Transfers-In; How succesful?

[The Kraken]

And it won't all be 50%rate will it, there are different tax bands.

 

Earnings over £150K per year. Which is 7.5% of his annual salary, a fairly negligible amount.

[Turkish]

Not what I've heard....and I know someone who is good mates with him...

 

Gaston is on about £60k...

 

according to newspaper reports he is on £80k a week. Gaston is on 2 million euros a year net, plus a 1m signing on fee. About £70k a week, then add on his signing on fee, also net and there aint a lot of difference.

[Olallana]

Fill us in if you know the figures, if they exist. Mine came from the horse's mouth, hence passing them on. I'm all ears for what Johnson's equivalents are though.

 

Since most papers are saying that he had £110k/week at Man C it´s now probable pretty much the same considering compensating sum and sign on bonus.

[The Kraken]

Since most papers are saying that he had £110k/week at Man C it´s now probable pretty much the same considering compensating sum and sign on bonus.

 

Speculation then. Fair enough.

[Turkish]

Great example, hats off to you. You are clearly raising your level Sir!

 

Still, Gaston is a better player, that next year will be playing in the World Cup for a stronger team, Adam Johnson will not in a weaker team.

 

 

And by the way sweetie, have been looking at every one of the 280 games in EPL this year just for your sake.

 

Results for the team with most shots in the game is.....

136 wins.

81 draws.

63 losses.

 

Still think the successful way is to have less shots in the games?

 

If you can cherry pick so can i. If you think its simply goals per game ratio then using your own login Nugget was a better player for England than Bobby Charlton.

 

You say Gaston is a better player, based on what? It seems to be little more than getting your crystal ball out and saying he'll definitely be playing in the world cup and Johnson definitely wont.

 

Did you seriously look at every game this season? Jesus christ, you've got issues!! Still doesn't answer the thing you stated as FACT. You said we are playing "much better" under MP than Adkins, when we have taken less points over the same number of games. Is the yardstick for what a good team is how many points they get or how many shots at goal they have?

[Turkish]

No. He's from Middlesbrough. He's good mates with Andrew Davies and has met Adam Johnson plenty of times. He's on about £120k at Sunderland and was on more than that at Man City.

 

He has no idea about Gaston, that's just me wording what I meant badly!

 

There is no way he will be on £120k a week at Sunderland, no way. It was widely reported before he joined that they had a wage cap of £60k and were cutting back on big wages. It was also reported when he signed that he took a pay cut to around £80k a week. Still i'm sure you're mate has given you the full inside story and everyone else is wrong.

[Saint Garrett]

Regardless. Gaston is cheaper, younger and has more end product. He's going to be immense in a few years time I just hope that's still with us.

[Saint Garrett]

There is no way he will be on £120k a week at Sunderland, no way. It was widely reported before he joined that they had a wage cap of £60k and were cutting back on big wages. It was also reported when he signed that he took a pay cut to around £80k a week. Still i'm sure you're mate has given you the full inside story and everyone else is wrong.

 

I'm just going on what I've been told. I'm not saying it is definitly true, I believe my mate who knows him rather than some dodgy newspaper

[Turkish]

Regardless. Gaston is cheaper, younger and has more end product. He's going to be immense in a few years time I just hope that's still with us.

 

No He doesn't, he's more expensive and has scored less and set up less!!!

[Barry Sanchez]

If the definition of establish ourselves is to stay up this season then I'd say with 10 games to go that we are on course to do that. We should be able to get another 10 points and I believe that will be enough. I think that was pretty much the concensus view for our objectives this season, but your definition of 'establish ourselves' in one season might be different.

 

Why didnt Adkins or Cortese say staying up was our sole priority then, I have never heard them say that.

[Olallana]

If you can cherry pick so can i. If you think its simply goals per game ratio then using your own login Nugget was a better player for England than Bobby Charlton.

 

You say Gaston is a better player, based on what? It seems to be little more than getting your crystal ball out and saying he'll definitely be playing in the world cup and Johnson definitely wont.

