Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Who has had a better season so far? Both have been disrupted by injury, one has a £12m price tag, the other is said to be worth that much. I just wonder whether or not as fans we are being overly harsh on Ramirez and not tough enough on our own home grown player? I hope that if we stay up a full pre-season with those 3 operating behind Rickie will reap rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Adam has been more influent IMO. 2 goals and 5 assists (most in our team), and I think his defensive contribution is better than some on here claims it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Adam has been more influent IMO. 2 goals and 5 assists (most in our team), and I think his defensive contribution is better than some on here claims it to be. He has 6 assists, and that's not the most: Lambert has 8. But yeah, I agree Lallana personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 I would say both have not had great seasons. Rameriez adjusting to life and football in the UK. However, when on song, he really is a class act - need to get consistency into his game. I think lallana has taken time to adjust to the EPL as well and injury has set him back. The captaincy is just an added distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 5 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Adam has been more influent IMO. 2 goals and 5 assists (most in our team), and I think his defensive contribution is better than some on here claims it to be. Ramirez has 4 goals and 4 assists. I know not be all and end all, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Ramirez>Lallana Both not been great though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Ramirez has been inconsistent this season. Class act against aston villa, Newcastle , Everton But not great in other games. We should give him time, he is still very young and needs Time to adapt. Javier pastore, a 36 million pound signing from Palermo to PSG last year was not that great in his first season, started off brightly then faded off. This season and récently he has been very very good and is starting to justify his privé tag. Players cannot turn it on straight away and need Time to adapt to the league they are in. Yes there are exceptions but the majority of Players do need Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 (edited) Who has had a better season so far? Both have been disrupted by injury, one has a £12m price tag, the other is said to be worth that much. I just wonder whether or not as fans we are being overly harsh on Ramirez and not tough enough on our own home grown player? I hope that if we stay up a full pre-season with those 3 operating behind Rickie will reap rewards. Think the highlighted section about shows it. Both have been injured several times (both again on Saturday by the looks of things) neither have had a very consistent run in the team. Both are inconsistent young attackers in their first premier league season. I can't really fault their contribution considering their injuries. yeh they could have been better but they have 34 starts between them from a possible 54, 6 goals, 8 assists. in a stop start season for a relegation threatened team. They could be worse, they could be Downing. Our possibly best player this season is Morgan, he's started every game. Shows the benefit of having a run of games, staying fit and getting in form. Edited 5 March, 2013 by tajjuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rshephard3 Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Maybe both are best judged next season after having this season to adjust to the Prem somewhat. Think they could both be useful next season. I really like Lallana and think he's exciting but can't help thinking Ramirez has more potential to be a top top player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Maybe both are best judged next season after having this season to adjust to the Prem somewhat. Think they could both be useful next season. I really like Lallana and think he's exciting but can't help thinking Ramirez has more potential to be a top top player. No, they'll be judged this season, same as all the other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 No, they'll be judged this season, same as all the other players. That's such a naive way to view things though. I know some people on here think half an u21s game is enough to judge a player on, but it really isn't. There are countless players that have come to the Prem, and taken time to adjust, often a full season. Ramirez will be a class player, whether that is with us or not. I agree he has been frustrating at times, and his tendency to go AWOL at times can be maddening. However, I have no doubts he will come good, he's what? Just 22? He's clearly far from finished, and to expect otherwise is foolish. Granted, that isn't necessarily what we need right now, we need performances ASAP, but that is hardly Gaston's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxosponge Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 I reckon they are about equal: at ending on their arses that is, with their hands up appealing whilst being out of the game and unable to cover against the inevitable counter attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 That's such a naive way to view things though. I know some people on here think half an u21s game is enough to judge a player on, but it really isn't. There are countless players that have come to the Prem, and taken time to adjust, often a full season. Ramirez will be a class player, whether that is with us or not. I agree he has been frustrating at times, and his tendency to go AWOL at times can be maddening. However, I have no doubts he will come good, he's what? Just 22? He's clearly far from finished, and to expect otherwise is foolish. Granted, that isn't necessarily what we need right now, we need performances ASAP, but that is hardly Gaston's fault. I agree with much of what you say. I think Ramirez has bags of talent. and likely to play better with a few seasons under his belt (and a team set-up to play to his strengths), but that doesn't mean we can't comment of how he or Lallana has played this season. We're paying an absolute fortune for him - it's naive too just shrug our shoulders and say "wait for next year". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 I think both players have generally flattered to decisive so far, although I would say Lallana has been the better of the 2. Frustratingly, both players seasons have been dictated somewhat by injury which makes it hard for anyone to make a consistent impact on the team. Lallana for me has contributed more than Ramirez this season in terms of overall play - that's not say Ramirez is a bad player, far from it, but I kind of feel that he's playing inside of his ability most weeks. Whether that's down to adapting to the new country and culture, or more to do with the style of play in this league and his struggle to adapt to the physical side. If I'm honest, I feel it's the latter. There is undoubted quality in there, no doubts about that, but he's all too often brushed off the ball, knocked off the ball - or injured during or prior to games. You'd hope that a decent pre-season of strength building would give him a better platform for next year. (same could be said for a couple more of our players to be honest). For 12m though, I did expect a little more by now. He's contributed, but is far too often ''invisible'' in away games and we kind of need a player like him to step up and win us a tight match. I'm not writing him off at all, it would be silly to write someone off with so much talent which was clearly evident in the Newcastle and Villa home games. We just haven't seen enough of it on a consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 I get the argument that Ramirez is still adjusting to life in a new country and PL football in general, and it's clear he does have talent, but I still feel he is lacking in some really basic areas. Things like hitting quality free-kicks into the danger area instead of just wasting them (as he invariably does) have nothing to do with 'adjusting'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 I agree with much of what you say. I think Ramirez has bags of talent. and likely to play better with a few seasons under his belt (and a team set-up to play to his strengths), but that doesn't mean we can't comment of how he or Lallana has played this season. We're paying an absolute fortune for him - it's naive too just shrug our shoulders and say "wait for next year". I do understand what you are saying, and I don't think it's totally unfair. Unfortunately, it's not always as simple as we are paying 'x' so should be getting 'y' from him (if only!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoneuelllfanclub Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 both are very good players individually however I am not convinced they can both be accommodated in the same team. They are luxury players and require freedom to express themselves which can be to the detriment of the team especially if both of them play. they would probably benefit from having a fast striker up top as they dont have the pace to go beyond lambert and get in behind the defence therefore they are restricted by lamberts style of play. this is exactly why we are far too predictable and pedestrian like when we play 3 attacking midfielders behind lambert. lallana, puncheon, ramirez and davis do not have the pace to get behind the defence so everything in played in front of lambert and it is a lot easier to defend against. QPR, swansea and sunderland home were prime example of this. i actually think jrod gives us a lot more variety and options when on the attack. he makes striker like runs and has the pace to get behind the defence which actually gives lambert more space and time. it is no coincidence that we create far more good chances when jrod plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 both are very good players individually however I am not convinced they can both be accommodated in the same team. They are luxury players and require freedom to express themselves which can be to the detriment of the team especially if both of them play. they would probably benefit from having a fast striker up top as they dont have the pace to go beyond lambert and get in behind the defence therefore they are restricted by lamberts style of play. this is exactly why we are far too predictable and pedestrian like when we play 3 attacking midfielders behind lambert. lallana, puncheon, ramirez and davis do not have the pace to get behind the defence so everything in played in front of lambert and it is a lot easier to defend against. QPR, swansea and sunderland home were prime example of this. i actually think jrod gives us a lot more variety and options when on the attack. he makes striker like runs and has the pace to get behind the defence which actually gives lambert more space and time. it is no coincidence that we create far more good chances when jrod plays. I don't usually buy into the whole "we need pace, we need pace" argument. However, in this case I think there may be a point. A pacey striker would naturally make defenders sit a little deeper, which in turn leaves slightly more room for player like Gaston, AL & even JP to do what they are good at, and get on the ball and move it around. I'm not saying chuck Lambert on the scrap heap, as he clearly brings a lot to our team, so perhaps it is about learning how to get the best out of the current attacking players we have at our disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaptopSaint Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 I'm not sure anyone else in our squad would have had the nerve to finish like Gaston did against QPR. Absolute ****ing quality. But he's been chronically inconsistent. We can all (well most of us) see the flashes of genius - now he needs to do it much more often. I'm still optimistic for season 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 I don't usually buy into the whole "we need pace, we need pace" argument. However, in this case I think there may be a point. A pacey striker would naturally make defenders sit a little deeper, which in turn leaves slightly more room for player like Gaston, AL & even JP to do what they are good at, and get on the ball and move it around. I'm not saying chuck Lambert on the scrap heap, as he clearly brings a lot to our team, so perhaps it is about learning how to get the best out of the current attacking players we have at our disposal. Gaston is quicker than any of our forwards bar maybe Mayuka I reckon. Plus some of our most creative and attacking games have featured Ramirez and Lallana. Like Villa at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Think with Lallana is, despite getting himself into some great areas to put a decent ball in the box, or get into a goalscoring opportunity, we very rarely actually do anything with it. He takes too many touches when in goal scoring opportunities and rarely puts a good ball in the box. Do think we'd see more out of Gaston with a more mobile forward. The amount of times he's broken through and he's been looking for the key pass, but ends up just dropping it off to the midfield because the run hasn't been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Adam without a shadow of doubt. Not even taking into account the fact he cost 1/1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th the price of Gaston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Adam without a shadow of doubt. Not even taking into account the fact he cost 1/1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th the price of Gaston. 1/4000th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 5 March, 2013 Share Posted 5 March, 2013 Lallanna is still adjusting to the local culture ! Ramirez is an injury prone, show pony ! Get rid ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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