david in sweden Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 .or one that needs sarcastic comments, but I cannot see the (lack of) logic in not even selecting RL for an England squad ? I've always heard managers say ....whatever else play your best players (regardless of form). So liven up Roy Hodgson ! In case you don't look so often, the list of Prem. goalscorers is very long before you get to the best ENGLISH striker - Rickie Lambert. Ah, all the media will say.... he's playing for a club near the bottom ...and he was "just lucky " to score against Man. Utd, Man City.....and Chelsea.. ..and what if he does have an impeccable penalty scoring record 31 out of 31....England have still got Frank Lampard (oops sorry)... and well anyway.... he's too old at 31. Yes, of course we have to bring on younger players....but does the FA's vision only stretch..... from World Cup to World Cup...? Are they secretly preparing a special anniversary game....at Wembley to celebrate the 50th anniversary of that 1966 win? ..............for goodness sake NO....don't do it. Germany will win this time. just re-run the film of the original - with Kenneth Wolstenholmes' legendary comments. With the Euro Championships next year, England will once again try to win a trophy for the first time in 47 years. Even with ordinary form, Rickie is likely to continue to be amongst the top English marksmen ..come May, and his good form may be just what England need for that tournament. YES. we know, he'll be TOO old come 2016, but must we use every international championship as practice for World Cups, when RL could give us a real chance to reach another final ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Pretty sure the euro's were last year, it's a world cup next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Brazil 2014 World Cup. 2016 is the Euros in France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 .Ah, all the media will say.... he's playing for a club near the bottom ...and he was "just lucky " to score against Man. Utd, Man City.....and Chelsea.. Which bits of the media have said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Not really sure why it bothers people so much that Lambert isn't being selected for England. What if he plays and breaks his leg? As long as he plays well for the Saints, and England do well, there's no clear reason these two things have to interlink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Walcott, Defoe, Lampard, Rooney all have more goals when you include other competitions. This doesn't take account of appearances and in any case I think Lambert deserves a go because as we know, and others are slowly catching on to, his contribution is much more than goal scoring. I think Hodgson is pragmatic and isn't fixated on future competitions. After all he might get the sack before he makes a tornament. I'm not aware of Hodgson having said anything specifically on the subject of Lambert. At a guess it could be Lambert's lack of pace more than his age that explains why people like Welbeck or Defoe gets in ahead of him and we can't really put Lambert ahead of Rooney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Walcott, Defoe, Lampard, Rooney all have more goals when you include other competitions. This doesn't take account of appearances and in any case I think Lambert deserves a go because as we know, and others are slowly catching on to, his contribution is much more than goal scoring. I think Hodgson is pragmatic and isn't fixated on future competitions. After all he might get the sack before he makes a tornament. I'm not aware of Hodgson having said anything specifically on the subject of Lambert. At a guess it could be Lambert's lack of pace more than his age that explains why people like Welbeck or Defoe gets in ahead of him and we can't really put Lambert ahead of Rooney. But scoring in the PL is tops surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 So if United miraculously offered us a straight swap Rooney for Lambert you wouldn't take it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) Brazil 2014 World Cup. 2016 is the Euros in France but of course, my typing got ahead of the calendar.... but the argument is surely still valid.....an on-form player shouldn't be ignored ...and those three teams mentioned have three of the world's better international keepers, too..so if RL can score against them.....why not play him at international level. Edited 27 February, 2013 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Proving your worth against Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton isn't enough to get you in the England squad. You need to prove yourself in the Champions League against the true greats like Panathinakos, Cluj and BATE Borisov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Proving your worth against Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton isn't enough to get you in the England squad. You need to prove yourself in the Champions League against the true greats like Panathinakos, Cluj and BATE Borisov. oh..... so that's it. Thanks for the heads up on that one Lighthouse. I knew there was some logic somewhere. Can we be sure that players from those countries will be represented in Brazil, though.......?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Walcott, Defoe, Lampard, Rooney all have more goals when you include other competitions. This doesn't take account of appearances and in any case I think Lambert deserves a go because as we know, and others are slowly catching on to, his contribution is much more than goal scoring. I think Hodgson is pragmatic and isn't fixated on future competitions. After all he might get the sack before he makes a tornament. I'm not aware of Hodgson having said anything specifically on the subject of Lambert. At a guess it could be Lambert's lack of pace more than his age that explains why people like Welbeck or Defoe gets in ahead of him and we can't really put Lambert ahead of Rooney. True......but they've played more games than Lambert so you'd expect that surely? However, I'd think that a goals per game ratio would show Rickie in an even better light, statistically-speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 True......but they've