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Newcastle 4-2 Southampton // Post-Match Reaction


Saint-Armstrong

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Strangely all that we missed yesterday was Puncheon. Look I don't believe he is our best choice out wide because his mental decision making in the final 3rd is sluggish bordering on slow.

 

However what he DOES do is play lots of short passes in defending and helps cover Clyne.

 

With AL AND JRod on the pitch we were set up to be far more attacking. The number of Hollywood balls that AL attempted meant we never had time for the players to get into attacking support positions.

 

This is not a critique of Adam, just in a game where their manager is going to look at our tactics and come up with a plan (bang the ball into wide areas at every opportunity, we were back to the first few games of the season where our style left the FB's exposed in too many 2 on 1 situations.

 

For me the defeat was down to OVER confidence, too many fans were cocky and if I am honest I think MP set the team up to be too attacking away from home against a team with pace.

 

JP has many faults, but we lacked the short passes yesterday, either the pitch didn't allow us to play them OR the set up was wrong.

 

Needs more thought.

 

As for when Gaston came on, where was AL playing? Yes he had some effective moments as the game went on but he did seem to be playing FAR more centrally.

 

We looked bloody amazing for the first 10 mins of each half, Hopefully MP will now see why we could not keep that going.

 

4 goals? All had an element of luck 1st goal stupid hollywood pass left CLyne out of position & Cork didn't push their player to the line, lucky deflection off Boruc. 2nd should have been a FK to us not them, penalty? well that was stupidity and then comedy central. BUT Jos had looked decidely dodgy in the run up to that - almost as if on a couple of occassions he did NOT get a good shout from Boruc. Something wasn't quite right at the back, whether it was the Keeper directing him or he just had a back to normal day.

 

Anyway Blue Line and DO NOT under-estimate QPR FFS that will need 120% from the crowd as well as the team next week

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So Shearer invents a new offside rule. It's called "technically offside" which isn't offside as we all know it because although a player may be offside, he scores with a great shot and he scores for Newcastle Utd so the linesman would be imprisoned in the changing room if he gives it so the goal should stand. Glad that ones cleared up because it was bothering me a bit.

 

...yep along with the accidental deliberate, ball to hand, hand to ball catch all combo.:rolleyes:

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Didin't think we played too badly really.

 

Had Fox not made those mistakes and Newcastle not scored a wonder goal (offside) a draw was on the cards which would have been a decent point and we'd all have been happy.

 

11 games to go and our destiny is still in our own hands. I'd have taken that at the start of the season.

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I suspect that those who lauded Pochettino's tactical genius are pausing for thought after that result. As mentioned by others, there were certainly some questionable decisions like not playing Puncheon, making Lallana captain, bringing on Fox. Also, are we now a one-trick pony with our tactics of playing a high line? Was Pardew the first manager to counter that ploy by hitting the ball long and wide to expose our flanks with fast wide players?

 

MOTD highlights showed that the score should more probably have been 2-2, but coming off the back of beating the Champions 3-1 and our curent recent form, even that score against a team below us seems to be a reality check on where we really are. The pundits opined that although the Cisse strike was technically offside, it would have caused a riot if it had not been allowed, because of its sheer brilliance. But there seems to have been no dispute over whether the decision not to have flagged it offside was wrong, so bad refereeing. As for Fox being at the centre of two goals gifted to Newcastle, then I hope never to see him play for us again.

 

A bad day at the office, but I hope that Pochettino will show that he is capable of adjusting the tactics to take into account the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition rather than allowing them to find us out because we only play one way.

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The north eat has definitely not been a happy hunting ground this season. At Leeds we lost 3-0. at Sunderland the same and at Newcastle lost 4-2. Wondering where the team stay before the game, whether the air flight has any effect on some players. Some players definitely didn't turn up. Surprised Rodriguez wasn't replayed as he has a nightmare game.

