Britain in 2008 is a dung heap

[1976_Child]

I have just had the worst, most depressing two weeks of my life. I am utterly disilusioned about this country. Britain in 2008 is a complete toilet. New labour is as dead as a Dodo. The country is now about as good as bankrupt. There is no way in hell that the country's economy will grow at the rate that Badger Darling thinks it will in 2010/11 which will mean that the country will need to be bailed out by the IMF again. Gordon Brown is possibly the most idiotic charlatan ever to occupy Number 10. He said - and believed - that he had ended Boom and Bust! What a f@cking plonker. We are now in the biggest 'bust' since the last ice age.

 

It doesn't seem to matter how hard I work, I never seem to make enough money. I am never going to be able to buy a house - even if the market crashes - because when the banks start giving out mortgages again they are going to insist on a minimum of 25% deposit. Where the f\/ck am I going to get that sort of money from? Even if I could find a house for £150,000 - fat chance - then I would still need about £40,000 in savings. Christ, I can't even save £100 a month!!! And now the country is bankrupt we will all have to pay substantially more in taxes in the coming years. I don't believe we have been told the whole deal yet either - we are going to be raped for all we've got.

 

I f**king well hate this country. It is a total toilet. The only thing I would miss if I wasn't to live here would be SFC. I am 32 years old and can honestly see no future ahead. So much for progress. We are all ****ed. I mean seriously, I lie awake at night worrying about what how I am going to pay the rent and bills in the new year. I have enough work to cover me until February and then I am homeless and hungry. And the thing that really ****es me off is that I am - and i am not blowing my own trumpet by saying it - a highly qualified self-motivated bloke who has never had a handout from the state and never wants one. This time last year I was looking forward to growing business. I had tonnes of work. I had to turn people away! Now there is absolutely bugger all.

 

How the **** can Darling, Brown and for that matter Cameron and Osborne, understand how the country is feeling when they have rock solid salaries and gold-plated, diamond encrusted pensions? How can the t0ssers who ran the banks into the ground just get up and leave with million pound bonuses?

 

I honestly think we are in for a decade of strife and falling living standards. There are too many people crammed on this small little island, all chasing an ever decreasing amount of work. I think we are in for a civil war. **** this **** hole. I really ****ing hate Britain. If I saw a politician walking down the street I'd go up to him and punch him in the face.

 

**** Britain. we are all ****ed, nothing is Great about Britain anymore.

[Robsk II]

Who do you blame?

[1976_Child]

Who do you blame?

 

I blame all of us for thinking that we can live off debt.

I blame the governments - past and present - for progressively wrecking our manufacturing base, which is the only genuine creator of wealth.

I blame the greed culture which puts personal consumption above long term prosperity.

I blame fat-cats and work-shy lay-abouts.

I blame greed.

I blame mass immigration for putting an ever increasing strain on the country's resources. 200,000 net increase last year alone!!!!

I blame idiots who think that being against mass, uncontrolled immigration is the same as being a card-carrying racist. It isn't.

I blame the bloated public sector. Many do worth while jobs but many also do completely non-jobs which we wouldn't miss if they weren't doing them.

 

And I blame the ****ing skates.

Edited 27 November, 2008 by 1976_Child

[Robsk II]

Good. These are sensible points, and in this context, the immigration point has validity. Yet I also see the other things as contributing more.

[Thedelldays]

I too do not like what this country has become..cant put my finger on a single issue...just hate what it has become..

 

which is that i am in the forces doing something for this country...but then again, being in the forces you tend to live in a slight bubble so to speak and keeps me a tad seperate from the ****e hole that is the UK and/or england

[bridge too far]

I guess you have two options, 1976.

 

1) emigrate

2) try to change things

[1976_Child]

I guess you have two options, 1976.

 

1) emigrate

2) try to change things

 

1) Can't emigrate. No money.

2) Would love try to change things but no political party even remotely interests me. They all spout such utter self-interested drivel.

[1976_Child]

I too do not like what this country has become..cant put my finger on a single issue...just hate what it has become..

