austsaint Posted 25 February, 2013 Share Posted 25 February, 2013 Much of our best creative Football this season has involved Ramirez, usually with Lallana, SRL or Punch involved too. For those inclined to question the Ramirez price tag in relation to performance how would you rate the value Rodriguez has given the club so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 25 February, 2013 Share Posted 25 February, 2013 A very talented player but I think he needs to work hard to reach the heights we expect of him.Presently. he does not justify a start as much as JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 25 February, 2013 Share Posted 25 February, 2013 I think people should also remember Ronaldo was experiencing his first senior football season during that first one at United at 18 years of age. And again, it's United. I suppose there is a very big risk in going for external, talented young players in that they are always very costly and like all other youngsters don't produce medium/short-term outstanding results for the team. It's complicated because you will always expect a 12m record signing to be an impact at least a few months into his club career, particularly in a club which has seen the likes of Bale, Walcott, AOC and now Shaw produce outstanding performances at a very young age. I also think that all the pampering he received from both fans and the atmosphere around the club hindered rather than helped. Trust me to say that the last thing a south american young talent needs is being given special treatment when he arrives at a new club and league. He had less than 5 minutes into his Saints career and we were already singing his name more times than that of other players who had been much more influential for a longer time. Dare I say, Lambert of all has been dedicated less chants this season! Then there is also the interviews once he showed a bit of his talent where the papers in their very own style kept asking questions to others about what a superstar he was. I remember this flash interview with Lallana and Adkins where the reporters kept going on about "it must be a privilege to play next to him" and "he really is great isn't he?" in their questions. He's a 20 year-old with two seasons for an average Serie A team FFS, not Diego Forlán! I believe this has made him drop the ball and believe he's got us in his back pocket, which is normal at his age. I always thought this season was going to be a miss for him given that he joined us at the 11th hour from a league of slower pace and more relaxed physical preparation, as well as moving to another country. I do believe that MP will not go on the love fest and will set high standards for him, and I am sure he will be a great success for us. However, he does need to offer a bit more right now, his price tag requires so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaneNero Posted 25 February, 2013 Share Posted 25 February, 2013 I have to agree. Personally I want to see him go. Cut our losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 25 February, 2013 Share Posted 25 February, 2013 Much of our best creative Football this season has involved Ramirez, usually with Lallana, SRL or Punch involved too. For those inclined to question the Ramirez price tag in relation to performance how would you rate the value Rodriguez has given the club so far? Comes back to the same question - our outlay of over £20m on Ramirez, Rodriguez and Mayuka, we haven't got enough return for that investment so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 February, 2013 Share Posted 25 February, 2013 Interesting that some of our players were getting visibly frustrated with Ramirez. We're not usually a team that does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressingon Posted 25 February, 2013 Share Posted 25 February, 2013 Comes back to the same question - our outlay of over £20m on Ramirez, Rodriguez and Mayuka, we haven't got enough return for that investment so far. You can add Gazza at 2.5 mil? to those three, clearly the manager doesn't think he's anywhere near ready for the premiership. It adds up to a huge spend for (so far) very little return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Randell Posted 25 February, 2013 Share Posted 25 February, 2013 You can add Gazza at 2.5 mil? to those three, clearly the manager doesn't think he's anywhere near ready for the premiership. It adds up to a huge spend for (so far) very little return. Bale was nearly sold to Birmingham for 3 million when he was 20. Now look at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 Bale was nearly sold to Birmingham for 3 million when he was 20. Now look at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 (edited) Comes back to the same question - our outlay of over £20m on Ramirez, Rodriguez and Mayuka, we haven't got enough return for that investment so far. Perfectly fair point but i'd just highlight the words "so far". Big IF but should mayuka fulfill his apparent progress, jay rod continue the steady progress he's made since december and ramirez turn his flashes of flair and ingenuity into being a consistant and core part of our attacking play it might seem like we've got rather good value for money (as the going rate is!). Edited 26 February, 2013 by UpweySaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 I have to admit that so far I don't think he's justified his price tag. There are several things you have to consider before you make a judgement on him though. - He's still in his early twenties, which means that he's got a long way to go in his career yet. If Gaston was 29/30 then I would say that he was very overpriced for the player that he currently is, but the fact of the matter is that he's got a lot of potential to fulfill. - He's come from the italian league, which is pretty different in terms of the football that they play. Teams are much more methodical and defensive, and the pace is a lot slower. Adjusting to the English league will take time, and don't forget that he's up against some of the best players in the world when he steps onto the pitch. - He's a flair player, which means that by his nature he will be inconsistent. I doubt there are many flair players in the world that have a great game week in, week out. - He's still settling into England. I know that seems like a bit of a lame excuse, but South America and even Italy are quite different in terms of culture to England. Once he settles in more to the