Question for qualified/active referees.

[Bensfcno1]

This morning, we had a a shocking referee in our 11 aside game. I'm not going to mentions teams etc as that could get me into trouble. Or am I going to bore you with a long list of what he did wrong.

 

The main decision which I would like to ask about, was his decision to disallow a goal because the other teams player who was running the line said it was 'handball'. I know it wasn't a handball (because our players who where closest to it and the player who scored said so after in the dressing room, and confident the lino couldn't see as I was stood in front of him after playing a ball inside their left back which produce the cross.

 

Anyway, the questions are

 

1) the referee gave the goal and then changed his mind after speaking to the lino, Can he do this?

 

2) I have always been told when running the line, or heard referees tell other player that they are there to help with offsides and throw in or goal-kick/corner decisions. In the past I have even been told off for flagging for a foul. So what is the rule (written or otherwise) on what the linesman/woman is aloud to assist the referee with? Considering the level of football that does not get impartial assistants.

 

Thanks

[Thedelldays]

I always thought u less you are a ref then running the line is for offsides and throw in decisions only

 

That may be wrong though

[SaintBobby]

Obviously Saints related.

 

We was robbed.

 

Again.

[Window Cleaner]

The correct answer is : It's local league football with lowly qualified refs and amateur(and usually biased) linesmen.The ref is perfectly right to consult his assistants but as they're usually unqualified and hugely biased the result of the consultations is usually wrong. You just have to suck it up.

[sydney_saint]

You must remember that they are not a'linesman' or someone running the line. They are the assistant referee. In general the middle of the pitch and quarters of the field where there is no assistant is governed by the referee (which is why they run diagonally) whilst the quarters where there is an assistant will also be governed by them. So whilst the ultimate call belongs to the referee in the middle, the assistant has the full right to assist in decision making of any nature, whether it be a handball, verbal insults between players or fouls. Also I wouldn't listen too seriously to your teammates. There have been decisions I've made where there have been clear handballs but players have denied and are adamant to their team mates after the match that they didn't.

[Huffton]

Its up to the ref how much he gets his assistants to flag for. As some have said usually with lower level games he/she will only want ball out of play/offside decisions, some however are happy to be 'helped' with fouls. He/she is perfectly within their rights to chanfe their mind after consulting an assistant.

[sydney_saint]

P.S. Don't flatter yourselves guys about the impartiality of referees. They may be poor, but it's not because they are biased. Half the time they haven't even heard of your club and really couldn't be assed to be biased, what is in it for them? They may just have a poor game. It is pretty insulting to think otherwise.

[Barry the Badger]

If you're playing at a level where a player from the other team is running the line, you should probably just get over it and accept it doesn't really matter because you're all quite s**t anyway.

[Saint-Armstrong]

1) Yes, the referee can do this.

 

2) It's up to the referee. Normally as a ref if I am given a club official I just ask for offsides and goal-kicks/corners.

[Bensfcno1]

Thanks to the helpful responses. And thanks for the for the laughs other have with trying to be big time. I play at a level with my mates and enjoy which also allows me to watch saints everyweek and work Sunday's as and when needed. Doesn't mean I can't take it serious or be annoyed by poor decisions or results. Plus I never said the ref was being biases deliberately!

 

We have some muppets who post on here don't we?

[Smirking_Saint]

1) Yes, the referee can do this.

 

2) It's up to the referee. Normally as a ref if I am given a club official I just ask for offsides and goal-kicks/corners.

 

This

 

It sort of depends on the level but generally the ref will only ask for the linesman to flag for offsides.

[Dalek2003]

You were lucky someone was running the line. When I used to play park football we sometimes just had a referee. This was a thankless job and running the lining and calling 'offsides' was equally thankless.

I did referee a few times but did not enjoy it, people call you all sorts of names and you are never right !

[Kingsland Red]

'Club' linesmen only can call off side and the direction of throw ins in the Hants County Youth League and Hants Premier League. ( I have been linesman in the HPL and run a team in the HCYL)

Hope this helps.

[Barry the Badger]

We have some muppets who post on here don't we?

 

Says the man who got so upset about a poor decision in what is basically a semi-organised kick about that he came on Saintsweb and posted it on the main forum. Nice work, princess.

[Kingsland Red]

If you want clarification best to speak with the Hants FA referee guy:

 

http://www.hampshirefa.com/aboutus/staff

[jawillwill]

Well if the player who scored and all his team mates said it wasn't handball, it can't have been.

[Dr Who?]

As a referee, at this level I just ask of offside and out of play, as well as foot faults. Apart from this which I can also overrule on anything that an assistant referee gives, even if they are qualified ones, I make the decision.

 

As it was a clubs assistant I would not have over ruled my decision at all, and given it on the basis of what I believed was correct.

 

If I had qualified assistants I would give then a quarter of the field where they can 'assist' and as thy are not connected to any of the clubs, I would take there advise and have a chat with them where required to make a decision. If it was on my blind side I would take their decision.

[CB Saint]

Sh1t refs, you always get sh1t refs.....

