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not convinced ramirez will ever deliver


Mr X

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Ouch....

 

You want to give Jos another game?

 

Normally agree with you but in the 2nd half there were too many occassions where he looked like his confidence had gone )or Boruc was not giving him a good call)

 

The forum is convinced that it was because Fox was playing. I'm not convinced that was the case. At times he had "that look" in his eyes that he had at Arsenal.

 

Fonte back from the start, Jos or Richardson on the bench IF they don't think Forren is ready yet

 

 

Did consider your selection but not sure how fit either Fonte or Forren are at this time..

 

If Poch the Coach thinks that Fonte/Forren...Fit enough to start then who am I to argue........

 

 

phil of the desert..........Would you remind me how you managed/coached the forum team versus Old Nick and his superstars?

 

Might just give me a clue about your ability to make team selections...:p

Edited by ottery st mary
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Joke comment by joke poster.

 

No not really you are living in dreamland if you think anyone is going to offer what we paid for Ramirez, in his current state he's worth five or six million at best you couldn't really say he's better than SRL at one million

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No not really you are living in dreamland if you think anyone is going to offer what we paid for Ramirez, in his current state he's worth five or six million at best you couldn't really say he's better than SRL at one million

 

A few facts to balance the situation

 

1) SRL is 31 years old with at best a couple more top seasons left in him, Ramierez 21 so his price will include far more potential than SRL's

2) He is already a full Uruguay International at a very young age with lots of room to improve

3) SRL was 1 million 4 seasons ago I would hazard a guess he is at least worth 5 to 8m now

4) SRL has been playing English football for years Ramierez is still getting used to the pace and physicality of the English game as well as being in a foriegn country and environment at a young age

 

 

So Ramierez will generally hold his price that is why we bought him! Be patient he will improve!

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A few facts to balance the situation

 

1) SRL is 31 years old with at best a couple more top seasons left in him, Ramierez 21 so his price will include far more potential than SRL's

2) He is already a full Uruguay International at a very young age with lots of room to improve

3) SRL was 1 million 4 seasons ago I would hazard a guess he is at least worth 5 to 8m now

4) SRL has been playing English football for years Ramierez is still getting used to the pace and physicality of the English game as well as being in a foriegn country and environment at a young age

 

 

So Ramierez will generally hold his price that is why we bought him! Be patient he will improve!

 

Wouldn't bother mate! Some people are just so short sighted they're almost willing certain players to fail just so they can say "I told you so"

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A few facts to balance the situation

 

1) SRL is 31 years old with at best a couple more top seasons left in him, Ramierez 21 so his price will include far more potential than SRL's

2) He is already a full Uruguay International at a very young age with lots of room to improve

3) SRL was 1 million 4 seasons ago I would hazard a guess he is at least worth 5 to 8m now

4) SRL has been playing English football for years Ramierez is still getting used to the pace and physicality of the English game as well as being in a foriegn country and environment at a young age

 

 

So Ramierez will generally hold his price that is why we bought him! Be patient he will improve!

 

Prepared to give him the rest of the season but if there's no improvement Italy can have him even if it means losing money

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Or maybe a full pre season under the new boss might help him?! Actually no, if he hasn't proved he's worth it in 6 months he should be put down.

 

Clown

 

Sooner surely we should see his class on Saturday against the bottom side? Are you happy with his performances and effort so far then?

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He won't look up to much for as long as we've got no-one with pace up front. Unfortunately for him, Rodriguez's best chance of a run is instead of Gaston, rather than alongside him. At least for the time being. He's a superbly talented player with no-one to get onto his through balls most of the time.

 

It's difficult to argue he deserves a place at the moment when the unit is operating pretty well, and sometimes you have to sacrifice your best players for the good of the team. Davis is working better with the pressing game at the moment.

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Just for a comparsion:-

 

Matt Jarvis, Cost West Ham £10.75 million, Premiership experienced (3 seasons), Age 26, England International.

 

Currently this season:

 

- 19 appearances (starts)

- 1 Goal

- Zero Assists

- Key Passes per game 1.3

- Dribbles per game 0.4

- Shots per game 0.9

- Pass success 73.8%

- Average passes per game 18.5

- Dispossed per game 1.1

 

Gaston Ramirez, cost us £12 million, No premiership experience, 22, Uruguay International.