played more games than Lambert so you'd expect that surely? However, I'd think that a goals per game ratio would show Rickie in an even better light, statistically-speaking. It might also be argued that the " service" that those named get from their international team-mates might suggest that they ought to have scored even more. ooooooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Sturridge, Welbeck, walcott, rooney are the future And that is who should be being blooded right now Im afraid Id love to see RL in an England shirt as a Saints fan but as an England fan I know its not just about 1 game at a time, if we are to be anywhere near the level of the continental teams we need to blood young players with potential, not replace them with ageing players im afraid Sorry Rickie I still love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 So if United miraculously offered us a straight swap Rooney for Lambert you wouldn't take it? No, actually, I wouldn't. Lambert is a very talented player and also an admirable person - honest, optimistic, and modest. Rooney may be a great player, but as a person ... Lambert leads by example and he is inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Apologies if already posted somewhere: http://www.teamtalk.com/southampton/8527441/Suarez-is-creator-in-chief-in-Premier-League? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 i feel cheated. This totally is another Rickie Lambert thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 No it ain't bear, this one has underlining and bolding and loads of dots..... much more than the other Ricky Lambert threads so therefore it is not just another Ricky Lambert thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 i feel cheated. This totally is another Rickie Lambert thread. Bearsy, your on the main board bro You feeling ok ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 yeah it's cool the mods are at training workshop today. I'll scarper for when they get back. Boobs! Tits! Knobs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WokingSaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 World Cups have always been enriched by players from all over the world of senior age. If you are good enough you are old enough or young enough. If RL got in the squad now there is no reason why he should not last until at least after next years World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Sturridge, Welbeck, walcott, rooney are the future And that is who should be being blooded right now Im afraid Id love to see RL in an England shirt as a Saints fan but as an England fan I know its not just about 1 game at a time, if we are to be anywhere near the level of the continental teams we need to blood young players with potential, not replace them with ageing players im afraid Sorry Rickie I still love you Welbeck is **** though ans sturridge isnt much better wooney doesnt ever do it for England and theo is inconsistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Welbeck is **** though ans sturridge isnt much better wooney doesnt ever do it for England and theo is inconsistent Looking forward to the world cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I do not care what anybody says or whatever England wish to do in the future-Rickie should play for the three lions. We have not won anything since 1966 for goodness sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Sturridge, Welbeck, walcott, rooney are the future And that is who should be being blooded right now Im afraid The old "we need to blood kids for the future" argument, specious. You don't blood youngsters for the next World Cup when it is in a year's time. You play the players that you think might have a chance of winning the bloody thing, i.e. your best players. If you carry on blodding youngsters for the future when do you say enough, this is our best team and go for the win. SRL is not too old for England, and probably won't be even for the next Euros. he may be too slow, but thats a whole diffrent argument (and in any case is pace really a must have for internationals that are usually played at walking/yawning pace). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Imo it should a given that the top English goal scorer in the top league in England should get a chance to play for England no matter who they are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raynesparksaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I remember when the Opta thing first came out, Neil Redfearn of Charlton was - statistically speaking - head and shoulders above any other midfielder. Yet there I don't recall there being any clamour for him to be called up for the national side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 because he isn't good enough for the international level. his finishing isn't good enough and he's too slow. I'd rather he concentrated on just playing for Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Sturridge, Welbeck, walcott, rooney are the future And that is who should be being blooded right now Im afraid Id love to see RL in an England shirt as a Saints fan but as an England fan I know its not just about 1 game at a time, if we are to be anywhere near the level of the continental teams we need to blood young players with potential, not replace them with ageing players im afraid Sorry Rickie I still love you We've been talking about "the future" for bloody years where England are concerned and won nothing - about time we concentrated on the present, and Lambert should be in the squad on current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I'm expecting five of England's first XI in Brazil 2014 to be either current or former Saints: ------------------------Hart------------------------ --Clyne------Ferdinand---------Cahill---------Shaw-- --Oxo-------Wilshere-----------Lallana------Milner--- ----------------------Gerrard----------------------- ----------------------Walcott---------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 But scoring in the PL is tops surely? Yes scoring in the PL trumps scoring in the League Cup, the FA Cup and probably the CL qualifiers. Someone tell Roy. As I said though, it can't be just goals scored that Hodgson is assessing players on. If