Minsk Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Ramirez supposedly threw his toys out of the pram to get a move from Bologna to Saints, what makes you think he won't do the same if we go down to force a move? No club will offer us £10m if we go down. By the way, when I said a club like us I meant a club fighting relegation. You'd expect your big money signings to be a big success. I bet our transfer committee regret not going for Michu now. We did go for Michu; he chose Laudrup and Swansea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Yeah, i wasn't too bothered him going off, if it had been for Puncheon. Lol....you prefer Puncheon to Ramirez, thank ferk you don't manage us, that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 15 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Ramirez supposedly threw his toys out of the pram to get a move from Bologna to Saints, what makes you think he won't do the same if we go down to force a move? No club will offer us £10m if we go down. By the way, when I said a club like us I meant a club fighting relegation. You'd expect your big money signings to be a big success. I bet our transfer committee regret not going for Michu now. Apparently yes but he can throw toys out of his pram all he likes, as much as Cortese is a total you know what he is not likely to be held to ransom by a player. Ok yes true but name one club who's been spot on with every transfer? Yeah Michu was a miss but he was on the radar so we were not completely off the pace. Some players ARE bargains but the going rate is the going rate. Gaston in a Uruguay international playing well in a top league and there was stiff competition for his signature. Circumstances rather dictate the fee. Either way you didnt really answer the question. Do you not think with the season he has had it would have been difficult for any player to look like an instant world beater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I'd swap him for Chamberlain. what a thought provoking post that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Lol....you prefer Puncheon to Ramirez, thank ferk you don't manage us, that is all. Ramirez was knackered and needed to come off. I think Appy was saying a knackered Ramirez was a better option than JWP, but not better option than a fresh Puncheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 what a thought provoking post that is. Agree, and I dont think I would make that swap. Gaston has much more potential as I see it and Ox hasn´t been able to get in their side regurly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Lets buy Chamberlain back off them and play him in the right position - right midfield in a 4-4-2 running up and down that line all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 what a thought provoking post that is. Likewise. I could've dragged it out over a paragraph or two but considering the point I was trying to make was that I would chose Chamberlain over him, I thought I would keep it nice and simple. I think Ramirez will be a quality player, we've all seen glimpses of his ability. Though I just don't think he's been particularly suited to a team trying to find it's feet in this league, yet looking to him for inspiration despite him also trying to adjust. I can't see NC and his ego letting him go in the summer, unles GR is desperate to leave. Everyone knows Ramirez was his signing and he wouldn't want him deemed to be a flop. IF we stay up, hopefully Ramirez will flourish for us next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Agree, and I dont think I would make that swap. Gaston has much more potential as I see it and Ox hasn´t been able to get in their side regurly.... AOC would be more suited to us in our current league position than Ramirez. Ramirez technically is a better footballer but it's how you apply it. We've looked very dangerous out wide at times this season with Shaw, Clyne and Puncheon bombing forward. Someone with out and out pace and who has an end product would've only added to that threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Brilliant. Selling our best players is really gonna improve us. That said, he won't be prepared to play in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 AOC would be more suited to us in our current league position than Ramirez. Ramirez technically is a better footballer but it's how you apply it. We've looked very dangerous out wide at times this season with Shaw, Clyne and Puncheon bombing forward. Someone with out and out pace and who has an end product would've only added to that threat. I wouldn´t say no to getting AOC back cause he is also a great player, just saying I dont think I´ll take the swap. I think Gaston will improve very much just to next season and I can see him winning a game or two on the run-in this year. Only time will tell but I disagree completely with everyone saying we should sell him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 He is not a player we ever needed or required for a relegation fight, sell him and buy a player of his ilk when we are in Arsenals position, ego buy nothing nothing less and I did not take it seriously when the article stated he has had a good first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Cortese isn't going to sell him in the summer of 2013 for less than we paid for him in the summer of 2012! ffs He really hasn't done as poorly as many in this thread are making out. Technically he is probably our best player, has had injuries, a family bereavement, no-preseason with Saints and is only 22 years old. I think he will prove to be a very good buy, a pre-season with Pochetinno this summer will do him the world of good. Why would you buy a show pony if you knew you were going to be in a relegation fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Some glimpses of absolute genius from him this season shows that we would be crazy to flog him now. That flick for Clynes goal against Villa was absolutely sublime,until we buy a few more intelligent footballers that are on the same wavelength as him we will probably not see the best of him. He reminds me of when Makoun went to Villa couple seasons ago,was different class but they made him look poor by not understanding his game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Not sure it's deserving of a whole thread (please feel free to move it into another thread) but bbc gossip is carrying a rumour from a caught offside article (http://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/03/14/arsenal-ready-to-pounce-as-wenger-prepares-summer-move-for-southampton-playmaker-gaston-ramirez/) suggesting Wenger wants to sign Ramirez in the summer. Plenty on here have had the debate about his performance this season but the article suggest "The forward has enjoyed a good debut season". Anyway my question is, should their be unlikely foundation to the rumour, is their a price at which people would sell? I still think he'l come good but somewhere near twenty mil for me Are we going to have to point out the difference between "their" and "there" again (and "they're" for that matter)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaneNero Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Yes. Do not rate him. However, Arsenal will never splash 12 mil, so will be set to make a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Are we going to have to point out the difference between "their" and "there" again (and "they're" for that matter)? Theiyre'es really no need, is thaire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Arsene on the ball with his purchases again I see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 (edited) Some glimpses of absolute genius from him this season shows that we would be crazy to flog him now. That flick for Clynes goal against Villa was absolutely sublime,until we buy a few more intelligent footballers that are on the same wavelength as him we will probably not see the best of him. He reminds me of when Makoun went to Villa couple seasons ago,was different class but they made him look poor by not understanding his game Which players currently in our team do you feel aren't intelligent enough to work well with Ramirez? Edited 15 March, 2013 by Sour Mash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Wenger's lost the plot somewhat, but he'd have to be on the sauce Cloughie style to want to buy Ramirez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 we'd be a lot worse off without his contributions. How exactly when we are in the relegation zone and likely to go down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Genuinely surprised by the number of people who don't rate Ramirez. Don't confuse the perspective that the money would have been better spent elsewhere with the quality of the player. I can tell you irregardless of the fee when he does leave us, it will be for a far better club. Of course there is more to come from him but if you can't see the quality he has you need to watch more football. If our club wants to go anywhere we need to hang on to him desperately and get in more players to help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 (edited) How exactly when we are in the relegation zone and likely to go down? ??? Saints are not in the relegation zone and haven't been for some time. They are 16th and 4 points above the relegation zone with a superior goal difference. Yes a relegation fight, but not sure why that makes them "likely to go down". Cheer up ffs! Edited 15 March, 2013 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 How exactly when we are in the relegation zone and likely to go down? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Genuinely surprised by the number of people who don't rate Ramirez. Don't confuse the perspective that the money would have been better spent elsewhere with the quality of the player. I can tell you irregardless of the fee when he does leave us, it will be for a far better club. Of course there is more to come from him but if you can't see the quality he has you need to watch more football. If our club wants to go anywhere we need to hang on to him desperately and get in more players to help him. This. People need to realise that we need more players like Ramirez to achieve what we want to do,its his first season in English football he is young and lets be honest he has gone straight into a under achieving/under performingteam in a relegation scrap ,he has not gone into a top 10 team he has come to us who are still coming to terms with life in the prem.but if we are to stay in the prem I am sure that we will be seeing a lot more players like Ramirez !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 This. People need to realise that we need more players like Ramirez to achieve what we want to do,its his first season in English football he is young and lets be honest he has gone straight into a under achieving/under performingteam in a relegation scrap ,he has not gone into a top 10 team he has come to us who are still coming to terms with life in the prem.but if we are to stay in the prem I am sure that we will be seeing a lot more players like Ramirez !! I genuinely wonder what the people that slate him want. "Oh he's a passenger, he goes missing all the time". Then when they get their way, and we get a team full of Chaplow-esque try-hard work horses, they will moan about a lack of flair players to unlock defences. Which we still more chance of doing with him in the side. Players of his quality can unlock a team even if they have done f all for the other 70 minutes of a game. Frustrating as hell, but that's what these players are like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Ramirez has taken a while to settle in, let's not forget that there are still some games left for him to step up to the plate and justify his price tag. We need him to as we'll be in the bottom 3 in 3 weeks time Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 He cost 12 million pounds. He hasn't looked to be 12 million pounds worth of player to me. He is young, will develop..... We hope..... If we can hold onto him I would as he is so evidently talented but his ability to apply it in the right way in this country is key, I would rather he did that here then elsewhere. Yet if 20 million pounds are offered...... Maybe Agents playing games...? Agree with most of that Colin. Up until now he's had some bad luck; injuries and still doesn't seem to be 100 % fit - even now. There is such a thing as being the right player, at the right club ...at the wrong time ..and maybe he's been just that so far. I'd like him succeed with Saints but the £12 million price tag weighs a bit heavily on his shoulders, if he were to go to Arsenal he'd become " one of the boys " rather than a "slightly tarnished " golden boy. Agent's games? (you mentioned ) ....more than likely. Stories like this spread around often signify that he is " open to a move " without actually asking for a move. IF....