help me in the future ?

Ps. I'm still paying tax on my private pension and investments etc.. so am not completely dependent on the charity of working youngsters today !!

[Viking Warrior]

Balls and millipratt really get on my tits . It was funny hearing the speaker tell the labour mob to shut up as he couldn't hear their motivational and dynamic leader speak . I just wish the politicians would work together trying to get this country back on its feet this school playground **** from the opposition is pathetic . After all it was labour that got us I to this mess . Oh had they not forgotten it was their previous leader who took us to an illegal war . By the way I can't stand Cameron . The only time I ever liked a labour mp . Was the late john smith . Shame he died

[Chez]

The average public sector pension is about £4k a year.

is that a fair representation of what public sectors actualloy get or does that figure include public sector workers that peehaps just worked for a few years so weren't entitled to a full payout tereby bringing the average pension amount down considerably?

[bridge too far]

is that a fair representation of what public sectors actualloy get or does that figure include public sector workers that peehaps just worked for a few years so weren't entitled to a full payout tereby bringing the average pension amount down considerably?

 

The pension used to be calculated on 1/80 final salary x years of service. Probably the majority of public sector workers are female returners after having children / lower paid (e.g. cleaning, cooking). I had a senior management job with the NHS but, because of family duties, didn't get that many years in so my pension is pretty meagre.

 

Of course there are the highly paid Chief Executives, doctors, engineers etc who do have big pensions but, since £4K is the average it makes you realise that there are many retirees getting substantially less than the average.

 

The rules have changed now to a 'career average' basis rather than final salary.

 

Of course we all pay indirectly for the huge pensions some in the private sector get because they get top rate tax relief on their contributions and we also buy their goods / services. I was reading earlier this evening about the massive bonuses paid to some of the Barclays bosses http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21867735

[Chez]

Your generation can also expect to inherit so much more (not for everybody, I accept!) than the previous one !

can you explain what you mean. All I can see my generation inheriting is a huge national debt.

[rshephard3]

(Yawn) same old, same old. I've lost count of the number of times we've debated public sector pensions and the misinformation about a) the amount the average public sector worker receives in pension and b) the fact that the majority of public sector workers can't now receive pensions until retirement age - an exception being, for example, a nurse who retires early with a buggered back on health grounds. The average public sector pension is about £4k a year.

 

'Some 87% of public sector employees are currently paying into a salary-linked pension scheme, compared with 12% of private sector employees.

 

Many of the salary-linked pension schemes in the private sector have been shut by employers.'

 

The above is taken from a BBC article less than a year old. When the private sector found it necessary to alter pension schemes so my generation (I'm 26) would never receive anywhere near the terms we would have done even 10 years ago, the state still hasn't got with the times and adjusted accordingly. Along with this, I have no union to join at my workplace. If my colleagues and I decide not to come to work to stick 2 fingers up to anyone who's listening we won't have a job to go back to.

 

Just a few observations from my relatively short time in work.

[Chez]

The pension used to be calculated on 1/80 final salary x years of service.

The £4k figure you gave doesn't seem to represent what the average public sector worker would get if they had worked for 30 years. It takes into account all workers even if they had worked for five minutes. Average figures like that are meaningless.

 

I work in the private sector and get the absolute bare minimum contribution from my employer. My pension will therefore be what I pay into a private pension. Is the public sector going the same way?

[CB Saint]

I sit in that mid thirties to mid forties bracket. I am not going to have it as good as my parents because they have had the full benefit of final salary pensions and extraordinary house price increases (about 30 fold in the last 45 years) , however I will be considerably better of than the likes of saintandy and super mikey, who have huge student debts, mind boggling house prices and an aged population to support.

[bridge too far]

The £4k figure you gave doesn't seem to represent what the average public sector worker would get if they had worked for 30 years. It takes into account all workers even if they had worked for five minutes. Average figures like that are meaningless.

 

I work in the private sector and get the absolute bare minimum contribution from my employer. My pension will therefore be what I pay into a private pension. Is the public sector going the same way?

 

You're absolutely right in coming to that conclusion but that is my point. Apologies for repeating myself but most public sector workers are female and I would guess a large percentage are part-time and have probably come into the work place after having children or have had a career break to raise a family. So not many of them would work for 30 years.

 

But the average is what it is and, since it's been shown on here in the past, many of the public sector schemes are self-financing, it's a fallacy for the press in particular to imply that all public sector workers walk away with huge pensions paid for by the tax payer. They don't. A few mainly male professionals such as doctors do. And public sector workers are tax payers too don't forget. And if they didn't get pensions they'd paid in to, they'd have to get pension credits that we all pay for anyway.

[saintfully]

Depressing to see that Georges big idea is to reinflate the housing bubble.

 

Borrowing £130 billion off the books (by the way, the deficit is £120 billion) to offer as loans for deposits for house buyers.

 

Or, to put it another way, tax-payers will be carrying the risk of £130 billions worth of mortgages to people who can't save for a deposit!!

 

Doh!! How did we get into this mess again???

[Doctoroncall]

Yeah Wonga will still give you credit.

