The Kraken Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 the concept of a fight is so outdated it's not true. To stay up you need to creat echancres, score goals and win games. IN teh trenches Paul Watton's don't keep you up. Quality players capable of coping with pressure and doing the right thing at the right time is what is needed. We have players that work and run in Cork and Morgan. We needed talent in attacking areas to compliment Lallana and Ricky and that's what we bought. Ramirez was exactly what we needed IMO. How many goals has Gaston scored this season? How about Morgan? Excluding his corners which he takes (most often badly) every time; how many assists has Gaston made. How about Morgan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Morgan's probably played twice as much tbf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Morgan's probably played twice as much tbf... Appearances: Schneiderlin 28, Ramirez 20. So, no, not tbf tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Appearances: Schneiderlin 28, Ramirez 20. So, no, not tbf tbf. Is that starts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Is that starts? Its wiki, so it could be anything really. TBF though, if a defensive midfielder has more goals than a number 10 and they're somewhere close in appearances then it tells you two things: the defensive midfielder is being over-productive, and the attacking midfielder is being under-productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 (edited) I meant minutes.... Just worked it out because I'm sad (based on a full game being 90minutes)....Morgan has played 2520, Gaston 1439. Edited 15 March, 2013 by Saint Garrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 If we stay up we won't sell him unless Cortese actually wants to, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I meant minutes.... Course you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Its wiki, so it could be anything really. TBF though, if a defensive midfielder has more goals than a number 10 and they're somewhere close in appearances then it tells you two things: the defensive midfielder is being over-productive, and the attacking midfielder is being under-productive. It could quite easily just tell you that one of them isn't doing the job he's supposed to and the other one is covering for him. Like when me and Steve Grant played in central midfield in Preston and he scored direct from a corner and had loads of chances, and we conceded loads at the other end due to a massive gap in central midfield. It ISN'T the case for Saints, I just wanted to get that out of my system. It was 2005... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 You saw a shirt for £97. You didn't have the cash, so you borrowed £50 from your mom and £50 from your dad = £100. You bought the shirt and had £3 change. You gave your dad £1 and your mom £1 and kept the other £1 for yourself. Now you owe your mom £49 and your dad £49. 49+49 = 98 + your £1 = 99. Where is the missing £1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 It could quite easily just tell you that one of them isn't doing the job he's supposed to and the other one is covering for him. Like when me and Steve Grant played in central midfield in Preston and he scored direct from a corner and had loads of chances, and we conceded loads at the other end due to a massive gap in central midfield. It ISN'T the case for Saints, I just wanted to get that out of my system. It was 2005... Thanks for that. Most interesting. Truly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 You saw a shirt for £97. You didn't have the cash, so you borrowed £50 from your mom and £50 from your dad = £100. You bought the shirt and had £3 change. You gave your dad £1 and your mom £1 and kept the other £1 for yourself. Now you owe your mom £49 and your dad £49. 49+49 = 98 + your £1 = 99. Where is the missing £1? There is no missing £1, you're just adding up unrelated numbers. The "missing pound" is actually the different between the £98 you still owe, and the £97 you spent. Why the hell would you add a random quid to the £98 you owe your parents ? And also, why the hell would you spent £97 you didn't have on a shirt ?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Thanks for that. Most interesting. Truly. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 15 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I'll be watching both play tomorrow as will you be pal,you tell me who will be the more influential and is the best value for money. For me as it pains me to say it, I doubt it'll be Gaston, He has frustrated many fans by his lack lustre displays even the goals he has scored can't hide the fact he is just not right here, where as Coutinho has been an instant success and cost less money (£4M cheaper than Gaston) Hope i'm eating humble pie after the game and Gaston gets on the scoresheet or plays a blinder this weekend, but I just can't see it happening, even Guly worked harder against Norwich last week when he came on and that says it all. Its not either or. We had Ramirez and went for Coutinho. Short of the whole horse's head malarky not much we can do if he wants to go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I will stick by what I have said all along, he is going to be a great player! Look at bale at Spurs, and Walcott at Arsenal. They have taken their time, but one is blinding now and Walcott looking much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 the concept of a fight is so outdated it's not true. To stay up you need to creat echancres, score goals and win games. IN teh trenches Paul Watton's don't keep you up. Quality players capable of coping with pressure and doing the right thing at the right time is what is needed. We have players that work and run in Cork and Morgan. We needed talent in attacking areas to compliment Lallana and Ricky and that's what we bought. Ramirez was exactly what we needed IMO. So by your post you validate and are happy the way the season has gone and also the transfers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Fans don't appreciate classy player because he doesn't run around like Brett Ormerod shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 which crap newspaper dreamt this up. If you read the posts on here in one breath he is useless in the next he is a prized asset. He was very good last week at Norwich and others were very poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Fans don't appreciate classy player because he doesn't run around like Brett Ormerod shocker. