UKIP candidate says Romanians are associated with crime....

[Barry Sanchez]

As I say the Unions job is to protect and better their conditions, is there anything wrong with that? Spanish practices as you call it were and are allowed to happen after negotiation with Unions, again Spanish practices could also be argued as highly derogatory and "racist" to the Spanish.

 

Typical Thatcherite speak in other words.

[Hockey_saint]

Firstly, Hypochondriac...When you write an article with the title: "UKIP candidate says Romanians are associated with crime" THAT is where the reference is and as it's been said before, it's a cheap trick. Maybe my "if they don't like it, move to another EU State" sounds a bit reverse racialist BUT they CAN...that's the point of a free roaming federalist union!

 

It's been muttered and mentioned for at least a couple of hundred years and you can call me a liberal or even a communist all you like, the ONLY way we can ensure another European civil war and millions of lives are not lost again is to come together and work closer and if that costs a few jobs.....well, so be it, we'll be better off in the long run.

 

And as Spain was mentioned, what about the over one million pensioners living in Spain? they seem to like the idea of a free roaming union.

[hypochondriac]

Firstly, Hypochondriac...When you write an article with the title: "UKIP candidate says Romanians are associated with crime" THAT is where the reference is and as it's been said before, it's a cheap trick. Maybe my "if they don't like it, move to another EU State" sounds a bit reverse racialist BUT they CAN...that's the point of a free roaming federalist union!

 

It's been muttered and mentioned for at least a couple of hundred years and you can call me a liberal or even a communist all you like, the ONLY way we can ensure another European civil war and millions of lives are not lost again is to come together and work closer and if that costs a few jobs.....well, so be it, we'll be better off in the long run.

 

And as Spain was mentioned, what about the over one million pensioners living in Spain? they seem to like the idea of a free roaming union.

 

It is the article that is wrong or more specifically the title of the article. It is completely misleading and does not tally with the content of the article. I tend to read the articles rather than just looking at headlines.

[Whitey Grandad]

As I say the Unions job is to protect and better their conditions, is there anything wrong with that? Spanish practices as you call it were and are allowed to happen after negotiation with Unions, again Spanish practices could also be argued as highly derogatory and "racist" to the Spanish.

 

Typical Thatcherite speak in other words.

 

The term 'Spanish practices' could only be considered derogatory by someone who doesn't understand its meaning. It's like objecting to 'black sheep'. As it happened, they didn't protect the jobs because they eventually disappeared. Watch 'I'm all right, Jack' to see what British industry was like.

[Barry Sanchez]

Firstly, Hypochondriac...When you write an article with the title: "UKIP candidate says Romanians are associated with crime" THAT is where the reference is and as it's been said before, it's a cheap trick. Maybe my "if they don't like it, move to another EU State" sounds a bit reverse racialist BUT they CAN...that's the point of a free roaming federalist union!

It's been muttered and mentioned for at least a couple of hundred years and you can call me a liberal or even a communist all you like, the ONLY way we can ensure another European civil war and millions of lives are not lost again is to come together and work closer and if that costs a few jobs.....well, so be it, we'll be better off in the long run.

 

And as Spain was mentioned, what about the over one million pensioners living in Spain? they seem to like the idea of a free roaming union.

 

What have one Million pensioners living in Spain got to do with anything? So its ok for people to move out of their homeland if they are unhappy is it? Thats the sort of quick fix that worries me deeply for my Country and Europe as a whole, what about actually fixing the issue of the poorer Nations and then this would actually in all probability stop mass immigration?

You seem to care little for your fellow man nor your Country, maybe you should move?

[Barry Sanchez]

The term 'Spanish practices' could only be considered derogatory by someone who doesn't understand its meaning. It's like objecting to 'black sheep'. As it happened, they didn't protect the jobs because they eventually disappeared. Watch 'I'm all right, Jack' to see what British industry was like.

 

I fuly understand what Spanish Practice means ha ha, its you simply trying to be condescending and completely failing, I dont even need to type it in and I know it will be deemed derogatory as it is, I suggest you work upon your intergtrated European policy as I dont think you would be the UK liason officer to Europe or our man on the ground...................

[Kingsland Nick]

''We are not just talking about pressure on services from immigration but also, and I have to say it, the crime associated with Romanians."

[Hockey_saint]

What have one Million pensioners living in Spain got to do with anything? So its ok for people to move out of their homeland if they are unhappy is it? Thats the sort of quick fix that worries me deeply for my Country and Europe as a whole, what about actually fixing the issue of the poorer Nations and then this would actually in all probability stop mass immigration?

You seem to care little for your fellow man nor your Country, maybe you should move?

 

No, what I'm saying is that they have the option to more to another EU state should they wish to as there are other states with jobs going...just like other EU nationals are doing. Also, it's actually not JUST pensioners over in Spain, it is in fact LOTS of UK citizens in a similar way to the Eastern europeaners here (except outwardly they are initially fiscally bringing capital into the country.).

 

And finally, as regular SFC readers of the Echo, I know we shouldn't expect anything better from the Echo, but to use cheap tactics like the Daily Mail is a bit low even for them.