way of life here i'm sure he'll be more confident and relaxed in his approach to life here. - He's our record signing, which puts a lot of pressure on young shoulders. He's not got a lot of experience in football either, so it's going to be difficult to cope. Remember Morgan Schneiderlin? Remember the abuse he got on this forum in his first season here? Look at him now, one of our best players and deemed worthy of a new 4 and a half year deal by the club. Gaston's time will come, whether it's with us or with somebody else. It's clear to see that he's got the potential to be an excellent player, it's just about fulfilling that potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 I think the funniest bit there is Carson Yeung giving Mcleish 40 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 Disappointed in the main, but flashes of excellence. Early days IMO it's up to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintmonkey1979 Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but i thought it may be of interest. http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/joel.amorim/122497/will-gast%C3%B3n-ram%C3%ADrez-leave-southampton-this-summer "Gastón Exequiel Ramírez Pereyra or as we know him best, Gastón Ramírez, is one of the most wanted players in Italy these days. The first team to have shown interest in the Uruguayan player was Inter Milan, but today, Juventus and AC Milan joined the race for him. The 22-year old Uruguayan International, who joined Southampton early this season from the Italian side Bologna, is according to the media one of the most impressive attacking midfielders currently playing in Europe and I totally agree with them. The media are also claiming today that besides these Italian teams, Barcelona was also interested in the player but Southampton’s transfer fee demands made the Catalan club refrain their interest. Gastón Ramírez has a transfer fee of around £35 million and that amount is not within the grasp of many clubs. However, and believing in what the media are saying, the transfer fee amount is not a problem for Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan. I used to watch Gastón Ramírez playing in Serie A last season and I have always thought that he was a talented player. When I knew that he was joining Southampton this season I was sure that he would make an impact, both in the club and in the Premier League. As far as I am concerned, Gastón Ramírez is a fantastic player. He has impressive ball control, fantastic dribbling and passing skills and the way he ‘treats’ the ball is a delight to the eye. I started to follow Southampton more closely after they signed Mauricio Pochettino, since I admire his work as a manager and I believe that if he is given time to work, he will reshape Southampton’s style of play from top to bottom. I also believe that Gastón Ramírez is very important for Southampton and that he will fit like a glove in the style of play that Pochettino is imposing. As a football fan, I hope that Gastón Ramírez doesn’t leave the club or the Premier League since it is because players like him that the Premier League is and will be the best football league in the World." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 £35 million? Sold to the man with the man with the moustache! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintmonkey1979 Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 £35 million? Sold to the man with the man with the moustache! That was my first thought too. Great bit of business if true, should someone be willing to stump up that kind of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 £35 million? Sold to the man with the man with the moustache! That was my first thought too. Great bit of business if true, should someone be willing to stump up that kind of money Thats silly money! Even if we potentially have the next ronaldo on our hands i'd bite hands off for that and worry about whether he goes on to be a world beater later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but i thought it may be of interest. http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/joel.amorim/122497/will-gast%C3%B3n-ram%C3%ADrez-leave-southampton-this-summer "Gastón Exequiel Ramírez Pereyra or as we know him best, Gastón Ramírez, is one of the most wanted players in Italy these days. The first team to have shown interest in the Uruguayan player was Inter Milan, but today, Juventus and AC Milan joined the race for him. The 22-year old Uruguayan International, who joined Southampton early this season from the Italian side Bologna, is according to the media one of the most impressive attacking midfielders currently playing in Europe and I totally agree with them. The media are also claiming today that besides these Italian teams, Barcelona was also interested in the player but Southampton’s transfer fee demands made the Catalan club refrain their interest. Gastón Ramírez has a transfer fee of around £35 million and that amount is not within the grasp of many clubs. However, and believing in what the media are saying, the transfer fee amount is not a problem for Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan. I used to watch Gastón Ramírez playing in Serie A last season and I have always thought that he was a talented player. When I knew that he was joining Southampton this season I was sure that he would make an impact, both in the club and in the Premier League. As far as I am concerned, Gastón Ramírez is a fantastic player. He has impressive ball control, fantastic dribbling and passing skills and the way he ‘treats’ the ball is a delight to the eye. I started to follow Southampton more closely after they signed Mauricio Pochettino, since I admire his work as a manager and I believe that if he is given time to work, he will reshape Southampton’s style of play from top to bottom. I also believe that Gastón Ramírez is very important for Southampton and that he will fit like a glove in the style of play that Pochettino is imposing. As a football fan, I hope that Gastón Ramírez doesn’t leave the club or the Premier League since it is because players like him that the Premier League is and will be the best football league in the World." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 If someone offers us anything over say £8m in the summer we'd be foolish not to take the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 26 February, 2013 Share Posted 26 February, 2013 If someone offers us anything over say £8m in the summer we'd be foolish not to take the money. For me its certainly too soon to be contemplating accepting a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Very young Very good Too few top performances But could prove excellent buy. Thought his ability and vision was stunning v Villa. Wonder if any of those prematurely writing him off did same with Morgan. Remember surprise that people couldn't see his ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Club newly promoted to the Prem makes a positive move to strengthen its team by smashing the club transfer record to bring in a Uraguan international playmaker and goal scorer. Only he turns out not to be worth a regular place in the team. Ramirez wasn't bought for his potential, he was bought to have an impact this season and it hasn't happened. That's not the player's fault as he can only play to his ability but it does raise a serious question about the judgement being made on players purchased. Who is making the decisions? So much for Chapter One. Chapter Two - Vergard Forren........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 He might be too lightweight for the Premier League and I'm not sure he really wants to be here any more. Nor am I sure that Pochettino has a lot of faith in him. I'd be surprised if he's here at the start of next season. Did here want to be here in the first place? I suspect a favour done and a good deal later, we take the hit on the transfer though for him being crap here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Let me think about this. Schneiderlin - fish out of water for 3 seasons according to some Lallana - cause of many of our early defeats by not helping out the full backs (plus taking one touch too many too often) Cork, oh yes he was rubbish when we were dropping through the leagues. Puncheon, he was so bad we couldn't even give him away on loan Boruc, yeah he was so bad The Chapel decided to take him on in a fight in the middle of a game. Lambert? Overweight, carrying an injury and crocked a couple of season ago There are two key things that Ramirez needs to do to become an asset to the team and a regular starter. 1) Stay on his feet and stop moaning/falling over if the wind blows 2) Get a run of more than 5 first team games without picking up a knock The only other issue is that he needs to stop trying to impress members of this forum and get on with simply playing to our style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Anyone remember how crap Morgan was when we first got him. Now look. Instant impact that we thought might happen? = No Probably going to be a hell of a lot better next season? = I think yes but will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 If someone offers us anything over say £8m in the summer we'd be foolish not to take the money. Joke comment by joke poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_southy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 People happy to sell after less than one season? The lad's best years are right in front of him. It's amazing how short sighted people are on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Let me think about this. Schneiderlin - fish out of water for 3 seasons according to some Lallana - cause of many of our early defeats by not helping out the full backs (plus taking one touch too many too often) Cork, oh yes he was rubbish when we were dropping through the leagues. Puncheon, he was so bad we couldn't even give him away on loan Boruc, yeah he was so bad The Chapel decided to take him on in a fight in the middle of a game. Lambert? Overweight, carrying an injury and crocked a couple of season ago There are two key things that Ramirez needs to do to become an asset to the team and a regular starter. 1) Stay on his feet and stop moaning/falling over if the wind blows 2) Get a run of more than 5 first team games without picking up a knock The only other issue is that he needs to stop trying to impress members of this forum and get on with simply playing to our style So you think he has been worth his money? On what basis do you think he will become worth £15 Million? Is this hope rather than expectation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Joke comment by joke poster. LOL, I think 90% of forum members would agree with me Ramirez hasn't come within a country mile of justifying his £12m price tag. Are we all joke posters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 LOL, I think 90% of forum members would agree with me Ramirez hasn't come within a country mile of justifying his £12m price tag. Are we all joke posters? No just you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 No just you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Why are people making comparisons with Schneiderlin? Completely different situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 This is going to be a golden thread in a year or so led yet again by Sour Mash and our new windup poster, per_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I love this forum not first fox now Garston. I bet a Guly is happy that he is injured at least it stops the negative mongs on here having a constant moan about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 ramirez just doesnt seem to want to play for us whole heartedly a skilled player there can be no doubt but in terms of contribution has to be one of our poorest. Do you think he will still come good or would he have come good by now if was going to. has he had long enough to improve? Mmm.....maybe, but isn't that what we said about Jason Puncheon a year or so ago ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydie Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 If someone offers us anything over say £8m in the summer we'd be foolish not to take the money. Never, ever, go into business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 So you think he has been worth his money? On what basis do you think he will become worth £15 Million? Is this hope rather than expectation? Firstly it was £11.8m. Secondly he is making the point that to have to be patient with these players. All of the above have been written off more than once on here and are now key players for us. Yes he's got some work to do but It would be foolish to write him off seeing as though he's rated so highly. Just have to have a bit f patience with him. As for the poster saying we should sell him for 8m.....wow I'm glad you don't