ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Boruc Clyne Fox Hooiveld Fonte Yoshida Schneiderlin Guly Davis Lallana Jay Rod Ramirez We need more players like Lambert and Shaw... :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 What after what shaw did at Wigan? I don't think so and just ask the 9 about Lambert - get them in the list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Totally Lambert has to be in there. Think it was NA's first season. Also, in his previous time with us Jack Cork was never going to make it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Boruc Clyne Fox Hooiveld Fonte Yoshida Schneiderlin Guly Davis Lallana Jay Rod Ramirez We need more players like Lambert and Shaw... :-( You do realise this is a football forum with hundreds of posters? Everyone is going to have different views and will raise them if they think a player isn't performing as well as they should. If that player then improves, they'll probably comment that the player is playing well. Not complicated is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 You do realise this is a football forum with hundreds of posters? Everyone is going to have different views and will raise them if they think a player isn't performing as well as they should. If that player then improves, they'll probably comment that the player is playing well. Not complicated is it. Stating that a player had a bad performance is one thing, claiming that he "will never deliver", "not good enough for this level", "useless", etc. etc. is something completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Stating that a player had a bad performance is one thing, claiming that he "will never deliver", "not good enough for this level", "useless", etc. etc. is something completely different. Well that doesn't apply to most of your list does it? And in the other cases you might have one or two people getting carried away and that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Matty Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Stating that a player had a bad performance is one thing, claiming that he "will never deliver", "not good enough for this level", "useless", etc. etc. is something completely different. Agreed, a good friend of mine hates yoshida and wants him to fail so he can be proved right - what a t----r. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Well that doesn't apply to most of your list does it? And in the other cases you might have one or two people getting carried away and that's about it. I think it applies to most players on the list. The impatience of some posters on here is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Boruc Clyne Fox Hooiveld Fonte Yoshida Schneiderlin Guly Davis Lallana Jay Rod Ramirez We need more players like Lambert and Shaw... :-( FFS in none of those cases can you say there's an overwhelming consensus - you obviously don't know much about democracies, diversity and the fact you get all sorts in them. Where there is some agreement (though far from unanimous) -say Jayrod and Fox/Jos at least in the Prem, the jury's rightly still out. The only one perhaps which has arguably surprised alot of people is Shaw. On the other hand, the ones who were bigging up Shaw are also the ones who thought JWP and Gazza were going to make an immediate impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 James Beattie is another one that springs to mind. Scored six goals in 61 appearances his first two seasons here. Point is, there is no point writing young players off as it's quite impossible to be sure if they are going to make the level or not. Thanks to the patience of the people who run our club, we have six players in our first team with over 100 apps. Then look to a team like QPR with no continuity at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I think it applies to most players on the list. The impatience of some posters on here is incredible. Clyne? Boruc? Lallana? Can't remember anyone using such adjectives for those three. I've stood up for Hooiveld and Fox, but I can see why people would be critical of them, can't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 FFS in none of those cases can you say there's an overwhelming consensus. Where there is some agreement (though far from unanimous) -say Jayrod and Fox/Jos at least in the Prem, the jury's still out. The only one perhaps which has arguably surprised alot of people is Shaw. On the other hand, the ones who were bigging up Shaw are also the ones who thought JWP and Gazza were going to make an immediate impact. Agree that it hasn't been an overwhelming consensus about most of the players, but so what? The post is aimed at those who constantly write players off after a bad string of performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Clyne? Boruc? Lallana? Can't remember anyone using such adjectives for those three. I've stood up for Hooiveld and Fox, but I can see why people would be critical of them, can't you? You have NOT seen that for Boruc? Oh dear.....where were you from october to middle of january? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 You have NOT seen that for Boruc? Oh dear.....where were you from october to middle of january? Yes, when at least 90% of the forum thought he should be our first choice 'keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 My favourite is "worst player I have ever seen in a Southampton shirt" - the favoured expression of the knee-jerking reactionist. People forget that it is rare for any player to come in and make an instant impact. Often they need to get to know the players around them, the pace of the game, the style the manager wants to play - not to mention the culture, language etc. And that's before the burden of any pricetag or knee jerk judgments of the fans comes into play. What factors turned Torres from one of the best strikers in the league to a donkey? If you were offered him for £5m would you take him? I probably would because he must have had something and there's a chance that can be unlocked again. Some people make snap judgments about players; they find it hard to change their minds and forget that players are humans, just as prone to bad days (weeks or months) at the office as anyone else. I subscribe to the fact that most players have something that attracted us to them, but they won't always be on fire. The only danger is when you buy a player who is fulfilling the "form is temporary, class is permanent" maxim - e.g. someone like Beattie who would go on a streak and then not score for a few months. Assuming the players you buy have the skills for the job, the managers job is to try to improve / fix the issues, and if they can't, move them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I presume this doesn't have to be players from the current squad. Nathan Dyer What a load of rubbish he was. Own up. Who hired a taxi for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Hardly surprising that you will always get someone who decides to have a go at a player after a poor performance. It's just the nature of internet message boards that people tend to experss themselves in black and white terms and then rarely if ever return to the same subject to praise a player when he has a good match, thereby redressing the balance. Also, there's loads more debate generated from a bad performance as the board discusses what can be changed to rectify things, and that debate leads to people taking entrenched postions. This situation is never going to change and I think it would have been more interesting to start a list of players that have never been written off by someone at some stage. that would be a short list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Boruc Clyne Fox Hooiveld Fonte Yoshida Schneiderlin Guly Davis Lallana Jay Rod Ramirez We need more players like Lambert and Shaw... :-( where is punch! I've wrote him off loads! In some ways i wish he'd go back to scuffing his shots or firing over bar, it's very disconcerting to have him actually playing well and putting in net. Makes me feel like i know f.all bout f.ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I think it applies to most players on the list. The impatience of some posters on here is incredible. Silly thread. It's the leeway some on here give to under performing players that frequently surprises me. For instance Marek Saganowski delivered about 4 decent performances for this team during his entire time here - this didn't stop some calling for his constant selection at every available opportunity though. I can think of a certain player in the current squad who is much the same ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 What factors turned Torres from one of the best strikers in the league to a donkey? If you were offered him for £5m would you take him? I probably would because he must have had something and there's a chance that can be unlocked again. . Torres is burnt out, When you're 28 and you've played about 600 games in 10 seasons you can understand why. Plenty of Spanish clubs would still give Chelsea 15 million for him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Silly thread. It's the leeway some on here give to under performing players that frequently surprises me. For instance Marek Saganowski delivered about 4 decent performances for this team during his entire time here - this didn't stop some calling for his constant selection at every available opportunity though. I can think of a certain player in the current squad who is much the same ... Saganowski put in a good shift when he was here on loan then when he got a contract he became pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 People are yet to learn that bad form doesn't necessarily mean a bad player. Spurs were trying to shift Bale after his early run in their team. Look at him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Saganowski put in a good shift when he was here on loan then when he got a contract he became pants. exactly the same as he did at Troyes where the coach just hoiked him from the first team group after 6 or 7 totally effortless games. Found a patsy to take him of their hands as well, unfortunately we failed to do the same, perhaps there were no more unaware patsies about . I seem to remember someone warning us about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambertsrightleg Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Heard somebody at the game on Sunday absolutely laying into Cork and saying he should be dropped.