Team playing well under Pochettino: MYTH

[NickG]

You're making out that nine points from eight games is some stunning achievement. It's pretty much relegation form.

 

Disagree.

 

I didn't make out 9 points is stunning. I would have expected 6 or 7 so its a bit better than I thought. Where did I say its stunning?

 

Also think you are wrong about it being relegation form.

 

That form would give about 43 points, I assure that won't be relegation figure.

 

If we had this form all season we would probably have been top half now.

 

Some easier games but certainly not easy run with Everton, Liverpool, man u, Newcastle in those 9.

 

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/form-guide.html

 

Great afternoon, players and manager doing well.

 

Said all season, we will have relaxing safe end to the season, enjoy it!

[shurlock]

You didnt think we could beat Everton, Wigan, QPR and Norwich?

 

No I didnt think we would get 14 points from 8 games. Champions League type form. Mastery of english not a forte?

Edited 16 March, 2013 by shurlock

[Glasgow_Saint]

No I didnt think we would get 14 points from 8 games. Champions League type form. Mastery of english not a forte?

 

You didnt think we could beat Everton, Wigan, QPR and Norwich? I did

Edited 16 March, 2013 by Glasgow_Saint

[shurlock]

You didnt think we could beat Everton, Wigan, QPR and Norwich?

 

Read your own post - you expected 14 points from 8 games. That's as ludicrous as its moronic. The Everton, Wigan, QPR and Norwich results are immaterial.

 

FWIW, I didn't expect us to beat those 4. Why should I have? They're all tough games. Adkins never beat a top half side and mustered 5 wins in 22.

And you expected him to win 4 in 8 and half of those on the road?

:lol:

[Glasgow_Saint]

Read your own post - you expected 14 points from 8 games. That's as ludicrous as its moronic. The Everton, Wigan, QPR and Norwich results are immaterial.

 

FWIW, I didn't expect us to beat those 4. Why should I have? They're all tough games. Adkins never beat a top half side and mustered 5 wins in 22.

And you expected him to win 4 in 8 and half of those on the road?

:lol:

 

Different expectations mate. Bottom line, im possitive about Saints and youre not.

 

Dellsize mentality?

[CB Fry]

Disagree.

 

I didn't make out 9 points is stunning. I would have expected 6 or 7 so its a bit better than I thought. Where did I say its stunning?

 

Also think you are wrong about it being relegation form.

 

That form would give about 43 points, I assure that won't be relegation figure.

 

If we had this form all season we would probably have been top half now.

 

Some easier games but certainly not easy run with Everton, Liverpool, man u, Newcastle in those 9.

 

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/form-guide.html

 

Great afternoon, players and manager doing well.

 

Said all season, we will have relaxing safe end to the season, enjoy it!

 

Newcastle were in the "being sucked into it/sliding down the table/etc" gang when we played them (possible below us even, can't remember). Suddenly fiersome opposition in retrospect.

 

Your claim that you "doubt many would have predicted" nine points from eight suggested you thought that total was something out of the ordinary when in reality not too different from the previous 8/9/10 games under the previous manager. Which I think is the jist of this thread.

 

 

And nice try but I've been confident in us staying up all season too, long before we changed manager.

Edited 16 March, 2013 by CB Fry

[shurlock]

Different expectations mate. Bottom line, im possitive about Saints and youre not.

 

Dellsize mentality?

 

As much as you think Rome was built in a lunch break...

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Different expectations mate. Bottom line, im possitive about Saints and youre not.

 

Dellsize mentality?

 

Lol, you don't have a ****ing clue do you?

[Glasgow_Saint]

Lol, you don't have a ****ing clue do you?

 

I wont apologise for being positive

[Olallana]

So it's been wrong in over 50% of the 300 games played this season, yes?

 

I would say getting points in 78% of games would be a great achivement considering it would be 7 points per 4 games.

64-65 points in a season.

 

Would that satisfy you?

[Turkish]

I would say getting points in 78% of games would be a great achivement considering it would be 7 points per 4 games.

64-65 points in a season.

 

Would that satisfy you?

 

If its right in almost 50% of Games, then it must be wrong in over 50% of games. As usual your silly little stats are shown up to mean f*ck all.