 

which is that i am in the forces doing something for this country...but then again, being in the forces you tend to live in a slight bubble so to speak and keeps me a tad seperate from the ****e hole that is the UK and/or england

 

Respect. Are you on the front line, on the high seas or in the air? It must make your blood boil to realise that the interest payments on Britain's national debt - interest only! - is going to be more than the total defence budget! And the government can't even find enough money to buy the guys in Afghanistan decent land rovers and helicopters. Disgusting isn't it.

[Weston Super Saint]

1) Can't emigrate. No money.

 

You could always borrow the money, load up the credit cards etc, then leave

[Sheaf Saint]

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say 1976 Child. This country has become a godawful depressing sh1thole to live in and it doesn't look like anything is going to change that anytime soon.

 

I was watching the Amazon series with Bruce Parry recently where he stayed with the indigenous tribes along the river who have virtually no contact with the outside world and I remember thinking to myself that living like that would be so much simpler. I know they have different kinds of stresses and concerns, but they all seemed so happy, and don't have to worry about pointless sh1t like the credit-crunch, recession, negative equity etc...

 

As it stands I am still out of work since I was made redundant at the end of september. I've got enough money to survive for a few months but then, if noting comes up in my industry soon, I am right-royally screwed. I live alone and have a mortgage (which is now in negative equity but that's the least of my worries!) and I need to be earning over a certain amount in order to make ends meet. The job centre staff are possibly the most condescending and unhelpful bunch of w@nkers I have ever come across. Every time I visit they try and get me to apply to do some crap minimum-wage job, but it's just not an option because the second I go back to work, my JSA and payment protection insurance payouts on my mortgage dry up and I would be a lot worse off.

[1976_Child]

You could always borrow the money, load up the credit cards etc, then leave

 

No. I have morals.

[Weston Super Saint]

No. I have morals.

 

Meanwhile thousands of scrotes without morals are thriving.

 

There's a moral to that story somewhere too.

[Thedelldays]

Respect. Are you on the front line, on the high seas or in the air? It must make your blood boil to realise that the interest payments on Britain's national debt - interest only! - is going to be more than the total defence budget! And the government can't even find enough money to buy the guys in Afghanistan decent land rovers and helicopters. Disgusting isn't it.

 

 

i am in the submarine service and the navy takes the biggest hit in the annually defence cuts (fair doos at this moment in time) and yes, there will be more cuts, yet want to send more people out to afghan...something has to give...

 

and it has been a very common occurance in the past and now in shortage of kit for us...safety boots that we wear everyday etc...not so long ago, the soles came off mine at the front and as there was none available I had to use think black masking tape to repair them...i mean, come on...

 

this country sickens me at times and im quite lucky i one respect that i have a forces life so to speak.....

 

i bought my flat in may 2007...no doubt i will never get what i paid for it...thus ****ing me right over...

 

I hate the fact that the country is full and yet, you say such a thing you get branded a racist or told that immigrants are great etc...

 

THE COUNTRY IS FECKING FULL

 

 

to top it off..i will now have to pay MORE for the council to take my very small amount of waste away, which they do less frequantly..and people think this is great

[Saint Martini]

I'm not sure the country is "full", there's a country that is a lot fuller right next to you but the UK does have some real problems. That said, several other countries with slightly inflexible economies in Europe have similar problems (just look at the amount of people fired in Sweden over the last month).

 

Your comment about the equipment for the military is also something that happens everywhere in Europe. The Dutch are sending their army out on missions more and more but in the meantime they don't invest in equipment for the people actually their which has led to many of them buying their own equiment which gives them better protection.

[Baj]

I see every recession/depression as an opportunity.

 

If I'm not preparted to leave the country, then I am going to get off my own back and make it work. Running my own business, I consider that if I can make it through the next couple of years (which Im sure I can) I will come out the other side prosperer.

 

Dont get my wrong, you are complete within your right to moan, and I really feel for your situation, but really the only thing we can do is talk with our votes or with our feet (leave).