 

Did you seriously look at every game this season? Jesus christ, you've got issues!! Still doesn't answer the thing you stated as FACT. You said we are playing "much better" under MP than Adkins, when we have taken less points over the same number of games. Is the yardstick for what a good team is how many points they get or how many shots at goal they have?

 

 

So 280 games is cherry picking, but you think that a player playing ONE game is statistical safe and a good measurement for that theory about Nugent??

Sounds very logical.....really.

 

You brought up that Johnson had a better value for money due to the statistics that was shown, which obviously by those stats weren´t true. That´s all I referred to in that part.

 

Is Gaston a better player or not?

In my opinion definately, but that is an opinion. We can try to remember what I said come next summer to see if that opinion was wrong or not.

I didn´t know that opinions were forbidden here, or that you have to say that it is in every sentence when you have an opinion.....my bad....

 

Did I look at every game, yes. It took me about 30 minutes so dont worry, I didn´t waste too much time on it.

 

I was saying that in the long run the team will most likely be more successful if they keep dominating games, as my stats showed.

Under MP we have been the better team on that in 5 of 6 games, 83% of the games. In the 6th one against Newcastle we had the same amount of shots as they had.

Key words were "in the long run", and that´s not about the 6 games we have played....

 

Yes we have slightly less points than under Adkins. 5 points from 6 games instead of 22 points from 22 games.

One victory saturday will change that.

 

So if we win saturday, will you come out here saying that we are better under MP, since it appears to be all about the points??

[Barry Sanchez]

Regardless. Gaston is cheaper, younger and has more end product. He's going to be immense in a few years time I just hope that's still with us.

 

Can you also tell me about the weather in a couple of years, of to meet Veron and Djemba Djemba.........................

[The Kraken]

No He doesn't, he's more expensive and has scored less and set up less!!!

 

Out of Johnson and Ramirez, I know which player I'd rather have in the side. I'll give you a clue; it isn't Ramirez.

[Saint Garrett]

No He doesn't, he's more expensive and has scored less and set up less!!!

 

He's played 9 games less and has 5 years less experience in this league. If you want to write him of that's up to you but I'm quite happy giving our players full support thanks.

[Saint Garrett]

Out of Johnson and Ramirez, I know which player I'd rather have in the side. I'll give you a clue; it isn't Ramirez.

 

In the middle, Gaston. Out wide, Johnson. Only reason people are comparing him to Johnson and Jarvis are because they're all left footed!!

[Turkish]

He's played 9 games less and has 5 years less experience in this league. If you want to write him of that's up to you but I'm quite happy giving our players full support thanks.

 

I'm not writing him off, like every young player at Saints he has the all important qualities of being young,hungry and guarenteed to improve . Looking at the stats right now though that you're using to back up your case that Gaston is amazing and all the others are so bad Johnson has played more, scored more, created more and cost less. It's fair to say right now Sunderland have had better value for money have they not?

[The Kraken]

In the middle, Gaston. Out wide, Johnson. Only reason people are comparing him to Johnson and Jarvis are because they're all left footed!!

 

No; I meant if it was a straight choice between signing one player or the other. A midfield front 3 of Johnson Lallana Puncheon would be pretty decent.

 

gaston clearly has some skills; I'm yet to see much to suggest that he's going to be immense in years to come though.

[Turkish]

So 280 games is cherry picking, but you think that a player playing ONE game is statistical safe and a good measurement for that theory about Nugent??

Sounds very logical.....really.

 

You brought up that Johnson had a better value for money due to the statistics that was shown, which obviously by those stats weren´t true. That´s all I referred to in that part.

 

Is Gaston a better player or not?

In my opinion definately, but that is an opinion. We can try to remember what I said come next summer to see if that opinion was wrong or not.

I didn´t know that opinions were forbidden here, or that you have to say that it is in every sentence when you have an opinion.....my bad....

 

Did I look at every game, yes. It took me about 30 minutes so dont worry, I didn´t waste too much time on it.

 

I was saying that in the long run the team will most likely be more successful if they keep dominating games, as my stats showed.

Under MP we have been the better team on that in 5 of 6 games, 83% of the games. In the 6th one against Newcastle we had the same amount of shots as they had.

Key words were "in the long run", and that´s not about the 6 games we have played....