[Olallana]

If its right in almost 50% of Games, then it must be wrong in over 50% of games. As usual your silly little stats are shown up to mean f*ck all.

 

Still not reading I see.

 

I try to write a bit slower to see if you can catch up...

 

According to the stats this season from almost 300 games the team that have most shots are winning almost 50% of the games, drawing about 28% and losing about 22%.

 

That equals a bit more than 7 points per 4 games, making it 64-65 points in a season.

Would you be happy with a 65 point season?

 

That is actually the last try I do for you, I have always said never to give up on a human (??) being but actually I am pretty close now....

[The9]

Whilst I'd never be stupid or ignorant enough to compare Lambert to a Vauxhall Corsa, I do agree that the new style doesn't seem suited to him. It's a style based around high-tempo, pressing, running and being constantly on the move... all of which are things we all acknowledge are weak points in Lamberts game.

 

I actually think it suits him a LOT better, we win the ball high up the pitch so he doesn't have to run far to get in scoring positions, and when he has the ball up front he always has a pass on and players in support. Earlier in the season he was isolated a fair bit - until we started pushing the wide men in behind him, which left us exposed down the wings too often.

 

In Pochettino's team he doesn't have to do a lot of pressing himself, because the opposing centre backs by definition are not the quickest or best passers so he can pressurise them without needing to get on top of the ball all the time, and we press the first pass towards midfield to get the ball back with our midfielders, not Lambert.

 

I would point out that he still hasn't scored at St Mary's since November though - wouldn't be surprised if his free-kick deflection ends up as an OG officially, it probably wasn't going in at the near post before it hit the wall.

Edited 16 March, 2013 by The9

[Super_Saint]

Not sure if mentioned before, but since Pochettino has taken over we have had over double the amount of shots compared to our opponents, with a total of 123 shots compared to 60 of our opponents. This includes games against City, and United away. I know it's goals that count, but you don't score unless you get the chances.

[The9]

Not sure if mentioned before, but since Pochettino has taken over we have had over double the amount of shots compared to our opponents, with a total of 123 shots compared to 60 of our opponents. This includes games against City, and United away. I know it's goals that count, but you don't score unless you get the chances.

 

I think that underpins our "rapid capitalisation on turnovers" mentality. We seem to spend much less time fartarsing around passing sideways against 2 banks of 4 organised defenders now. It's more "Get it near their goal, make an opening, have a shot".

[GAS]

Not sure if mentioned before, but since Pochettino has taken over we have had over double the amount of shots compared to our opponents, with a total of 123 shots compared to 60 of our opponents. This includes games against City, and United away. I know it's goals that count, but you don't score unless you get the chances.

Hey Turkish, please refer back to Olallana posts.

[ToreSF]

This was my prediction from before Pinocchio was appointed (after Chelsea game)

 

Everton WIN

MAN U LOSE

Wigan WIN

Man City Draw

Newcastle Lose

QPR WIN

Norwich WIN

Liverpool Draw

 

 

So under Adkins i fully expected 14 points - i didnt redo my prediction after Pinocchio was appointed but on the basis of him being an "improvement"

 

Strange predictions, but I'm glad you are a positive fan. Where did you think we would end up on the table?

[Graffito]

I actually think it suits him a LOT better, we win the ball high up the pitch so he doesn't have to run far to get in scoring positions, and when he has the ball up front he always has a pass on and players in support. Earlier in the season he was isolated a fair bit - until we started pushing the wide men in behind him, which left us exposed down the wings too often.

 

In Pochettino's team he doesn't have to do a lot of pressing himself, because the opposing centre backs by definition are not the quickest or best passers so he can pressurise them without needing to get on top of the ball all the time, and we press the first pass towards midfield to get the ball back with our midfielders, not Lambert.

 

I would point out that he still hasn't scored at St Mary's since November though - wouldn't be surprised if his free-kick deflection ends up as an OG officially, it probably wasn't going in at the near post before it hit the wall.

 

Good post this. I must admit I thought at first that Lambert would struggle with the high tempo but he fits in well or the system fits well with him and he remains integral to the team. I think he'll get his goal.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Strange predictions, but I'm glad you are a positive fan. Where did you think we would end up on the table?

