Graffito Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 As I keep saying, the capacity increase is merely one part of the development as can clearly be seen from the images. In a world of FFP, the club need to increase revenue streams. Matthew, Saints don't own all the land that's shown as redeveloped on the CGIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 As I keep saying, the capacity increase is merely one part of the development as can clearly be seen from the images. In a world of FFP, the club need to increase revenue streams. I get that, yes, we have to look and consider expanding our revenue streams, increasing our capacity and I'll be as happy as anyone if we did just that. That said, I wouldn't want you making decisions with my money. Just because we've sold out a few games this season doesn't mean we'll always do so. In fact, far from it. Plenty of clubs have stagnated once reaching the Premier League, with attendances eventually dropping. That could EASILY happen to us. And no, I can't clearly see an expansion of the revenue streams from a few architects drawings. I can see a nice stadium, a bigger stadium fascia and some kind offices, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I get that, yes, we have to look and consider expanding our revenue streams, increasing our capacity and I'll be as happy as anyone if we did just that. That said, I wouldn't want you making decisions with my money. Just because we've sold out a few games this season doesn't mean we'll always do so. In fact, far from it. Plenty of clubs have stagnated once reaching the Premier League, with attendances eventually dropping. That could EASILY happen to us. And no, I can't clearly see an expansion of the revenue streams from a few architects drawings. I can see a nice stadium, a bigger stadium fascia and some kind offices, but that's about it. Our attendance so far this season is actually less than the season in which we finished rock bottom of the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I know it's not just the capacity increase which can generate revenue. To rebuild the stadium and develop the surrounding area still requires a monumental investment in comparison to the training complex which you keep harping on about. I don't think many dispute that Cortese probably does have a desire to redevelop the stadium but the fact that there are literally a few digital mocks up devoid of any real detail or information knocking about means that we are some way off seeing much formally commence. Especially as the risk-reward considerations heavily rely on us being a successful premier league team, a fact which you just can't grasp. The two go hand in hand, a stadium development would help us be a successful team and a successful team will help fill a stadium development. Sometimes you just have to take that leap... A stadium development is a long term investment and would benefit the club for the long term. Look at Newcastle, they expanded their stadium and can fill it whilst in the Premier League, they were relegated but still needed a larger stadium as in the long term it was likely they'd return to the top flight. A development of St Mary's would benefit Saints for 30+ years. If we went down in that time, we'd stand a good chance of coming back up and long term infrastructure shouldn't be solely decided on the short term position in the league pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I get that, yes, we have to look and consider expanding our revenue streams, increasing our capacity and I'll be as happy as anyone if we did just that. That said, I wouldn't want you making decisions with my money. Just because we've sold out a few games this season doesn't mean we'll always do so. In fact, far from it. Plenty of clubs have stagnated once reaching the Premier League, with attendances eventually dropping. That could EASILY happen to us. And no, I can't clearly see an expansion of the revenue streams from a few architects drawings. I can see a nice stadium, a bigger stadium fascia and some kind offices, but that's about it. A radio station and insurance company could be a money spinner, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 The good old Newcastle comparison. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 The two go hand in hand, a stadium development would help us be a successful team and a successful team will help fill a stadium development. Sometimes you just have to take that leap... A stadium development is a long term investment and would benefit the club for the long term. Look at Newcastle, they expanded their stadium and can fill it whilst in the Premier League, they were relegated but still needed a larger stadium as in the long term it was likely they'd return to the top flight. A development of St Mary's would benefit Saints for 30+ years. If we went down in that time, we'd stand a good chance of coming back up and long term infrastructure shouldn't be solely decided on the short term position in the league pyramid. I can't wait for our cyclical return to the lower leagues in a 50,000 seater stadium. It'll be epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 A radio station and insurance company could be a money spinner, yes? Sounds like a good, original idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 The two go hand in hand, a stadium development would help us be a successful team and a successful team will help fill a stadium development. Sometimes you just have to take that leap... A stadium development is a long term investment and would benefit the club for the long term. Look at Newcastle, they expanded their stadium and can fill it