(heaven forbid)..we were to go down, he'd be the first to go....and for a darn sight more than £12 mill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 (edited) I genuinely wonder what the people that slate him want. "Oh he's a passenger, he goes missing all the time". Then when they get their way, and we get a team full of Chaplow-esque try-hard work horses, they will moan about a lack of flair players to unlock defences. Which we still more chance of doing with him in the side. Players of his quality can unlock a team even if they have done f all for the other 70 minutes of a game. Frustrating as hell, but that's what these players are like. I cant speak for anyone else but what I want is a guy who tries all the time, a guy who doesn't fall down with the slightest touch and a guy who looks like he wants to play for the club, but first shall we just settle for a guy who can take a corner without hitting the first man, or can keep the ball and pass to one of our own players. Some of his performances have been woeful and the only reason people say he's a genius or he can unlock teams is because he plays for us. Had Redknapp spent £12 million on him in the Jan window and he put in performances like he does for us, we'd be laughing at him, "typical Harry, just throwing money around". There is a world of difference between a Championship journeyman like Chaplow and a luxury player like Matt was, it not a straight choice between those 2 types of player. Ramirez just doesn't deliver and personally I doubt if he will for us. Edited 15 March, 2013 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 .and for a darn sight more than £12 mill. NC's got more chance of going to the moon in shoebox, than getting all his money back if we're relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I have said this many times and I truly believe it,Gaston and Rickie do not work that well together,for me they are not really on the same wavelength. Gaston is a very intelligent player who can unlock defences and would easily create chances for players who were a lot quicker and playing off the last defender,Rickie is not that type of player he has different quality's about him and for me the two do not compliment each other. If J-rod was the lone striker who has that extra bit of pace you would probably see a different side to Gastons game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 People have short memories...a quick flick through this thread... http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?40095-Ramirez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I cant speak for anyone else but what I want is a guy who tries all the time, a guy who doesn't fall down with the slightest touch and a guy who looks like he wants to play for the club, but first shall we just settle for a guy who can take a corner without hitting the first man, or can keep the ball and pass to one of our own players. Some of his performances have been woeful and the only reason people say he's a genius or he can unlock teams is because he plays for us. Had Redknapp spent £12 million on him in the Jan window and he put in performances like he does for us, we'd be laughing at him, "typical Harry, just throwing money around". There is a world of difference between a Championship journeyman like Chaplow and a luxury player like Matt was, it not a straight choice between those 2 types of player. Ramirez just doesn't deliver and personally I doubt if he will for us. I've never seen him not try. Sometimes he has bad games, no denial about that, but he always looks bothered to me. Also, the game I saw him in the flesh away at Fulham, he took a kicking every time he got the ball and just got on with it. Me and my non-Saints supporting mates that came with me were all quite surprised by this. The Harry point doesn't really work, as Harry and QPR throw money at players that have already peaked, and are living on past glories. We spent big on a player that may well go on to bigger things. It's a gamble, no doubt, but it will have been considered. People who keep saying it was a Cortese signing thinking he did this without any input from anyone else basically void their own arguments, demonstrating exactly how ignorant they are. We have a greater chance of recouping the cost of Ramirez, than QPR do any of their signings. Again, players like Gaston are notorious for taking time to settle. Ronaldo for his first two years had very little end product for Utd, and was often ridiculed for his set-piece abilities. Drogba too was pretty unspectacular in his first season. It's frustrating, as we clearly need players to perform now. But the timing of the signing, and the fee aren't really Gaston's fault. Whether it is with us, or elsewhere, the guy will deliver, and once again those so quick to write people off will be wrong, not that they will ever admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 NC's got more chance of going to the moon in shoebox, than getting all his money back if we're relegated. ..let's hope we never have to find out , eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Whether it is with us, or elsewhere, the guy will deliver, and once again those so quick to write people off will be wrong, not that they will ever admit it. What on earth makes you think people will never admit it? Why make a stupid comment like that? There's not one person on here who has slated him that doesn't hope that they are proved wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 What on earth makes you think people will never admit it? Why make a stupid comment like that? There's not one person on here who has slated him that doesn't hope that they are proved wrong. A huge number of people wrote Schneiderlin off, many are unlikely to admit they were wrong with that. To write Ramirez off is daft, as he clearly has ability, its his first season in a new country, in a struggling team, has had injuries, no pre-season with the team and a family bereavement to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I'm not writing him off at all. He has tremendous skill and a vision that's often far ahead of those around him, but I have three concerns. He's not proven himself tough enough for the weekly grind of the Premier League, and we can't afford midfield time-outs at this level. His set-piece delivery has, so far, been poor. And - this perhaps above all - I'm not sure that he fits very well into Pochettino's high-pressing style; when he goes into one of his low-profile phases, it adds a lot to Schneiderlin's and Cork's already-heavy workload. It could be a case of Ramirez OR Lallana but not Ramirez AND Lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Haven't seen a worse corner taker since senna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Haven't seen a worse corner taker since senna :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
