Dig Dig Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 The training ground planning application went in when Saints were in League One, construction started when in the Championship and will be finished this summer. Saints didn't need a training ground like they will have in League One or the Championship. These plans for the stadium are for the long term benefit of the club and more than just adding capacity to the stadium, they are about increasing revenue streams for the club in other areas. Unlike Pompey owners of the past decade, Cortese/Liebherr have a strong record of delivering on their projects. I doubt this is a pipe dream and think Cortese has every intention of seeing it through. Mate, don't embarrass yourself further. At this moment in time, these are just some digital drawings and are as likely not to happen as they are to happen. People who go on those stadium tours get told that the club must consolidate in the prem before any further expansion of St Marys are done. I'm sure the intent is there but too many variables involved to even start getting excited by some nice pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Mate, don't embarrass yourself further. At this moment in time, these are just some digital drawings and are as likely not to happen as they are to happen. People who go on those stadium tours get told that the club must consolidate in the prem before any further expansion of St Marys are done. I'm sure the intent is there but too many variables involved to even start getting excited by some nice pictures. All very sensible Dog Dog, but I fear poor old MLG simply will not listen to such reasoning in this respect and will continue to speculate in favour of a massively rapid construction phase, despite any evidence to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Even if Cortese has got plans for it and expects it to happen, I can't see it happening until we've stayed up in the prem for 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Even if Cortese has got plans for it and expects it to happen, I can't see it happening until we've stayed up in the prem for 5 years. Reading have shown the way forward. Draw up your formal plans and submit them to the authorities for approval; that takes time in itself. Then wait until you're ready/comfortable enough to actually go ahead with expansion. Reading have had their plans approved for years. Quite rightly they're waiting until they have a more secure business case before actually going ahead and spending many millions of pounds on a white elephant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Are as likely not to happen as they are to happen. Have you plucked that 50/50 figure out of thin air? Cortese just doesn't strike me as the sort to commission AFL to design a stadium development without the intent and knowledge he has the resources to see the project through. Staplewood will be up their with some of the best in the country, Cortese put that through planning whilst in the 3rd tier, construction started whilst in the 2nd tier. Saints are currently averaging over 30k whilst in a relegation fight, and are selling out a lot of games, if we actually had good season 32k simply wouldn't be big enough. Even this season Saints are turning away customers due to not being able to meet demand as capacity restricts them. In any case this isn't solely about an increase in capacity, as you can see from the images the club are looking to increase revenues by developing the surrounding area. All will come in useful under FFP regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Reading have shown the way forward. Draw up your formal plans and submit them to the authorities for approval; that takes time in itself. Then wait until you're ready/comfortable enough to actually go ahead with expansion. Reading have had their plans approved for years. Quite rightly they're waiting until they have a more secure business case before actually going ahead and spending many millions of pounds on a white elephant. Indeed - look at Wolves ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Have you plucked that 50/50 figure out of thin air? Cortese just doesn't strike me as the sort to commission AFL to design a stadium development without the intent and knowledge he has the resources to see the project through. Staplewood will be up their with some of the best in the country, Cortese put that through planning whilst in the 3rd tier, construction started whilst in the 2nd tier. Saints are currently averaging over 30k whilst in a relegation fight, and are selling out a lot of games, if we actually had good season 32k simply wouldn't be big enough. Even this season Saints are turning away customers due to not being able to meet demand as capacity restricts them. In any case this isn't solely about an increase in capacity, as you can see from the images the club are looking to increase revenues by developing the surrounding area. All will come in useful under FFP regulations. Although I agree I think it is sad seeing all these stadiums half empty. Middlesbrough went and got a big stadium and they more often than not, have it half full with no atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Although I agree I think it is sad seeing all these stadiums half empty. Middlesbrough went and got a big stadium and they more often than not, have it half full with no atmosphere. It is sad, one of the things I hated about relegation to the championship 7 years ago was how flat the stadium felt when it wasn't full. I would hate to have that same kind of feel in the top flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Indeed - look at Wolves ! Another good example. Draw up your plans, in up to four stages. Lose your secure business footing (before being relegated), postpone phase 2. Until we actually submit some plans, these are just some pretty pictures with no basis in fact at all. Won't stop some people using them as evidence of an impending build, mind. They're like a concept car design at the Geneva motor show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 