[Lord Duckhunter]

I played local football at various levels for 32 years, including some that was high enough to have qualified linos, but most just had a qualified ref, with the kit man or such like doing it. My understanding is that non qualified lino's just give direction of throw ,corners goal kicks and offside decisions. As for changing his mind, he's perfectly entittled to do this provided the next phase of play hadn't started IE kick off.

 

Most qualified refs will spell it out to club lino's before the game.

 

I used to get upset with useless refs but as I got older learnt that its just not worth it. Towards the end i used to get quite friendly with the refs and found things went my way a bit more. If you treat them as blokes who love the game as much as you,are doing their best and will **** up as much as you do, you'll be surprised how many 50/50 go your way. I used to praise them, things like "good half ref" and " you were right" even if it was against me. I also used to give it the old "nice to see you again" when going up for the coin flip. Basically , creep round them. Come the big decision , and he's on your side. Most are petty and will give decisions against the team that argues with them. I found if they thought I was reasonable, then started acting unreasonably, then they thought I must of had a point.

 

Geoff Boycott once said that there were batsmen who used to walk a lot before being given out. The umpires used to know that they walked and respected them for it. One day they would be on a big score, get an edge and not walk. The umpire would think that they couldn't be out because they hadn't walked, so gave them not out. Its the same principle. There's maybe only one or two big decisions that will effect the result, what you need is to get the guy on your side by not arguing about the ones that don't matter. My son once got sent off for arguing over a throw in, suspended and fined over a stupid throw in.......

[Whitey Grandad]

Quite right, Lord D. Didn't Brian Clough have a similar principle at the City Ground?

[Danbert]

You were lucky someone was running the line. When I used to play park football we sometimes just had a referee. This was a thankless job and running the lining and calling 'offsides' was equally thankless.

I did referee a few times but did not enjoy it, people call you all sorts of names and you are never right !

 

Well, you never are right are you...

[Saint Stimp]

Is this the league you play in? http://www.leaguewebsite.co.uk/scfl/Divisions

[westmidlandsaint]

As a former local league ref in my younger days I am of the opinion that it is down to the ref how much help he asks his assistants/linesman for however it is standard at lower leagues for the refs to tell the linesman before the game that they just want help with offside, throw in's and corners. This is what I certainly always told my linesman and I always found it hard consulting the linesman due to their biased nature.

 

I actually was linesman for my mates team the other month where I gave a goal offside due to interference the player who was offside stood in front of the keeper obstructing him from claiming the cross and a player came from an onside position to score. The ref came over and asked why I'd given it offside I explained and he said ........ I'm only including offsides for players who touch the ball and he gave the goal, I informed him he couldn't just change the rules, too which he replied I can and I have.

[SaintNeil90]

You play grass roots football and are lucky to even get a qualified referee.

 

It has always been a difficult one at this level. There is no written rules on the subject as far as I know.

 

When I was refereeing that level I used to make all the decisions myself and only asked the assistant to do throws/corners/goalkicks/offside but that was because it was logical and avoided this type of situation (to an extent). It didnt stop any bias from assistants.

 

At the end of the day, the referee is human, he is trying to do what is right. The same as you are a footballer who is trying to play well but will be **** sometimes.

[lloydie]

Says the man who got so upset about a poor decision in what is basically a semi-organised kick about that he came on Saintsweb and posted it on the main forum. Nice work, princess.

 

This. Calling people muppets, but posting on the wrong board and its not even a decent standard of footy to get bothered about! If you dont get paid, it isnt worth arguing about.

[tajjuk]

All the FA refs we get tell the 'linesmen' before the game that they just do offsides and throw ins. Not has a ref yet that has said different and I have been told off for flagging for fouls etc.

[Whitey Grandad]

As a former local league ref in my younger days I am of the opinion that it is down to the ref how much help he asks his assistants/linesman for however it is standard at lower leagues for the refs to tell the linesman before the game that they just want help with offside, throw in's and corners. This is what I certainly always told my linesman and I always found it hard consulting the linesman due to their biased nature.

 

I actually was linesman for my mates team the other month where I gave a goal offside due to interference the player who was offside stood in front of the keeper obstructing him from claiming the cross and a player came from an onside position to score. The ref came over and asked why I'd given it offside I explained and he said ........ I'm only including offsides for players who touch the ball and he gave the goal, I informed him he couldn't just change the rules, too which he replied I can and I have.

 

The ref was right. And you were right to flag. The linesman is best placed to say if a player is in an offside position, the referee to say if this player is interfering. FIFA keep[ mucking about with the definition of interfering which often goes against traditional thinking. That's why you had a flag but the referee had a whistle.

 

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/27/interpretation_law11_en.pdf

 

“interfering with an opponent” means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent

Edited 18 February, 2013 by Whitey Grandad

[Miltonroader07]

As an ex Class Two referee I would say that he was stupid to disallow the goal, club linesmen cheat, when they are players as well they cheat more, The club linesman indicates in and out of play and offside, the latter the ref can agree with or not if he/she is positioned well, ie running an S.