 

I am positive and sometimes people dont like that. I expected top 12

 

P.s Which of my predictions was "strange"

[Chewy]

I am positive and sometimes people dont like that. I expected top 12

 

P.s Which of my predictions was "strange"

 

You 'expected' top 12. Unrealistic. You predicted two away wins in the middle of a run of champions league form in 8 games including against the top 2 and both Merseyside clubs. Unrealistic. You think Morgan is worth at most 8 million. Unrealistic. You really don't have a clue, do you?

[Frank's cousin]

I am positive and sometimes people dont like that. I expected top 12

 

P.s Which of my predictions was "strange"

 

 

Great positive stuff GS. Admirable. But can you please explain how you saw us win those games under NA when his 22 games gave us exactly 1 point per game? Curious as to why you predicted 14 points under NA from those 8, when Adkins form suggested maybe 8 points....

[Glasgow_Saint]

You 'expected' top 12. Unrealistic. You predicted two away wins in the middle of a run of champions league form in 8 games including against the top 2 and both Merseyside clubs. Unrealistic. You think Morgan is worth at most 8 million. Unrealistic. You really don't have a clue, do you?

 

Which club would come in for Morgan and what bid would you expect?

[Saint Garrett]

The only teams he'd go to would be the top sides IMO. I wouldn't consider anything less than 20m personally.

[Chewy]

Which club would come in for Morgan and what bid would you expect?

 

Arsenal, psg, spurs, Chelsea, man city would all be improved by him. I'd expect initial bids to be 12 - 15 million. Realistic, I think. And I wouldn't sell for that amount, we dont need the money so can hold out for more. It would therefore take more than double your top estimate to buy him from us.

[Super_Saint]

Hey Turkish, please refer back to Olallana posts.

 

I haven't looked at the posts and I don't plan to thanks. But maybe you should read over mine again, because it's clear that my post is optimistic and related to the thread title; based on the teams performance. Judging by your post I'm going to assume that Turkish's post was derisive and negative. It's not like the same ****e doesn't get posted on here over and over anyway.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Arsenal, psg, spurs, Chelsea, man city would all be improved by him. I'd expect initial bids to be 12 - 15 million. Realistic, I think. And I wouldn't sell for that amount, we dont need the money so can hold out for more. It would therefore take more than double your top estimate to buy him from us.

 

How much for Cork?

[david in sweden]

all this talk about " relegation form " ..surely at this level - it's called survival form...as those who remember " The Great Escape " will testify.

 

A quick look at the table shows that we are a couple of points away from mid table...which effectively means that half of the table could fall below the line....if they show poor form and have a bad run-in.

 

In those 27 seasons we had (previously) at top level, we rarely finished above halfway, but still managed to survive. For the first season back up, I think we've adjusted well even if results haven't shown it.

 

It's an achievement to be able to stay in this league, but we will see in the next few years whether we have the pedigree to finish in the top half regularly.....

[CB Fry]

You 'expected' top 12. Unrealistic. You predicted two away wins in the middle of a run of champions league form in 8 games including against the top 2 and both Merseyside clubs. Unrealistic. You think Morgan is worth at most 8 million. Unrealistic. You really don't have a clue, do you?

 

 

 

I think you'll find this is what most of the spanners on here expect the likes of Mark Lawrenson to predict for us. And you will have found sizeable numbers on here predicting victory for Saints ahead of all those games.

 

Funny how it is suddenly unrealistic to expect Saints to win when anyone not predicting wins in those games would have been branded a negative wrist slitter at the time.

[Chewy]

How much for Cork?

 

Similar, possibly more as he's english which (for some bizarre reason) inflates the price. IMO he's not quite as good. But, and here's the point you're missing, its not about what x club paid for y player, it's about the context of those specific players. Do we need to sell them, and are they desperate to leave? If we stay up we have no need to sell, if we go down we might. In terms of the players aspirations, who knows. But if they're happy and we don't need the money, we can hold out for ridiculous amounts. And i get the feeling cortese would play hard ball. Upwards of 15 million for both is therefore, in the context, realistic.

[Bearsy]

I think you'll find this is what most of the spanners on here expect the likes of Mark Lawrenson to predict for us. And you will have found sizeable numbers on here predicting victory for Saints ahead of all those games.