another good example. Draw up your plans, in up to four stages. Lose your secure business footing (before being relegated), postpone phase 2. Until we actually submit some plans, these are just some pretty pictures with no basis in fact at all. Won't stop some people using them as evidence of an impending build, mind. They're like a concept car design at the geneva motor show. no no no. Build it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I'm with Turkish, build it now it looks cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 no no no. Build it now. Does Cortese really strike you as the sort to wait 5 years? Plus as I keep saying, this is far more than a mere capacity increase, the surrounding area is being developed to increase revenue streams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Does Cortese really strike you as the sort to wait 5 years? Plus as I keep saying, this is far more than a mere capacity increase, the surrounding area is being developed to increase revenue streams. Would you rather we played in a stadium half full every week apart from very occasionally, or play in a smaller stadium which is packed every week? I know which I'd rather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Does Cortese really strike you as the sort to wait 5 years? Plus as I keep saying, this is far more than a mere capacity increase, the surrounding area is being developed to increase revenue streams. I don't think he is the kind of person to build a stadium when there is no guarenteed return... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Does Cortese really strike you as the sort to wait 5 years? Plus as I keep saying, this is far more than a mere capacity increase, the surrounding area is being developed to increase revenue streams. He strikes me as the sort of bloke who would do what he thinks is right and is a good business decision, not what a computer game freaks who are regularly getting even the most basic of things wrong on a mongboard thinks is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Would you rather we played in a stadium half full every week apart from very occasionally, or play in a smaller stadium which is packed every week? I know which I'd rather. We are playing in a packed out stadium whilst in a relegation battle, Cortese has ambitions and it seems resources for Saints not to be in a relegation battle. Therefore the stadium is too small. What exactly would he now be waiting for? He can already see that Saints will fill St Mary's when in a relegation battle, if the club was actually doing well he'll need his bigger stadium. The surrounding development is also largely independent of what league we are in and will add to revenue streams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Who had 102 posts in the sweepstake before this turned into a stadium expansion bore off between MLG and Turks? Come to the front, you have won a prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Who had 102 posts in the sweepstake before this turned into a stadium expansion bore off between MLG and Turks? Come to the front, you have won a prize. I find it quite amusing. Especially poor old MLG's insistence for the past 18 months that Cortese is in a hurry to get this to happen despite not even submitting any formal plans for approval yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I find it quite amusing. Especially poor old MLG's insistence for the past 18 months that Cortese is in a hurry to get this to happen despite not even submitting any formal plans for approval yet. How do you know he's not working on plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I find it quite amusing. Especially poor old MLG's insistence for the past 18 months that Cortese is in a hurry to get this to happen despite not even submitting any formal plans for approval yet. Isn't it just. MLG insistent that Cortese is in a hurry to get this done, in fact here we are almost a year on from the golden thread about what he expects to see happen soon and despite this mad rush to start all sorts of building work we are only a few pretty pictures closer to it. It seems Cortese is the sort of guy who is prepared to wait Afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Who had 102 posts in the sweepstake before this turned into a stadium expansion bore off between MLG and Turks? Come to the front, you have won a prize. Just like almost every other thread, the WUMs and Trolls take over. It really is quite tedious these days, once it happens the thread may as well be closed because most posters just give up and move on. I remember the days when it was just good old Alpine, but now these boring ****wits take over with the same old crap regurgitated time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 in this thread I can't see anyone mention the intended new capacity - how many would it hold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 in this thread I can't see anyone mention the intended new capacity - how many would it hold? Don't think it has been mentioned. Although probably around the 45-50k mark I would expect. Not that we would fill it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 in this thread I can't see anyone mention the intended new capacity - how many would it hold? No-one knows, being as it isn't a formal planning application, its just a pie-in-the-sky concept drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 How do you know he's not working on plans? Where did I mention working on anything? I specifically mentioned "submitted"; why have you twisted what I said? Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Just like almost every other thread, the WUMs and Trolls take over. It really is quite tedious these days, once it happens the thread may as well be closed because most posters just give up and move on. I remember the days when it was just good old Alpine, but now these boring ****wits take over with the same old crap regurgitated time and time again. Yes, don't you just wish they would **** off. They really think they are something special (and funny) don't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Reading have shown the way forward. Draw up your formal plans and submit them to the authorities for approval; that takes time in itself. Then wait until you're ready/comfortable enough to actually go ahead with expansion. Reading have had their plans approved for years. Quite rightly they're waiting until they have a more secure business case before actually going ahead and spending many millions of pounds on a white elephant. Reading's plans are a bit pointless though. 24,000 is too big for them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Just like almost every other thread, the WUMs and Trolls take over. It really is quite tedious these days, once it happens the thread may as well be closed because most posters just give up and move on. I remember the days when it was just good old Alpine, but now these boring ****wits take over with the same old crap regurgitated time and time again. Yes, don't you just wish they would **** off. They really think they are something special (and funny) don't they. If you two trolls have nothing to add to the thread other than whiney sniping about the good old days, its probably best you stay out so it can keep on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Well something has progressed, as the designs for the stadium have changed since the summer, the renders are far more detailed and we can now see what they have in mind for the surrounding area with what looks like it might be a hotel and retail, offices, apartments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 They might as well put a few spaceships on there as well. Just as likely to be there as the rest of it. Pie in the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Well something has progressed, as the designs for the stadium have changed since the summer, the renders are far more detailed and we can now see what they have in mind for the surrounding area with what looks like it might be a hotel and retail, offices, apartments. Are we any closer to the date that you implied was 'soon' when you said in your thread last year what you expected to see happen soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 They might as well put a few spaceships on there as well. Just as likely to be there as the rest of it. Pie in the sky. Did you say the same of the training ground plans when we were in League One? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Are we any closer to the date that you implied was 'soon' when you said in your thread last year what you expected to see happen soon? http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?37346-St-Mary-s-What-we-might-expect-to-see-happen-(and-possibly-announced-soon)&highlight=expect+happen Southampton won't be able to do any major work during the summer of 2015 as it hosting Rugby World Cup games. So given the planning application length and the length of construction we might see work over 2013 and 2014 perhaps? The amount of wrong and baseless speculation in that statement is a testament to the lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyin Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I have generally found forums featuring anything other than football, well Saints to be honest, to be gentile, considered and pleasant places to discuss the order of the day. On skyscrapercity, MLG has succeeded in bringing the antagonistic nature of this forum to a wider audience (though they're not biting) and made the average Saints fan to look like a complete berk. Nice one. You sound like an angry young kid stomping his feet to get your point across. Give it a rest lad. We've heard you. Now wait until it happens and you can then say I told you so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Did you say the same of the training ground plans when we were in League One? Do you not see a clear difference between training facilities and a 50K steater stadium plus development of surrounding area in terms on scale, cost, red tape etc etc etc? Not to mention that you don't need an ongoing cost benefit measure for a training facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 We are playing in a packed out stadium whilst in a relegation battle, Cortese has ambitions and it seems resources for Saints not to be in a relegation battle. Therefore the stadium is too small. What exactly would he now be waiting for? He can already see that Saints will fill St Mary's when in a relegation battle, if the club was actually doing well he'll need his bigger stadium. The surrounding development is also largely independent of what league we are in and will add to revenue streams. It's not too small though, is it? How big do you think we are, seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 It's not too small though, is it? How big do you think we are, seriously? If you sell out your stadium out when in a relegation fight and have ambitions of competing much higher up the league, then yes, it is too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 (edited) I have generally found forums featuring anything other than football, well Saints to be honest, to be gentile, considered and pleasant places to discuss the order of the day. On skyscrapercity, MLG has succeeded in bringing the antagonistic nature of this forum to a wider audience (though they're not biting) and made the average Saints fan to look like a complete berk. Nice one. You sound like an angry young kid stomping his feet to get your point across. Give it a rest lad. We've heard you. Now wait until it happens and you can then say I told you so. I don't represent you, so why do you care? We merely (probably by fluke of birth) follow the same 11 men running about a pitch chasing a ball. Edited 12 March, 2013 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 St Mary's is about right for us at the moment. If we do move up the table and are challenging regularly for a top half spot then maybe we'll expand it, but until then we'll just have empty seats everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Do you