 

As far as tax is concerned, I consider us lucky, we pay significantly less than the other major European nations.

[Thedelldays]

I'm not sure the country is "full", there's a country that is a lot fuller right next to you but the UK does have some real problems. That said, several other countries with slightly inflexible economies in Europe have similar problems (just look at the amount of people fired in Sweden over the last month).

 

Your comment about the equipment for the military is also something that happens everywhere in Europe. The Dutch are sending their army out on missions more and more but in the meantime they don't invest in equipment for the people actually their which has led to many of them buying their own equiment which gives them better protection.

 

 

i could not care less what happens in europe etc..i could not careless if the dutch also dont have enough kit...does not make it right at all..

 

I care about this country (well used to) and the fact it is supposed to be one of the top3-5 wealthiest in the world yet..yet, im sure more pensioners will die in the next few weeks as they cant afford to hea their houses..

 

meanwhile...some **** will probably get a sex change on the NHS due to them being "different"...

[1976_Child]

I see every recession/depression as an opportunity.

 

If I'm not preparted to leave the country, then I am going to get off my own back and make it work. Running my own business, I consider that if I can make it through the next couple of years (which Im sure I can) I will come out the other side prosperer.

 

Dont get my wrong, you are complete within your right to moan, and I really feel for your situation, but really the only thing we can do is talk with our votes or with our feet (leave).

 

As far as tax is concerned, I consider us lucky, we pay significantly less than the other major European nations.

 

Yeah, you are right to a certain degree: recessions can create good opportunities to grow a business but it all depends on having capital to invest. If you are skint then no amount of luck will help.

 

As for us being a low tax country, sorry that is complete nonsense. Maybe as judged by income tax but someone who earns 20k per year will end up paying nearly 50% in taxes in total: income tax, NI, fuels, excise, VAT, council etc.... we are VERY heavily taxed and nothing ever gets any better.

[bridge too far]

Yeah, you are right to a certain degree: recessions can create good opportunities to grow a business but it all depends on having capital to invest. If you are skint then no amount of luck will help.

 

As for us being a low tax country, sorry that is complete nonsense. Maybe as judged by income tax but someone who earns 20k per year will end up paying nearly 50% in taxes in total: income tax, NI, fuels, excise, VAT, council etc.... we are VERY heavily taxed and nothing ever gets any better.

 

I refer you to a parallel thread:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5477&page=3

 

post 121 gives you a link to comparative tax data world wide.

[Deano6]

Surely it's only a bad place to live if you're facing unemployment. Everything else is going pretty much in your favour - low interest rates, falling mortgage payments, discounted shop prices, tax concessions.

[bridge too far]

Surely it's only a bad place to live if you're facing unemployment. Everything else is going pretty much in your favour - low interest rates, falling mortgage payments, discounted shop prices, tax concessions.

 

That doesn't help 1976 though, unfortunately.

 

1976 - you're not the only one. My youngest daughter and her (teacher) husband can't afford to buy a property either.

 

But I'm old enough to remember that every generation struggles to buy property for the first time. I certainly did and then had to struggle for a second time after my divorce.

 

You'll get there eventually

[Saint Martini]

i could not care less what happens in europe etc..i could not careless if the dutch also dont have enough kit...does not make it right at all..

 

I care about this country (well used to) and the fact it is supposed to be one of the top3-5 wealthiest in the world yet..yet, im sure more pensioners will die in the next few weeks as they cant afford to hea their houses..

 

meanwhile...some **** will probably get a sex change on the NHS due to them being "different"...

 

Fair enough but you do realize that the same reason that those pensioners cannot pay the heating next week is the low tax rate Baj just mentioned. Britian has a high degree of everyone takes care of themselves attitude and that is the result. If you want better services and public sector you sort of have to go scandinavian.

[Baj]

Fair enough but you do realize that the same reason that those pensioners cannot pay the heating next week is the low tax rate Baj just mentioned. Britian has a high degree of everyone takes care of themselves attitude and that is the result. If you want better services and public sector you sort of have to go scandinavian.

