The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Name the five most expensive ones from the top of your head, and then we can compare that to the 5 most expensive attacking players. You think there will be any difference? I don't even understand your point. We spent £7M on a player in Rodriguez to replace a player we bought for £1M, yet he has failed to do that. That's the benchmark I'm judging him by; I don't know what your's it, but it seems its different to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 If Lambert was 23 then he'd be worth more than £7m....that was my arguement about 2 pages ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 For every West Brom and Swansea there is a QPR and Sunderland... Exactly. And the point is that some clubs spend well, and some less well. Some clubs who spend exorbitant amounts don't get as good results as clubs who spend less but buy well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Different for West Brom and Swansea, two solid mid table teams spending nothing like we have on individuals? It´s not like the both of them haven´t had any struggles, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Well, Jarvis springs to mind... And signing one of the (if not the) hottest young prospect from the Championship. Is that all about how he will perform the first 8 months at the club when signing him for 4 years? I said on another thread that in two years time those £7m will look like a bargain and being one of the clubs best business. And have I said that Rodriguez will be a great success? No, but I do think it´s mental to make judgements on a signing after 8 months, especially on a young hot prospect. But how is it with the constans Nugent references, you seemed to "miss" answering that...? Yes, here. You said he'd be a bargain and the £7m would be one of our best ever bits of business. It's impossible for him not to be isn't it. He won't be another David Nugent, it's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 It´s not like the both of them haven´t had any struggles, is it? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 If Lambert was 23 then he'd be worth more than £7m....that was my arguement about 2 pages ago... He isn't though. So it's not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 For every West Brom and Swansea there is a QPR and Sunderland... Yes. If either of those had spent 12m on Gaston Ramires people like you would be sneering at what a flop he has been for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Yes, here. You said he'd be a bargain and the £7m would be one of our best ever bits of business. It's impossible for him not to be isn't it. He won't be another David Nugent, it's impossible. He might be ? He might not be ? Who knows? Thats the risk you have with buying young players. But even if he carries on as he is, he'll probably be sellable for 4 or 5m, so for a net spend of 1 or 2m, it's not bad business. It's much better business than spending 5m on a player who is 30 and will offer for 1 season but then not good enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 He isn't though. So it's not relevant. No he's not. But then surely you can understand why J-Rod can't get in the team as our striker when we only play one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Yes, here. You said he'd be a bargain and the £7m would be one of our best ever bits of business. It's impossible for him not to be isn't it. He won't be another David Nugent, it's impossible. Strange, when I press quote I have different text than from what I see you have written.....edit?? Yes, I had an opinion. Can I guarantee that, no. Do I believe it, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 What? Do you think Swansea and/or West Bromwich has been free from struggling since they came up to PL? Hopefully clear enough since you jumped to the chance of attacking my grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 He might be ? He might not be ? Who knows? Thats the risk you have with buying young players. But even if he carries on as he is, he'll probably be sellable for 4 or 5m, so for a net spend of 1 or 2m, it's not bad business. It's much better business than spending 5m on a player who is 30 and will offer for 1 season but then not good enough... And here we go back into 'Kieran Dyer' territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Garrett: They probably think Gazza should be playing instead of Boruc since he cost more for us.....it´s all about transfer fees, there can never be some other explanation to why players aren´t picked.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Do you think Swansea and/or West Bromwich has been free from struggling since they came up to PL? Hopefully clear enough since you jumped to the chance of attacking my grammar. What? again. They haven't been free from struggling but neither have they spent the money we have, and we haven't been free from struggling. What's your point? And why are you on about grammar when I've not mentioned it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 No he's not. But then surely you can understand why J-Rod can't get in the team as our striker when we only play one? So we have another example of an expensive signing not being better than a player already here. I'm glad you are starting to come round, god knows its taken a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Oh, and Fox cost more than Shaw, get him in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 I don't know if Jay Rod is going to end up being one of those 'hustle' strikers who snatch at chances all their career or if he'll develop his game with far more composure and end up being a very good all round player. I am quite encouraged by what I've seen but I would be unhappy if there wasn't far more to come. He has the tools - its down to him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Oh, and Fox cost more than Shaw, get him in! What on earth are you going on about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Garrett: They probably think Gazza should be playing instead of Boruc since he cost more for us.....it´s all about transfer fees, there can never be some other explanation to why players aren´t picked.... You're really not all that bright if you think that's the point being made. What a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 So we have another example of an expensive signing not being better than a player already here. I'm glad you are starting to come round, god knows its taken a while. Deary me how are you so unable to gather the concept, it's quite something...! Just becuase he is more expensive than someone that we paid £1m for 3 years ago, doesn't mean he's suddenly much better than him? Rickie is a top player and if they were the same age, Rickie would cost much much more. That doesn't mean that J-Rod is ****, it just means Rickie is a good player ? Understand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 You're really not all that