Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 the slating he gets in the press and the cringeworthy questions he gets in his press conferences is getting boring....he is clearly an excaptional manager who has....at times made mistakes...but a brilliant manager regardless......it seems the press (or parts of it) are relishing having a pop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Should have won trophies though, despite the excellent job he's done. He's become very stubborn it seems and he does it his way or no way. Still a shocking decision to let all your best players leave and replace them with average players. RVP went for £25m, that is ridiculous when worse players go for the same or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 My mate (a football journo) was at the presser yesterday. Text me with this gem... Arsene: [to journo] "Why are you looking at me?" Journo: "because it's your press conference" priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Arsenal under Wenger have failed spectacularly. Pretty football where you walk 6 goals into a weak opponents net doesnt cut it, you have to grind results out when you need to as well. Never understood the media overload or the Arsenal fan loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Ridiculous to suggest that Wenger has failed at Arsenal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Ridiculous to suggest that Wenger has failed at Arsenal.... He really never would be happy as a fan. I'd love to know what he'd moan about if he was a Barca fan. FFS Messi only scored twice today, and we only won by 5 goals. Our lead at the top is only 36 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Arsenal under Wenger have failed spectacularly. Pretty football where you walk 6 goals into a weak opponents net doesnt cut it, you have to grind results out when you need to as well. Never understood the media overload or the Arsenal fan loyalty. He has not failed as he To do any better would be to match the greatest of them all... Fergie And wenger simply does not have the money a few teams above him have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 You can't take Wenger in isolation without looking at Arsenal as a club. Always been run in a financially responsible manner yet he excelled when they were at Highbury where a capacity of 36000 must have considerably limited their income. They have also refused to pay silly wages although Walcott on 100k a week may mean that they've moved a bit on that one. Contrast the way the press treat Redknapp who can do no wrong - semi-literate and alleged brown-bag merchant and Wenger - educated, multi-lingual and (as far as we know) honest. Bit of inverted snobbery, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 He has not failed as he To do any better would be to match the greatest of them all... Fergie And wenger simply does not have the money a few teams above him have Does it make me a loser, or a happy clappy, or lacking ambition that I would happily take Arsenals 'failure' over the 16 or so years AW has been in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 You can't take Wenger in isolation without looking at Arsenal as a club. Always been run in a financially responsible manner yet he excelled when they were at Highbury where a capacity of 36000 must have considerably limited their income. They have also refused to pay silly wages although Walcott on 100k a week may mean that they've moved a bit on that one. Contrast the way the press treat Redknapp who can do no wrong - semi-literate and alleged brown-bag merchant and Wenger - educated, multi-lingual and (as far as we know) honest. Bit of inverted snobbery, I think. Perhaps. Although it may also be down to HR's absolute willingness to jump through every media hoop and be their little pet. How many car window interviews do you see from Arsene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 He has not failed as he To do any better would be to match the greatest of them all... Fergie And wenger simply does not have the money a few teams above him have Why would doing any better have to involve matching what Ferguson has done? There is a huge gulf in their achievements. For what it's worth I don't mind Wenger, I think he is good for the game, but games like Saturday against Blackburn is where he really lets himeslf and his club down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Why would doing any better have to involve matching what Ferguson has done? There is a huge gulf in their achievements.For what it's worth I don't mind Wenger, I think he is good for the game, but games like Saturday against Blackburn is where he really lets himeslf and his club down.but teams go out to lower league opposition now and then...didnt the mighty fergie get knocked out by palace at home last season.....and exeter a few years back...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Why would doing any better have to involve matching what Ferguson has done? There is a huge gulf in their achievements. For what it's worth I don't mind Wenger, I think he is good for the game, but games like Saturday against Blackburn is where he really lets himeslf and his club down. but teams go out to lower league opposition now and then...didnt the mighty fergie get knocked out by palace at home last season.....and exeter a few years back...? Wasn't this the first time Wenger had gone out the FA cup to a non-premier league side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 but teams go out to lower league opposition now and then...didnt the mighty fergie get knocked out by palace at home last season.....and exeter a few years back...? He did. But he also continues to win tons of trophies. Arsenal haven't. When was the last time they even looked like they might win the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Wasn't this the first time Wenger had gone out the FA cup to a non-premier league side?it was...dont get me wrong, I can see