whilst in the Premier League, they were relegated but still needed a larger stadium as in the long term it was likely they'd return to the top flight. A development of St Mary's would benefit Saints for 30+ years. If we went down in that time, we'd stand a good chance of coming back up and long term infrastructure shouldn't be solely decided on the short term position in the league pyramid. Yep, it's worked really well for Coventry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Our attendance so far this season is actually less than the season in which we finished rock bottom of the Premier League. I won't be by the end of the season the average is going up, we have Liverpool and Chelsea sold out. Stoke on the final day will sell out, then you have West Ham that will sell well. Even the West Brom game should sell reasonably well. To average over 30,000 in a relegation fight is impressive and shows that the stadium is too small. If we can average over 30k in a relegation season, a half decent season would require a bigger stadium. Every sell out we've had this season means the club has turned customers away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I won't be by the end of the season the average is going up, we have Liverpool and Chelsea sold out. Stoke on the final day will sell out, then you have West Ham that will sell well. Even the West Brom game should sell reasonably well. To average over 30,000 in a relegation fight is impressive and shows that the stadium is too small. If we can average over 30k in a relegation season, a half decent season would require a bigger stadium. Every sell out we've had this season means the club has turned customers away. It realy doesn't, you silly child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Yep, it's worked really well for Coventry. I don't know if you noticed but Coventry don't own their stadium, nor to they have access to the matchday revenue. Not the best example Mr Turkish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I don't know if you noticed but Coventry don't own their stadium, nor to they have access to the matchday revenue. Not the best example Mr Turkish! A stadium development hasn't helped them have a successful team has it. Nor has Leicester, Derby, Darlington, Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 To average over 30,000 in a relegation fight is impressive and shows that the stadium is too small. After 19 games, it shows little else other than potential. To base a huge redevelopment plan costing £30m+ on a few sell out games over 1 season is ridiculous. If we can average over 30k in a relegation season, a half decent season would require a bigger stadium. Every sell out we've had this season means the club has turned customers away. And how many games was that? I'd love to know. Let me guess... the bigger games, right? The Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City games, right? So if we played Sunderland at home in a 50,000 seater stadium, they'd likely be 22,000 odd seats spare. Yup, sounds like a great investment. I'm sold. Let's build it. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 A stadium development hasn't helped them have a successful team has it. As I said, they don't own their stadium, nor have access to the matchday revenue. Saints do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 As I said, they don't own their stadium, nor have access to the matchday revenue. Saints do. Ahh right, so you need to own it now do you, it's not just about a stadium development, How close are we to the announcement of our development? It must be 'soon' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Ahh right, so you need to own it now do you, it's not just about a stadium development, How close are we to the announcement of our development? It must be 'soon' Why are you even asking that? You know full well I don't know. I wouldn't underestimate Cortese's drive to progress the club as quick as he can though, once survival this season is obtained I think we may see something more on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Why are you even asking that? You know full well I don't know. I wouldn't underestimate Cortese's drive to progress the club as quick as he can though, once survival this season is obtained I think we may see something more on this. Well you said you expect it to be announced soon, that was a year ago, we seem to be no closer. I was wondering what the basis for this assumption was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Well you said you expect it to be announced soon, that was a year ago, we seem to be no closer. I was wondering what the basis for this assumption was. The Rugby World Cup was a major factor, apparently. Which we will be hosting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I'm still waiting to hear a response to my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Well you said you expect it to be announced soon, that was a year ago You seem to assume if said "soon", I meant weeks or months. we seem to be no closer As we now have another set of more detailed images, does that not suggest something has moved forward since the season ticket DVD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 You seem to assume if said "soon", I meant weeks or months. As we now have another set of more detailed images, does that not suggest something has moved forward since the season ticket DVD? No, you're assuming that is what I meant, I'm asking you, we are a year on and no announcement, what did you mean by soon? We have some more pretty pictures, nothing more. Not really moving very quickly for someone so determined to push this through quickly is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 The Rugby World Cup was a major factor, apparently. Which we will be hosting. True, and Cortese doesn't seem like the sort of guy to hang around, we shouldn't underestimate his determination to make this happen. Just we can't be sure how 'soon' this will be. It certainly doesn't look like its going to be within months, maybe it's within years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 True, and Cortese doesn't seem like the sort of guy to hang around, we shouldn't underestimate his determination to make this happen. Just we can't be sure how 'soon' this will be. It certainly doesn't look like its going to be within months, maybe it's within years? Actually, it wasn't years. MLG said so himself. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthrea...=expect+happen Southampton won't be able to do any major work during the summer of 2015 as it hosting Rugby World Cup games. So given the planning application length and the length of construction we might see work over 2013 and 2014 perhaps? So, construction work starting in 2013 and progressing into 2014 was what he originally posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Actually, it wasn't years. MLG said so himself. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthrea...=expect+happen So, construction work starting in 2013 and progressing into 2014 was what he originally posted. Interesting stuff. We might expect the builders to move in straight after the Stoke game then, Perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Interesting stuff. We might expect the builders to move in straight after the Stoke game then, Perhaps? I would say that could maybe happen, perhaps. But we know that it won't happen in the summer of 2015; that pesky rugby world cup that we're hosting gets in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Actually, it wasn't years. MLG said so himself. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthrea...=expect+happen So, construction work starting in 2013 and progressing into 2014 was what he originally posted. I don't know if you noticed but I was far from definite in that post, I was merely stating when the club couldn't do construction work and used the word "perhaps" for when it could. If you hadn't noticed, 2014 hasn't ended yet either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Still waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I would say that could maybe happen, perhaps. But we know that it won't happen in the summer of 2015; that pesky rugby world cup that we're hosting gets in the way. So we only really have this year and next year to get it all done. as Cortese isn't the sort of guy to hang around 5 years, MLG said this himself only today. I don't understand what the hold up can be, we really need to get a move on with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Thought we weren't getting the rugby game?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I don't know if you noticed but I was far from definite in that post, I was merely stating when the club couldn't do construction work and used the word "perhaps" for when it could. If you hadn't noticed, 2014 hasn't ended yet either. For once, why not definitively suggest something you believe will happen instead of the ridiculous charade you put on to try so hard (and fail so spectactularly) in being wrong about things. "It'll happen soon, but it could be 5 or 10 years". Just have a bit of courage and say when you think it'll be. You didn't mention 2015 apart from the rugby world cup; can we assume you think building works will be complete by 2015? Go on MLG; stick your neck out. I'll help you out; I don't think we'll start building anything in the next 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Still waiting. Not sure why I need to respond, you listed fewer games than Saints have/will sold out this season during a relegation fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I don't think we'll start building anything in the next 2 seasons. So you think Saints might from 2015 onwards? Do you think an application might go in during the next two seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Interesting stuff. We might expect the builders to move in straight after the Stoke game then, Perhaps? It will be soon. When I say soon though I actually mean in about five years time. If it doesn't look likely in five years I'll extend it and say ten. By saying soon I'm never actually wrong because it's a subjective term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 So you think Saints might from 2015 onwards? Answer the question please, and then I'll answer yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 It will be soon. When I say soon though I actually mean in about five years time. If it doesn't look likely in five years I'll extend it and say ten. By saying soon I'm never actually wrong because it's a subjective term. It can't be 5 years time as Cortese isn't the sort of guy to wait 5 years. What we know is it'll be soon, but that doesn't mean months, it doesn't even mean before 2013 or 14 but its less than 5 years as we know Cortese won't wait that long, with the rugby World Cup which we are hosting that rules out 2015 so I'm struggling a bit to work out when it'll be. We don't know if Cortese not waiting 5 years started today or last year when the OP was made. All we know is that it'll be soon. What we don't know is when soon is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Answer the question please, and then I'll answer yours. Like you, I don't know. But i wouldn't be so quick to rule it out being