The Project.

[Wes Tender]

Champions League is a target, as is winning the League. whether it's achievable or not - well, I guess we'll find out over the coming years. Saying it is impossible is simply not true. Anything can and does happen, albeit infrequently.

Do you think Wimbledon supporters thought hey would ever play in the top division of the English league when they were a non-league team? Do you think Blackburn really thought they could win the league before Jack Walker invested his millions?

Man City and Chelsea could go bust or lose their backing. Man Utd could lose their players in a plane crash (what? impossible...). Liverpool could employ a succession of shyte managers...oh wait, that DID happen...

If you were a Man City fan in the 89th minute of the last league game of last season, would you REALLY have bet your house on them winning the League?

 

Some things happen slowly, some happen in almost an instant, but never give up the dream

 

I'm just enjoying the ride and praying that we really do have the funds to do what we are currently doing and that we're never, ever, going to be a Poopey

These are exactly my thoughts. I've seen enough changes in English football during my lifetime to acknowledge that nothing is impossible, as improbable as it might seem currently. I remember Liverpool before Shankly when they were nowhere and United before Busby, Leeds before Revie, Forest and Derby pre-Clough.

 

If anybody dares to suggest that one day we might find ourselves towards the top of the division as a result of the ambition of Cortese, backed by the Liebherr money, some with closed minds will try and ridicule you. A word of advice to anybody with an open mind trying to convince others of the possibility of success in that endeavour; don't use analogies of other historical events that were once deemed to be impossible. That will only go right over their heads and then they'll trawl it up as a stick to beat you with. It's really quite puerile, the sort of thing that they should have left behind in the playground.

[Wes Tender]

It is. But hey, man walked on the moon so why can't we get champion league next season. Or even win the league..?

 

How timely! I just posted without reading this from you

 

My comment is particularly fitting for you.

 

....don't use analogies of other historical events that were once deemed to be impossible. That will only go right over their heads and then they'll trawl it up as a stick to beat you with. It's really quite puerile, the sort of thing that they should have left behind in the playground.

 

One really has to worry for the security of the country if people of such juvenile immaturity are defending the realm.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Yeah I mean we could have lent them SDR to pull back a striker & get booked once he got past him instead of Rafael.

At least SDR might have made more of his shooting chance from a corner in the 1st half

 

BUT, seriously what a cracking CF goal that was (were you watching SRL) and from a winger at that. Hate Ronaldo but.......

 

Errrrm, Ronaldo isn't really a winger though.

 

He averages over a goal a game for Real, which is ridiculous seeing as he has played over 175 games for them.

 

Unreal player, like him or not, you cannot deny the guy's quality. He definitely isn't a winger though.

[ericb]

I'd be willing to put a tidy sum on the fact that we'll be sold in the next two years, especially given that i know for a fact Cortese has already met buyers and has told people he won't be here in two years.

[farawaysaint]

I'd be willing to put a tidy sum on the fact that we'll be sold in the next two years, especially given that i know for a fact Cortese has already met buyers and has told people he won't be here in two years.

 

[Saint_clark]

I'd be willing to put a tidy sum on the fact that we'll be sold in the next two years, especially given that i know for a fact Cortese has already met buyers and has told people he won't be here in two years.

 

You know for a fact, huh? But I guess that you are unable to name your sources, yadda yadda yadda...

[RonManager]

It is. But hey, man walked on the moon so why can't we get champion league next season. Or even win the league..?

 

[Turkish]

I'd be willing to put a tidy sum on the fact that we'll be sold in the next two years, especially given that i know for a fact Cortese has already met buyers and has told people he won't be here in two years.

 

You cant say things like that on here fella, the CoC will be in uproar.

[Turkish]

These are exactly my thoughts. I've seen enough changes in English football during my lifetime to acknowledge that nothing is impossible, as improbable as it might seem currently. I remember Liverpool before Shankly when they were nowhere and United before Busby, Leeds before Revie, Forest and Derby pre-Clough.