run this club. Clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I love this forum not first fox now Garston. I bet a Guly is happy that he is injured at least it stops the negative mongs on here having a constant moan about him Those who write off Gaston already doesn't have a clue about football. History is full of players who didn't perform in their first season in PL, but then stroke back the next campaign. Gaston is young, clearly talented, and bagged with potential. Have some ****ing patience for once. Oh, and 110_persain: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Firstly it was £11.8m. Secondly he is making the point that to have to be patient with these players. All of the above have been written off more than once on here and are now key players for us. Yes he's got some work to do but It would be foolish to write him off seeing as though he's rated so highly. Just have to have a bit f patience with him. As for the poster saying we should sell him for 8m.....wow I'm glad you don't run this club. Clueless. I also made a point about Gaston actually getting a run of games where he STARTS every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Let me think about this. Schneiderlin - fish out of water for 3 seasons according to some Lallana - cause of many of our early defeats by not helping out the full backs (plus taking one touch too many too often) Cork, oh yes he was rubbish when we were dropping through the leagues. Puncheon, he was so bad we couldn't even give him away on loan Boruc, yeah he was so bad The Chapel decided to take him on in a fight in the middle of a game. Lambert? Overweight, carrying an injury and crocked a couple of season ago There are two key things that Ramirez needs to do to become an asset to the team and a regular starter. 1) Stay on his feet and stop moaning/falling over if the wind blows 2) Get a run of more than 5 first team games without picking up a knock The only other issue is that he needs to stop trying to impress members of this forum and get on with simply playing to our style imo, what he needs to do is stop getting the ball on the edge of the box, picking out the biggest clump of defenders, running straight into them and falling over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Gaston is going to be a very big star for us. Get behind the lad instead of moaning all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Interesting that some of our players were getting visibly frustrated with Ramirez. We're not usually a team that does that. Gaston is going to be a very big star for us. Get behind the lad instead of moaning all the time. I agree, and hopefully Gaston will be a big star for us. But shurlocks right, its not just this board getting frustrated. I only saw the toon game on saintsplayer, but even on the extended highlights that showed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I think he's almost trying too hard to justify his price tag. He just needs to do it a bit more simple and it will come for him. He seems to like running into tank defenders for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Much of our best creative Football this season has involved Ramirez, usually with Lallana, SRL or Punch involved too. For those inclined to question the Ramirez price tag in relation to performance how would you rate the value Rodriguez has given the club so far? Creative from Ramirez? What colouring in, dot to dot or abstract, he has been no more creative than say Puncheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I agree, and hopefully Gaston will be a big star for us. But shurlocks right, its not just this board getting frustrated. I only saw the toon game on saintsplayer, but even on the extended highlights that showed. Schneiderlin and Lambert spring to mind. The fans get behind him constantly. I can't believe that there are any fans that didn't expect a bit more from him so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) Gaston Ramirez is a tremendous talent and will deliver....starting with a star performance against QPR. I would have him in the team every time........ If all fit...team to start versus QPR Boruc Clyne Yoshida Jos Shaw Morgan Corky Puncheon Ramirez Lallana Lambert Subs......Kelvin Davis, Forren, Steve Davis, JRod, JWP, Mayuka, Fonte (if fit) Chaplow? or Fox? if Fonte not fit... Saints 4-1 COYS Will the Manager want to play JROD with Lambert at home? PLEASE NOTE you buggers........This is only my view and not necessarily a view held by the management... COYS...We had better win Edited 27 February, 2013 by ottery st mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 No one can argue he is talented, he simply has not performed since he has been here, his price is not justified as it stands and we did not need a luxury player if we were in a relegation fight, poor signing, extravagant signing, and a huge gamble that at the moment looks like a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Creative from Ramirez? What colouring in, dot to dot or abstract, he has been no more creative than say Puncheon. you do write some very odd things. They're completely different players for starters. Puncheon is a wide player, Gaston is a player who plays in behind a striker. I do wonder if you see us play half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Gaston Ramirez is a tremendous talent and will deliver....starting with a star performance against QPR. I would have him in the team every time........ If all fit...team to start versus QPR Boruc Clyne Yoshida Jos Shaw Morgan Corky Puncheon Ramirez Lallana Lambert Subs......Kelvin Davis, Forren, Steve Davis, JRod, JWP, Mayuka, Fonte (if fit) Chaplow? or Fox? if Fonte not fit... Saints 4-1 COYS Will the Manager want to play JROD with Lambert at home? PLEASE NOTE you buggers........This is only my view and not necessarily a view held by the management... COYS...We had better win Ouch.... You want to give Jos another game? Normally agree with you but in the 2nd half there were too many occassions where he looked like his confidence had gone )or Boruc was not giving him a good call) The forum is convinced that it was because Fox was playing. I'm not convinced that was the case. At times he had "that look" in his eyes that he had at Arsenal. Fonte back from the start, Jos or Richardson on the bench IF they don't think Forren is ready yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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