 

Not for long, the government big boys are coming round to sort 'em out!

 

i was thinking about the credits from the social, it's the positive word for the much maligned benefit.

[pap]

Depressing to see that Georges big idea is to reinflate the housing bubble.

 

Borrowing £130 billion off the books (by the way, the deficit is £120 billion) to offer as loans for deposits for house buyers.

 

Or, to put it another way, tax-payers will be carrying the risk of £130 billions worth of mortgages to people who can't save for a deposit!!

 

Doh!! How did we get into this mess again???

 

This scheme applies to new build only, I believe. If there is enough demand, then this'll drive the construction of new housing stock, along with all the economic activity that entails. Long term, the additional housing supply created by these scheme might even bring prices down.

[saintfully]

This scheme applies to new build only, I believe. If there is enough demand, then this'll drive the construction of new housing stock, along with all the economic activity that entails. Long term, the additional housing supply created by these scheme might even bring prices down.

 

Nope, look again. There are two schemes, one that applies to new builds (an extension of the current failure that will achieve very little on its own without housebuilders being prepared to build on overpriced plots). The other is new and is designed to bridge the gap between 80-95% deposits. Any house buyer (including second-timers) can borrow the 15% difference as an interest free loan of George (ie. us) on gaffs up to £600,000(I think).

 

As it happens, this will help me a lot next year - but its a fu.ckin' risky game for the govt... afterall, house prices never drop by 20% do they.....

[Turkish]

Nope, look again. There are two schemes, one that applies to new builds (an extension of the current failure that will achieve very little on its own without housebuilders being prepared to build on overpriced plots). The other is new and is designed to bridge the gap between 80-95% deposits. Any house buyer (including second-timers) can borrow the 15% difference as an interest free loan of George (ie. us) on gaffs up to £600,000(I think).

 

As it happens, this will help me a lot next year - but its a fu.ckin' risky game for the govt... afterall, house prices never drop by 20% do they.....

 

Are you sure about this? I looked it up and it appeared it was aimed st first time buyers or current homeowners but only on new builds. If you are right this is great news for me. Does this co e under the 'mortgage guarentee' bit?

Edited 20 March, 2013 by Turkish

[Whitey Grandad]

The higher personal tax free threshold and the absence of a requirement to pay NI , those very substantial tax breaks.

 

The higher allowance is being phased out and is actually reduced to zero if your income is £29,000 which is a considerable amount, I'll grant you, but implies a pension pot of over £450,000. The employer still has to pay NI but someone over 65 would have already paid a working lifetime of contributions.

[Whitey Grandad]

You're absolutely right in coming to that conclusion but that is my point. Apologies for repeating myself but most public sector workers are female and I would guess a large percentage are part-time and have probably come into the work place after having children or have had a career break to raise a family. So not many of them would work for 30 years.

 

But the average is what it is and, since it's been shown on here in the past, many of the public sector schemes are self-financing, it's a fallacy for the press in particular to imply that all public sector workers walk away with huge pensions paid for by the tax payer. They don't. A few mainly male professionals such as doctors do. And public sector workers are tax payers too don't forget. And if they didn't get pensions they'd paid in to, they'd have to get pension credits that we all pay for anyway.

 

The pension credits arguments applies to private and public sectors. Remember that these public pensions are in addition to the basic state pension and apart from some notable exceptions have been non-contributory. Whatever the individual amounts, the total financial liability is frightening.

[Jonnyboy]

Race to the bottom, yeah let's make all pensions rubbish and scrap the unions.

[SuperMikey]

Out of interest, can you claim any credits from having such a low wage?

 

I applied for council tax benefits, but I was told I was ineligible for it. I've got an appeal in now. Living with 3 students means I have to pay the bill for the whole house by myself, which seems pretty unfair to me.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Whatever any government does at budget time it is just tinkering around the edges. There are no "cuts" just a slow down in the increase of money the government spends. All 3 parties are pulling the wool over our eyes

 

The amount of money in £ notes that we spend of welfare if targetted correctly would get rid of poverty in this country. The problem is , the money is spent too thinly. People who aren't in need are provided for,meaning that money is tight.

 

We also subsidies big business by topping up low pay with tax payers money. Only labour could devise a system where they set a minimum wage, but then get the state to top it up because its too low. Meanwhile the Tesco' and MacDonald's of the world post millions of profits. If you think a minimum wage is a moral and right thing to do, then make it a living wage, not a mixture of wages and benefits.

 

Until the benefit system is a temporary safety net for people or a permanent one for a tiny portion of the population, disabled ECT, we will never sort out the mess. Too many people look to the state for answers and too many people receive state handouts that don't need them, ****ing hell we had squeals of protest from labour when millionaires lost their family benefit, madness.

[Wade Garrett]

That £10k threshold means bugger all to me. When you factor in the lowering of the 40% threshold, and increased NI payments, I can't see myself being any better off. All this while the rich are having their tax cut (which I'm not against as long as the loopholes are shut), and the aforementioned loopholes not being shut, despite the Government promising they would be.