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Dave Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Average player is wanted by an average team? Seems reasonable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 So by your post you validate and are happy the way the season has gone and also the transfers? actually yes. I was pretty happy with the transfer activity in the summer, and I'm still pretty happy wih it now. We signed two keepers, 2 defenders, two midfielders and 2 strikers. Some have worked out better than others, but that's always the case. I recall many saying it was the best ever transfer window. Before it started did anyone think we'd spend so much? Stop ****ign crying all the time and enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 (edited) How many goals has Gaston scored this season? How about Morgan? Excluding his corners which he takes (most often badly) every time; how many assists has Gaston made. How about Morgan? I classified Morgan as a worker along with Cork (i.e. we had them already so thats why we needed to spend big on a flair player), so why highlight him in a discussion about a flair player? Trying to stegthen you opinion? Not doing a very good job especially as Morgan has four goals this season and been a lot more involved in things further forward. As for Ramirez he has 4 goals in 17 starts. Not prolific as a striker, but for a midfielder not terrible. As for assists I don't read much into those statistics. Fox was lauded on here last season by some mugs for having loads of assists. It didn't make him a great player or even indicate that he had played well. An assist is only granted if you had the last touch before a goal is scored. A proper assist is if you played the key role in the goal. I'm afraid I don't record that stat. I actually used the term`chances'. You must factor in the quality of the finisher. I mean who created the chance at Norwich that Lallana blasted over the bar? I don't know and nor does the stat man, but a chance was created and that's what flair players are brought in to do. Returning to Ramirez I'm certainly not saying he has been a world beater, our best player or anything other than good in some games. But when he plays well he carves teams apart. He won that Villa game at our place. He was on a different level to anyone I'd seen at SMS for a few years. He has tremendous talent, a great first touch, stength, pace, guile and a wicked left foot. If we stay up he coulod become a great here. I'm sure you can come up with a huge list of players we could have bought that would have been better. I'd be interested to hear them. Edited 16 March, 2013 by Chez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Happy clapper here.. On the way to roar the mighty Saints on. Gaston Ramirez is a real talent and to start today with Puncheon.. Saints to win 3-1........Lambert, Ramirez and Puncheon. COYS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Happy clapper here.. On the way to roar the mighty Saints on. Gaston Ramirez is a real talent and to start today with Puncheon.. Saints to win 3-1........Lambert, Ramirez and Puncheon. COYS Keep it up, good job....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 I cant speak for anyone else but what I want is a guy who tries all the time, a guy who doesn't fall down with the slightest touch and a guy who looks like he wants to play for the club, but first shall we just settle for a guy who can take a corner without hitting the first man, or can keep the ball and pass to one of our own players. Some of his performances have been woeful and the only reason people say he's a genius or he can unlock teams is because he plays for us. Had Redknapp spent £12 million on him in the Jan window and he put in performances like he does for us, we'd be laughing at him, "typical Harry, just throwing money around". There is a world of difference between a Championship journeyman like Chaplow and a luxury player like Matt was, it not a straight choice between those 2 types of player. Ramirez just doesn't deliver and personally I doubt if he will for us. Sadly I'm starting to develop these same views. Would be interesting to see some of his stats, eg pass completion rate, "beating a man" completion rate etc...MLG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 I classified Morgan as a worker along with Cork (i.e. we had them already so thats why we needed to spend big on a flair player), so why highlight him in a discussion about a flair player? Trying to stegthen you opinion? Not doing a very good job especially as Morgan has four goals this season and been a lot more involved in things further forward. I think that's an object lesson in missing the point. I highlighted Schneiderlin as you classified him as a worker who was needed to complement the forwards and flair players, yet that same worker has scored more in the league than the flair player. And 3 league goals is IMO at least a poor return for a number 10; a lot of his job is to score and create goals, which he largely failed to do as much as hoped for. I'm sure you can come up with a huge list of players we could have bought that would have been better. I'd be interested to hear them. Quite simply, I wouldn't have targetted spending huge on a number 10 (and being as Lallana was being primed for that role I still think it would suit him more than being played wide). I perhaps would have looked to strengthen other areas with more of a marquee signing. We spent £12M on Ramirez but apparently refused to stump up that much for Astori, so I don't get the impression that we prioritised other positions as much as we did for Ramirez. I'd have preferred we prioritised a really solid keeper and/or centre back, rather than the "make do" attitude we seemed to have in comparison to our determination to sign Ramirez and Rodriguez. A bit like Spurs did with Vertonghen and Lloris, either of those would have been fabulous