 

Yes we have slightly less points than under Adkins. 5 points from 6 games instead of 22 points from 22 games.

One victory saturday will change that.

 

So if we win saturday, will you come out here saying that we are better under MP, since it appears to be all about the points??

 

If it's not about points what is it about? Do they award league titles based on who had most shots at goal that season? And now you're contradicting yourself by saying on a long run shots at goal are a guage. When you claimed we were playing "much better" based on 6 games, hardly a long run is it. I think you're confusing yourself sunshine.

[Olallana]

If it's not about points what is it about? Do they award league titles based on who had most shots at goal that season? And now you're contradicting yourself by saying on a long run shots at goal are a guage. When you claimed we were playing "much better" based on 6 games, hardly a long run is it. I think you're confusing yourself sunshine.

 

refusal and ignorance for the truth must be a bliss.......I will try that one sunny day...

 

End of.

[Turkish]

refusal and ignorance for the truth must be a bliss.......I will try that one sunny day...

 

End of.

 

Is 6 games a long enough period to judge if we are playing "much better" or not? Using your shots on goal stats as a guage.

 

Are teams performances based on shots on goal or points obtained?

 

Two very simple questions you seem to struggle to answer.

[Saint Garrett]

I'm not writing him off, like every young player at Saints he has the all important qualities of being young,hungry and guarenteed to improve . Looking at the stats right now though that you're using to back up your case that Gaston is amazing and all the others are so bad Johnson has played more, scored more, created more and cost less. It's fair to say right now Sunderland have had better value for money have they not?

 

Never said Gaston is amazing though have I? I rate him I think he's got huge talent. If he was consistently good all the time, he'd be playing for a top champs league team. Fact is he's very hit and miss and sometimes disappoints especially away from home. However he is worth persevering with as he adds much more quality to our team. On another level to Lallana.

[Turkish]

Never said Gaston is amazing though have I? I rate him I think he's got huge talent. If he was consistently good all the time, he'd be playing for a top champs league team. Fact is he's very hit and miss and sometimes disappoints especially away from home. However he is worth persevering with as he adds much more quality to our team. On another level to Lallana.

 

but you said this "Regardless. Gaston is cheaper, younger and has more end product"

 

When the facts are using your own stats that he is in fact more expensive, scored less, assisted less and played less. Who do you believe right now, has had the best value for money, us or Sunderland?

[Saint Garrett]

but you said this "Regardless. Gaston is cheaper, younger and has more end product"

 

When the facts are using your own stats that he is in fact more expensive, scored less, assisted less and played less. Who do you believe right now, has had the best value for money, us or Sunderland?

 

More goals and assists in less playing time.

[Olallana]

Is 6 games a long enough period to judge if we are playing "much better" or not? Using your shots on goal stats as a guage.

 

Are teams performances based on shots on goal or points obtained?

 

Two very simple questions you seem to struggle to answer.

 

6 games are not enough but I also said that it was compared to last 6 games under Adkins, and even if we ignore the first 10 games of the season we have truely been playing better under MP, even though not getting the fair/right results. But I rather see us struggle now to get sustainable success, and what kind of team will probably get that....the one that parks the bus or the teams that are dominating games?

 

I have never said that it is about shots per game, if you find that I will salute you.

What I have said that there is a better chance getting sustainable success if you are dominating games.

Again, what is so hard to understand from the words...."in the long run".

I want our club to be successful in the long run, and the connection to be that is very clear.

 

And btw, I dont have time to read back and find all the questions from me you have not answered.....there are just too many...

[Olallana]

but you said this "Regardless. Gaston is cheaper, younger and has more end product"

 

When the facts are using your own stats that he is in fact more expensive, scored less, assisted less and played less. Who do you believe right now, has had the best value for money, us or Sunderland?

 

Just for the record. It was tajjuk´s stats.

It was important yesterday whose stats it was so has to be important now I guess.

[Turkish]

6 games are not enough but I also said that it was compared to last 6 games under Adkins, and even if we ignore the first 10 games of the season we have truely been playing better under MP, even though not getting the fair/right results. But I rather see us struggle now to get sustainable success, and what kind of team will probably get that....the one that parks the bus or the teams that are dominating games?

