Cricketphilly Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Surely the limitations attached to his departure has passed. Any factual reasons come out about his short lived tenure ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 he was just no where near good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 19 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 19 February, 2013 he was just no where near good enough Simple as that you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 he was just no where near good enough Random Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Simple as that you think?think lowe realised he/they hired a dud and got rid ASAP/as the soon ast he board would agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I remember rumours at the time saying his attitude and manner were unprofessional and slack, this didn't encourage confidence in the squad or his paymasters. There is no doubt that Sturrock had an excellent footballing brain but despite his CV and interview his face ultimately didn't fit. I personally believe that had he been backed over the players that didn't believe in him we would have survived that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I remember rumours at the time saying his attitude and manner were unprofessional and slack, this didn't encourage confidence in the squad or his paymasters. There is no doubt that Sturrock had an excellent footballing brain but despite his CV and interview his face ultimately didn't fit. I personally believe that had he been backed over the players that didn't believe in him we would have survived that year. An excellent football brain? Only ever done well in divisions 3+4.. Poor in the NpC and you think he would have had enough to go through a whole Prem season and do alright??? Would you think Martin Allen would do the same?? Or Paul buckle... Even maybe Darren ferguson?? Absolutely not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Was there not something about Beattie saying either he goes or I go? Not sure if I imagined made this up, but seem to recall something along those lines, though he did leave a couple of months later anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Got to love the thorough research and interview process used by the Board / Lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Was there not something about Beattie saying either he goes or I go? Not sure if I imagined made this up, but seem to recall something along those lines, though he did leave a couple of months later anyway. This and the turning up at the training ground in his trackies with a bacon sarnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 (edited) An excellent football brain? Only ever done well in divisions 3+4.. Poor in the NpC and you think he would have had enough to go through a whole Prem season and do alright??? Would you think Martin Allen would do the same?? Or Paul buckle... Even maybe Darren ferguson?? Absolutely not His lack of performance at those levels could again be due to his lack of personal savvy rather then a lack of ability. The top two divisions are ruthlessly professional and Sturrock has proven to be no mug with his achievements at Plymouth and promotions at Swindon and Sheffield Wednesday. It's easy to forget just how few league managers there are.... naturally only 92 in employment at one time. Sturrock's record puts him as one of the top 50 managers in the country. You do not achieve that without having a good knowledge of football, tactics and training. He was obviously not the full package though. The lack of appreciation of how his own personal image and demeanor could effect people's confidence in him, regardless of ability alone, will have been a shock to him. His own personal health issues will not be helping either. As for the managers you have mentioned, I rate Sturrock higher them all of them. Edited 19 February, 2013 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Sturrock's Saints record (which was basically win one, lose one) was significantly better than Redknapp's, and that's really all I have to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 He was nowhere near good enough to manage in the PL. If you want any evidence of this just look at the fact that he never managed another PL game after being sacked by us. As an aside, we seem to do a good line in having mangers in the PL who have no PL experience before us and never manage in the PL after being sacked. Off the top of my head.... Ian Branfoot Dave Merrington Stuart Gray Paul Sturrock Steve Wigely and I would be prepared to wager a certain Nigel Adkins will also end up being in this illustrious club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 He was nowhere near good enough to manage in the PL. If you want any evidence of this just look at the fact that he never managed another PL game after being sacked by us. I should imagine after his Saints experience that was his choice. He could have got a Championship job easily at the time, but chose to go back to the lower leagues managing Sheff Wed in League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 He was nowhere near good enough to manage in the PL. If you want any evidence of this just look at the fact that he never managed another PL game after being sacked by us. As an aside, we seem to do a good line in having mangers in the PL who have no PL experience before us and never manage in the PL after being sacked. Off the top of my head.... Ian Branfoot Dave Merrington Stuart Gray Paul Sturrock Steve Wigely and I would be prepared to wager a certain Nigel Adkins will also end up being in this illustrious club. Stuart Gray managed Villa in the Prem for two matches in Jan/Feb 2002. Wigley managed Bolton in the Prem for one match in 2009/10. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 and I would be prepared to wager a certain Nigel Adkins will also end up being in this illustrious club. Tempting........