 

Currently this season:

 

- 15 appearances (starts)

- 3 Goa

- 3 Assists

- Key Passes per game 1.3

- Dribbles per game 1.1

- Shots per game 1.9

- Pass success 79.9%

- Average passes per game 28.2

- Dispossed per game 2.4

 

 

In more games, the far more experienced, only marginally cheaper Jarvis who has played in this country all his life (speaks the language, used to the culutre, weather etc.) and has 3 season's to get used to the premier legaue has less assists, less goals, less dribbbles, less passes, less shots and is less successful in his passes. He does get disspossed less than Ramirez but that's understandable when you barely do anything in a game.

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hi can u stop trolling pls tokyos i'm trying to reinvent myself as respected main board opinionator

 

I'm gonna do important thread later bout Luke Shaw's arse. I have been studying v.closely and it seems to me he has v.large arse for 17 year old white male. I think this needs investigating.

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adam johnson don't seem to be pulling up no trees either

 

Adam Johnson, cost Sunderland £10 million, premiership experienced (about 6 seasons), 25, England International.

 

Currently this season:

 

- 24 appearances (starts)

- 4 Goals

- 4 Assists

- Key Passes per game 1.6

- Dribbles per game 0.9

- Shots per game 1

- Pass success 79.4%

- Average passes per game 28.2

- Dispossed per game 1.5

 

So in 9 games has 1 more goal and assist, slightly more key passes, less dribbles, less shots, slightly less pass success and same passes per game.

 

Both men have the 'premiership experience' many on here craved for, both are older so have had more time to develop and will be close to their peaks, both are English so have had no language or cultural adapting to do, both cost about the same as Gaston (and I would think are on the same wages).

 

Yet neither have performed better than Gaston.

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hi can u stop trolling pls tokyos i'm trying to reinvent myself as respected main board opinionator

 

I'm gonna do important thread later bout Luke Shaw's arse. I have been studying v.closely and it seems to me he has v.large arse for 17 year old white male. I think this needs investigating.

 

Intersting you say that. Was having a chat with a friend of mine who works in football, and gets a the odd bit of ITK news. He said that despite Luke having everything in his locker, and is a superb talent, the club are a bit worried about his weight. Something to do with his metabolism or something.

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Didn't he get it sent over from Italy?! Don't think it's new.

 

He did, mentioned it on the twitter ask thingy that he's had it for a while (and was quite proud of it). Can only guess a few of the lads have been looking forward to seeing/hearing it as its quite the change from the regular footballers car!

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No not really you are living in dreamland if you think anyone is going to offer what we paid for Ramirez, in his current state he's worth five or six million at best you couldn't really say he's better than SRL at one million

 

Why would we even consider selling him "in his current state"?

 

Just plain odd...

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Ramirez has too much quality to leave out, especially in home games. If we have Punch and AL tracking back to support full backs then leaving GR to play in behind Lambert is not risky, it is necessary in games where we may need a certain creativity and flair to unlock defences.

 

Within 30 seconds against Newcastle he played a first-time pass from a throw-in that bypassed 2 players closing him down, and immediately we were on the attack. Davis, Rodriguez, even Puncheon in the same situation would have passed backwards and invited pressure, GR has calmness, confidence and the ability to be the difference in games like QPR on Saturday.

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Adam Johnson, cost Sunderland £10 million, premiership experienced (about 6 seasons), 25, England International.

 

Currently this season:

 

- 24 appearances (starts)

- 4 Goals

- 4 Assists

- Key Passes per game 1.6

- Dribbles per game 0.9

- Shots per game 1

- Pass success 79.4%

- Average passes per game 28.2

- Dispossed per game 1.5

 

So in 9 games has 1 more goal and assist, slightly more key passes, less dribbles, less shots, slightly less pass success and same passes per game.

 

Both men have the 'premiership experience' many on here craved for, both are older so have had more time to develop and will be close to their peaks, both are English so have had no language or cultural adapting to do, both cost about the same as Gaston (and I would think are on the same wages).

 

Yet neither have performed better than Gaston.

 

 

 

Dont confuse the argument with facts.

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Ramirez has too much quality to leave out, especially in home games. If we have Punch and AL tracking back to support full backs then leaving GR to play in behind Lambert is not risky, it is necessary in games where we may need a certain creativity and flair to unlock defences.

 

Within 30 seconds against Newcastle he played a first-time pass from a throw-in that bypassed 2 players closing him down, and immediately we were on the attack. Davis, Rodriguez, even Puncheon in the same situation would have passed backwards and invited pressure, GR has calmness, confidence and the ability to be the difference in games like QPR on Saturday.