bright if you think that's the point being made. What a shame. I don't even understand your point. We spent £7M on a player in Rodriguez to replace a player we bought for £1M, yet he has failed to do that. That's the benchmark I'm judging him by; I don't know what your's it, but it seems its different to that. Okey, if you say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Deary me how are you so unable to gather the concept, it's quite something...! Just becuase he is more expensive than someone that we paid £1m for 3 years ago, doesn't mean he's suddenly much better than him? Rickie is a top player and if they were the same age, Rickie would cost much much more. That doesn't mean that J-Rod is ****, it just means Rickie is a good player ? Understand ? Which is exactly my point, we've spent £7m on a player who wasn't better than the one who was already in the position he plays in. Do you think that is sensible for a newly promoted team looking to establish themselves to do? £25m spent on players who have arguably had minimal impact in this crucial season. It's not difficult to grasp is it, bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Deary me how are you so unable to gather the concept, it's quite something...! Just becuase he is more expensive than someone that we paid £1m for 3 years ago, doesn't mean he's suddenly much better than him? Rickie is a top player and if they were the same age, Rickie would cost much much more. That doesn't mean that J-Rod is ****, it just means Rickie is a good player ? Understand ? It also means that our transfer policy is awry if we spend such sums on players that cannot dislodge the incumbent player, do you not think? Its not as if we didn't have other parts of the team that need addressing. Such as centre back, where we've spent £2.5M and still look weak. that's the entire point which seems to be bypassing some. £7M on a reserve while neglecting other parts of the pitch that really require attention is not a brilliant strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 So you think we should have brought in a player and just never played Rickie ? You don't think he deserves his chance in the prem or capable ? Yes we could have brought in a high paid prem player on his way down, but the idea was to bring in a player who can learn his trade here and for him to learn from Rickie. How much would it cost to get a player better than Rickie? 10m? 15m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Okey, if you say so. I don't think you're ever going to comprehend it, so I'll stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 It also means that our transfer policy is awry if we spend such sums on players that cannot dislodge the incumbent player, do you not think? Its not as if we didn't have other parts of the team that need addressing. Such as centre back, where we've spent £2.5M and still look weak. that's the entire point which seems to be bypassing some. £7M on a reserve while neglecting other parts of the pitch that really require attention is not a brilliant strategy. How do you know they were neglected or maybe we just struggled to bring in the talent at CB that we wanted? Yoshi is hardly a bad player is he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 So you think we should have brought in a player and just never played Rickie ? You don't think he deserves his chance in the prem or capable ? Yes we could have brought in a high paid prem player on his way down, but the idea was to bring in a player who can learn his trade here and for him to learn from Rickie. How much would it cost to get a player better than Rickie? 10m? 15m? Why were we trying to sell Lambert in the summer if that was the case? You're wrong, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Why were we trying to sell Lambert in the summer if that was the case? You're wrong, I'm afraid. Im sure if we were trying to get rid of him he would have gone. There would have been enough takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 So you think we should have brought in a player and just never played Rickie ? You don't think he deserves his chance in the prem or capable ? Yes we could have brought in a high paid prem player on his way down, but the idea was to bring in a player who can learn his trade here and for him to learn from Rickie. How much would it cost to get a player better than Rickie? 10m? 15m? Yes thats exactly the point. you really arent very bright are you. We should have concentrated on areas that needed strengthening. As said above, we spent £2m on a central defender, brought a goalkeeper from the 3rd division and left this area so weak we needed a panic buy in Boruc and didn't buy a wide player or left back that we needed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Why is it always the either/or? Why do people think that just because we bought JRod for £7m we didn´t have money to buy a new CB? Can it be so easy that the right player wasn´t available for the right price? We dont know, but if so it would be a fair and good strategy I think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 How do you know they were neglected or maybe we just struggled to bring in the talent at CB that we wanted? Yoshi is hardly a bad player is he. I know because I look at the fact that we said we needed 1 or 2 CBs at the start of the summer, we just about got 1 and we spent relatively little on him compared to other outgoings. We prioritised other areas for spending big, and getting in there early and following all the way through for players we really wanted (Ramirez and Rodriguez). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Why is it always the either/or? Why do people think that just because we bought JRod for £7m we didn´t have money to buy a new CB? Can it be so easy that the right player wasn´t available for the right price? We dont know, but if so it would be a fair and good strategy I think.... Who has said this? Simply that we didn't spend as much on key areas the manager identified at the start of the summer as we did on areas the manager barely mentioned. You're the only one in this thread bringing up the assumption that there was a finite pot of money to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Yes thats exactly the point. you really arent very bright are you. We should have concentrated on areas that needed strengthening. As said above, we spent £2m on a central defender, brought a goalkeeper from the 3rd division and left this area so weak we needed a panic buy in Boruc and didn't buy a wide player or left back that we needed at all. So you don't think we could have put work into 2 different positions at once ? You think we bought J-Rod instead of others? You would have been happy to go into the season with 1 striker in Lambert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Why is it always the either/or? Why do people think that just because we bought JRod for £7m we didn´t have money to buy a new CB? Can it be so easy that the right player