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Surprised to see so much negativity over this game, watched all but the first few minutes (missed our goal, took me over an hour to drive the 17 km from work to home in about 3 feet of white shîte again). Thought we looked reasonably comfortable but lost to 2

unfortunate goals. One point that struck me though, we needed more efficiency in front of goal from our attacking midfielders, JRod,Lallana and eventually Gaston. They waste too many chances.

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The north eat has definitely not been a happy hunting ground this season. At Leeds we lost 3-0. at Sunderland the same and at Newcastle lost 4-2. Wondering where the team stay before the game, whether the air flight has any effect on some players. Some players definitely didn't turn up. Surprised Rodriguez wasn't replayed as he has a nightmare game.

 

We haven't played at Sunderland yet, and when we did play them, we certainly didn't lose 3-0! You spout some utter B*ll*cks sometimes, don't you?

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Surprised to see so much negativity over this game, watched all but the first few minutes (missed our goal, took me over an hour to drive the 17 km from work to home in about 3 feet of white shîte again). Thought we looked reasonably comfortable but lost to 2

unfortunate goals. One point that struck me though, we needed more efficiency in front of goal from our attacking midfielders, JRod,Lallana and eventually Gaston. They waste too many chances.

Agreed. Wasn't a great performance (worst under MP so far), but wasn't particularly bad either. THought we worked some really good openings in the 2nd half, but were either too slow or not ruthless enough with our final pass/shot.
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I suspect that those who lauded Pochettino's tactical genius are pausing for thought after that result. As mentioned by others, there were certainly some questionable decisions like not playing Puncheon, making Lallana captain, bringing on Fox. Also, are we now a one-trick pony with our tactics of playing a high line? Was Pardew the first manager to counter that ploy by hitting the ball long and wide to expose our flanks with fast wide players?

 

MOTD highlights showed that the score should more probably have been 2-2, but coming off the back of beating the Champions 3-1 and our curent recent form, even that score against a team below us seems to be a reality check on where we really are. The pundits opined that although the Cisse strike was technically offside, it would have caused a riot if it had not been allowed, because of its sheer brilliance. But there seems to have been no dispute over whether the decision not to have flagged it offside was wrong, so bad refereeing. As for Fox being at the centre of two goals gifted to Newcastle, then I hope never to see him play for us again.

 

A bad day at the office, but I hope that Pochettino will show that he is capable of adjusting the tactics to take into account the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition rather than allowing them to find us out because we only play one way.

 

Yes and no. They exposed us with the early ball down the channels, though I thought we recovered well and many times the crosses were dealt with comfortably. Boruc had a quieter day than he did in last four games.

Can't remember the build up for the first but typically the quick balls behind the fullbacks caused us problems when Newcastle won the ball higher up the pitch. Some credit must go to Newcastle's pressing, though some of the challenges they were putting were pretty reckless and generally allowed by the ref, typified by Tiote's lunge where he injured himself and play was stopped!

The personnel didn't necessarily work - Davis was brought in to be another ball winner and he was too lightweight (a big difference from other games). And the ref was very niggly which didn't help our pressing (contrast with Foy's laissez faire tribute to French day for the Geordies).

And finally, Newcastle have some very pacey players -wouldn't be surprised if they were the paciest team in the league. We won't come across that every week.

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Agreed. Wasn't a great performance (worst under MP so far), but wasn't particularly bad either. THought we worked some really good openings in the 2nd half, but were either too slow or not ruthless enough with our final pass/shot.

 

which to some extent can be accounted for by the rustiness of a two-week match absence.

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"Southampton were every bit as good as Chelsea and Metalist. We really had to be at our best" - Alan Pardew

 

Usual magnanimous winning manager b*****ks. We weren't poor (hence why most on here are ultimately singling out individual players) and the score doesnt reflect the game and the momentum we had at 2-2. But we're not as good as we've been. Most of our fans were pretty loud and defiant to the end which is usually a good barometer.