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Was there not something about Beattie saying either he goes or I go? Not sure if I imagined made this up, but seem to recall something along those lines, though he did leave a couple of months later anyway. That was another one of those fan rumours that was repeated so much everybody took it as fact. Sturrock actually went out of his way to say that it was absolutely NOT Beattie who was disruptive, but there was an established team member who caused him problems. The general consensus then moved on to suspect Dodd as being the troublemaker as he was the senior player at the time. Sturrock was given a very short time and his results weren't actually particularly bad, there was no replacement lined up, so you have to just assume that something behind the scenes was making him unpopular with either players or the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Thirteen whole matches he got, and we won the last one of them. He made quite the impression on me considering his short tenure, but I guess that was when I was going a lot. I saw us win at Man City and Wolves, losing on Niemi Tribute Day at Charlton (when about 5 of the youth team got squad numbers due to half the squad being "injured" and Niemi didn't play - which with hindsight was symptomatic of the lack of support he had from the players) and then utterly rolling over at Villa on the opening day when Folly made his debut. I remember vociferously defending his "direct but not long ball" style as well, we murdered City at the City of Manchester Stadium with that, Pahars had a field day as the outlet on the wing, but people were getting properly narky about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 It was the morning fried egg sandwiches that did for him !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 It was the morning fried egg sandwiches that did for him !! Ha! - I remember that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 (edited) It was the morning fried egg sandwiches that did for him !! If only he cleaned his shirt and chin, he would have got away with it. Edited 19 February, 2013 by Doctoroncall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Thirteen whole matches he got, and we won the last one of them. Just to be clear he won five and lost six. Two being drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Just to be clear he won five and lost six. Two being drawn. And that draw against the Barcodes, what a draw that was, Alan Blayney super hero.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 my opinion in sturrocks case is that he took over a well oiled machine that needed little tinkering at that time with some very good players...and the immediate results were a kind of honeymoon period..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Sturrock's record with us wasn't as bad as people are making out P13 W5 D2 L6 Roughly mid table form That said I think there were two main reasons to his departure. From day one there was a big personality clash between him and Lowe and their respective attitudes towards how things should be done. As alluded to above I remember hearing that rumour about how Lowe turned up to some press conference/media interview or smth in his best suit only for Sturrock to turn up in an egg stained t-shirt. It seemed to get to him in some way and feed on to the players because as soon as Jason Dodd apparently knocked on Lowe's door re: Sturrock, that was the end of him. The situation became unmanageable and it was always Sturrock that was going to get the chop. I actually think Sturrock should never have been given the job in the first place (weren't we linked with Bruno Metsu at that time?) and his entire time here appeared to be not much short of a shambles, even if the results weren't as bad as some people make out. It was always going to end in tears, especially when Steve Wigley was the best Lowe could come up with after Sturrock left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 my opinion in sturrocks case is that he took over a well oiled machine that needed little tinkering at that time with some very good players...and the immediate results were a kind of honeymoon period..... Yeah. That was very much the case when Stuart Gray took over and we beat Arsenal & Utd at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 my opinion in sturrocks case is that he took over a well oiled machine that needed little tinkering at that time with some very good players...and the immediate results were a kind of honeymoon period..... The results before he took over on the 4th March 04 stand as: Man Utd 3-2 Saints Saints 0-0 Fulham Arsenal 2-0 Saints Saints 3-3 Everton Blackburn 1-1 Saints We had only won one game in 10 games, a 2-1 Home win against hapless Leeds United. His first result was a 2-0 home win v Liverpool, we then proceeded to win 4 in 6. He revived a team that was beginning to lose it's way after Strachan announced his intended departure. His record in the season he was sacked was won 1, lost 1. Certainly no grounds for sacking on results alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Mikey Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Comments about his appearance are a bit harsh. The guy has Parkinsons! Clearly not good enough at Prem level. Did enjoy seeing us stuff City 3-1 away though...magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 ok colins...fair play to you if you think PS has, without doubt an exceptional football brain....