not see a clear difference between training facilities and a 50K steater stadium plus development of surrounding area in terms on scale, cost, red tape etc etc etc? Not to mention that you don't need an ongoing cost benefit measure for a training facility. Have you noticed it isn't merely a capacity increase, far more to it than that which will benefit revenue streams. My reference to the training ground is that unlike Pompey, Cortese/Liebherr have a history of seeing through building projects. I doubt they are the type that put time money and effort into pipe dreams. Cortese means business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 If you sell out your stadium out when in a relegation fight and have ambitions of competing much higher up the league, then yes, it is too small. How many times have they sold out then? I'd like to know. I'd also like to know as to why you think it's a sensible investment to spend £30m+ expanding the stadium on the basis that a few games out 19 this season were sold out (and bearing in mind that it's still a novelty as we're back in the top division for the first time in seven years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Have you noticed it isn't merely a capacity increase, far more to it than that which will benefit revenue streams. My reference to the training ground is that unlike Pompey, Cortese/Liebherr have a history of seeing through building projects. I doubt they are the type that put time money and effort into pipe dreams. Cortese means business. I didn't realise you'd been following their work for so long. I'd love to see some examples of their joint projects together.. then we'd know that it isn't factless bile, won't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Did you say the same of the training ground plans when we were in League One? No. I admire your optimism, fair play to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I have generally found forums featuring anything other than football, well Saints to be honest, to be gentile, considered and pleasant places to discuss the order of the day. On skyscrapercity, MLG has succeeded in bringing the antagonistic nature of this forum to a wider audience (though they're not biting) and made the average Saints fan to look like a complete berk. Nice one. You sound like an angry young kid stomping his feet to get your point across. Give it a rest lad. We've heard you. Now wait until it happens and you can then say I told you so. He did that on football forums as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Have you noticed it isn't merely a capacity increase, far more to it than that which will benefit revenue streams. My reference to the training ground is that unlike Pompey, Cortese/Liebherr have a history of seeing through building projects. I doubt they are the type that put time money and effort into pipe dreams. Cortese means business. The announcement must be imminent, you said almost a year ago you expected it soon and we couldn't do it in 2015 due to the Rugby World Cup. You said tonight Cortese isn't the sort of bloke to wait 5 years. How close are we to 'soon'? It must be very soon given all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 How many times have they sold out then? I'd like to know. I'd also like to know as to why you think it's a sensible investment to spend £30m+ expanding the stadium on the basis that a few games out 19 this season were sold out (and bearing in mind that it's still a novelty as we're back in the top division for the first time in seven years). As I keep saying, the capacity increase is merely one part of the development as can clearly be seen from the images. In a world of FFP, the club need to increase revenue streams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Have you noticed it isn't merely a capacity increase, far more to it than that which will benefit revenue streams. My reference to the training ground is that unlike Pompey, Cortese/Liebherr have a history of seeing through building projects. I doubt they are the type that put time money and effort into pipe dreams. Cortese means business. I know it's not just the capacity increase which can generate revenue. To rebuild the stadium and develop the surrounding area still requires a monumental investment in comparison to the training complex which you keep harping on about. I don't think many dispute that Cortese probably does have a desire to redevelop the stadium but the fact that there are literally a few digital mocks up devoid of any real detail or information knocking about means that we are some way off seeing much formally commence. Especially as the risk-reward considerations heavily rely on us being a successful premier league team, a fact which you just can't grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I know it's not just the capacity increase which can generate revenue. To rebuild the stadium and develop the surrounding area still requires a monumental investment in comparison to the training complex which you keep harping on about. I don't think many dispute that Cortese probably does have a desire to redevelop the stadium but the fact that there are literally a few digital mocks up devoid of any real detail or information knocking about means that we are some way off seeing much formally commence. Especially as the risk-reward considerations heavily rely on us being a successful premier league team, a fact which you just can't grasp. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 As I keep saying, the capacity increase is merely one part of the development as can clearly be seen from the images. In a world of FFP, the club need to increase revenue streams. Can development of the surrounding area only be done with a stadium increase? Can it not be done independently, and therefore relatively cheaply increase the matchday revenues without building a big unproven white elephant? Have the club actually said they'll do it all together, rather than one bit at a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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