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Usual magnanimous winning manager b*****ks. We weren't poor (hence why most on here are ultimately singling out individual players) and the score doesnt reflect the game and the momentum we had at 2-2. But we're not as good as we've been. Most of our fans were pretty loud and defiant to the end which is usually a good barometer.

 

Tbf to Pardew, he is not the usual 'magnanimous winning manager b*****ks', when we played them down here he conceded that they'd been thoroughly dominated and outplayed. Thought his comments towards us were genuine, also had some nice words for Rickie too.

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The rule is the same as it has always been, "deliberately handling the ball". There are no references in the Laws of the Game to "ball to hand" or "hand to ball" or any of the other cock that some of the commentators/pundits come up with.

 

agree - and there was no way that was deliberate. The problem is the refs are playing by a different rule when it comes to handball and we have become so used to it we seem to accept it. Shocking decision in my eyes but far from the only one he made yesterday.

 

I think the ref was the difference between a 2-2 draw and a defeat.

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agree - and there was no way that was deliberate. The problem is the refs are playing by a different rule when it comes to handball and we have become so used to it we seem to accept it. Shocking decision in my eyes but far from the only one he made yesterday.

 

I think the ref was the difference between a 2-2 draw and a defeat.

 

There's absolutely no reason for Fox to have his arms up there, they're in an unnatural position and therefore it looks potentially deliberate. It was a penalty, and I would give that every single time.

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There's absolutely no reason for Fox to have his arms up there, they're in an unnatural position and therefore it looks potentially deliberate. It was a penalty, and I would give that every single time.

 

Disagree, looked natural from a balance perspective - and he did not move his arm at all, and unlikley to have time to get it out the way.... but we wuld have expected a pen had it happened to us

 

And the 4th was just unlucky - one of those things

 

My take home as I sat in the car headiung NOrth was our goals were excellntly taken moves - and but for rustiness we could have had a couple more - so not playing well or at our best, we should still have had a point IMHO - cant blame the lads for that.

 

Yes they got at us after 15 minutes and dominated the rest of that first half as we struggled a litle to cope with their counter pressing, but after half time we seemed to have adjusted a little and had the momentim at 2-2 following an excellent move and fine 100th finish by SRL. But although dissapointed with the result, the performance was not bad - not as good as previous games but not a sbad either.

 

I though Shaw had a slight knock as well as being cought out a little... things to work on, not teh best day in the office, but neither the worst.

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agree - and there was no way that was deliberate. The problem is the refs are playing by a different rule when it comes to handball and we have become so used to it we seem to accept it. Shocking decision in my eyes but far from the only one he made yesterday.

 

I think the ref was the difference between a 2-2 draw and a defeat.

 

The rules are clear, deliberate handball is not just simply punching the ball away from goal, it's also if your arms are in an unnatural position and you gain an advantage because of it. Look at Fox arm, it up near his shoulders, that is not a natural position when either running or tackling and it stopped the cross, therefore nailed on pen.

 

The ref didn't cost us the game crap defending did. Second goal is a long punt forward and Hoolivleld neither attacks the ball like a centre half should do, or pick up a runner and as a result hes in no mans land it breaks to man in space, great finish. Third is a def pen and the fourth is joke defending, why Fox is whacking the ball back across his own goal is ridiculous, basic defending to put it out for a corner or away from goal, not back across it.

 

It's too easy and convenient to blame the ref and not look at our own short comings, two sloppy goals conceded and poor defending.

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For those who saw the game, were we still defending high up and if so was the system sussed and exploited by Pards/Newcastle?

 

Yes to some extent - IMHO a 4231 pressing game does expose you to pacy wingers and over the top balls, which is why you need high fitnes and good covering from the wide players - and for their first goal this was a problem.... for the others, a brilliant goal, and unlucky ricochet and a givable but unlucky penalty.... but always a risk involved with the system, and Pards had the players to try and exploit it -On another day though we could have come away witha 3-1... without any change in the stats or way we played - so difficult to judge fairly as to whether the system is the problem...