influx Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I've never seen him not try. Sometimes he has bad games, no denial about that, but he always looks bothered to me. Also, the game I saw him in the flesh away at Fulham, he took a kicking every time he got the ball and just got on with it. Me and my non-Saints supporting mates that came with me were all quite surprised by this. The Harry point doesn't really work, as Harry and QPR throw money at players that have already peaked, and are living on past glories. We spent big on a player that may well go on to bigger things. It's a gamble, no doubt, but it will have been considered. People who keep saying it was a Cortese signing thinking he did this without any input from anyone else basically void their own arguments, demonstrating exactly how ignorant they are. We have a greater chance of recouping the cost of Ramirez, than QPR do any of their signings. Again, players like Gaston are notorious for taking time to settle. Ronaldo for his first two years had very little end product for Utd, and was often ridiculed for his set-piece abilities. Drogba too was pretty unspectacular in his first season. It's frustrating, as we clearly need players to perform now. But the timing of the signing, and the fee aren't really Gaston's fault. Whether it is with us, or elsewhere, the guy will deliver, and once again those so quick to write people off will be wrong, not that they will ever admit it. Hooray!!! Amongst this quagmire of people who obviously know very little about football ( but sooo think they do!) , a bloody post that just about sums it up for me and I totally agree. I mean comparing it to one of Redcraps signings...FFS!! Unbelievable!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I've said it before, but it's not just a case of Gaston settling in, it's also the rest of the team getting used to him. A few times I've seen him play defence splitting balls, like the reverse pass against Norwich, that aren't being read by the others. He also finds space, but isn't being played in because a few of our players seem scared of passing forwards in the final third. He does need to cut down a bit on the flicks. They have cost us possession when we've been in really dangerous attacking positions. I am loathe to write him off, he's far too good a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOWSaintDaz Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Wish he'd just f**k off, we should of got Coutinho instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
influx Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Wish he'd just f**k off, we should of got Coutinho instead Why dont you just...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOWSaintDaz Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Why dont you just...... I'll be watching both play tomorrow as will you be pal,you tell me who will be the more influential and is the best value for money. For me as it pains me to say it, I doubt it'll be Gaston, He has frustrated many fans by his lack lustre displays even the goals he has scored can't hide the fact he is just not right here, where as Coutinho has been an instant success and cost less money (£4M cheaper than Gaston) Hope i'm eating humble pie after the game and Gaston gets on the scoresheet or plays a blinder this weekend, but I just can't see it happening, even Guly worked harder against Norwich last week when he came on and that says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Coutinho has got Suarez in front of him. If Ramirez had that he'd look the ******** as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
influx Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 I'll be watching both play tomorrow as will you be pal,you tell me who will be the more influential and is the best value for money. For me as it pains me to say it, I doubt it'll be Gaston, He has frustrated many fans by his lack lustre displays even the goals he has scored can't hide the fact he is just not right here, where as Coutinho has been an instant success and cost less money (£4M cheaper than Gaston) Hope i'm eating humble pie after the game and Gaston gets on the scoresheet or plays a blinder this weekend, but I just can't see it happening, even Guly worked harder against Norwich last week when he came on and that says it all. Fair enough fella, you are entitled to your opinion, but IMO he will come good, and hopefully tear Pool a new one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Brilliant. Selling our best players is really gonna improve us. That said, he won't be prepared to play in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 To be fair though, if you were to make a decision on Gaston after 4 games, or whatever Coutinho has played, you'd have said he was class. He was superb in that villa game, scored Everton away looked decent when he came on at Arsenal, and was superb vs Newcastle. And Coutinho does have Sturridge playing alongside him whereas Gaston had Lambert in front of him. As much as I love Rickie, he's not going to make te most of Gaston's intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 This. Just think of all those dropped points that might have been saved if the time, effort and money spent on securing his services had been invested on a couple of decent defenders. and a goalkeeper for the start of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 15 March, 2013 Share Posted 15 March, 2013 Why would you buy a show pony if you knew you were going to be in a relegation fight? the concept of a fight is so outdated it's not true. To stay up you need to creat echancres, score goals and win games. IN teh trenches Paul Watton's don't keep you up. Quality players capable of coping with pressure and doing the right thing at the right time is what is needed. We have players that work and run in Cork and Morgan. We needed talent in attacking areas to compliment Lallana and Ricky and that's what we bought. Ramirez was exactly what we needed IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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