 

Indeed, I spend a LOT of time in Belgium and Germany, I see quite clearly the level of tax local of these countries have to pay... and I also see how fantastic the health care, unemployment benefits and pensions are in these countries.

[Saint Martini]

Indeed, I spend a LOT of time in Belgium and Germany, I see quite clearly the level of tax local of these countries have to pay... and I also see how fantastic the health care, unemployment benefits and pensions are in these countries.

 

Funny how you should mention pensions, the Belgian ones are (or ar least were, the literature I have is a few years old) the second best in the world.

[bridge too far]

If I ever wanted to emigrate (I don't) I'd choose Scandinavia for sure.

 

The child care / parental leave is awesome just as one example.

[Baj]

Funny how you should mention pensions, the Belgian ones are (or ar least were, the literature I have is a few years old) the second best in the world.

You should see the hospitals... granted I've only ever been to maternity wards, but the country is an example of how good socialised medicine can be.

 

When the missus has to use the NHS, its frankly cringeworthy...

[Thedelldays]

Fair enough but you do realize that the same reason that those pensioners cannot pay the heating next week is the low tax rate Baj just mentioned. Britian has a high degree of everyone takes care of themselves attitude and that is the result. If you want better services and public sector you sort of have to go scandinavian.

low tax rate?

 

we have the worlds 4th largest economy ffs.....alot of that is thanks to tax...

[Baj]

low tax rate?

 

we have the worlds 4th largest economy ffs.....alot of that is thanks to tax...

5th, and Im sure I dont need to point out that GDP is no measure of social prosperity, Brazil is 10th ffs

[Thedelldays]

5th, and Im sure I dont need to point out that GDP is no measure of social prosperity, Brazil is 11th ffs

thanks....we are no third world country infact one of the wealthiest to boot....

 

tax tax tax....

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I blame all of us for thinking that we can live off debt.

I blame the governments - past and present - for progressively wrecking our manufacturing base, which is the only genuine creator of wealth.

I blame the greed culture which puts personal consumption above long term prosperity.

I blame fat-cats and work-shy lay-abouts.

I blame greed.

I blame mass immigration for putting an ever increasing strain on the country's resources. 200,000 net increase last year alone!!!!

I blame idiots who think that being against mass, uncontrolled immigration is the same as being a card-carrying racist. It isn't.

I blame the bloated public sector. Many do worth while jobs but many also do completely non-jobs which we wouldn't miss if they weren't doing them.

 

And I blame the ****ing skates.

 

I didn't take a shine to your first points, although your anger and frustration obviously drove you to write like that. Your second post is far more lucid and is very succinct. Most of us tree hugging lefties would agree that immigration does need to be controlled, and we're hardly BNP members are we?

 

And lastly, on a lighter note, it's not just the Skates fault. The blame also lies with Rupert. Don't ask me why, I just felt like blaming the poor soul!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I too do not like what this country has become..cant put my finger on a single issue...just hate what it has become..

 

which is that i am in the forces doing something for this country...but then again, being in the forces you tend to live in a slight bubble so to speak and keeps me a tad seperate from the ****e hole that is the UK and/or england

 

You need to stay in that bubble for as long as you can!

[Mao Cap]

1) Can't emigrate. No money.

2) Would love try to change things but no political party even remotely interests me. They all spout such utter self-interested drivel.

 

If you don't want to become involved in the political process then you can't complain.

 

See THIS is the problem...everyone mouths off a great deal and then do f*ck all. Just sayin'.

[Saint Martini]

low tax rate?

 

we have the worlds 4th largest economy ffs.....alot of that is thanks to tax...

 

Make that per capita and all the hightaxed nordic countries score higher. Low taxes go a long way in helping the economy but they are not everything.

[Ponty]

Is it hypocritical to complain about immigration in one breath and then hypothesise about emigrating "to improve the quality of life" in the next?

 

I think it probably is.

[Thedelldays]

If you don't want to become involved in the political process then you can't complain.

 

See THIS is the problem...everyone mouths off a great deal and then do f*ck all. Just sayin'.

you can complain if you want...isnt that what a democracy is about????