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Heard somebody at the game on Sunday absolutely laying into Cork and saying he should be dropped.......... didn't think he was all that great on Sunday but dropped ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Torres is burnt out, When you're 28 and you've played about 600 games in 10 seasons you can understand why. Plenty of Spanish clubs would still give Chelsea 15 million for him though. Hammy injuries. Same as Michael Owen. Lost that yard of pace that used to terrify defenders. They were off the shoulder, face-to-goal type strikers. Still both decent enough finishers, but just not the players they were, well, my opinion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Boruc .... guilty, knew he used to be good but didn't think he had it any more based on the West Ham and Spurs games. Clyne ..... always thought he was alright Fox ... never thought he was any good Hooiveld .... DoesAJFU Fonte ..... never had a problem with him Yoshida ..... rated him at CB from day 1 Schneiderlin ... bit meh in his first season, has got better and better and better Guly .... never had a problem with him, still does a decent job when called on Davis .... not over bothered either way, decent jobbing pro Lallana .... always OK Jay Rod .... difficult start on the left, has improved and will make a Prem player (could do with scoring a few more goals tho) Ramirez .... obviously a good player but very limited impact so far. Will be a good player, but will it be in the Prem and will it be with us??? We need more players like Lambert and Shaw... they're both quite good too :-( What do I know, I liked Euell and Telfer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Wrote off Shaw after that game against Stevenage in the league cup, was appalling defensively that game (though probably not helped by being ill and having Seaborne anywhere near him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) Let me say that I must have been the first to write off Ali Dia...... Saw him run in warm up and knew straight away he had the wrong legs on... As regards Tommy Forecast.... knew straight away in warm up saw that he had someone elses arms on his body.. I am a football expert re Saints non footballers. PS Did I mention Anthony Pulis...........First saw him and knew straight away........When he said, I am not a footballer but my Dad was. Edited 27 February, 2013 by ottery st mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 List of players the experts of Saintsweb at some stage have written off Whereas what actually happened is 2 or three poster amongst the couple of thousand registered on this site posted something a bit stupid and others also expressed their doubts about whether they are good enough. Sadly not everyone on this board but well done you for pointing out these faults. From now on I shall consider you more intelligent than other, inferior posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Totally Lambert has to be in there. Think it was NA's first season. Also, in his previous time with us Jack Cork was never going to make it I didn't have a bad word to say about Lambert til we got to the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 With "the experts of Saintsweb", I refer to those posters who regularly starts threads like the Ramirez one. I'm fully aware that most on here are more sensible. And yes, I really think those posters are either WUMs or doesn't have a clue about football. The players mentioned on the list (and you could toss in a few more) have all at some point (some more often than others) been written off, and most of them have proved to be good players for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Wrote off Shaw after that game against Stevenage in the league cup, was appalling defensively that game (though probably not helped by being ill and having Seaborne anywhere near him) Agreed. Though he still looked decent going forward, weirdly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 where is punch! I've wrote him off loads! In some ways i wish he'd go back to scuffing his shots or firing over bar, it's very disconcerting to have him actually playing well and putting in net. Makes me feel like i know f.all bout f.ball! Well you are a Bear so what do you know about football? This all points to the I want it now generation again. You have a new player his first week on the pitch doesn't perform as if he was Messi or Gordon Banks so must be useless "why did the club splurge X amount on him he will never amount to the player that Y club have just signed under our nose." "lets get rid if him get Z player in who was doing well somewhere else" guess what Z's first game is atrocious and the cycle starts again. Regardless of how good any player is they must be given time to (and I hate this word ) gel with the other players. If the best players were always good with playing together the World Cup and European Championship would be a hell of a lot better tournaments. As apposed to the allegedly best players of a country in one team not having a clue as to what the other team members are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Its a chat forum, people express their opinions about players. Some are proved right, some are proved wrong. I defy anyone to honestly say they have not come away from a match and made the off the cuff comment that "_____ is bloody rubbish". Its forgotten by the next game. This is exactly the same as that, except its written down and other people instead of just the person you were talking to, see it and add a comment, usually on here telling you you are a moron for having an opinion about player X that they dont share. Every player who has ever worn a Saints shirt will have been slagged off at some point. The serial offenders are nine times out of ten the players that are, in the context of the rest or majority of the team they play or played in, not as good. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Not to mention players who were written off before they kicked a ball for us - Jhon Viafara, Jos etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I stilll maintain Fox Fonte Mayuka Hooiveld Guly Rodriguez Are **** or average at best, no jury needed squad players for a lower prem championship team if they are kucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I didn't have a bad word to say about Lambert til we got to the Prem. Did I name you? He had a bad start to the season and it took a few weeks until we learnt he had not had a good pre-season due to a niggling injury. From what I recall it took almost to Christmas before he started to play well again. Wasn't only the forum (me included) who questioned whether he would be better resting up and getting over the knock. Some did doubt whether he would come back - he did, story over, but in the context of the thread yes we all had an opinion on his effectiveness for the team - FFS the lad was playing at 60% so it was worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 The only two players I've written off in recent times are Lee and Fox. The fact Lee has been shipped out on loan and Fox is still as poor as he's always been mean I was justified in making those assessments in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 We sometimes confuse form with ability. There's context and any number of variables affecting performance. Torres, for instance, a great player badly out of form and who needs a change of club. Someone said would you take him for £5m. In an instant. He'd be great in our set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 We sometimes confuse form with ability. There's context and any number of variables affecting performance. Torres, for instance, a great player badly out of form and who needs a change of club. Someone said would you take him for £5m. In an instant. He'd be great in our set up. And sometimes some confuse current ability with potential. Take Jay Rod for instance. Clearly has potential, and could be a prolific premier league striker in a few years. Writing him off after 3/4 season in the premier league is clueless. As pointed out earlier in the thread, Beattie scored six times in his first 61 performances for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 And sometimes some confuse current ability with potential. Take Jay Rod for instance. Clearly has potential, and could be a prolific premier league striker in a few years. Writing him off after 3/4 season in the premier league is clueless. As pointed out earlier in the thread, Beattie scored six times in his first 61 performances for the club. Seen enough from Rodgrigues to be able to agree with that. My guess is that it's been a confidence thing with him. Performances remain uneven but overall on the rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 i think the problem here is people been listening to the wrong experts! Here is the best experts on saintsweb that people should be listening to: MLG - World renowned football analyst. Millons of people buy his softwares every year just to read his opinions on player attributes and potential abilities. Nuff said! Derry - i always read bout derry's opinions with maximum interest! I know people don't like his front sweepers and opinions on schneiderlins but they probably just ain't been coaching at high enough level VAGMAN - he seems to be picking the team & we've got two promotions under his tutelages! Everyone else can be safely ignored. They is mostly dumbass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Seen enough from Rodgrigues to be able to agree with that. My guess is that it's been a confidence thing with him. Performances remain uneven but overall on the rise. He might turn out to not be good enough as well. But giving up on him now is just plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 This is why we are posting on a forum and scouting for the top 4 !! As fans we are bound to write off players if they have a dry spell,at the end of the day we don't know as much about football as we like to think we do,that is why we are not managers at a professional level,just at armchair level !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) Did I name you? No, but the poster before you mentioned me and there were only 2 replies to the OP at the time ! FWIW Beattie was also mostly crap for Saints, aside from the 18 months when Strachan got him superfit enough to be effective for 90 minutes. No-one else managed to do that with him, so he was nothing like as good under anyone else (including Sturrock). I've never been particularly impressed with lumbering strikers. Edited 27 February, 2013 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 No, but the poster before you mentioned me and there were only 2 replies to the OP at the time ! FWIW Beattie was also mostly crap for Saints, aside from the 18 months when Strachan got him superfit enough to be effective for 90 minutes. No-one else managed to do that with him, so he was nothing like as good under anyone else (including Sturrock). I've never been particularly impressed with lumbering strikers. Yeah, add Kevin Davies in his second spell to that list. Did OK for notlob though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Yeah, add Kevin Davies in his second spell to that list. Did OK for notlob though Ha! That was the other one I was going to mention. Anyone of a certain level of ability can score goals if the whole team is set up around their strengths, it's being able to adapt in other systems that sets true top class strikers aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I stilll maintain Fox Fonte Mayuka Hooiveld Guly Rodriguez Are **** or average at best, no jury needed squad players for a lower prem championship team if they are kucky. If j rod is in the list then surely gaston has to be as IMO he's been better than gaston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Spurs were trying to shift Bale after his early run in their team. Look at him now.specifically Red**** and if Assou-Ekotto hadn't of got injured when he did, Bale would have been farmed off to Forrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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