signings IMO. Or we could have gone a cheaper route and gone after the likes of Ben Foster or Seb Bassong. Boruc is working out for us now but had we had a safe pair of hands up to Christmas, we could be pretty much safe by now, again a factor of us not getting our priorities right IMO. You seem to be asking for a huge list of players; I get the feeling you're trying to make a point that Ramirez isn't the only player signed for big money who hasn't quite worked out as expected for the fee. I know that; in fact there have been quite a few other clubs who have spent fairly big and not gotten decent returns. That doesn't make theirs, or ours, any less of a low return on expectation. there have also been clubs who have spent big and have got the returns expected; such as Cazorla (£16.5M and a superb return), and I really rate Dembele at Spurs, plus Lloris and Vertonghen as mentioned. There have also been some utter bargains, obviously Michu but also Ben Foster, Berbatov at £5M was a steal, and various others under £5M who have proved to be decent captures and show that you don't have to make double figure millions signings to get value and quality. My point about Gaston is not that he will be a failure of a signing; he surely must get better than this in future seasons. And we're not the only club who have spent big and not gotten the return hoped for. But I've always maintained that Ramirez wasn't the right signing for this season, and I thoroughly stand by that. He may come good yet, he may not, but I think it was a gamble we needn't have taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 But you have no idea about how much these players are being paid? Or signing on fees etc. Berbatov for example is probably on over 100k plus a big signing on fee. And we were never going to compete to bring in players such as Vertonghen loris and Dembele!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 He most certainly was not the right signing for the season we were going to have, amatuer night at best reckless and an ego signing at worst. Few dispute players need time to settle in, few dispute Ramirez does not have skill but our other players are not like that so why buy one show pony? Why not buy quite a few then so they could all be on the same wavelength? Was not required this season and if we go down we will lose money on him and all the other ****e signings. And the blame lies firmly at Reeds and Cortese's door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 But you have no idea about how much these players are being paid? Or signing on fees etc. Berbatov for example is probably on over 100k plus a big signing on fee. And we were never going to compete to bring in players such as Vertonghen loris and Dembele!!! Hence on of the reasons we will never compete with the big boys, wages, we simply wont pay it. So it wipes out in an instant of this crap European adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 But you have no idea about how much these players are being paid? Or signing on fees etc. Berbatov for example is probably on over 100k plus a big signing on fee. And we were never going to compete to bring in players such as Vertonghen loris and Dembele!!! I was waiting for this type of response What would you have preferred I do? Say something such as "I think we should have bought Ashley Williams from Swansea, I reckon £12M would have got him"? Of course we wouldn't have got Vertonghen, or probably any of the other players listed. They were used as examples of decent signings for similar money. Surprised I had to explain that part. And being as Ramirez himself claimed he's on upwards of 80K a week plus signing bonus, it puts your other guesswork into perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 But you have no idea about how much these players are being paid? Or signing on fees etc. Berbatov for example is probably on over 100k plus a big signing on fee. And we were never going to compete to bring in players such as Vertonghen loris and Dembele!!! And Berbatov got interested of Fulham for one thing. Living in London again.... Talking about us signing Verthongen, Lloris and Dembele this year when we are newcomers, well don´t really need to discuss that. Should be obvious that they wont go to us, despite what kind of wage we would offer.... In a few years if we keep progressing, that´s another thing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 I was waiting for this type of response What would you have preferred I do? Say something such as "I think we should have bought Ashley Williams from Swansea, I reckon £12M would have got him"? Of course we wouldn't have got Vertonghen, or probably any of the other players listed. They were used as examples of decent signings for similar money. Surprised I had to explain that part. And being as Ramirez himself claimed he's on upwards of 80K a week plus signing bonus, it puts your other guesswork into perspective. Gaston said he was on about 65k a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 He most certainly was not the right signing for the season we were going to have, amatuer night at best reckless and an ego signing at worst. Few dispute players need time to settle in, few dispute Ramirez does not have skill but our other players are not like that so why buy one show pony? Why not buy quite a few then so they could all be on the same wavelength? Was not required this season and if we go down we will lose money on him and all the other ****e signings. And the blame lies firmly at Reeds and Cortese's door. Quite right Baz. For this season I look at Norwich who brought in Michael Turner and Seb Bassong for less than half what we bought Ramirez for. Neither are top 8 type players, but they're solid enough to pretty much ensure Norwich another season of Prem experience and the chance to establish roots and push on further. We could easily be above Norwich right now had we adopted a similar policy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Gaston said he was on about 65k a week. He said he was on £2M euros a year, net. Plus a £1M net signing on fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Quite right Baz. For this season I look at Norwich who brought in Michael Turner and Seb Bassong for less than half what we bought Ramirez for. Neither are top 8 type players, but they're solid enough to pretty much ensure Norwich another season of Prem experience and the chance to establish roots and push on further. We could easily be above Norwich right now had we adopted a similar policy IMO. But they can't score goals?