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 ok colins...fair play to you if you think PS has, without doubt an exceptional football brain....... Better then anyone on here I have no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Sturrock's record with us wasn't as bad as people are making out P13 W5 D2 L6 Roughly mid table form That said I think there were two main reasons to his departure. From day one there was a big personality clash between him and Lowe and their respective attitudes towards how things should be done. As alluded to above I remember hearing that rumour about how Lowe turned up to some press conference/media interview or smth in his best suit only for Sturrock to turn up in an egg stained t-shirt. It seemed to get to him in some way and feed on to the players because as soon as Jason Dodd apparently knocked on Lowe's door re: Sturrock, that was the end of him. The situation became unmanageable and it was always Sturrock that was going to get the chop. I actually think Sturrock should never have been given the job in the first place (weren't we linked with Bruno Metsu at that time?) and his entire time here appeared to be not much short of a shambles, even if the results weren't as bad as some people make out. It was always going to end in tears, especially when Steve Wigley was the best Lowe could come up with after Sturrock left. This tallies with what I heard at the time and retrospectively as well. Sturrock's image was not what Lowe wanted at all plus wasn't SCW at the Villa game? The club needed to be sold at that time, Lowe was trying to re-invent the wheel with only a small stake in the business and old man Askham lurking in the background. It was a strange appointment and stank of panic at the time after the fans uproar over Hoddle's proposed return, which seemed to be cancelled at the last moment. I went to Man City and we played well and as say his results weren't that bad but the end to the season was limp and there were rumours that his position was under threat all summer. The summer signings - bar Crouch - were very lukewarm and the whole club had gone totally stale. People talk about politics at the club now but it was x1000 worse back then, very gossipy. I don't like Harry or his attitude when he managed us but could anyone have kept us up? The whole place was in nosedive and a nice bloke like Wigley was always going to be eaten alive in that environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Just to be clear he won five and lost six. Two being drawn. Well yeah, only just realised that might have been interpreted by some as "he only won one match" - that was not the case at all (hence my stuff about seeing us slaughter Man City playing direct football). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Yeah. That was very much the case when Stuart Gray took over and we beat Arsenal & Utd at home. Wouldn't quite go that far personally, our results under Gray prior to those 2 games were shocking. Remember us clearly suffering over Hoddle's walkout when Ipswich came to town and dispatched us 3-0 in Grays first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Wouldn't quite go that far personally, our results under Gray prior to those 2 games were shocking. Remember us clearly suffering over Hoddle's walkout when Ipswich came to town and dispatched us 3-0 in Grays first game. I'll post, for the nine millionth time, that Hoddle bailed on us when we still had to face almost all of the top half and had already played all but a couple of the bottom half - it was not dissimilar to this season's fixtures but in reverse. And Ipswich finished FIFTH that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitalsaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I thought it was Kevin Phillips who made the ultimatum, I'm sure that was a rumour at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I remember when he was appointed, it seemed like Lowe had decided on giving him the job because Plymouth knocked us out of the cup, therefore he must be a fantastic manager. Same thing happened with Dave Jones, iirc. Sturrock was so far out of his depth it was embarrassing, didn't he introduce some cross-country rambles in an attempt at team-bonding loike 'e uzed to doo at Plymufff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 (edited) He was nowhere near good enough to manage in the PL. If you want any evidence of this just look at the fact that he never managed another PL game after being sacked by us. As an aside, we seem to do a good line in having mangers in the PL who have no PL experience before us and never manage in the PL after being sacked. Off the top of my head.... Ian Branfoot Dave Merrington Stuart Gray Paul Sturrock Steve Wigely and I would be prepared to wager a certain Nigel Adkins will also end up being in this illustrious club. Call it top divison and add Nicholl (McMenemy,Hoddle and Ball didnt have much English top league experience other than Saints either (approx 1 season each at Sunderland, Swindon and Pompey) also none of them were sacked) Bates had no top division experience other than us but was a one club man till retirement ! On the other hand our so called experienced managers were Strachan, Souness, and Redknapp (not sure Souness and Redknapp can cope without a large cheque book and even then it's 50/50) so is it previous top level English Premiere experience that counts? Overall Saints successful managers in my opinion were Bates, McMenemy (after a poor first season), Nicholl (for a little while) Jones (did ok ), Hoddle, Strachan and Ball (in fairly short stints) and recently despite what you say Adkins (with all be it a limited and difficult run in the top divison) not much to shout about with the rest of our recent managers was there? Seems that our choices in the past had a relatively higher sucess rate than more recently! so was stability a factor? or is it just that managing was easier in the past? Also Fergueson has not managed a top divsion English club other than United, Marinho (Chelsea) and Wenger (Arsenal) are two other cases in point. Not sure Premier/top English divison experience is such an important factor! In fact since the advent of the premiership managers coming from outside the English top division seem to have had far more success than those in it (Only Dalglish to my recollection has managed more than 1 side in the top divsion and he won his title with Blackburn his first team as manager) Based on the above NC's decision and the arrival of MP at Saints doesn't seem as odd or as strange as it was made out to be initially!