 

If anybody dares to suggest that one day we might find ourselves towards the top of the division as a result of the ambition of Cortese, backed by the Liebherr money, some with closed minds will try and ridicule you. A word of advice to anybody with an open mind trying to convince others of the possibility of success in that endeavour; don't use analogies of other historical events that were once deemed to be impossible. That will only go right over their heads and then they'll trawl it up as a stick to beat you with. It's really quite puerile, the sort of thing that they should have left behind in the playground.

 

Glad to see you've finally realised how utterly ridiculous your claims that Saints can make the champions league because they said man would never climb Everest were.

Also glad to see you've reigned yourself in and your ambitions are now finiding ourselves towards the top of the division and not on an unstoppable march to the champions league. i was starting to lose hope with your les but clearly there is some sane chromosones left in there somewhere.

[Crazy Diamond]

It's all talk, ultimately. I'm not saying it's impossible for us ever to achieve a European spot via the league but do I expect it anytime soon? No, I really don't.

 

You look at Forest with their Kuwaiti owners who declared they wanted to 'add another star above the Nottingham Forest badge' - by which they mean win a third European trophy. It's cringeworthy. They're going to do well to get in the Premier League and stay there, and if they do it will be an eternity before they get anywhere close to a European place, let alone get all the way to the Champions League, through the group stages, past the knock-out rounds and into the final, and then win it.

 

Look at Man City - they've thrown how much at that club? They can't get beyond the group stages.

[Saint Scott]

So at the very beginning NA and NC spoke about a project and this word has been mentioned randomly ever since. MP even mentioned the ‘Project’ at his unveiling.

 

I was wondering what this project was in its current form?

 

League Ones project was to be in the Premiership within 5 years …….. Tick.

 

Projects change and evolve with time and enviroment so the Project and its conception at the beginning when ML and NC came on the scene would be very different to the one we have now. Does anyone know what this ‘Project’ is currently?

 

I thought the '5 Year Project' was to be playing in Europe by the end of the fifth year?

 

Although we are miraculously ahead of schedule with two successive promotions I cant see it happening.

 

That being said if we stay up and spend like we did this summer its possible. If not we can always hope to qualify through the Fair Play table.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Most of you lot are so short-sighted it's untrue. The plans for this club are massive - really massive - in 10 years time we will be undistinguishable from the club we were at the foot of L1. Sit back and be smug in the knowledge that you've been a part of the climb.

[Crazy Diamond]

Most of you lot are so short-sighted it's untrue. The plans for this club are massive - really massive - in 10 years time we will be undistinguishable from the club we were at the foot of L1. Sit back and be smug in the knowledge that you've been a part of the climb.

 

From my point of view it's not so much being short-sighted as cautious.

 

I dare say for a while we all thought the Skates would be the dominant force on the south coast for decades, but it changed very, very quickly. I don't think there's anything to suggest that we won't ever encounter money problems and just as quickly find ourselves in trouble. If the Liebherrs withdraw their support, then where are we?

[Frank's cousin]

You cant say things like that on here fella, the CoC will be in uproar.

 

It may come as a surprise to the Coc Suckers, that I would not be surprized if we were sold within 2-3 years.. but you can bet that if that is the case it would be at a point when we are woth the maximum possible to NC and the Liebherrs and that would mean being a side capabke of being in the top 6 or better...

[Frank's cousin]

From my point of view it's not so much being short-sighted as cautious.

 

I dare say for a while we all thought the Skates would be the dominant force on the south coast for decades, but it changed very, very quickly. I don't think there's anything to suggest that we won't ever encounter money problems and just as quickly find ourselves in trouble. If the Liebherrs withdraw their support, then where are we?

 

Thats the whole point though - things can change very quickly - with money and when it dries up, unless there is sustainable sponsorship at a much higher level etc. The best guess is that we have a FINITE amount that may or not be invested to get us to the point where the infrastructure ensures better sustainability and the club as a 'brand' is worth more from a sponsorship and commercial perspective.