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 But they can't score goals?!? Bassong has scored 3 this season Gaston 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 But they can't score goals?!? Ramirez has scored one more than Bassong! Dont let the facts get in the way lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 They haven't scored in 5 of their last 6 games or something. They'd probably be saying if they had gaston then they'd be further up the table. Don't understand some people on here it's almost like they want him to be sh!t so they can have a go at the chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Don't understand some people on here it's almost like they want him to be sh!t so they can have a go at the chairman. I believe the word "almost" is superfluous in that sentence. That's exactly what some of the WUM/Trolls on here want, and exactly why the Forum has almost died. Look at how quiet it is today, and its a match day, nothing to discuss because decent posters have got fed up with the likes of Turkish, Sanchez and Glasgow. Really can hardly be bothered any more, even Alpine has almost given up, I almost miss his trolling, at least it was amusing, and sometimes he made good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Happy clapper here.. On the way to roar the mighty Saints on. Gaston Ramirez is a real talent and to start today with Puncheon.. Saints to win 3-1........Lambert, Ramirez and Puncheon. COYS G'warn lad! Really hope this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 I believe the word "almost" is superfluous in that sentence. That's exactly what some of the WUM/Trolls on here want, and exactly why the Forum has almost died. Look at how quiet it is today, and its a match day, nothing to discuss because decent posters have got fed up with the likes of Turkish, Sanchez and Glasgow. Really can hardly be bothered any more, even Alpine has almost given up, I almost miss his trolling, at least it was amusing, and sometimes he made good points. Can you name one good poster who doesnt post anymore because of Turkish and Sanchez? This is another SWF myth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 They haven't scored in 5 of their last 6 games or something. They'd probably be saying if they had gaston then they'd be further up the table. Don't understand some people on here it's almost like they want him to be sh!t so they can have a go at the chairman. Him being **** is not a reason solely to have a go at "the don", Christ alive, criticising our supposed beloved is valid if there is a reason to do so, buying players not needed for the seaosn we were go to have with the squad we have is valid, employing Les Reed alone is enough, consulting him is ****ing ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 I believe the word "almost" is superfluous in that sentence. That's exactly what some of the WUM/Trolls on here want, and exactly why the Forum has almost died. Look at how quiet it is today, and its a match day, nothing to discuss because decent posters have got fed up with the likes of Turkish, Sanchez and Glasgow. Really can hardly be bothered any more, even Alpine has almost given up, I almost miss his trolling, at least it was amusing, and sometimes he made good points. So you debate has weakened so you blame others willing to discuss, heaven forbid having discussion on a forum, "forum". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Yes we would have been much better just getting someone like Glenn whelen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Yes we would have been much better just getting someone like Glenn whelen You see and then some clown comes in with a suggestion like that? Who suggested that, its toys out the pram, you want him to be a success like we all do but cant man up and face the facts he has been ****e as it reflects bad on "the don", "the don" knows very little of football and neither does Les "Charlton" Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 He hasn't been "sh!te" though has he. He has struggled at times along with being superb at times. If you were expecting any 21 year old from a different continent to come into the Premiership and win matches on his own consistently then you're even more of an idiot. You said you'd much rather but a cheap player who will run a lot and be up for a relegation fight? You need goals to stay up and it's clearly the reason why we bought him in. I hope he has a superb game today and you shut up moaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chivvy1664 Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 Think he would be better player with a more mobile striker. As much as I love lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 He is 22 and he has played abroad before, Christ alive where have I said in the same sentence and context that we need a runner and he has to be cheap? We needed relevant signings and he out on his own is not, age and being in a different Country is no barrier, he simply does not want to be here hence the wages for a 22 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 He is 22 and he has played abroad before, Christ alive where have I said in the same sentence and context that we need a runner and he has to be cheap? We needed relevant signings and he out on his own is not, age and being in a different Country is no barrier, he simply does not want to be here hence the wages for a 22 year old. That's just stupid. He's on that money because he's a full international and has had a lot of interest in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 16 March, 2013 Share Posted 16 March, 2013 The sad reality of the Ramirez situation is that with the £12m we could have bought a few of the below Ramirez 12m Michu 2m Demba Ba 6m Benteke 7m Arouna Koné 3m The list goes on....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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