[norwaysaint]

If I ever wanted to emigrate (I don't) I'd choose Scandinavia for sure.

 

The child care / parental leave is awesome just as one example.

 

Amen, we are heavily taxed here but there is plenty to make up for it and despite not really being paid more, I'm far better off than I ever was in England.

 

For a start, I was able to buy land (1100 sq m by the sea) and build a decent size house for less than 150k (2 years ago), now worth much more than double that. I also never buy on credit since I emigrated. So none of this credit stuff affects me as my mortgage payments are my only worry.

 

We do get a year off with kids on 80% pay. I still think it should be more.

 

Before I emigrated a few years ago I lived in a shared house, had no savings and owed money on my car and a couple of credit accounts. I live on crappy teacher pay too.

 

Emigrating was the best thing I ever did. You'd be surprised at how different Britain looks from the outside.

[Kadeem Hardison]

You'd be surprised at how different Britain looks from the outside.

 

Does it look taller on television?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

you can complain if you want...isnt that what a democracy is about????

 

Yes, but surely to be in the 'democracy club' one has to join it? The subscription is made by filling in the electoral register sheet, which should have come through your doors recently, and then voting whenever asked to, be it in Council Elections or a General Election. That way you can vote for the candidate who most closely mirrors your aspirations. One day, just one day you might get lucky! But having voted at least you get to complain.

 

You pays yer money you takes yer choice.

 

You pay no money you get no choice.

 

Pay up or shut up! (sounds rather impolite, but you get my drift?)

[1976_Child]

Is it hypocritical to complain about immigration in one breath and then hypothesise about emigrating "to improve the quality of life" in the next?

 

I think it probably is.

 

No. it is not hypocritical in the slightest. If I did leave Britain I would either go to Canada or Australia, both of which have strict immigration policies based on points and ONLY allow you in if they need the talent and skills you would bring. I am a skilled software engineer and i know for a fact that both Canada and Aus are actively trying to lure IT specialists in. The difference between them and Britain could not be starker. We allow anyone, regardless of skill or whether the country needs them. That is why it is not hypocritical. They are actively asking me to go join their country.

[bridge too far]

No. it is not hypocritical in the slightest. If I did leave Britain I would either go to Canada or Australia, both of which have strict immigration policies based on points and ONLY allow you in if they need the talent and skills you would bring. I am a skilled software engineer and i know for a fact that both Canada and Aus are actively trying to lure IT specialists in. The difference between them and Britain could not be starker. We allow anyone, regardless of skill or whether the country needs them. That is why it is not hypocritical. They are actively asking me to go join their country.

 

Then why don't you? I'm not being rude. If you really hate it so much here, and you have this chance, why don't you take it?

[1976_Child]

If you don't want to become involved in the political process then you can't complain.

 

See THIS is the problem...everyone mouths off a great deal and then do f*ck all. Just sayin'.

 

Well as it happens I used to be involved in politics. I have also written to my MP on several occasions and even gone to meet him at one of his surgeries. Lots of nodding and sympathy - my issue was not recession-related - but nothing got done.

 

Sorry mate, but I don't think I am alone in thinking that most politicians are self-serving and don't really give a toss about you or me. For Christ's sake they even vote on their own pay!! The fact that the labour goverment under Blair has also moved to more of an executive based government rather than a parliamentary democracy. And as for being lied to about the Iraq war... i have not and never will forgive them for misleading me. There never were any weapons of mass destruction. Blair LIED to the country and got away with it. A really sordid episode.

[1976_Child]

Then why don't you? I'm not being rude. If you really hate it so much here, and you have this chance, why don't you take it?

 

Because I can't even afford the air fare, let alone have the requisite funds to allow me in. Another difference between Canada/Aus and Britain is that you have to prove you have enough cash to last for a year with out a job with out being a drain on the new country. How different it is here! Just walk through passport control with no money at all and you are entitled to all we have to offer: get your kids taught, get free health, get a house etc.