why arsenal fans are unhappy....selling their best to their rivals and getting knocked out of the league cup/fa cup like they have...but wenger is still an exceptional manager IMO.....who clearly has far less to spend on players than most of his rivals.....they have walcott on £100k a week....his rivals have whole squads like that and he still gets relative success........just a shame that we call for stability etc (in the papers) and it seems that are turning on him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 19 February, 2013 He did. But he also continues to win tons of trophies. Arsenal haven't. When was the last time they even looked like they might win the league?I suppose they wont until they are start spending £30+m on single players and start paying circa £200k a week for a group of players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I suppose they wont until they are start spending £30+m on single players and start paying circa £200k a week for a group of players Then why not try to at least win a cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Then why not try to at least win a cup?true....but as we all see, with not having a stronger squad as united, city and chelsea...they all put the league and the CL as higher priorites....rightly or wrongly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 true....but as we all see, with not having a stronger squad as united, city and chelsea...they all put the league and the CL as higher priorites....rightly or wrongly Which may be part of the modern game, but I can see why Arsenal fans at least expect a top 4 finish with a cup win on top every couple of years, not particularly unreasonable expectations I would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Which may be part of the modern game, but I can see why Arsenal fans at least expect a top 4 finish with a cup win on top every couple of years, not particularly unreasonable expectations I would suggest.not at all...but the way he is getting hammered in the media is way OTT...when they will be the next to call for stability about chelsea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Which may be part of the modern game, but I can see why Arsenal fans at least expect a top 4 finish with a cup win on top every couple of years, not particularly unreasonable expectations I would suggest. True, but they have qualified not just for the CL every season under his tenure, but also got to the 2nd round at least for quite a few consecutive years, including an appearance in the final, which they took the lead in IIRC? Did Lehmann revert to his previous incarnation as a clown and get sent off? Talking of clown keepers, they could have won the League Cup a couple of years ago if Sczency (sp) didn't also impersonate Bobo. I get why they are frustrated. But, I think they should be careful what they wish for. I could be way off the mark, but replacing AW would be huge. I believe he is so personally engrained in the entire set up at the club, that a change in management would likely set them back even further. I do think that he is perhaps a bit too stubborn for his own good, and has lost sight of success in this chase for his philosophy. Even his best teams 98 double winners, '04 Invincibles had experienced heads, leaders and 'destroyer' types (Campbell, Adams, Vieira). I really think with a couple of these types throughout the side they would be a lot more solid, consistent and a bigger threat for honours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Arsenal under Wenger have failed spectacularly. Pretty football where you walk 6 goals into a weak opponents net doesnt cut it, you have to grind results out when you need to as well. Never understood the media overload or the Arsenal fan loyalty. I have just read this comment again and I just want to highlight what a ridiculous comment it really is !!! Isn't Wenger Arsenal's most successful ever manager !? The club is being run at a profit, and they don't go and spunk 30m on 1 player. Yes they should have won a few more trophies in recent times, but the champions league is where all the money is, and they have qualified every single year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 True, but they have qualified not just for the CL every season under his tenure, but also got to the 2nd round at least for quite a few consecutive years, including an appearance in the final, which they took the lead in IIRC? Did Lehmann revert to his previous incarnation as a clown and get sent off? Talking of clown keepers, they could have won the League Cup a couple of years ago if Sczency (sp) didn't also impersonate Bobo. I get why they are frustrated. But, I think they should be careful what they wish for. I could be way off the mark, but replacing AW would be huge. I believe he is so personally engrained in the entire set up at the club, that a change in management would likely set them back even further. I do think that he is perhaps a bit too stubborn for his own good, and has lost sight of success in this chase for his philosophy. Even his best teams 98 double winners, '04 Invincibles had experienced heads, leaders and 'destroyer' types (Campbell, Adams, Vieira). I really think with a couple of these types throughout the side they would be a lot more solid, consistent and a bigger threat for honours. That is all true - but is it healthy for any club, particularly one of Arsenal's size, to be so reliant on one man? Maybe that has been part of the problem. He won't be there forever, so they'll have to look at life without Wenger at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 After all the flak he's taken since the Blackburn game, they'll probably go and do something daft like beat Bayern. His biggest problem has been his stubbornness in the transfer market - refusing to sign players in certain positions when the whole world could see they were crying out for it and selling his best players and replacing them with fairly average replacements (though in fairness, you don't know how much of that was down to the board and trying to balance the books). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 After all the flak he's taken since the Blackburn game, they'll probably go and do something daft like beat Bayern. I've been saying that, would be typical Arsenal. Should be a cracker tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Either delldays is Wenger's love child or a distant relative, or he's absolutely f**king mental. Wenger is and has been one of the poorest premier league managers for quite a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Either delldays is Wenger's love child or a distant relative, or he's absolutely f**king mental. Wenger is and has been one of the poorest premier league managers for quite a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Crikey, 110 is right. Poor Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Lads, with the quality at his disposal fourth is not good enough. How he failed to win the league when he had Van Persie, Nasri, Fabregas, Rosicky, Song, Walcott, Hleb, Cole, Toure, Gilberto Silva AND HENRY all playing at the same time is anyone's guess. Surely only the manager can be blamed for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Lads, with the quality at his disposal fourth is not good enough. How he failed to win the league when he had Van Persie, Nasri, Fabregas, Rosicky, Song, Walcott, Hleb, Cole, Toure, Gilberto Silva AND HENRY all playing at the same time is anyone's guess. Surely only the manager can be blamed for that. Kolo Touré all by himself would excuse anyone from not winning the league. Vastly overated lump. There's a lot of other crap in that list as well. Post for Post arsenal are inferior to all of the other top 3 teams. Arsenal's problem is that they don't pay enough and put too much importance on "emerging talent" which usually err fails to emerge. They are however are one of the richest clubs in Europe, only Bayen are richer. They don't pay well and they only buy "middling" players. Anyone with ambition p*sses off as soon as he's offered a couple of quid more. Oh last thing...too many frenchmen who don't come through because the standard of the French league is abysmally low. Anyone with a bit of pace and a bit of bustle can score a shedload in Ligue 1 and then Arsenal sign them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Lads, with the quality at his disposal fourth is not good enough. How he failed to win the league when he had Van Persie, Nasri, Fabregas, Rosicky, Song, Walcott, Hleb, Cole, Toure, Gilberto Silva AND HENRY all playing at the same time is anyone's guess. Surely only the manager can be blamed for that. that don't seem quite right, I'd of thought Walcott & Nasri joined after Cole was already sold for example. I reckon they're bout the 4th richest club so finishing 4th is bout par at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 that don't seem quite right, I'd of thought Walcott & Nasri joined after Cole was already sold for example. I reckon they're bout the 4th richest club so finishing 4th is bout par at the moment. nope Arsenal are the second richest club in Europe, probably less revenues than the others but far less debt as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Alright I give up. You guys can go back to sucking Wenger's **** now. Sorry for the interruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 nope Arsenal are the second richest club in Europe, probably less revenues than the others but far less debt as well. don't try me to high with ur facts windows i probably meant most spendiest rather than least debtiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Alright I give up. You guys can go back to sucking Wenger's **** now. Sorry for the interruption. why do these disputes always end with me sucking someone's cock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 why do these disputes always end with me sucking someone's cock? Actions speak louder than words mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Actions speak louder than words mate. Or just that someone has run out of logical arguments. I can't stand the bloke, but to say he's crap is just nonsense. That list you post is disingenuous, cole was sold in 2006. He never played with theo, and Nasri wasn't signed until 2008. Yeah a lot of players were there, but most signed as kids, developed and usually sold on at a hefty profit at different points in their trophyless spell. It's not as if they were all at their peak whilst playing in the same team. Though let's face it, you've shown yourself really, false facts and then resulting to "oh just suck his cock" when you are wrong. What are you six? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Oops I predict a riot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 @StanCollymore: Bayern. 4-5 players who travel rapidly from half way to 18 yd box. How football should be. The art of running with the round thing. Now, where have we seem a team playing like that recently...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 (edited) QUOTE: nope Arsenal are the second richest club in Europe, probably less revenues than the others but far less debt as well. :QUOTE Have they paid for The Emirates then? It wasn't exactly cheap - I always thought that's why they were reluctant to pay huge transfer fees and wages. I remember someone calling it Cashburden Grave. Edited 19 February, 2013 by Trader Forgot quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 I have just read this comment again and I just want to highlight what a ridiculous comment it really is !!! Isn't Wenger Arsenal's most successful ever manager !? The club is being run at a profit, and they don't go and spunk 30m on 1 player. Yes they should have won a few more trophies in recent times, but the champions league is where all the money is, and they have qualified every single year. Wow, your 2nd attempt to respond was worse than the 1st. You sound like Rupert Lowe.... I reckon most Arse fans would quite happily trade in a year's participation in the first round of the Champions League for a Premiership title... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 19 February, 2013 Share Posted 19 February, 2013 Wow, your 2nd attempt to respond was worse than the 1st. You sound like Rupert Lowe.... I reckon most Arse fans would quite happily trade in a year's participation in the first round of the Champions League for a Premiership title... I'm not convinced. As a top club if they slip out of the champs league, then they'll struggle to bring in players and financially it's not acceptable for them to not qualify. I cannot see any reason in how you can say Wenger has failed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 20 February, 2013 Share Posted 20 February, 2013 I'm not convinced. As a top club if they slip out of the champs league, then they'll struggle to bring in players and financially it's not acceptable for them to not qualify. I cannot see any reason in how you can say Wenger has failed!!! I would say an empty trophy cabinet is all the evidence that is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 20 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 20 February, 2013 I would say an empty trophy cabinet is all the evidence that is required.you could say, moyes is failure and redknapp isnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 20 February, 2013 Share Posted 20 February, 2013 you could say, moyes is failure and redknapp isnt Yes you could. But you seem to be forgetting which clubs are involved. Redknapp is commonly perceived as a results getter (FA Cup win, avoiding relegations though coveniently forgetting ours), so isnt seen as a failure overall. Moyes is at Everton - not a big club by modern-day standards imo, so mid-table respectability is probably viewed as reaching their level. But Wenger is at ARSENAL, FFS. A team that is always in the Champions League and top 4, but with no cigar. They regularly go AWOL when it really matters. Something is lacking there, and its Wengers responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 20 February, 2013 Share Posted 20 February, 2013 Yes you could. But you seem to be forgetting which clubs are involved. Redknapp is commonly perceived as a results getter (FA Cup win, avoiding relegations though coveniently forgetting ours), so isnt seen as a failure overall. Moyes is at Everton - not a big club by modern-day standards imo, so mid-table respectability is probably viewed as reaching their level. But Wenger is at ARSENAL, FFS. A team that is always in the Champions League and top 4, but with no cigar. They regularly go AWOL when it really matters. Something is lacking there, and its Wengers responsibility. I dont think you can argue with Alpines logic in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 20 February, 2013 Share Posted 20 February, 2013 Ain't it that before Arsene rocked up at highbury Everton and Arsenal had v.similar records? Edit: I mean i can't argue with logic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 20 February, 2013 Share Posted 20 February, 2013 (edited) Yes you could. But you seem to be forgetting which clubs are involved. Redknapp is commonly perceived as a results getter (FA Cup win, avoiding relegations though coveniently forgetting ours), so isnt seen as a failure overall. Moyes is at Everton - not a big club by modern-day standards imo, so mid-table respectability is probably viewed as reaching their level. But Wenger is at ARSENAL, FFS. A team that is always in the Champions League and top 4, but with no cigar. They regularly go AWOL when it really matters. Something is lacking there, and its Wengers responsibility. They're only in the Champions League and top four (FFS) because of Wenger. Thats why they are a big club "by modern standards" (FFS) and Everton aren't. If they'd stuck with, say, Bruce Rioch, they could now be just another middling Spurs, Villa, Everton or even worse Leeds, who won the league more recently than the pre-Arsene Arsenal. Edited 20 February, 2013 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinger Posted 20 February, 2013 Share Posted 20 February, 2013 But Wenger is at ARSENAL, FFS. A team that is always in the Champions League and top 4, but with no cigar. They regularly go AWOL when it really matters. Something is lacking there, and its Wengers responsibility. But they're only regulars at that level under Wenger's tenure, so if he's not meeting standards then it's standards which he has set. I don't think it's completely black and white. He's clearly built Arsenal into a major European club over the years and played some brilliant football. However IMO the reason he's not won anything for several years has less to do with relative levels of finance and more to do with a consistent failure to address obvious problems. So for example it took several seasons to get in a decent keeper (some would say they're still struggling here), better teams will bully their midfield as they've never adequately replaced Viera, it took season after season for them to learn how to defend a corner when everyone could see it was a problem. He keeps complaining about a lack of character in his teams, but surely that's the manager's responsibility? He hasn't suddenly become a bad manager, but he is seemingly quite stubborn and inflexible in his approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 20 February, 2013 Share Posted 20 February, 2013 He has not failed as he To do any better would be to match the greatest of them all... Fergie And wenger simply does not have the money a few teams above him have I think Arsenal have more than enough money to challenge for the title, trouble is it's not made available for him as the owners would rather it all get split between the shareholders. Totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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