 

Being the banker he is, NC will appreciate that this is a calculated risk - and that money will need to be invested if the club is ever to be sold for a maximum return. I dont have any worries about what will ahppen to the club whilst Cortese is here - he wants to be seen as the person who took us to new heights.... I would be more concerned about what comes next.... leveraged buyouts, and all that crap that goes with it is a possibility....and there are some who still welcome the day NC leaves... mental. They would do well to remember the old adage 'careful what you wish for'

[Crazy Diamond]

Thats the whole point though - things can change very quickly - with money and when it dries up, unless there is sustainable sponsorship at a much higher level etc. The best guess is that we have a FINITE amount that may or not be invested to get us to the point where the infrastructure ensures better sustainability and the club as a 'brand' is worth more from a sponsorship and commercial perspective.

 

Being the banker he is, NC will appreciate that this is a calculated risk - and that money will need to be invested if the club is ever to be sold for a maximum return. I dont have any worries about what will ahppen to the club whilst Cortese is here - he wants to be seen as the person who took us to new heights.... I would be more concerned about what comes next.... leveraged buyouts, and all that crap that goes with it is a possibility....and there are some who still welcome the day NC leaves... mental. They would do well to remember the old adage 'careful what you wish for'

 

Without doubt there is a lot of work going on to build the brand. I suspect a lot has been invested in a top sponsorship and commercial team.

[rooney]

I guess NC fell into Saints FC because of Markus. We do not know if football has got to him like it did Markus as we do not know much about him. I do not think the Leibherr family are all that interested as NC always seems to be on his own at matches. On this basis, a sale is a distinct possibility but that may be 2 or 3 years away yet. In the meantime, in my view, a large part of the Project will be developing top class players via the Academy,as this comes out in inteviews very regularly. We are also spending a fortune at Staplewood for the now and the future.

[Wes Tender]

From my point of view it's not so much being short-sighted as cautious.

 

I dare say for a while we all thought the Skates would be the dominant force on the south coast for decades, but it changed very, very quickly. I don't think there's anything to suggest that we won't ever encounter money problems and just as quickly find ourselves in trouble. If the Liebherrs withdraw their support, then where are we?

 

We all thought? I never for a moment thought that the spending far beyond their means would result in anything other than their financial meltdown. It was only a matter of time. Likewise I was always confident that what we had in terms of our infrastructure, the stadium, training ground, academy, comparatively low debt, etc, would make us a decent prospect for somebody to take an investment punt on us.

 

One can only hope that if Cortese does seek to sell us, it will be as an even more investable commodity, attractive to somebody else with as much ambition to take us further and the money to achieve it.

[CB Fry]

Most of you lot are so short-sighted it's untrue. The plans for this club are massive - really massive - in 10 years time we will be undistinguishable from the club we were at the foot of L1. Sit back and be smug in the knowledge that you've been a part of the climb.

 

 

 

The old "you're all short sighted" routine. Nice to see that wheeled out.

[CB Fry]

These are exactly my thoughts. I've seen enough changes in English football during my lifetime to acknowledge that nothing is impossible, as improbable as it might seem currently. I remember Liverpool before Shankly when they were nowhere and United before Busby, Leeds before Revie, Forest and Derby pre-Clough.

 

If anybody dares to suggest that one day we might find ourselves towards the top of the division as a result of the ambition of Cortese, backed by the Liebherr money, some with closed minds will try and ridicule you. A word of advice to anybody with an open mind trying to convince others of the possibility of success in that endeavour; don't use analogies of other historical events that were once deemed to be impossible. That will only go right over their heads and then they'll trawl it up as a stick to beat you with. It's really quite puerile, the sort of thing that they should have left behind in the playground.

 

....and the old "we've got open minds" routine.

 

Seriously, how much of an "open mind" do you need to believe in a football club aspiring for the Champions League? The answer is not much of an open mind. It really, really isn't a difficult thing to envisage chaps, so stop congratulating yourselves. Laughable.

