Transfers-In; How succesful?

[Saint Garrett]

Loads of people mentioned how we should have been after players with prem experience in the summer. People were moaning that they were signing all these amazing players....

[S-Clarke]

Loads of people mentioned how we should have been after players with prem experience in the summer. People were moaning that they were signing all these amazing players....

 

A few moaned about QPR signing, but not too many. From what I remember, the common view was that they were spending way too much on washed up players. Which has proven to be the case generally.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

A few moaned about QPR signing, but not too many. From what I remember, the common view was that they were spending way too much on washed up players. Which has proven to be the case generally.

 

Not saying a lot did this, but there were definitely one or two that even moaned about Reading doing much better than us in Transfers.

 

Frankly, I'd much rather have the players we got than the ones they got.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I always thought our transfer strategy was very clear - in fact I find it clearer than most.

 

The challenge has always been executing it given the very particular aspects of it and our standing in the game.

 

I've always interpreted our strategy as:

1. Buy young players who we will seek to grow and develop with the club

2. They must be hungry and fit into a wage structure

3. The transfer fee will be reflective of their potential as much as what they will contribute 'right now'

4. The agents fee must be very low

 

The only exceptions I've seen to the above is when an experienced player is available for a very cheap fee (and still fits into the wage structure).

 

The risk in all this is:

 

1. Bigger clubs are after the same sorts of players

2. Whilst one of our selling points is first team football, our other risk is that the player has to come in and perform straight away so we don't get relegated.

3. We buy players who simply do not push on as expected

 

The first risk has seen us miss out on players (either because their club will not sell or better clubs come in for them) and the second risk is what we've seen a bit this season with up and down performances. The third risk remains to be seen whether or not we'll experience it.

 

Right now I think we've done ok with transfers - there has been difficulty in executing the strategy for the reasons mentioned, and the signings seem ok to me. However, I would definitely be disappointed if this level of performance was all that was going to come from them.

[alpine_saint]

Imo, if you consider our activity in money terms (30m spent) about half of that money appears not to have really worked for the team in the expected manner.

[Saint Garrett]

Imo, if you consider our activity in money terms (30m spent) about half of that money appears not to have really worked for the team in the expected manner.

But the money was spent on talent AND POTENTIAL!!! You cannot measure potential within 6 months of the players signing.

[alpine_saint]

But the money was spent on talent AND POTENTIAL!!! You cannot measure potential within 6 months of the players signing.

 

I have nothing against such a strategy, but our first priority was to establish ourselves quickly at this level in order to be able to continually attract such talent and potential on a regular basis; imo, of course...

[Saint Garrett]

But the club clearly had faith in the players that we already had. Players like Fonte, Shaw, Cork, Morgan, Lambert, Lallana, Puncheon. Whether it is proved right or not is another matter. But I'm glad we didnt buy a load of old timers looking for their last pay day.

[Turkish]

I have nothing against such a strategy, but our first priority was to establish ourselves quickly at this level in order to be able to continually attract such talent and potential on a regular basis; imo, of course...

 

Absolutely correct. Our priority should have been establishing ourselves in this division, then signing players with talent and potential to enable them to flourish in a settled, established side. Not expecting them to perform in one which is finiding its feet itself.

[CB Fry]

But the money was spent on talent AND POTENTIAL!!! You cannot measure potential within 6 months of the players signing.

 

 

 

Forren is 25, Mayuka 23 this year. Not exactly callow, fresh faced kids. Not writing them off but they should be challenging for first team spots, Forren especially.

[Turkish]

But the club clearly had faith in the players that we already had. Players like Fonte, Shaw, Cork, Morgan, Lambert, Lallana, Puncheon. Whether it is proved right or not is another matter. But I'm glad we didnt buy a load of old timers looking for their last pay day.