 

 

... does not excuse the defending errors though.

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Fulham had a very similar penalty given against them at the weekend.

 

It suits the pundits to state pen when against the likes of Saints and Fulham..

 

Same situation against Newcastle....Shearer wwould have given the old craaaap ball to hand...hand to ball bollllux.

 

Same with Cisse being offside...etc a brilliant goal/lucky....but he was offside and should have been struck off...

 

Bolllux about the official getting out of ground alive......Man up Shearer and tell the truth.....

 

Saints did very well but for some bad luck...ANDPuncheon NOT being on from start..

 

AS USUAL...like many other refs...FOY is incompetent and gave soooo much help to Newcastle....:rolleyes:

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It's a natural position when trying to maintain ur balances, which is what he was doing.

 

Rules are rules, arms down by your sides it's not a pen, arms out streached and you gain an advantage it's a pen. It was a nailed on one and there would be plenty of squinying on here if we hadn't got one in similar circumstances. In fact the only people who don't seem to think it wasn't one are the usual Internet people who don't like hearing tht everything isn't anything other than super.

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Rules are rules, arms down by your sides it's not a pen, arms out streached and you gain an advantage it's a pen. It was a nailed on one and there would be plenty of squinying on here if we hadn't got one in similar circumstances. In fact the only people who don't seem to think it wasn't one are the usual Internet people who don't like hearing tht everything isn't anything other than super.

 

oh i weren't surprised to see it was pen. I do think the rule could be better tho cos pen sometimes seems harsh for the circumstances, specially when we're on the wrong end of it... Maybe indirect free kick if intent ain't obvious or something.

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Surprised to see so much negativity over this game, watched all but the first few minutes (missed our goal, took me over an hour to drive the 17 km from work to home in about 3 feet of white shîte again). Thought we looked reasonably comfortable but lost to 2

unfortunate goals. One point that struck me though, we needed more efficiency in front of goal from our attacking midfielders, JRod,Lallana and eventually Gaston. They waste too many chances.

 

Not wanting to knock Al at all, simply to point out a weakness he should work on.

 

The number of times he takes two or three touches outside the box is too many.

 

On a couple of occassions yesterday he had the chance to shoot, took a slow touch and the chance was gone.

 

He should watch Tevez for Citeh's second goal last night touchbang.

 

He's still learning but he COULD have done so much more yestersay

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Strangely all that we missed yesterday was Puncheon. Look I don't believe he is our best choice out wide because his mental decision making in the final 3rd is sluggish bordering on slow.

 

However what he DOES do is play lots of short passes in defending and helps cover Clyne.

 

With AL AND JRod on the pitch we were set up to be far more attacking. The number of Hollywood balls that AL attempted meant we never had time for the players to get into attacking support positions.

 

This is not a critique of Adam, just in a game where their manager is going to look at our tactics and come up with a plan (bang the ball into wide areas at every opportunity, we were back to the first few games of the season where our style left the FB's exposed in too many 2 on 1 situations.

 

For me the defeat was down to OVER confidence, too many fans were cocky and if I am honest I think MP set the team up to be too attacking away from home against a team with pace.

 

JP has many faults, but we lacked the short passes yesterday, either the pitch didn't allow us to play them OR the set up was wrong.

 

Needs more thought.

 

As for when Gaston came on, where was AL playing? Yes he had some effective moments as the game went on but he did seem to be playing FAR more centrally.

 

We looked bloody amazing for the first 10 mins of each half, Hopefully MP will now see why we could not keep that going.

 

4 goals? All had an element of luck 1st goal stupid hollywood pass left CLyne out of position & Cork didn't push their player to the line, lucky deflection off Boruc. 2nd should have been a FK to us not them, penalty? well that was stupidity and then comedy central. BUT Jos had looked decidely dodgy in the run up to that - almost as if on a couple of occassions he did NOT get a good shout from Boruc. Something wasn't quite right at the back, whether it was the Keeper directing him or he just had a back to normal day.