 

I have never said that it is about shots per game, if you find that I will salute you.

What I have said that there is a better chance getting sustainable success if you are dominating games.

Again, what is so hard to understand from the words...."in the long run".

I want our club to be successful in the long run, and the connection to be that is very clear.

 

And btw, I dont have time to read back and find all the questions from me you have not answered.....there are just too many...

 

So now you are saying 6 games are not enough to decide if we are playing "much better" or not. Jesus Christ fella, you really are struggling! This really makes your whole argument redundant now you've admitted your opening point was grossly inaccurate!

[Turkish]

More goals and assists in less playing time.

 

Quite, so he's played more too, you'd rather have an expensive player on the pitch than in the treatment room, yes?

[Olallana]

So now you are saying 6 games are not enough to decide if we are playing "much better" or not. Jesus Christ fella, you really are struggling! This really makes your whole argument redundant now you've admitted your opening point was grossly inaccurate!

 

You really love reading what you want, dont you?

You cant read more than the first 8 words??

 

As I said....(think this is about the 43rd time now) we have been playing better in 6 games under MP than under last 6 games under Adkins.

And if I wasn´t such a nice guy I would compare it to the whole season and the first 10 games which compared to now was awful....just awful.

We were battered game in, game out except for Aston Villa at home.....

 

If you dont agree with me fine....but all the players are saying the same and maybe you should trust them enough....?

[Saint Garrett]

I'd rather have a player who makes something happen on the pitch than just wander about taking in the money doing **** all.

[The Kraken]

I'd rather have a player who makes something happen on the pitch than just wander about taking in the money doing **** all.

 

But Johnson has scored more and assisted more than Ramirez in total. How is that doing f*ck all?

[Turkish]

You really love reading what you want, dont you?

You cant read more than the first 8 words??

 

As I said....(think this is about the 43rd time now) we have been playing better in 6 games under MP than under last 6 games under Adkins.

And if I wasn´t such a nice guy I would compare it to the whole season and the first 10 games which compared to now was awful....just awful.

We were battered game in, game out except for Aston Villa at home.....

 

If you dont agree with me fine....but all the players are saying the same and maybe you should trust them enough....?

 

no, no, no. You clearly said at the start of this discussion we are playing "much better" under MP, then listed our shots at goal as evidence of this, dismissing us taking less points. Now you are saying shots at goal is only relevant over a long period of time and 6 games is not enough to be sure if we are indeed playing "much better" or not. You seem to be back peddling, i cant say i blame you.

[Turkish]

I'd rather have a player who makes something happen on the pitch than just wander about taking in the money doing **** all.

 

But Johnson has scored more and assisted more than Ramirez in total. How is that doing f*ck all?

 

and he's played more. Which one is doing **** all out of the two?

[Olallana]

no, no, no. You clearly said at the start of this discussion we are playing "much better" under MP, then listed our shots at goal as evidence of this, dismissing us taking less points. Now you are saying shots at goal is only relevant over a long period of time and 6 games is not enough to be sure if we are indeed playing "much better" or not. You seem to be back peddling, i cant say i blame you.

 

I will cut and copy my first answer under this.

And I compared 15 last games, not 12. Sorry for that, a truely blatant error of me referring to last 12 games now of course.

I am talking about the future. For me that is pretty much as saying in the long run, if it is not to you we relate to words in different ways I guess....

I am also referring to that teams that are more consistent in dominating games win more games (that would be that I am referring to the top teams if you dont understand)

 

 

No we have not played better under MP, we have played MUCH better.

For the fun of it I have checked some stats on total shots and shots on goal in our last 15 games.

 

It´s easy to see that under MP we have dominated those stats in every game but the Newcastle one, and even in that one whick most people think was a poor game we had more shots on goal than them.

 

Now we have a team and manager with a bright future cause why do you think teams like Man U, Man C, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea are in the top of the table every year?

Yes, cause they are dominating games and producing more chances than other teams.

 

No, we are not there yet because we lack that final bit of quality but to score goals you have to produce chances and that is what we have been doing the last games much more the last 6 games than earlier this season.