 

The classic reponse. Like it was in the summer where whenever anyone mentioned signing experience the name Kerian Dyer was used as evidence as to why we didn't need it. We could quite easily have picked up two or three experienced players to help the younger ones along, especially in the early games when we were struggling. We didn't we gambled on youth and potential. Our premier league future is by no means certain at the moment, but it could have been if thered have been a bit more experience and know how in the side. We could well have seen out the games at Stoke, Wigan and home to Swansea and Norwich with a couple of players who knew how to defend properly and close a game down.

[Bearsy]

I wish we'd gone for Bassong, I reckon we'd be above Norwich if we'd of gazumped that deal.

[Turkish]

i wish we'd gone for bassong, i reckon we'd be above norwich if we'd of gazumped that deal.

 

fact

[Saint Garrett]

Forren is 25, Mayuka 23 this year. Not exactly callow, fresh faced kids. Not writing them off but they should be challenging for first team spots, Forren especially.

 

Mayuka was 21 when he joined.

[tajjuk]

The classic reponse. Like it was in the summer where whenever anyone mentioned signing experience the name Kerian Dyer was used as evidence as to why we didn't need it. We could quite easily have picked up two or three experienced players to help the younger ones along, especially in the early games when we were struggling. We didn't we gambled on youth and potential. Our premier league future is by no means certain at the moment, but it could have been if thered have been a bit more experience and know how in the side. We could well have seen out the games at Stoke, Wigan and home to Swansea and Norwich with a couple of players who knew how to defend properly and close a game down.

 

 

Premiership experience guarantees little, QPR's obvious example aside.

 

But also as an example:-

 

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Premiership experience guarantees little, QPR's obvious example aside.

 

But also as an example:-

 

 

 

FFS Gaston was such a waste of money.

[Olallana]

Premiership experience guarantees little, QPR's obvious example aside.

 

But also as an example:-

 

 

Oh, stats. I like it.

 

But get prepared, just sayin....

[Turkish]

Premiership experience guarantees little, QPR's obvious example aside.

 

But also as an example:-

 

 

nice bit of cherry picking. Although massive fail as Johnson was cheaper, has scored more and has more assists. Clearly better value for money using your own stats.

Edited 7 March, 2013 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Oh, stats. I like it.

 

But get prepared, just sayin....

 

Ramirez proves yout theory of more shots = more goals wrong. He averages almost twice as many as Johnson but has scored one less. more stats to prove you wrong.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

nice bit of cherry picking. Although massive fail as Johnson was cheaper, has scored more and has more assists. Clearly better value for money using your own stats.

 

In 9 more appearances, Johnson has one more of both.

 

Seeing as Gaston is averaging a goal & assist every 5 games, in those extra 9 games, he could well be equal to or outperforming Johnson on both those criteria.

 

C'mon Turks, you can do better than that.

[110_Persaint]

In 9 more appearances, Johnson has one more of both.

 

Seeing as Gaston is averaging a goal & assist every 5 games, in those extra 9 games, he could well be equal to or outperforming Johnson on both those criteria.

 

C'mon Turks, you can do better than that.

Do you actually know anything at all about sarcasm?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Do you actually know anything at all about sarcasm?

 

What's this sarcasm of which you speak oh wise oracle?

[Turkish]

In 9 more appearances, Johnson has one more of both.

 

Seeing as Gaston is averaging a goal & assist every 5 games, in those extra 9 games, he could well be equal to or outperforming Johnson on both those criteria.

 

C'mon Turks, you can do better than that.

 

Well pointed out. Johnson also cost less and has played more, another tick in the "johnson is better value for money" column.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Well pointed out. Johnson also cost less and has played more, another tick in the "johnson is better value for money" column.

 

Ah yes, how silly of me.

 

I totes forgot it was completely Gaston's fault he was injured. Duhh.

[Turkish]

Ah yes, how silly of me.

 

I totes forgot it was completely Gaston's fault he was injured. Duhh.

 

Clearly signing proven premier league experience doesn't get you injury prone foreigners who can only last 60 minutes.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Clearly signing proven premier league experience doesn't get you injury prone foreigners who can only last 60 minutes.

 

There's no need for the xenophobic overtones.