relatively soon as you and others are. I get the impression Cortese doesn't like waiting around for too long and wants quick progression. He is selling the club to player that we will be competing for Europe next season, perhaps on the face of it very ambitious, but that is the man at the helm. This is possibly the most exciting time ever to be a Saints fans, sit back and enjoy the ride rather than attacking me, even if you think I'm delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Like you, I don't know. But i wouldn't be so quick to rule it out being relatively soon as you and others are. I get the impression Cortese doesn't like waiting around for too long and wants quick progression. He is selling the club to player that we will be competing for Europe next season, perhaps on the face of it very ambitious, but that is the man at the helm. Sit back and enjoy the ride rather than attacking me, even if you think I'm delusional. What would you define as relatively soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Like you, I don't know. But i wouldn't be so quick to rule it out being relatively soon as you and others are. I get the impression Cortese doesn't like waiting around for too long and wants quick progression. He is selling the club to player that we will be competing for Europe next season, perhaps on the face of it very ambitious, but that is the man at the helm. Sit back and enjoy the ride rather than attacking me, even if you think I'm delusional. Can you put a date on it? "Soon" is, as you've proved, no indication whatsoever. You say you won't rule out "relatively soon", and Cortese blah blah blah. What timescale are we talking here? By 2013? By 2014? By 2015? Its not difficult to give a hunch, is it? I reckon not in 2013 or 2014. That's a complete guess; which apparently you disagree with. You just don't seem to have an answer yourself, other than that mine will be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 What would you define as relatively soon? A planning application in next 18 months if we remain in the Premier League, possibly even at the end of this season if we stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Nice to see the fans in stripes. That was the only thing I thought when I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 A planning application in next 18 months if we remain in the Premier League, possibly even at the end of this season if we stay up. So we shouldn't expect building work to start in 2013 or 14 perhaps? Reading, a club you love to use as an example, originally submitted plans in 2007, 6 years ago. Would you expect Cortese to wait this long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 A planning application in next 18 months if we remain in the Premier League, possibly even at the end of this season if we stay up. Hallelujah. Probably not "soon" at all then. In fact, if its 18 months, that'll be 2.5 years from your original assertion that it would be "soon"; and that's just for a planning application. And yet you used to consistently disagree with myself and others who previously said we wouldn't start any building works within the first 2 or 3 years of a return to the Premier League. Turns out you now think that we will possibly do exactly that. Who would've thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Reading, a club you love to use as an example, originally submitted plans in 2007, 6 years ago. Would you expect Cortese to wait this long? Reading struggle to sellout a 24k stadium in the Premier League, Saints average over 30k and sellout a 32k stadium doe a number of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Reading struggle to sellout a 24k stadium in the Premier League, Saints average over 30k and sellout a 32k stadium doe a number of games. How many times have Reading sold out this season compared to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 How many times have Reading sold out this season compared to us? Does that matter? The fact they have a number of games in a 24k stadium not sold out is telling in itself that it isn't the best comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Reading struggle to sellout a 24k stadium in the Premier League, Saints average over 30k and sellout a 32k stadium doe a number of games. Reading's average attendance this season: 23,925. Capacity is 24,161. http://espnfc.com/stats/attendance?league=eng.1&cc=5739 Sounds like they're really struggling. Their percentage of capacity sold per game is much higher than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Not sure why I need to respond, you listed fewer games than Saints have/will sold out this season during a relegation fight. Oh, you only respond when it suits you. OK then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Does that matter? The fact they have a number of games in a 24k stadium not sold out is telling in itself that it isn't the best comparison. But if they had a bigger stadium their average would be higher. And how do you know there aren't literally thousands of Reading fans who think they can't get a ticket do don't even bother trying, like there are at Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Reading's average attendance this season: 23,925. Capacity is 24,161. http://espnfc.com/stats/attendance?league=eng.1&cc=5739 Sounds like they're really struggling. Their percentage of capacity sold per game is much higher than ours. Pretty impressive that when they terrible and in a relegation battle. Imagine how big a stadium they'd need if they were a successful team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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