wasn´t available for the right price? We dont know, but if so it would be a fair and good strategy I think.... Making things up now I see. Good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Im sure if we were trying to get rid of him he would have gone. There would have been enough takers. We didn't let him go because the management realised they'd misjudged the Rodriguez signing. Lambert was primed for a move away, you're simply wrong about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Making things up now I see. Good one. How so, please explain it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 We didn't let him go because the management realised they'd misjudged the Rodriguez signing. Lambert was primed for a move away, you're simply wrong about this. Maybe I am? But I personally dont see why we'd even think about letting him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 So you don't think we could have put work into 2 different positions at once ? You think we bought J-Rod instead of others? You would have been happy to go into the season with 1 striker in Lambert? We prioritised other areas yes, I believe we did. we left signing a centre half until the last day of the window when the only fit ones we had were Fonte and Hooliveld. what does that tell you? And we didn't just have one striker, we have Mayuka, we also had Sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 How so, please explain it to me. Saying people think we didn't have the money to buy Rodriguez and a centre back. Completely made up as no one has said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 We signed J-Rod way before Mayuka ? And Sharp isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Who has said this? Simply that we didn't spend as much on key areas the manager identified at the start of the summer as we did on areas the manager barely mentioned. You're the only one in this thread bringing up the assumption that there was a finite pot of money to spend. Maybe because it´s not the first time Rodriguez is brought up on this forum when discussing the transfer policy. And it´s not like I´m first to say/think that on this forum..... So I am saying we had a finite pot to spend.....well I would have thought that me making a question of it would mean the opposite..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Maybe because it´s not the first time Rodriguez is brought up on this forum when discussing the transfer policy. And it´s not like I´m first to say/think that on this forum..... So I am saying we had a finite pot to spend.....well I would have thought that me making a question of it would mean the opposite..... No-one on this thread mentioned it. Except you, of course. so I'm not sure why you're trying to put words in other people's mouths to try and make your point, you're having a faux argument with no-one in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Saying people think we didn't have the money to buy Rodriguez and a centre back. Completely made up as no one has said that. Oh dear. So why are people not saying "we should have spent £45m" but instead they are saying "we should have spent the money in different areas and not pay £7m for players that cant get into the team"? And you haven´t seen any threads here suggesting that we are risking the club because we have spent £25-30m last summer?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 We signed J-Rod way before Mayuka ? And Sharp isn't good enough. Because he was a priority signing, that is the whole point which you aren't grasping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Oh dear. So why are people not saying "we should have spent £45m" but instead they are saying "we should have spent the money in different areas and not pay £7m for players that cant get into the team"? And you haven´t seen any threads here suggesting that we are risking the club because we have spent £25-30m last summer?? Absolutely no one has said we didn't have the money, no one. you made that bit up as you're clearly struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 No-one on this thread mentioned it. Except you, of course. so I'm not sure why you're trying to put words in other people's mouths to try and make your point, you're having a faux argument with no-one in particular. Fine. So answer the other question I talked about then? Do you or do you not think that the club were looking for another CB but the right player for the right price wasn´t there to be found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Pretty much comes down to opinions though doesn't it....If you think Gaston and J-Rod will be failures and we will lose money on what we paid for them then the are a bad piece of business. If you think they'll get better with time and contribute a lot to us over the next few years (whether that is transfer fee or performances on the pitch) they're a success. Just think writing them off so early into their Saints career is massively premature. Morgan is a great example, shown glimpses of quality when he arrived and has grown into it and now by far our best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Pretty much comes down to opinions though doesn't it....If you think Gaston and J-Rod will be failures and we will lose money on what we paid for them then the are a bad piece of business. If you think they'll get better with time and contribute a lot to us over the next few years (whether that is transfer fee or performances on the pitch) they're a success. Just think writing them off so early into their Saints career is massively premature. Morgan is a great example, shown glimpses of quality when he arrived and has grown into it and now by far our best player. Who wrote them off? I said that for £35m worth of players I'd expect one or two of them to be amongst our best players this season, i expected them to perform relatively quickly, not wait a couple of years for them to show their ability. The players who were already here are. It's simple, you even agreed with it above when you said bait how great Cork, Scniderlin, Lambert and Shaw have been! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 12 March, 2013 Share Posted 12 March, 2013 Fine. So answer the other question I talked about then? Do you or do you not think that the club were looking for another CB but the right player for the right price wasn´t there to be found? I think the club didn't prioritise spending big and getting in there early on a centre-back or two (and keeper) as they did on Ramirez and Rodriguez. IMO they weren't as prepared to spend such relative sums on a centre-back or keeper, and didn't prioritise a marquee signing in those positions. Hence with the window about to close sources who got our transfer dealings pretty much spot on labelled us as being in disarray and unsure of our targets, resulting in last minute lower price gambles on Yoshida and Boruc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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