 

I doubt that where someone is born has much impact on how prone they are to injuries.

[Turkish]

There's no need for the xenophobic overtones.

 

I doubt that where someone is born has much impact on how prone they are to injuries.

 

It was you lot who started trying to prove foreign players are better.

[Saint Garrett]

Gaston has also had to deal with a close family members death as well. Can't have been easy for him since hes moved to England.

[110_Persaint]

Can we just come to a consensus on the following: Gaston Ramirez is an immensely talented player, but so far, pretty much all season, he has not been arsed and not bothered to show up thus rendering him ineffectual and thus a liability to the team and thus a complete waste of money? Cheers.

[Dig Dig]

Can we just come to a consensus on the following: Gaston Ramirez is an immensely talented player, but so far, pretty much all season, he has not been arsed and not bothered to show up thus rendering him ineffectual and thus a liability to the team and thus a complete waste of money? Cheers.

 

He would be much more effective if he had better and quicker movement in front of him. Clyne's goal against Villa is a good example. Make the run and he will spot it. We don't do enough of that.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

It was you lot who started trying to prove foreign players are better.

 

I never made a comment about where a player was from.

[John B]

I have nothing against such a strategy, but our first priority was to establish ourselves quickly at this level in order to be able to continually attract such talent and potential on a regular basis; imo, of course...

 

The problem I have with the strategy is that not all players with potential make it you just have to look at players such as Carroll and Bentley;

[Professor]

Another thread on this necessary?

 

Besides, you also haven't mentioned Billy Sharp.

 

3 pages and 131 contributions as at 17.40 07.03.2013 suggest it was. Always hard to understand people who criticise a subject for discussion, because if you don't like it, surely you don't post! Thanks for the reminder about Billy Sharp, though as he did well for us last season so his eviction from the squad was inexplicable, given that no explanation was offered to the fans.

 

What seems wrong about the transfer-in record is that the manager appears to have little or no say on whom is recruited, but is then required to carry the can if the bought in players fail to perform. Not just Saints and Adkins, but Chelsea and Torres comes to mind. Maybe the problem is the rich owners imposing their will on the football professionals they employ but seemimgly fail to respect

[KelvinsRightGlove]

3 pages and 131 contributions as at 17.40 07.03.2013 suggest it was. Always hard to understand people who criticise a subject for discussion, because if you don't like it, surely you don't post! Thanks for the reminder about Billy Sharp, though as he did well for us last season so his eviction from the squad was inexplicable, given that no explanation was offered to the fans.

 

What seems wrong about the transfer-in record is that the manager appears to have little or no say on whom is recruited, but is then required to carry the can if the bought in players fail to perform. Not just Saints and Adkins, but Chelsea and Torres comes to mind. Maybe the problem is the rich owners imposing their will on the football professionals they employ but seemimgly fail to respect

 

Considering the amount of threads we have had about the perceived failings of transfers over the past couple of years I really didn't think another one was necessary. Especially seeing as a lot of the same things are being said again.

 

Why should the club explain why it decided to sell/loan out a player?

[Alanh]

I have nothing against such a strategy, but our first priority was to establish ourselves quickly at this level in order to be able to continually attract such talent and potential on a regular basis; imo, of course...

 

If the definition of establish ourselves is to stay up this season then I'd say with 10 games to go that we are on course to do that. We should be able to get another 10 points and I believe that will be enough. I think that was pretty much the concensus view for our objectives this season, but your definition of 'establish ourselves' in one season might be different.

[Olallana]

Ramirez proves yout theory of more shots = more goals wrong. He averages almost twice as many as Johnson but has scored one less. more stats to prove you wrong.

 

Yes, 1 goal every 6th game is definately better than 1 goal every 5th game.....clearly, how could we miss that!

 

And again, if a player takes 1 shot per game, and the other one takes 2 shot per game. Who will potentially have the possibility to score twice?

[Olallana]

Well pointed out. Johnson also cost less and has played more, another tick in the "johnson is better value for money" column.