 

 

PS. I have some historical events which may be relevent for you.

 

Manchester bidding for the 2000 and 1996 Olympics.

 

Betamax becoming the dominant Video format.

 

Leeds United bidding for English and European Football dominance in the 2000s.

Edited 14 February, 2013 by CB Fry

[Fowllyd]

Most of you lot are so short-sighted it's untrue. The plans for this club are massive - really massive - in 10 years time we will be undistinguishable from the club we were at the foot of L1. Sit back and be smug in the knowledge that you've been a part of the climb.

 

I really don't think that's the word you meant to use there...

[Bearsy]

PS. I have some historical events which may be relevent for you.

 

Manchester bidding for the 2000 and 1996 Olympics.

 

Betamax becoming the dominant Video format.

 

Leeds United bidding for English and European Football dominance in the 2000s.

 

More historical events:

Blackburn to win Premier League

Qatar bidding to host World Cup

Greece to win Euro 2004

[Ohio Saint]

Life is full of planners, dreamers and sneerers.

 

Cortese is unquestionably in the first group - with the balls, brains and probably the funding to back it up.

 

I'm happy enough to sit in the second group because we've already come a hell of a long way and, based on that and various signals (such as who we've signed and might be interested in signing), there's nothing wrong with dreaming when it comes to footy. Without dreams, supporting a team is rather pointless, isn't it?

 

I just thank God I'm not in the third group; what a sad and hollow existence that must be.

 

This post sums it up for me too.

 

Shame that the last line opened it up for the trolls.

[CB Fry]

More historical events:

Blackburn to win Premier League

Qatar bidding to host World Cup

Greece to win Euro 2004

 

 

England to win every Euro and WC since 1966.

Sinclair C5

ITV Digital

Hague for PM 2001

Apollo 13

[Bearsy]

I haven't got any more! I'm also not sure what game we is playing.

 

I did get a 20p piece down the front of girls cleavage from 10 yards this morning tho, if that counts!

[CB Fry]

I haven't got any more! I'm also not sure what game we is playing.

 

I did get a 20p piece down the front of girls cleavage from 10 yards this morning tho, if that counts!

 

Good skills re boobage.

 

Never mind Bear. You're just another victim of my supreme debating abilities. I'm like a god at it.

[Colinjb]

England to win every Euro and WC since 1966.

Sinclair C5

ITV Digital

Hague for PM 2001

Apollo 13

 

'An end to boom and bust!'

 

- Gordon Brown.

[Turkish]

'An end to boom and bust!'

 

- Gordon Brown.

 

 

"Garforth Town will be a premier league club within 20 years." Simon Clifford 2003.

[aintforever]

I'd be willing to put a tidy sum on the fact that we'll be sold in the next two years, especially given that i know for a fact Cortese has already met buyers and has told people he won't be here in two years.

 

I would say this is the most likely scenario.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the next owners are just as rich as the current ones though so it's not worth any of the cult peeing their pants over it. Cortese clearly has good contacts, if he builds the Southampton brand up enough the club will be sold for a good price.

[qwertySFC]

Of course NC has been speaking to other people who may be interested, after all he was quoted some where saying if The Liebherr family wanted to walk away after the passing of Markus he was aware of backers who would want to be part of the project.

 

Now that all of Mali groups are being wound up / closed - one former employee of Mali said it was like the chicken lost it's egg after Markus passing - these were his ideas, motivations so where does this leave the Estate of Markus now.

 

I for one moment do not believe that SFC is going to be sold to anyone, what would NC do ? He has been intrusted with the business of Markus by the family and articles in the Swiss and German business sections seem to be aware that the fire has gone from Mali Group - their is no mention of the same fate for SFC

 

The fact that NC is now registered living in the UK full time just says to me - he is here for the long run - but just my opinion.

[Colinjb]

"Garforth Town will be a premier league club within 20 years." Simon Clifford 2003.