 

Anyway Blue Line and DO NOT under-estimate QPR FFS that will need 120% from the crowd as well as the team next week

 

I suspect that those who lauded Pochettino's tactical genius are pausing for thought after that result. As mentioned by others, there were certainly some questionable decisions like not playing Puncheon, making Lallana captain, bringing on Fox. Also, are we now a one-trick pony with our tactics of playing a high line? Was Pardew the first manager to counter that ploy by hitting the ball long and wide to expose our flanks with fast wide players?

 

MOTD highlights showed that the score should more probably have been 2-2, but coming off the back of beating the Champions 3-1 and our curent recent form, even that score against a team below us seems to be a reality check on where we really are. The pundits opined that although the Cisse strike was technically offside, it would have caused a riot if it had not been allowed, because of its sheer brilliance. But there seems to have been no dispute over whether the decision not to have flagged it offside was wrong, so bad refereeing. As for Fox being at the centre of two goals gifted to Newcastle, then I hope never to see him play for us again.

 

A bad day at the office, but I hope that Pochettino will show that he is capable of adjusting the tactics to take into account the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition rather than allowing them to find us out because we only play one way.

 

Two excellent summaries. Totally agree.

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For those who saw the game, were we still defending high up and if so was the system sussed and exploited by Pards/Newcastle?

 

IMHO no, certainly at times in the second half we leeoked back to our early days such as away to Everton when it was backs to the wall everyone bar Rickie within 5 yards of our Penalty area.

 

We did comment on it a few times. Whether it was a lack of confidence or AP's tactics scaring them back there remains to be discussed by the experts

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Probably our worst performance under Pochettino but still probably deserved a point, when we got back to 2-2 I thought we were going to win it, if chances has been taken at this point I think we would have, but our 'weak links' let us down. Fox and Hooiveld can't be relied on regularly and it showed yesterday.

 

The pen for me was a 'homer', I doubt it would have been given if it was a Newcastle player that had done it, and there were a few other debatable moments of refereeing that flattered Newcastle a bit. Overall though poor defending cost us the game, something that we have cut out mainly over the last 3-4 months so I'll put it down to a bad day. A few changes to personell needed next week against QPR which is a must win.

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Wasn't there a penalty shout against Jos in the first half? Maybe that influenced the ref a little. It's obvious that the ball struck his arm rather than the other way around but if it were rugby you'd say that he charged down the cross.

 

Yep there was. Foy was shocking, illustrated by the mismatch in yellow cards. The cynical foul on Lambert towards the end as he was driving into the box was worse than any of our bookings.

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Yep there was. Foy was shocking, illustrated by the mismatch in yellow cards. The cynical foul on Lambert towards the end as he was driving into the box was worse than any of our bookings.
Can't believe that wasn't a booking. Foy was poor, but it was a definite Pen for them, we can't really argue on that.
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Rules are rules, arms down by your sides it's not a pen, arms out streached and you gain an advantage it's a pen. It was a nailed on one and there would be plenty of squinying on here if we hadn't got one in similar circumstances. In fact the only people who don't seem to think it wasn't one are the usual Internet people who don't like hearing tht everything isn't anything other than super.

OK if you are Riverdancing but a bit difficult if you are running.

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Can't believe that wasn't a booking. Foy was poor, but it was a definite Pen for them, we can't really argue on that.

 

Couldn't really see it from row Y. Just think Fox was done all ends up by the long ball and caught turning and don't think he had his eyes on the ball, even if he had his arms out -whether to balance or make himself big (probably a bit of both). Think it was at the more innocuous end of the spectrum but seen too many of them given to be surprised and the way the ball stopped virtually dead made it easier for Foy. Certainly the players seemed more aggrieved about the second than the third.

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For those who saw the game, were we still defending high up and if so was the system sussed and exploited by Pards/Newcastle?