 

Funny how it is suddenly unrealistic to expect Saints to win when anyone not predicting wins in those games would have been branded a negative wrist slitter at the time.

 

Here is Lawrenson's predictions for the record:

Everton Lose

MAN U Lose

Wigan Lose

Man City Lose

Newcastle Lose

QPR Lose

Norwich Lose

Liverpool Lose

[Turkish]

Still not reading I see.

 

I try to write a bit slower to see if you can catch up...

 

According to the stats this season from almost 300 games the team that have most shots are winning almost 50% of the games, drawing about 28% and losing about 22%.

 

That equals a bit more than 7 points per 4 games, making it 64-65 points in a season.

Would you be happy with a 65 point season?

 

That is actually the last try I do for you, I have always said never to give up on a human (??) being but actually I am pretty close now....

 

No I'm reading it. it's very simple maths. You love your stats so i cant understand why your struggling. if the team that has most shots are winning almost 50% of matches then they are not winning over half the matches, which proves having more shots on goal doesnt automatically mean you win matches, in fact it proves that over half the time you won't. It also proves as many of us said you are talking boll ocks.

Edited 17 March, 2013 by Turkish

[shurlock]

I am positive and sometimes people dont like that. I expected top 12

 

P.s Which of my predictions was "strange"

 

Top 12?

You do realise that 14 points from the last 8 games would put us in tenth and if we carried on that form till the rest of the season we'd have 50 or so points and on the basis of the last few seasons, that would be enough for 8th/9th? Alas if we had managed your 'positive'/'realistic' form over the course of the season, we would be fighting for a CL place.

You're all over the place...

Edited 17 March, 2013 by shurlock

[Saint Garrett]

Similar, possibly more as he's english which (for some bizarre reason) inflates the price. IMO he's not quite as good. But, and here's the point you're missing, its not about what x club paid for y player, it's about the context of those specific players. Do we need to sell them, and are they desperate to leave? If we stay up we have no need to sell, if we go down we might. In terms of the players aspirations, who knows. But if they're happy and we don't need the money, we can hold out for ridiculous amounts. And i get the feeling cortese would play hard ball. Upwards of 15 million for both is therefore, in the context, realistic.

 

Fact is we don't need to sell, and the player is happy at Southampton. Those two things go a long way. I'm also sure that Cortese won't want any of our key players to leave and won't let them unless we get a ridiculous offer.

 

Also players are only worth what someone will pay for them so it's hard to put a value on it. But unless circumstances change, I can't see us considering an offer less that £15-20m for either.

[ToreSF]

I am positive and sometimes people dont like that. I expected top 12

 

P.s Which of my predictions was "strange"

 

I think you are confusing positive with exacting.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Top 12?

You do realise that 14 points from the last 8 games would put us in tenth and if we carried on that form till the rest of the season we'd have 50 or so points and on the basis of the last few seasons, that would be enough for 8th/9th? Alas if we had managed your 'positive'/'realistic' form over the course of the season, we would be fighting for a CL place.

You're all over the place...

 

I am a positive person, you should try it

[Turkish]

I think that underpins our "rapid capitalisation on turnovers" mentality. We seem to spend much less time fartarsing around passing sideways against 2 banks of 4 organised defenders now. It's more "Get it near their goal, make an opening, have a shot".

 

Get it in the mixer!!!

[Turkish]

I am a positive person, you should try it

 

I don't know why some of the clowns on here are having a go at you. Take the games individually and plenty of the mugs on here were predicting wins against Everton, Wigan, Norwich and QPR in the run up to those games. QPR are a terrible team we were told, Norwich are bang out of form and sliding down the table, Wigan we can beat easily and Everton with our wonder manager installed and the bumpkin who was holding us back finally shown the door was a match we should expect to win comfortably. It's only now in hindsight it was utter ridiculous to expect us to win the games as that is champions league form or something and it would be mental to expect us to win 4 games out of 8, two of them away. I can't believe anyone would possibly suggest such a thing.

[shurlock]

I don't know why some of the clowns on here are having a go at you. Take the games individually and plenty of the mugs on here were predicting wins against Everton, Wigan, Norwich and QPR in the run up to those games. QPR are a terrible team we were told, Norwich are bang out of form and sliding down the table, Wigan we can beat easily and Everton with our wonder manager installed and the bumpkin who was holding us back finally shown the door was a match we should expect to win comfortably. It's only now in hindsight it was utter ridiculous to expect us to win the games as that is champions league form or something and it would be mental to expect us to win 4 games out of 8, two of them away. I can't believe anyone would possibly suggest such a thing.