 

"An African team will win the world cup by year 2000."

 

Pele.

[qwertySFC]

I would say this is the most likely scenario.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the next owners are just as rich as the current ones though so it's not worth any of the cult peeing their pants over it. Cortese clearly has good contacts, if he builds the Southampton brand up enough the club will be sold for a good price.

 

But - that has never been the style of the Leibherr family - it's always been about long term investment and a legacy left for future family generations

[aintforever]

But - that has never been the style of the Leibherr family - it's always been about long term investment and a legacy left for future family generations

 

I don't think buying football clubs has been the style of the Leibherr family. One thing they ARE fond of is making money, and you don't do that by trying to bankroll some football team into the CL, that's probably the best way of losing a few hundred million.

[qwertySFC]

I don't think buying football clubs has been the style of the Leibherr family. One thing they ARE fond of is making money, and you don't do that by trying to bankroll some football team into the CL, that's probably the best way of losing a few hundred million.

 

Its about the long term - hence why the debt has been transferred into equity - the club is debt free , £30m is peanuts to the worth of the Mali Group ( Markus Estate) - The Mali group were different to the main Liebherr family business - quite diverse in their projects around the world - it really is not about the money - just read the foreign press business sections and you get a different perspective about the background to why the Mali Group is virtually closed down, not sold off , not transferred to a family member but just closed down very quietly - IF it was all about the money and making more money as you suggest they could easily sold the Mali Group of companies for millions and millions - even the patterns owned by Markus , and they alone are worth millions have not been sold - so if they wanted more money why are they all not up for sale ?

[krissyboy31]

"Garforth Town will be a premier league club within 20 years." Simon Clifford 2003.

 

I seem to remember when Graham Westley (today sacked by PNE) became owner/manager of Farnborough Town, he said something similar.

[Graffito]

"Garforth Town will be a premier league club within 20 years." Simon Clifford 2003.

 

There's still time.

[qwertySFC]

Plus here is snippet from Swiss newspapers - Words from the man himself - after reading this can you see NC going against his wishes and sale up ?

 

I quote " Markus Liebherr hoped such an outcome. He had also confided saying: "Southampton must regain its place among the elite of English football, but not too fast." In 2009, the challenge seemed crazy, even utopian, as the club seemed run in vain after a more or less glorious (winner of the Cup in 1976). Indeed, the Saints, as they are nicknamed, had been demoted to the third division due to the judicial supervision of the company owner. The cause: serious financial difficulties. Situation mainly due to the construction of the new 32,000-seat stadium opened in 2001 and too often filled after relegation to the second division (2005).

[Colinjb]

There's still time.

 

They are bottom of their league and need 7 straight promotions from the one they are in, in 10 seasons.

 

Relegation and they will need 8 from 9 seasons.

 

If it happens I will buy every SaintsWeb member a pint.

[david in sweden]

THE PROJECT ?

 

a quick glance in an Italian / English dictionary may give you a hint...choose another synonym.

 

doesn't translate so well, but it's positive.

[Turkish]

They are bottom of their league and need 7 straight promotions from the one they are in, in 10 seasons.

 

Relegation and they will need 8 from 9 seasons.

 

If it happens I will buy every SaintsWeb member a pint.

 

They did say man would never walk on the moon..........

[qwertySFC]

The turnover Liebherr Group increased by 10% ( 2012) Liebherr Group recorded a turnover of 8.33 bn (€ 10 bn francs) in 2011. The increase was 9.8% compared to 2010 - I'm sure they are all worried by the £30m they invested

[Colinjb]

They did say man would never walk on the moon..........

 

And that Saints would never play in the champions' league!

[Colinjb]

The turnover Liebherr Group increased by 10% ( 2012) Liebherr Group recorded a turnover of 8.33 bn (€ 10 bn francs) in 2011. The increase was 9.8% compared to 2010 - I'm sure they are all worried by the £30m they invested

 

Wrong siblings, wrong company. Check the 'Mali Group.'