 

Saints-QPR 17–5 (9-3) total shots (shots on goal)

Newcastle-Saints 11–11 (5-7)

Saints- Man C 13-7 (7-4)

Wigan-Saints 5-15 (3-7)

Man U-Saints 11-21 (7-10)

Saints-Everton 14-10 (11-7)

 

Chelsea-Saints 19-7 (10-3)

Aston V-Saints 16-11 (10-4)

Saints-Chelsea 7-15 (5-12)

Saints-Arsenal 9-6 (6-4)

Stoke-Saints 10-8 (8-7)

Fulham-Saints 10-7 (2-3)

Saints-Sunderland 13-10 (7-6)

Saints-Reading 18-6 (9-2)

Liverpool-Saints 24-8 (11-4)

 

Stats are from BBC.

[Turkish]

I will cut and copy my first answer under this.

And I compared 15 last games, not 12. Sorry for that, a truely blatant error of me referring to last 12 games now of course.

I am talking about the future. For me that is pretty much as saying in the long run, if it is not to you we relate to words in different ways I guess....

I am also referring to that teams that are more consistent in dominating games win more games (that would be that I am referring to the top teams if you dont understand)

 

 

No we have not played better under MP, we have played MUCH better.

For the fun of it I have checked some stats on total shots and shots on goal in our last 15 games.

 

It´s easy to see that under MP we have dominated those stats in every game but the Newcastle one, and even in that one whick most people think was a poor game we had more shots on goal than them.

 

Now we have a team and manager with a bright future cause why do you think teams like Man U, Man C, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea are in the top of the table every year?

Yes, cause they are dominating games and producing more chances than other teams.

 

No, we are not there yet because we lack that final bit of quality but to score goals you have to produce chances and that is what we have been doing the last games much more the last 6 games than earlier this season.

 

Saints-QPR 17–5 (9-3) total shots (shots on goal)

Newcastle-Saints 11–11 (5-7)

Saints- Man C 13-7 (7-4)

Wigan-Saints 5-15 (3-7)

Man U-Saints 11-21 (7-10)

Saints-Everton 14-10 (11-7)

 

Chelsea-Saints 19-7 (10-3)

Aston V-Saints 16-11 (10-4)

Saints-Chelsea 7-15 (5-12)

Saints-Arsenal 9-6 (6-4)

Stoke-Saints 10-8 (8-7)

Fulham-Saints 10-7 (2-3)

Saints-Sunderland 13-10 (7-6)

Saints-Reading 18-6 (9-2)

Liverpool-Saints 24-8 (11-4)

 

Stats are from BBC.

 

But you say six games not a long enough period to measure if we are playing "much better" or not. MP has been here six games, so from your own admission you simply cannot say if we are playing "much better" or not as you havent had long enough to judge this.

 

and again you've failed to answer to the success of teams is measured by shots on goal or points.

[Saint Garrett]

But Johnson has scored more and assisted more than Ramirez in total. How is that doing f*ck all?

 

And has had 9(NINE) more games to do so. From an extra 9(NINE) more games you'd expect more from him.

[Olallana]

But you say six games not a long enough period to measure if we are playing "much better" or not. MP has been here six games, so from your own admission you simply cannot say if we are playing "much better" or not as you havent had long enough to judge this.

 

and again you've failed to answer to the success of teams is measured by shots on goal or points.

you really DON´T read the posts.....

post #174. Lines 4 to 7.

 

 

6 games is not enough to show sustainable progress. But it has only been 6 games so that is what we can make judgement of?

And from that 6 games the judgement is just that, we have been playing better.

 

Or is it that I cant make my judgements now.....then why can you and/or others judge that we have been worse during those 6 games?

Are we all not doing the things after the same standard here?

 

Btw if we´re talking about answering questions or not.

If we win saturday, will you start a thread here that we are better under MP?

[The Kraken]

And has had 9(NINE) more games to do so. From an extra 9(NINE) more games you'd expect more from him.

 

I don't think top scorer or top assist charts at the end of the season are caculated on an average of the number of games played. I could be wrong on that one, but I don't think so.