 

All in this together, hard work being rewarded? Doesn't seem that way to me.

 

Balls and Milliband E are a pair of *****s as well. Thanks TUC for landing us with these mugs. Milliband D and James Parnell would lose these pair of incompetents. Politicians now are like the England side of the 70s, f*cking sh*t.

Edited 21 March, 2013 by Wade Garrett

[CB Saint]

That £10k threshold means bugger all to me. When you factor in the lowering of the 40% threshold, and increased NI payments, I can't see myself being any better off. All this while the rich are having their tax cut (which I'm not against as long as the loopholes are shut), and the aforementioned loopholes not being shut, despite the Government promising they would be.

 

All in this together, hard work being rewarded? Doesn't seem that way to me.

 

Balls and Milliband E are a pair of *****s as well. Thanks TUC for landing us with these mugs. Milliband D and James Parnell would lose these pair of incompetents. Politicians now are like the England side of the 70s, f*cking sh*t.

 

Or the England team for Friday

[bridge too far]

The pension credits arguments applies to private and public sectors. Remember that these public pensions are in addition to the basic state pension and apart from some notable exceptions have been non-contributory. Whatever the individual amounts, the total financial liability is frightening.

 

I think you're wrong on that bit WG. My NHS pension cost me 6% of my salary and I think the same is true for local government workers and teachers and probably more. I haven't got time to check, but I think that the police and armed forces are the only ones who don't make contributions.

[eurosaint]

can you explain what you mean. All I can see my generation inheriting is a huge national debt.

 

What I meant was that people who have a high equity in their property are likely to leave this to their offspring ! As the average house price is currently £238k and the percentage of homeowners is around 65% that means that many of the upcoming generation will inherit a lot more than their predecessors !

You may disagree but that was my point !

[pap]

What I meant was that people who have a high equity in their property are likely to leave this to their offspring ! As the average house price is currently £238k and the percentage of homeowners is around 65% that means that many of the upcoming generation will inherit a lot more than their predecessors !

You may disagree but that was my point !

 

Doesn't that only really work if your parents have got a pot to p!ss in?

[eurosaint]

(Yawn) same old, same old. I've lost count of the number of times we've debated public sector pensions and the misinformation about a) the amount the average public sector worker receives in pension and b) the fact that the majority of public sector workers can't now receive pensions until retirement age - an exception being, for example, a nurse who retires early with a buggered back on health grounds. The average public sector pension is about £4k a year.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14134847

 

When you read the article above it is difficult to equate an average pension of £4k with a required liability of £1.3 trillion !!

[eurosaint]

Doesn't that only really work if your parents have got a pot to p!ss in?

 

Yep !

[pap]

Yep !

 

Yeah, that's me out, I'm afraid.

 

How does one overcome not having loaded parents? Seems a bit unfair to me. I've had to work all my life.

 

Dad, you're a f**king idiot for not being born rich. Shame on you

[eurosaint]

Yeah, that's me out, I'm afraid.

 

How does one overcome not having loaded parents? Seems a bit unfair to me. I've had to work all my life.

 

Dad, you're a f**king idiot for not being born rich. Shame on you

 

I got left next to nothing either but will be leaving a fair chunk to my kids !

That really was my point, that many of the upcoming generation (admittedly not all!) will inherit in a way that their predecessors did not !

[badgerx16]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14134847

 

When you read the article above it is difficult to equate an average pension of £4k with a required liability of £1.3 trillion !!

 

2 points :

 

Firstly the average pension for a public sector worker is @£4000, though as has been pointed out taking an average proves nothing. Second, lumping all public sector pensions into one line of argument is flawed; the Local Government schemes are self-funded and place no liability on the tax payer, the teachers scheme is ( I think ) similarly structured. This liability is for the Civil Service schemes, which are non-contributory and totally dependent on the treasury, and I think such things as the armed forces and the judiciary.

[pap]

I got left next to nothing either but will be leaving a fair chunk to my kids !

That really was my point, that many of the upcoming generation (admittedly not all!) will inherit in a way that their predecessors did not !

 

Also, I'm a relatively young man with a relatively old children ( I'm 37, youngest is 14 this year ).

 

Hopefully, it'll be decades before I pop my clogs, yet the kids are going to be adults in less than 5 years.

[CB Saint]

Yeah, that's me out, I'm afraid.

 

How does one overcome not having loaded parents? Seems a bit unfair to me. I've had to work all my life.

 

Dad, you're a f**king idiot for not being born rich. Shame on you

 

Your the F***king idiot for not being born rich, your dad's a f***ing idiot for not working hard enough so you could be born rich.

[pap]

Your the F***king idiot for not being born rich, your dad's a f***ing idiot for not working hard enough so you could be born rich.

 

I personally have squandered so much money on heat, light, food, shelter and clothing

[badgerx16]

Also, I'm a relatively young man with a relatively old children ( I'm 37, youngest is 14 this year ).

 

Hopefully, it'll be decades before I pop my clogs, yet the kids are going to be adults in less than 5 years.

 

Trust me they don't stop costing you just because they are adults.