(putting aside of course the poor way in which Adkins was treated). Edited 19 February, 2013 by Saint Without a Halo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I remember when he was appointed, it seemed like Lowe had decided on giving him the job because Plymouth knocked us out of the cup, therefore he must be a fantastic manager. Same thing happened with Dave Jones, iirc. Sturrock was so far out of his depth it was embarrassing, didn't he introduce some cross-country rambles in an attempt at team-bonding loike 'e uzed to doo at Plymufff? And when did this game take place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Really don't get why everybody's slating the man. We came our closest ever to a champions league spot under him when at one stage we were something like 2 points behind 4th with 6 or 7 games remaining. The rest is/was history though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 (edited) Really don't get why everybody's slating the man. We came our closest ever to a champions league spot under him when at one stage we were something like 2 points behind 4th with 6 or 7 games remaining. The rest is/was history though. In fairness, we were 4th at Christmas 2003 under the management of Gordon Strachan. Since the announcement of his departure shortly after that it was essentially all downhill for the next 5 years until administration hit. Edited 19 February, 2013 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I think he has the best points to games ratio of any of our managers in recent times so it was strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Really don't get why everybody's slating the man. We came our closest ever to a champions league spot under him when at one stage we were something like 2 points behind 4th with 6 or 7 games remaining. The rest is/was history though. Pretty sure you are slightly confused there. It was Strachan, and we were 4th at xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Really don't get why everybody's slating the man. We came our closest ever to a champions league spot under him when at one stage we were something like 2 points behind 4th with 6 or 7 games remaining. The rest is/was history though. We were 5 points off 4th on 20th April 2004. With FIVE matches to go. But we were still 9th at the time... http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2003-2004/table/2004-04-20 Given that we were ACTUALLY 4th at Xmas 2003/4 which is when it's believed the news Strachan was leaving broke to the players (hence the demolition away to Fulham on Boxing Day) that's not all that great : http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2003-2004/table/2003-12-22 We were 12th and 9 points off 4th when Sturrock actually took over on 4th March 2004 though : http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2003-2004/table/2004-03-03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I think he has the best points to games ratio of any of our managers in recent times so it was strange. He did at least until Pardew took over, but that was mainly because he wasn't there long enough to ruin it (as we saw at the start of the season, you can have an unrepresentative run of 10-ish games), and of course Pardew and Adkins both have better records due to us playing in lower leagues with significantly more resources than our rivals. Hopefully it'll be an asterisk we can put next to Pochettino's record too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Pretty sure you are slightly confused there. It was Strachan, and we were 4th at xmas. Actually The9 just proved me right. I remember we had a game in hand over Liverpool who were fourth. At one stage our upcoming fixtures were at home to relegation-threatened Bolton, while Liverpool were away to title-chasing United. In typical Saints fashion we lost at home to the trotters... and Liverpool won at Old Trafford!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Actually The9 just proved me right. I remember we had a game in hand over Liverpool who were fourth. At one stage our upcoming fixtures were at home to relegation-threatened Bolton, while Liverpool were away to title-chasing United. In typical Saints fashion we lost at home to the trotters... and Liverpool won at Old Trafford!! You can't beat facts. I was surprised at what you'd said so I did the crazy thing and actually looked it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Actually The9 just proved me right. I remember we had a game in hand over Liverpool who were fourth. At one stage our upcoming fixtures were at home to relegation-threatened Bolton, while Liverpool were away to title-chasing United. In typical Saints fashion we lost at home to the trotters... and Liverpool won at Old Trafford!! Fair enough, that he did. Clearly, I was confused. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Wouldn't quite go that far personally, our results under Gray prior to those 2 games were shocking. Remember us clearly suffering over Hoddle's walkout when Ipswich came to town and dispatched us 3-0 in Grays first game. ...And to think we still gave him the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Sturrock went to 2 world cup finals, played in a UEFA cup final and won the SPL twice ( no mean achievement when not playing for Celtic or Rangers), people should remember that. He wasn't some sort of Mike Bassett wurzel who didn't know the game. He had a solid lower league record as manager, was a good player (certainly better than Kevin Phillips IMO) and therefore was worth a go. My issue with the whole thing, is why Lowe allowed him preseason. If he was going to get rid, he should of done it in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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