Saint Garrett Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 What's the point?!? What £8m? People moan about the £11.5m we spent on Gaston but atleast he plays?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Mayuka is probably one of the most bizarre signings in our history. If you pay £4m for someone, you at least give them a chance. He's obviously awful in training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 2 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Mayuka is probably one of the most bizarre signings in our history. If you pay £4m for someone, you at least give them a chance. He's obviously awful in training. Very very odd. Looked decent when he came on vs villa. Looked very good vs spurs. Looked ok at WHU when he came on. Barely played since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 The Forren one is a mystery to me. After Yosh had a poor one today should he get a game? If not now then when?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Forren injured according to Radio Solent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Forren injured according to Radio Solent That would explain it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Pointless signings, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Forren injured according to Radio Solent Fantastic signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 yeah, we should have gone for Ben Haim, Chamakh and Pogatetz instead, dont you think guys?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 2 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 2 March, 2013 yeah, we should have gone for Ben Haim, Chamakh and Pogatetz instead, dont you think guys?? Not the point. Just got to ask the question. It's a lot of money to spend on 2 players who don't even make the squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Same questions were asked about Rodriguez earlier this season. Some signings take a while to settle. Mayuka came from the Swiss league, that's a big step up and Forren from the Norwegian which is perhaps an even bigger step up. Give it time, you can't judge a signing of a young player after a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 2 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 2 March, 2013 But atleast Jrod has been in and around the squad. Forren was bought in to bolster the defence. Either he's good but not match fit (so why not wait til the summer to buy him?), or not better than what we have (so why spend 4m on him?) Yes I do agree some players take a while to settle, but it all seems a bit odd this Forren thing. When he was in Spain he did an interview saying he was ready to play when called upon. That was 2 Months ago now?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Same questions were asked about Rodriguez earlier this season. Some signings take a while to settle. Mayuka came from the Swiss league, that's a big step up and Forren from the Norwegian which is perhaps an even bigger step up. Give it time, you can't judge a signing of a young player after a few months. True and Im not writing either off. Imagine others are the same. However everyone agreed we needed a cb to come in and compete for a starting spot in our shaky defence and, I know you can legislate for freak injuries, but a player with no match fitness doesn't seem to be the answer. Would love him to come back from injury and play a few blinders and shut me up, genuinely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Two full backs, three midfielders and one striker on the bench, Mayuka surely would have been better than JWP to try and rescue the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 2 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Doesn't make sense to me. These 2 guys might be amazing, yet might be sh!t - noone is writing them off just wondering what the point is if they're not going to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Mayuka is probably one of the most bizarre signings in our history. If you pay £4m for someone, you at least give them a chance. He's obviously awful in training. Wow you're quick to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 yeah, we should have gone for Ben Haim, Chamakh and Pogatetz instead, dont you think guys?? ...I actually quite rate Pogatetz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 2 March, 2013 Share Posted 2 March, 2013 Wow you're quick to judge. ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Garrett asks a fair question, and its one that puzzles me too. If their leagues were poor and they need six months to acclimatise, then we should not have spent the money. £8M capital outlay, (whatever) in wages .... money for nothing, and your chicks for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
student Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 The strangest thing for me seems be to doing the Forren deal in January. Even if they club wanted him why didnt they just wait until the summer, January signings almost always struggle to make an immediate impact. The only logical thing I can think of is that they were worried Fonte wasn't going to recover properly and they'd need someone to step in. For Mayuka it was never going to be straight forward, with ACON the club will have made a deliberate aim not to make him crucial to the team early on and now the side cant afford to let people get used to the league on the pitch. So he's just been a bit unlucky rather than anything else! I still think you'll be fine but you're making a bloody fuss of it at the moment when the way you've played at times you should be pushing towards the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Very very odd. Looked decent when he came on vs villa. Looked very good vs spurs. Looked ok at WHU when he came on. Barely played since. He looked decent in the ACON as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringwood Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Maybe it Puncheon playing better than expected that has kept Mayuka out of the team? Forren, injured apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Our transfer policy over the summer was a complete shambles. Priority given to spending £7M on a striker not good enough for the first team and £12M for a very hit and miss South American youngster. Key areas such as CB and GK were not adequately addressed until late in the window and beyond, and even then with cheaper options. Bizarre outlays on Mayuka and Gazzaniga, around £5M or so on potential prospects for the future yet we didn't spend that much on areas for the first team that blatantly needed more urgent reinforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Rodriguez Is more than good enough for the first XI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Rodriguez