 

If I had 20,000 quid I would be on the next plane out of here. I don't so I have to stay.

[bridge too far]

Because I can't even afford the air fare, let alone have the requisite funds to allow me in. Another difference between Canada/Aus and Britain is that you have to prove you have enough cash to last for a year with out a job with out being a drain on the new country. How different it is here! Just walk through passport control with no money at all and you are entitled to all we have to offer: get your kids taught, get free health, get a house etc.

 

If I had 20,000 quid I would be on the next plane out of here. I don't so I have to stay.

 

That isn't the case.

[Weston Super Saint]

That isn't the case.

 

We agree on something!

[1976_Child]

That isn't the case.

 

Yes it is. I have seen it with my own eyes. And that is why the utterly repulsive BNP is gaining in those areas where it happens. Perhaps if the main parties woke up to how ****ed of people are with it then the Nazis might not be making such grounds. This is not a white versus others issue. It is an issue of fairness and an appreciation that the country can't keep on soaking up 200,000 people a year without there being serious strain on resources

[bridge too far]

We agree on something!

 

Woo hoo

[bridge too far]

This explains how immigrants are generally not entitled to benefits

 

http://consultation.hartlepool.gov.uk/inovem/getfile.ti/forcedownload/2946/9573.1/application+pdf/332a4e41283f214b2b4a3c5b58484c3323212a4933303c5f43512023300a/28.06.06%20Immigration%20and%20entitlement%20to%20services%20handout.pdf

[1976_Child]

Weston, let me ask you a question:

 

Do you think it is easier to move up the social ladder in 2008 than it was in 1997? In other words, do you think social mobility - the ability to better oneself - is easier now or harder?

 

I know which one I would say. From bitter experience social mobility has got a lot more difficult. that is why I am so angry. It is not the situation i am in per se, but it IS because I can not, in all honestly, see anyway that it will be able to improve. I have no house, not a penny of savings (except in my tax account!!), I don't even know what a pension looks like, I am working harder and harder, 15 hour days, and getting NO WHERE. It is very angry-making, believe me. I am very scared about the future. And I am a qualified worker in the IT industry! God knows how people with no GCSEs are getting by. They really don't have a chance.

[Weston Super Saint]

I agree with you.

 

It IS much harder than it was, and unfortunately it's only going to get harder still before it gets better.

 

But like BAJ has stated, it's times like these when small businesses will either flourish or fail. If you can ride this out and make a few quid then the other side is going to look like a bed of roses!!

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that people with a trade are much better placed during a recession as people will always take the cheaper option of getting things repaired rather than buying new to replace.

 

You've already said you have enough work to last you until February, so use the time until then to gain more contracts, I guarantee that software engineers will be in demand as computers go tits up and people want them to work again. Failing that can you not look for another job working for someone else during the rough times, become a wage slave again, but at least you'll have regular hours and a regular wage. If nothing else it will serve to increase your contacts for the time you go it alone again.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

thanks....we are no third world country infact one of the wealthiest to boot....

 

tax tax tax....

 

and you should be entirely grateful for it - how much does one of those boats you work in cost to build and then maintain? tax money has paid for your training, tax has paid your wages, and tax will pay your pension.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Weston, let me ask you a question:

 

Do you think it is easier to move up the social ladder in 2008 than it was in 1997? In other words, do you think social mobility - the ability to better oneself - is easier now or harder?

 

I know which one I would say. From bitter experience social mobility has got a lot more difficult. that is why I am so angry. It is not the situation i am in per se, but it IS because I can not, in all honestly, see anyway that it will be able to improve. I have no house, not a penny of savings (except in my tax account!!), I don't even know what a pension looks like, I am working harder and harder, 15 hour days, and getting NO WHERE. It is very angry-making, believe me. I am very scared about the future. And I am a qualified worker in the IT industry! God knows how people with no GCSEs are getting by. They really don't have a chance.

 

If it's such a struggle and you're as qualified and hard-working as you say then really should think about a change of tack. I know that's much easier said than done but it sounds like you should be directing your efforts elsewhere.