[qwertySFC]

I was responding to an earlier quote on the board - and if you read my post about The Mali Group you could see the connection

[Colinjb]

I was responding to an earlier quote on the board - and if you read my post about The Mali Group you could see the connection

 

I see.

 

Odd state of affairs if they have just seemingly wound down without sales of intellectual property or manufacturing facilities/contracts.

 

Unless as implied they have all been absorbed by the remainder of the Liebherr family.

[Dalek2003]

Project my arse !

 

Lets just try and stay in the Premiership....that is as much as we can reasonably hope for and if we do go down, 'yoyo' between the Premier and NPC !

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Football fans generally hate the word 'project' as it takes the emotion out of the plan. As supporters we're all heavily emotionally involved so the thought of someone involved in our club to not be the same doesn't sit well, but in reality unless the ownership, staff, and players are supporters I wouldn't expect them to be as emotionally involved on anything beyond a professional level with respect to how they do their job.

 

For me the original 5 year plan was quite clear - I've always considered it to be:

1. Back in the Premier League

2. For the Academy to provide as many players for the first team as the transfer market

3. For the club to be able to sustain itself

 

Since the death of Markus Liebherr and subsequent progression in the past 3 years I think the goals have changed a little. For one I think the Liebherr estate aren't too bothered about the club but will respect the wishes of Markus and will support it to any original agreement - but that is not to say that if an opportunity arose to sell they wouldn't take it (no inside news to base that on, just a hunch).

 

Cortese is the interesting piece in all this. I suspect he is far more ambitious than when he arrived in 2009. He has publicly acknowledged that he has been taken aback a bit by how emotional football fans are in this country and whilst I still think he treats the club as a business / company in how he runs it and makes decisions, I think he wants to take the club further than previously stated and we saw signs of it from the Sky Sports News interview. Talk of the Top 6, keeping important players at the club, and establishing the Southampton brand (whatever that may be).

 

I don't think it is realistically attainable in the near future - I would hope he knows that, but I never thought he'd be here beyond the 5 years so it will be interesting to see what the club does in the summer if we stay up with respect to our level of activity in the transfer market and player departures. I think he has caught the bug in some respects and wants to see his vision delivered over and beyond initial targets. Whether he does that through financial support from the owners or with the clubs own finances will be the main thing for me.

[Red]

I'd be willing to put a tidy sum on the fact that we'll be sold in the next two years, especially given that i know for a fact Cortese has already met buyers and has told people he won't be here in two years.

 

How much and what odds? Serious question - make it worthwhile and I'm in - given that it's a "fact" I have all to lose so make it attractive! Naturally need an exact date (within two years) for my side and for you when the sale officially happens (within said two years).

[Turkish]

I don't know why people keep making such an effort to shoot down lofty ambitions. Whether you think it'll happen or not, no-one knows, but a lot has clearly been achieved already and it's hard to argue that the club is bigger than ever.

 

I think a non top-5 team could get 4th in the next 3 or 4 years. Things change quickly in football. We won't be spending Man City money but to be honest, Man City have wasted a huge amount of money too. Any club should be aiming high. Other clubs aren't aware of it, Saints are publicly stating it every 5 minutes, it's just an ambitious plan. As was getting 2 quick promotions. There's plenty of talent already there. If that improves as we hope, with a few additions to make it a quality squad with more depth, then who knows. A better start, turning more draws into wins etc. I mean we're a long way off right now, but the team we have right now wouldn't have started the season as we did. If already settled I'm sure we'd be around 8th now to be honest, so the improvement has already been brilliant.

 

Nothing wrong with ambition, but an idiot confuses ambition with ability.

[Saint137]

Like all good plans it is simple. Build world class academy, get to PL, stay in PL to get a share of latest TV contract, keep youth players. As FFP kicks in an TV money dries up (got to happen eventually) we're best placed to reap the rewards. Win European trophies with a squad that's 60% academy lads? Definitely possible.