Is more than good enough for the first XI This. And also, Ramirez was signed on deadline day, by which time key positional players Clyne, Yoshida and Davis had come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Rodriguez Is more than good enough for the first XI Very debatable, for this season anyway. What perhaps is less debatable is the folly of spending £7M on a player only to see him on the bench almost as often as on the pitch, and more importantly fail to replace the incumbent of the striker's role in a team that predominantly plays with just one up front. We're seeing not nearly enough impact from the £30M - £35M of signings this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 This. And also, Ramirez was signed on deadline day, by which time key positional players Clyne, Yoshida and Davis had come. Not really, he wasn't. The transfer saga began weeks before he put pen to paper. He was clearly prioritised, even if the negotiations were massively protracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Very debatable, for this season anyway. What perhaps is less debatable is the folly of spending £7M on a player only to see him on the bench almost as often as on the pitch, and more importantly fail to replace the incumbent of the striker's role in a team that predominantly plays with just one up front. We're seeing not nearly enough impact from the £30M - £35M of signings this season. Thing is if you buy good players who have prem experience and will still have a sell on value in a few years, they cost a fortune...in transfer fee and wages. We obviously looked to bring in players from abroad and gamble a bit, also ones who are young so they don't demand a lot in wages. I agree our summer transfer window was dubious, and unfortunately our gambles haven't paid off yet. But they will get better and won't drop much in value either. It's just whether these players are going to make the impact they were expected to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Thing is if you buy good players who have prem experience and will still have a sell on value in a few years, they cost a fortune...in transfer fee and wages. We obviously looked to bring in players from abroad and gamble a bit, also ones who are young so they don't demand a lot in wages. I agree our summer transfer window was dubious, and unfortunately our gambles haven't paid off yet. But they will get better and won't drop much in value either. It's just whether these players are going to make the impact they were expected to have. I can see why we did what we did. We bought players who are young and can give us some decent service while still having a resale value. I just think we got the balance wrong. £5M on Mayuka and Gazza, while £2.5M on Yoshida, free for Boruc and almost free for Davis as players to bring some top level experience in. I think we DID spend a fortune, just not in the right areas. We put most of our our eggs in the basket of youth signings, topped it up with a bit of relatively cheap experience, and IMO for the amount we spent it hasn't paid off. Also, that Puncheon has massively stepped up to the plate against all expectations covers another hole in the transfer strategy. £30M is an astronomical amount for a club our size to spend in one summer, I don't think we got value. Time may prove that opinion wrong, but to spend that much money and still be a very strong candidate for relegation suggests to me we got more wrong than we did right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 I can see why we did what we did. We bought players who are young and can give us some decent service while still having a resale value. I just think we got the balance wrong. £5M on Mayuka and Gazza, while £2.5M on Yoshida, free for Boruc and almost free for Davis as players to bring some top level experience in. I think we DID spend a fortune, just not in the right areas. We put most of our our eggs in the basket of youth signings, topped it up with a bit of relatively cheap experience, and IMO for the amount we spent it hasn't paid off. Also, that Puncheon has massively stepped up to the plate against all expectations covers another hole in the transfer strategy. £30M is an astronomical amount for a club our size to spend in one summer, I don't think we got value. Time may prove that opinion wrong, but to spend that much money and still be a very strong candidate for relegation suggests to me we got more wrong than we did right. Absolutely spot on. Best point made on this board for some time. The man has single-handedly won us so much this season (Reading, Chelsea, etc.) and had he decided to not show up our summer activity would of been seriously questioned. Ramirez despite the goal yesterday remains the biggest flop in the club's history this side of Delgado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Nick G will be along in a minute with some stats about how our spending wasn't huge and we needed to spend that much as we had a league one squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Nick G will be along in a minute with some stats about how our spending wasn't huge and we needed to spend that much as we had a league one squad. Partly true....but partly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Partly true....but partly not. completely untrue, no way did we have a L1 squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Not a L1 squad, but no way a prem squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Not a L1 squad, but no way a prem squad. Because the likes of Stoke, Norwich and West Brom are absolutely prem quality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Not really, he wasn't. What I said was 100% true: Gastón Ramírez was signed on August 31st. Regardless of how long the negotiations took place, he was signed on deadline day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 How many of our new signings have improved the team? Boruc, Yoshida that's about it. Our best performers this season are players who were already here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2013 You said SQUAD. Every single one has improved the squad. Boruc, Clyne, Yoshida, Gaston, J-Rod have all improved the team IMO. Boruc > Davis Clyne > Richardson Yoshi > Hooiveld Gaston > Lallana JRod > Guly..... Gazza is a better option than Bart Davis a better option than Hammond. Mayuka is a better option that Connolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 What I said was 100% true: Gastón Ramírez was signed on August 31st. Regardless of how long the negotiations took place, he was signed on deadline day. Yes, I realise that. Which is why I qualified the point (which you chose to leave out from your quote) that Ramirez and Rodriguez were targetted very