[Saint Garrett]

I don't think top scorer or top assist charts at the end of the season are caculated on an average of the number of games played. I could be wrong on that one, but I don't think so.

 

That's got nothing to do with it?!? The discussion is who has done more on the pitch.

[Turkish]

That's got nothing to do with it?!? The discussion is who has done more on the pitch.

 

So that'll be Johnson then. More goals, more assists.

[Turkish]

you really DON´T read the posts.....

post #174. Lines 4 to 7.

 

 

6 games is not enough to show sustainable progress. But it has only been 6 games so that is what we can make judgement of?

And from that 6 games the judgement is just that, we have been playing better.

 

Or is it that I cant make my judgements now.....then why can you and/or others judge that we have been worse during those 6 games?

Are we all not doing the things after the same standard here?

 

Btw if we´re talking about answering questions or not.

If we win saturday, will you start a thread here that we are better under MP?

 

Have we been playing better we've got less points? Are teams league positions defied on points or shots on goal? And nice try but it wasn't me claiming we at doing 'much better' based on the last 6 games. That'll be you. First you say 6 games is enough to judge then you say it isn't then you say it is again because we only have 6 as evidence. Confused?!

 

T

As for my post On if we win, is 7 games is now the acceptable benchmark for a long period of games to measure if we are 'much better' or not?

Edited 7 March, 2013 by Turkish

[Saint Garrett]

So that'll be Johnson then. More goals, more assists.

 

[The Kraken]

That's got nothing to do with it?!? The discussion is who has done more on the pitch.

 

If that's the discussion, then the answer is clearly Johnson. This season he has scored one more goal and assisted one more goal. He has also played more, meaning he has literally "done more on the pitch".

[Saint Garrett]

Gaston has done more when on the pitch than Johnson. Fact

[The Kraken]

Gaston has done more when on the pitch than Johnson. Fact

 

Shame he hasn't managed it on there as often then.

[Saint Garrett]

Yep I agree.

[Turkish]

 

Oh dear resorting to facepalm is a sign of losing the argument. I'm yet to see a convincing answer from you as to why Gaston had been so much better and we've got so much more value for money.

 

The evidence is clear. Johnson has played more, scored more and set up more, what else do you want? You might not like and it and make up little stories implying Johnson does nothing for his money but they are the facts. Just because you don't like them it doesn't mean they're wrong.

Edited 8 March, 2013 by Turkish

[Saint Garrett]

But gaston has contributed more in the time he has been on the pitch. Lets put it this way....if they'd both played the same amount of games then the stats would considerably favour Gaston and for £50k less per week a lot cheaper too.

[Turkish]

But gaston has contributed more in the time he has been on the pitch. Lets put it this way....if they'd both played the same amount of games then the stats would considerably favour Gaston and for £50k less per week a lot cheaper too.

 

Pure speculation in what might have happened then. So if we'd signed a player for £20m and they'd played twice and scored twice but been injured the rest of the season then they'd have been a great signing, yes? Love the way you've made up their wages as well, £50k a week less. GAston is a better player based not on what they've actually done but on what might have happened and a made up wage :lol:

[Wade Garrett]

Why would you spend £30M to replace one bunch of squad players with another set of squad players? Why not get players in who are better than you have, then the previous first teamers become the squad players?

 

Of the players we brought in over the summer only 4 have usurped others to be genuine first team players (Yoshida, Clyne, Boruc, Ramirez). That cost us around £20M. We've spent around another £15M on squad players in Rodriguez, Mayuka, S.Davis, Gazzaniga and Forren. That's a huge amount to pay for an improved subs bench.

 

Rodriguez is growing into an excellent player, Davis is very capable at this level as well. Mayuka and Gazzaniga, I reckon that money could definitely have been better spent. Forren, I don't know. But I find it staggering that he is still lacking fitness.

[Wade Garrett]

Watched Gaston close up last week. His first touch is outstanding, but I was getting annoyed that he was finding space and making himself available, but team mates preferred the easy option of checking back all the time. He does need to knock the fancy flicks on the head though, they didn't come off for him a couple of times last week, and cost us possession in dangerous areas of the pitch.

He is a quality player who is just going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment. Stick with him, class is permanent.