 

Were they? 14 points from 8 games?

Perhaps you should be front of the queue demanding a new stadium.

FWIW I had us down for 5-6 points from those 4 games which would have been and still would be excellent. Like most on here I would imagine...

Edited 17 March, 2013 by shurlock

[CB Fry]

Were they? 14 points from 8 games?

Perhaps you should be front of the queue demanding a new stadium.

FWIW I had us down for 5-6 points from those 4 games which would have been and still would be excellent. Like most on here I would imagine...

 

 

 

The majority view on this forum ahead of three of those games was Saints win in all of them, with fury that Lawrenson refused to tip us to win v Norwich and QPR. Everton was more mixed. But nine from four if you discount Everton.

[OldNick]

Glasgow. For somebody spouting about being positive I point you to the thread title

[Glasgow_Saint]

Were they? 14 points from 8 games?

Perhaps you should be front of the queue demanding a new stadium.

FWIW I had us down for 5-6 points from those 4 games which would have been and still would be excellent. Like most on here I would imagine...

 

You clearly have no faith in P'tino...... Why?

[Turkish]

Were they? 14 points from 8 games?

Perhaps you should be front of the queue demanding a new stadium.

FWIW I had us down for 5-6 points from those 4 games which would have been and still would be excellent. Like most on here I would imagine...

 

Go back through the posts for the game, with the exception of Man city and United on every thread the majority view was that we would win them and or at least get a point. Norwich are sliding down the table and in terrible form we were told, well beatable. Newcastle were there for the taking and it was only a crap ref that denied us a deserved victory we were told, as pointed out by Mr Fry, Lawro was lamblasted for predicting we'd lose against Newcatle and QPR. Wigan were easily beatable and we could definitely get something from Everton. Liverpool also werent a great side who were lucky to beat Spurs so we could get something againt Them. It's not my view by the way, it was the mongboard concensus on the build up threads. They were expecting wins at Newcatle, Norwich and Wigan, home win against QPR and a minimum of a point v Everton and Liverpool.

[Wes Tender]

Great positive stuff GS. Admirable. But can you please explain how you saw us win those games under NA when his 22 games gave us exactly 1 point per game? Curious as to why you predicted 14 points under NA from those 8' date=' when Adkins form suggested maybe 8 points....[/quote']

 

It's difficult to take a run of form from the earlier part of the season and extrapolate it onwards, especially when the early season matches were arguably the most difficult run of matches in Premiership history for a team newly promoted to the top flight. Additionally our more recent form under Adkins was sufficiently improved, so that a defence leaching goals earlier on, had become one that was more solid and mean. Factor in also that we became a much better team in midfield when Cork eventually came back from injury and forged a strong partnership with Schneiderlin and all of these things illustrate how you cannnot really make a sensible assessment of Adkins' managerial performance as an average.

 

But if you do, you would have to conclude that Pochettino has now finally managed to get us back to where we were in terms of league position when Adkins left and that despite notable wins against City and Liverpool, there were also losses against teams that we reasonably might have had expectations of beating.

[Saint Garrett]

Go back through the posts for the game, with the exception of Man city and United on every thread the majority view was that we would win them and or at least get a point.

 

 

Fans of club thinking we can get a result shocker...

[Turkish]

Fans of club thinking we can get a result shocker...

 

Read the thread before commenting.

[Jonnyboy]

Thought the team played pretty well today tbh, subs included.

[Jonnyboy]

Thought the team played pretty well today tbh, subs included.

 

What's his points per games vs Adkins now?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

He's ahead of Adkins now...

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Newcastle played football agaisnt us - the differnce in that game was imagination. We have very little in the final 3rd

 

More points, more goals, more shots, better performances.

 

What you gonna make up next?

 

:lol::lol:

[SaintBobby]

I think MP's record is now W 3 D 3 L 3 ?

 

If so, that's better than Adkins.

 

But also, hasn't MP had a tough nine games? (playing 5 of the top 7 teams, or something?)