 

Problem is that I don't think we can play Gaston, Lambert and J-Rod. I think we're too attacking with those 3 playing, and we end up a bit all over the place. Add Lallana into that and we struggle defensively. First time Lallana has played in ages was on Saturday and no coincidence we let in 4 goals...

 

I rate Lallana, Gaston, Jrod, and Puncheon, but just not convinced they can play behind Lambert. We don't give enough cover and think that Davis gives us that slightly more solid work in the middle. However I do think there is a time and a place for all of them. Its a squad game, and MP has got to find a way of getting the balance right between attack and defence.

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First time Lallana has played in ages was on Saturday and no coincidence we let in 4 goals...

 

I agree with most of what you said to be fair, but I think the link between Lallana and conceding the 4 we did on Sunday is at best unfair, at worst down right scandalous.

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I agree with most of what you said to be fair, but I think the link between Lallana and conceding the 4 we did on Sunday is at best unfair, at worst down right scandalous.

 

Well, I wasn't saying that the goals were directly his fault, but pretty sure that we've let more goals in with him in the team that not. He doesn't offer the full back enough protection. Hugely talented but needs to up parts of his game.

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If United win 3-1 without Van Persie, does that justify leaving him out the next game? You play your best 11, which imo includes Ramirez.

 

Wow, welcome to 1994.

 

Man Utd clearly do NOT play their "best XI" (as in their best eleven overall players) in around half of their Prem matches, they play "the best XI for that specific match" considering the proximity and importance of matches before and after, the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, and quite often, how likely it is they'll get away with giving lesser players valuable experience.

 

FWIW they've only lost 2 matches Van Persie has started this season, but they've still chosen to leave him out of the starting line up 12 times. Reading, Fulham, West Ham twice, West Brom, CFR Cluj, Galatasaray, Braga, Chelsea (Lge Cup), Newcastle, Wigan and Everton have all been deemed "not worthy" of RVP this season. They are clearly not just picking their best eleven players all the time.

 

Ramirez is one of our most talented players, but if he doesn't suit a successful system then he can't expect to start. What I'D like to see is him bust a gut in training to show he can close down like Davis - that still might not solve the problem of who he passes to, though we have other midfielders who break through, and if he ups his workrate he can play alongside 3 from Rodriguez/Puncheon/Lallana/Lambert.

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Just feel that he needs to concentrate on basics and go back to doing things simple. I thought when he first joined, especially in his best 2 games (Villa and Newcastle (H)) he just got the ball and played it. He's an exciting player but he's not picking up the free kicks that he is probably used to winning when he was in Italy. He's just told to get up and we lose possession. Need him to start playing the ball before he gets tackled.

 

Also lets not forget that he was sensational in that first half vs Everton, so lets not say he can't play in this system.

 

He'll probably have a blinder on Saturday, and then be poor again vs Norwich.

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Wow, welcome to 1994.

 

Man Utd clearly do NOT play their "best XI" (as in their best eleven overall players) in around half of their Prem matches, they play "the best XI for that specific match" considering the proximity and importance of matches before and after, the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, and quite often, how likely it is they'll get away with giving lesser players valuable experience.

 

FWIW they've only lost 2 matches Van Persie has started this season, but they've still chosen to leave him out of the starting line up 12 times. Reading, Fulham, West Ham twice, West Brom, CFR Cluj, Galatasaray, Braga, Chelsea (Lge Cup), Newcastle, Wigan and Everton have all been deemed "not worthy" of RVP this season. They are clearly not just picking their best eleven players all the time.

 

Ramirez is one of our most talented players, but if he doesn't suit a successful system then he can't expect to start. What I'D like to see is him bust a gut in training to show he can close down like Davis - that still might not solve the problem of who he passes to, though we have other midfielders who break through, and if he ups his workrate he can play alongside 3 from Rodriguez/Puncheon/Lallana/Lambert.

 

Some good research and some good points. For me Ramirez does not compromise the need to field a side that will win that specific match. Against Everton in MP's first match he closed down very well imo and worked hard across Everton's defensive third. Also I feel my comparison with United and RVP was slightly misplaced. Teams fighting a relegation battle compared with a side 12 points clear at the top of the league face more sensitive selection issues imo, re less easy to leave out best players.

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