 

You think Johnson is on a lower wage than Gaston??

Really?

 

Going from Man C with his wage there, you think he drops the wage very much??

 

Costs for a club is not all about signing fee.

[Saint Garrett]

Johnson is on about 120k per week...

[Olallana]

Johnson is on about 120k per week...

 

so basically the difference in signing fee is gone after the first year....

[Dalek2003]

The classic reponse. Like it was in the summer where whenever anyone mentioned signing experience the name Kerian Dyer was used as evidence as to why we didn't need it. We could quite easily have picked up two or three experienced players to help the younger ones along, especially in the early games when we were struggling. We didn't we gambled on youth and potential. Our premier league future is by no means certain at the moment, but it could have been if thered have been a bit more experience and know how in the side. We could well have seen out the games at Stoke, Wigan and home to Swansea and Norwich with a couple of players who knew how to defend properly and close a game down.

 

Well said ! I was continously rebuked in the summer for saying as much !

[Dalek2003]

I look at that list of acquisitions and conclude that the club management werent particularly serious about consolidating our PL membership this season....

 

Said it all along. Ever heard of the 'yoyo' strategy ?

[Turkish]

Yes, 1 goal every 6th game is definately better than 1 goal every 5th game.....clearly, how could we miss that!

 

And again, if a player takes 1 shot per game, and the other one takes 2 shot per game. Who will potentially have the possibility to score twice?

 

David Nuget has a better goals per game ratio for England than Bobby Charlton, clearly he is the better player for England using your logic.

[Turkish]

Johnson is on about 120k per week...

 

At Sunderland he's on £80k a week. Ramirez isnt far off.

[Saint Garrett]

At Sunderland he's on £80k a week. Ramirez isnt far off.

 

Not what I've heard....and I know someone who is good mates with him...

 

Gaston is on about £60k...

[Olallana]

David Nuget has a better goals per game ratio for England than Bobby Charlton, clearly he is the better player for England using your logic.

 

Great example, hats off to you. You are clearly raising your level Sir!

 

Still, Gaston is a better player, that next year will be playing in the World Cup for a stronger team, Adam Johnson will not in a weaker team.

 

 

And by the way sweetie, have been looking at every one of the 280 games in EPL this year just for your sake.

 

Results for the team with most shots in the game is.....

136 wins.

81 draws.

63 losses.

 

Still think the successful way is to have less shots in the games?

[The Kraken]

Not what I've heard....and I know someone who is good mates with him...

 

Gaston is on about £60k...

 

Either your mate is wrong or Gaston lied when he gave an interview, saying he's on 2M euros a year after tax. 2M a year is 40K per week after tax. Higher rate tax at 50% plus NI. He also received a signing on bonus of 1M euros, which has to be factored in as a wage of sorts.

 

So even if your mate is correct, given the signing on fee there's really not much in salary between the two.

[Saint Garrett]

No. He's from Middlesbrough. He's good mates with Andrew Davies and has met Adam Johnson plenty of times. He's on about £120k at Sunderland and was on more than that at Man City.

 

He has no idea about Gaston, that's just me wording what I meant badly!

[Saint Garrett]

And it won't all be 50%rate will it, there are different tax bands.

[Olallana]

Either your mate is wrong or Gaston lied when he gave an interview, saying he's on 2M euros a year after tax. 2M a year is 40K per week after tax. Higher rate tax at 50% plus NI. He also received a signing on bonus of 1M euros, which has to be factored in as a wage of sorts.

 

So even if your mate is correct, given the signing on fee there's really not much in salary between the two.

 

 

And Adam Johnson did not recieve any signing on bonus? (dont know but think that is probable...)

And what about the sum that he got from Man C to compensate his wage cut?

[The Kraken]

And Adam Johnson did not recieve any signing on bonus? (dont know but think that is probable...)

And what about the sum that he got from Man C to compensate his wage cut?

 

Fill us in if you know the figures, if they exist. Mine came from the horse's mouth, hence passing them on. I'm all ears for what Johnson's equivalents are though.