early on as our key signings. Ramirez signed on the dotted line on deadline day, but that doesn't tell the story of his being targetted and chased for weeks. He was prioritised as a key signing early in the summer, and we followed that through until we finally got him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Durman Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Steve Davis improves the team and was an excellent signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 You said SQUAD. Every single one has improved the squad. Boruc, Clyne, Yoshida, Gaston, J-Rod have all improved the team IMO. Boruc > Davis Clyne > Richardson Yoshi > Hooiveld Gaston > Lallana JRod > Guly..... Gazza is a better option than Bart Davis a better option than Hammond. Mayuka is a better option that Connolly. i forgot about Clyne and i disagree that Ramirez and Rodriguez have improved the team, they might well do in the future but at the moment neither of them have shown enough regularly to say we are a better team with them than without them. Our best players this season have been ones who were already here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 You said SQUAD. Every single one has improved the squad. Boruc, Clyne, Yoshida, Gaston, J-Rod have all improved the team IMO. Boruc > Davis Clyne > Richardson Yoshi > Hooiveld Gaston > Lallana JRod > Guly..... Gazza is a better option than Bart Davis a better option than Hammond. Mayuka is a better option that Connolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 i forgot about Clyne and i disagree that Ramirez and Rodriguez have improved the team, they might well do in the future but at the moment neither of them have shown enough regularly to say we are a better team with them than without them. Our best players this season have been ones who were already here. Yep. The stand out players so far have been Clyne, Shaw, Schneiderlin, Cork, Puncheon and Lambert. Top3 of Cork, Morgan and Lambert IMO. Boruc may be able to be added to the list by the end of the season, as of now he's a keeper who has had a couple of good months. Yoshida has been decent enough for a £2.5M player. Davis was cheap and has done OK, though nothing special. The jury is very much still out on Ramirez, Rodriguez, Gazzaniga and Mayuka IMO. God knows what Forren is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Ok. Just wondering what you're expecting JRod to do ?! He has been very impressive. Was very good at Wigan away. Far far better than Lallana yesterday. Done ok against Spurs and West Ham. I'd even go as far as saying he's been one of our best players under Poche. Agree Morgan and Cork have been our best players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patred44 Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 (edited) in all this no one has asked the obvious.. Forren exactly who decided on him? Who signed him? Who done all the negoiations behind the managers back? Nigel Adkins knew nothing of him, that much the club admits, Mauricio knew nothing about him until he was told, so he says. When Forren was asked he deplomatically replied that Southampton FC signed him and revealed no more. I have my own opinion on who signed him.. but it would be nice if that person(s) were approachable enough to explain why he was signed at that time. That goes to the very root of who, or who should be responsible for the make up of the squad ! Edited 3 March, 2013 by patred44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 Ok. Just wondering what you're expecting JRod to do ?! He has been very impressive. Was very good at Wigan away. Far far better than Lallana yesterday. Done ok against Spurs and West Ham. I'd even go as far as saying he's been one of our best players under Poche. Agree Morgan and Cork have been our best players. At £7M, for a club like us, my minimum expectation for Rodriguez (or any striker of that value, for that matter) would be for him to be good enough to be our first choice striker. I don't think clubs like Saints can afford to have £7M of player sat on the bench about as often as they're on the pitch; particularly in the first season on return to the top division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2013 But we play with one up front and Rickie is a better player!? If Rickie was the same age as JRod he'd probably be worth £20m. It's a hard one, but I really do rate JRod. He had a few shots from out the box yesterday which had Ronaldo-esque dip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 But we play with one up front and Rickie is a better player!? If Rickie was the same age as JRod he'd probably be worth £20m. It's a hard one, but I really do rate JRod. He had a few shots from out the box yesterday which had Ronaldo-esque dip! Yes. That's entirely my point. JRod may well come great in the future. At the moment I don't see £7M worth of value, and I don't see the logic in spending that sum in this season when we are looking to consolidate. i think we got our priorities wrong, that's the point I'm making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2013 But how were the club meant to know that Rickie was going to make the step up so well this season? And we only had him and Guly who could play up front if you discount Mayuka and J-Rod. 7m really isn't that much for a highly rated young English striker. I certainly wouldn't have been happy if we didn't have an alternative to Rickie going into the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 March, 2013 Share Posted 3 March, 2013 But how were the club meant to know that Rickie was going to make the step up so well this season? And we only had him and Guly who could play up front if you discount Mayuka and J-Rod. 7m really isn't that much for a highly rated young English striker. I certainly wouldn't have been happy if we didn't have an alternative to Rickie going into the season. Well, I think that's the point again, isn't it? The club should be aware of what they have, what they need most, what positions they really need to improve, and which players they should bring in to do that. I don't think they did a particularly good job at that. And I just think that £7M should bring in a player who is genuine competition for Lambert this season, not just a backup. As I said, Rodriguez may be one for the future; this season, when we need to consolidate and hold our position in the division, he is only a backup option and £7M is a big price to pay for that. Add in Mayuka and Gazzaniga and you have well more than £10M in second choice players. That's around the same money spent that Swansea and Norwich finished mid table with, let alone the additional £20M we spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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