it were, there would be a case for Crouchy Crouchy (so good we named him twice) because his England scoring record is very good and a lot better than Welbeck's. It has to be all round play and how a player fits in the system. So why not Lambert? I don't know but where would you play him in Hodgson's system, who would you drop? He could fill the Rooney role admirably but that isn't going to happen, nor should it, unless there are injuries. Other than that it's bringing Lambert off the bench for plan B which would probably mean going long and not utilising all his capabilities. What would really **** me off is if Carroll got back in ahead of Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I don't know why people are so keen for any Saints players to get England experience given that Beattie went back to being useless after he was frozen out of the England set up. Also, on goals per minute (admittedly these are stats from New Year's Eve) Lambert is 26th overall, and only 8th/9th top English scorer behind Lampard, Jerome, Walcott, Rooney, Anichebe (though he's decided to be Nigerian), Sturridge, Le Fondre, and Joe Cole. http://www.sportskeeda.com/2013/01/02/premier-league-goal-per-minute-ratio/ So maybe he's just scoring more than some English players because they don't play as much as he does (because the better players are playing for more successful clubs which usually have scheduling conflicts and there are sometimes other, non-English players keeping them out of the side)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I don't know why people are so keen for any Saints players to get England experience given that Beattie went back to being useless after he was frozen out of the England set up. Also, on goals per minute (admittedly these are stats from New Year's Eve) Lambert is 26th overall, and only 8th/9th top English scorer behind Lampard, Jerome, Walcott, Rooney, Anichebe (though he's decided to be Nigerian), Sturridge, Le Fondre, and Joe Cole. http://www.sportskeeda.com/2013/01/02/premier-league-goal-per-minute-ratio/ So maybe he's just scoring more than some English players because they don't play as much as he does (because the better players are playing for more successful clubs which usually have scheduling conflicts and there are sometimes other, non-English players keeping them out of the side)? Cheers for spoiling the party with your needlessly meticulous statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 because he isn't good enough for the international level. his finishing isn't good enough and he's too slow. except that most of the teams he's scoring against....have these types of international players in their defences....so what's the argument.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 except that most of the teams he's scoring against....have these types of international players in their defences....so what's the argument.? Think he means international football's an entirely different ballgame where SRL's lack of pace may be exploited. I beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Cheers for spoiling the party with your needlessly meticulous statistics. You can't beat the facts. From late December... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 i feel cheated. This totally is another Rickie Lambert thread. It's a Rickie Lambert thread with different fonts. A big change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 You can't beat the facts. From late December... Yes sharp has more starts than lambert as you predicted. Good old facts. I think it's time you gave lambert some praise. I just don't understand ur stance in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Yes sharp has more starts than lambert as you predicted. Good old facts. I think it's time you gave lambert some praise. I just don't understand ur stance in this. Actually at the point when we loaned him to Forest, Sharp had as many Prem appearances as Lambert and one more Cup appearance. So I'll take that as a win. I've given Lambert plenty of praise, he's certainly less injury prone than you'd expect for a player of his age. I'm glad we've found a system that enables him to be as effective as he can be from us winning the ball high up the pitch, because the less running he has to do, the better. It's just a shame its to the detriment of our best player, who'd thrive on someone who could get on the end of his through balls rather than being a yard short. As it happens the prioritisation of workrate and pressing in midfield has rendered Gaston's contributions less important at the moment anyway, but overall I think that'll need to be the approach going forward if we're going to push on with Cortese's European ambitions. Unless The Southampton Way is REALLY going to be a unique style in Europe, as there aren't many English-style knockdown merchants playing in top European teams at the moment, even if they have got a great first touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Actually at the point when we loaned him to Forest, Sharp had as many Prem appearances as Lambert and one more Cup appearance. So I'll take that as a win. I've given Lambert plenty of praise, he's certainly less injury prone than you'd expect for a player of his age. I'm glad we've found a system that enables him to be as effective as he can be from us winning the ball high up the pitch, because the less running he has to do, the better. It's just a shame its to the detriment of our best player, who'd thrive on someone who could get on the end of his through balls rather than being a yard short. As it happens the prioritisation of workrate and pressing in midfield has rendered Gaston's contributions less important at the moment anyway, but overall I think that'll need to be the approach going forward if we're going to push on with Cortese's European ambitions. Unless The Southampton Way is REALLY going to be a unique style in Europe, as there aren't many English-style knockdown merchants playing in top European teams at the moment, even if they have got a great first touch. That's garbage about sharp. You know there's no way he wouldnt have had as many appearances and he was behind lambert already in appearances. Lamberts our best player and everyone knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 We've been talking about "the future" for bloody years where England are concerned and won nothing - about time we concentrated on the present, and Lambert should be in the squad on current form. We havent been concerning on the future with England at all, in fact you talk to anyone with a coaching background most will tell you of their disenchantment with an England that seem far happier on cashing in on their ageing cashcows then building a team for the future. Btw Welbeck and Sturridge not got a future ? Really ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 That's garbage about sharp. You know there's no way he wouldnt have had as many appearances and he was behind lambert already in appearances. Lamberts our best player and everyone knows it. He's one of our best yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flying Finn Posted 28 February, 2013 Share Posted 28 February, 2013 Unfortunately I don't think he'll ever get the chance he deserves. I mean Spain took Llorente to the Euros, one of the finest strikers in Europe at the time, and he got next to no playing time. I know they have a different system to England but still… SRL ****s over any England striker worth comparing to him right now. Rooney is untouchable, but beyond that the door is open. However Rickie’s face does not seem to fit. As gutted for the man I as I am, beyond that I’m ok with it. He’s our centurion, and if he only bangs them in for us (Saturday included) then so be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 28 February, 2013 Share Posted 28 February, 2013 We havent been concerning on the future with England at all, in fact you talk to anyone with a coaching background most will tell you of their disenchantment with an England that seem far happier on cashing in on their ageing cashcows then building a team for the future. Btw Welbeck and Sturridge not got a future ? Really ? Where did I say Wellbeck and Sturridge not have a future? My point is that we have often had a "golden generation" around the corner that has not materialised. Sometimes there are short term answers in players such as RL but we are afraid to use them as they are "too old for England". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 February, 2013 Share Posted 28 February, 2013 Where did I say Wellbeck and Sturridge not have a future? My point is that we have often had a "golden generation" around the corner that has not materialised. Sometimes there are short term answers in players such as RL but we are afraid to use them as they are "too old for England". Didnt say that you said Welbeck or Sturridge were not the future, that was from somebody else within this thread. Being too old has never been a problem for England TBH, as we have never effectively embraced youth, this will be spelled out when Terry, Lampard etc are paraded around in Brazil, more to do with paychecks then actually being competetive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 28 February, 2013 Share Posted 28 February, 2013 Didnt say that you said Welbeck or Sturridge were not the future, that was from somebody else within this thread. Being too old has never been a problem for England TBH, as we have never effectively embraced youth, this will be spelled out when Terry, Lampard etc are paraded around in Brazil, more to do with paychecks then actually being competetive. Not sure whose pay cheques you mean but if you mean the players, they have for many years donated their England pay to charity. Can't knock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 28 February, 2013 Think he means international football's an entirely different ballgame where SRL's lack of pace may be exploited. I beg to differ. Pace, pace, and (an apparent lack of it)...has always been used as an argument against RL, but seeing the high tempo games since Pochettino took over has surely put that one to bed. Lambert has played 90 mins. in all 5 games since the changeover...AND at a pace that shook Alex Ferguson, pulled two goals back v. Chelsea and got praiseworthy comments from AP. I don't see the Welbeck / Defoe (already 31 - I think) combination being the long term future as England's strike force. I can recall a Div. 2 striker from Wolves (Bull?)..getting a few England games way back when...so surely Rickie must surely be worth a chance in his present form....even for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 28 February, 2013 Share Posted 28 February, 2013 Pace, pace, and (an apparent lack of it)...has always been used as an argument against RL, but seeing the high tempo games since Pochettino took over has surely put that one to bed. Lambert has played 90 mins. in all 5 games since the changeover...AND at a pace that shook Alex Ferguson, pulled two goals back v. Chelsea and got praiseworthy comments from AP. I don't see the Welbeck / Defoe (already 31 - I think) combination being the long term future as England's strike force. I can recall a Div. 2 striker from Wolves (Bull?)..getting a few England games way back when...so surely Rickie must surely be worth a chance in his present form....even for a season. Well said Davie. For me Welbeck (one league goal this season) is very lucky to be near the Senior setup. Rooney has been bypassed by many players but is still our best striker. The fact the likes of Carroll will be selected ahead of Lambert is probably the reason we never do well, its a club where your face needs to fit and form is largely irrelevant. That Milner is often in the first XI when he wouldn't get in Saints' (for me) is telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 28 February, 2013 Share Posted 28 February, 2013 That Milner is often in the first XI when he wouldn't get in Saints' (for me) is telling. Davis? Puncheon? Gaston on current form? Jayrod? Let's be honest mate, Milner would walk into our first XI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 1 March, 2013 Author Share Posted 1 March, 2013 Davis? Puncheon? Gaston on current form? Jayrod? Let's be honest mate, Milner would walk into our first XI. Nah !....with Schneiderlin, Cork and Lallana on form....he might make the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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