 

We began to sit deep in my opinion because the defence was worried about a) the ball over the top and b) Newcastle's pace. This stretched the game, left a lot of space at times between midfield and defence and undermined our pressing high up the field, something we were able to do for the first 15 minutes until Newcastle demonstrated their intent.

 

Tbf there were a few of us pre match highlighting the dangers to Saints high press of the long ball forward. Personally I thought Pochettino would have had a plan B to counter it as it can't have been the first time someone's thought of playing him that way. Other than moving Lallana to the right I couldn't see any change in tactics during the game.

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Probably a deserved defeat in the end. We sat back too much after going ahead and let them take the initiative. Sissoko was an absolute beast, strong and fast.

 

The referee was pretty bad, gave them everything. It was a penalty though and Fox really changed the game in favour of Newcastle.

 

It was great to see Rickie's hundredth goal. That alone made me glad to be there.

 

The Geordies were very friendly before the game, good banter and non-intimidating. Made for a good experience. I found the home fans to be very subdued even when 4-2 up, which was unexpected. It was almost as if they weren't sure where their hardcore support was. Premier League atmospheres are a disappointment. In fact it seems that however much we slate our home support sometimes, St Mary's has some of the best home support in the league.

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Probably a deserved defeat in the end. We sat back too much after going ahead and let them take the initiative. Sissoko was an absolute beast, strong and fast.

 

The referee was pretty bad, gave them everything. It was a penalty though and Fox really changed the game in favour of Newcastle.

 

It was great to see Rickie's hundredth goal. That alone made me glad to be there.

 

The Geordies were very friendly before the game, good banter and non-intimidating. Made for a good experience. I found the home fans to be very subdued even when 4-2 up, which was unexpected. It was almost as if they weren't sure where their hardcore support was. Premier League atmospheres are a disappointment. In fact it seems that however much we slate our home support sometimes, St Mary's has some of the best home support in the league.

 

Agree - another library atmosphere. No wonder the blue few got so many plaudits when they had the rest of the PL as competition. The Hawthornes is probably the noisiest place I've been to this season -and that's not saying much.

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Jos holds record for own goals in one premier league season! Congratulations Jos!

 

Only jointly at present (Jakobsson is on the joint list too). But there's time .............. ;)

 

 

Interestingly, we have the leading own-goal scorer, have scored the most own goals but have also benefited more than any other team from own goals.

Edited by Shroppie
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Just watched the penalty incident again.... Fox's arm goes up as an instinctual balancing motion at the same moment that he lunges into the tackle with his leg. Being the sad individual that I am I then did a picture search on Google for similar tackles and, almost without fail, the defender raises his arm as part of the lunge motion.

 

Some you win, some you lose, but I don;t think Fox did anything that the majority of defenders wouldn't have down in the same scenario.

Edited by trousers
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Just watched the penalty incident again.... Fox's arm goes up as an instinctual balancing motion at the same moment that he lunges into the tackle with his leg. Being the sad individual that I am I then did a picture search on Google for similar tackles and, almost without fail, the defender raises his arm as part of the lunge motion.

 

Some you win, some you lose, but I don;t think Fox did anything that the majority of defenders wouldn't have down in the same scenario.

 

Don't know if that's a real word, but if it isn't, it should be. ;)

 

And I agree it was harsh. Would it have been given at OT against Manure?

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Just watched the highlights again (well, up until their 2nd goal). What the f*ck did the referee give a freekick against Clyne for!? Handball? The ref is standing 20 yards away from the incident, his linesman didn't flag for handball, in fact the only people that claimed for it were the Newcastle fans on that side! All of that is irrelevant because Clyne gets grabbed and pushed over by their player even before that incident occurs.

 

Chris Foy is a complete waste of f*cking space and I hope that he's reffing the f*cking Wessex League by this time next year. I thought these were supposed to be the best refs in the country? I can count the number of balanced, fair and consistent refereeing performances i've seen this season on one hand!

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