[Barry Sanchez]

No, what I'm saying is that they have the option to more to another EU state should they wish to as there are other states with jobs going...just like other EU nationals are doing. Also, it's actually not JUST pensioners over in Spain, it is in fact LOTS of UK citizens in a similar way to the Eastern europeaners here (except outwardly they are initially fiscally bringing capital into the country.).

 

And finally, as regular SFC readers of the Echo, I know we shouldn't expect anything better from the Echo, but to use cheap tactics like the Daily Mail is a bit low even for them.

 

What you are doing is comparing retirees to summer climes with capital to economic migrants skilled or otherwise which is apples and oranges but always the flawed battle the pro Europeans/Open border people fling out. Next is the r word yadda yadda yah.

[Wes Tender]

i agree and only the die hard buffoons who still thinks she walks on water still support her because i expect they lined their pockets at the time.

Thatcher came to power in May 1979 after a poster campaign by Saatchi & Saatchi showing a huge line of jobless benefit claimants and in bold lettering it said "LABOUR IS'NT WORKING. That was when one million people were claiming unemployment benefit. Thatcher increased that number to 3.5 million, after selling off the countries silver (all the utility companies and a lot more besides). Workers were earning as little as £1 per hour and were forced to work 60 or more hours per week or face the sack. There was no minimum wage or working time directive during her term of office.

 

She closed down most manufacturing by having away overvalued exchange rate and increased interest rates to 17%. People were encouraged to buy their council homes and then lost them because the value of their home fell to less than the mortgage they took out when they bought it, (negative equity) and the fact this country was self sufficent in oil which was wasted by her term in office and it was only the falklands war which saved her bacon at the time for being thrown out of office.

 

You sound just like one of those spotty youths that used to sell the Socialist Worker rag in the High Street of a Saturday morning.

 

The electorate must be really gullible, eh, to vote for Thatcher solely on the strength of an advertising campaign on Unemployment? It couldn't possibly have been that they had been fed up with Wilson and then Callaghan and the Winter of discontent, Labour having to go to the IMF cap in hand to bail us out because of the financial mess that Healey got us in to. The family silver you speak of was inefficient nationalised industries, overmanned, offering dismal service and a really poor product. Labour has been back in power since Thatcher and Major. Why didn't they renationalise those industries and put "the family silver" back into public ownership?

 

As for your point about low pay, I was earning £6.50 a week in my first job at 16. How I would have loved the £1 an hour! Pay rates are only relevant in the context of what they are for in terms of the type of work and the qualifications and responsibilities it entails. Your point about the Council Houses bought by former tenants falling in value and causing negative equity is just so ludicrous, it's laughable. The whole point is that most bought at a much reduced price reflecting the fact that they had been paying rent for many years. I very much doubt whether there were very many at all that fell in value below what people paid to buy them.

[Hockey_saint]

What you are doing is comparing retirees to summer climes with capital to economic migrants skilled or otherwise which is apples and oranges but always the flawed battle the pro Europeans/Open border people fling out. Next is the r word yadda yadda yah.

 

I can promise you it is not just retirees and the Spanish are getting fairly over-run. Ultimately what does it come down to in the end? us going back to being seperate battling countries in Europe and again killing millions? This union is saving lives and attempting to bring us all together, it's here, like it or not and the thing about borders? they're like the Maginout line, they never work.

[Barry Sanchez]

Why do you compare a military failure to an economic and political one? Spain getting over run, by whom?

[Barry Sanchez]

You sound just like one of those spotty youths that used to sell the Socialist Worker rag in the High Street of a Saturday morning.

 

The electorate must be really gullible, eh, to vote for Thatcher solely on the strength of an advertising campaign on Unemployment? It couldn't possibly have been that they had been fed up with Wilson and then Callaghan and the Winter of discontent, Labour having to go to the IMF cap in hand to bail us out because of the financial mess that Healey got us in to. The family silver you speak of was inefficient nationalised industries, overmanned, offering dismal service and a really poor product. Labour has been back in power since Thatcher and Major. Why didn't they renationalise those industries and put "the family silver" back into public ownership?

 

As for your point about low pay, I was earning £6.50 a week in my first job at 16. How I would have loved the £1 an hour! Pay rates are only relevant in the context of what they are for in terms of the type of work and the qualifications and responsibilities it entails. Your point about the Council Houses bought by former tenants falling in value and causing negative equity is just so ludicrous, it's laughable. The whole point is that most bought at a much reduced price reflecting the fact that they had been paying rent for many years. I very much doubt whether there were very many at all that fell in value below what people paid to buy them.

Because the modern Labour party are about as socialist as Rupert Murdoch, Thatchers trick in one small turn was that she turned people protected by the state ie council homes into capitalists who owned houses who had mortgages to pay, they in turn sold for a huge profit and we now have a housing crisis years later, nice one Wes........

[Hockey_saint]

Why do you compare a military failure to an economic and political one? Spain getting over run, by whom?

 

Because you can contextualise ANYTHING in this world into a military analogy (plus it's the only way often that ignorant little Englanders understand) and yes, we can moan about the Poles, the Irish, the Romanians coming here over running their system but we've pretty much been doing the same for about 300 years around the globe....I'm off to NZ in sept which oddly looks a lot like here.....can't think why?

 

Also, maybe some Spanish feel their cultural identity is being destroyed by so many foreigners where they live just like us. I don't agree that it's a bad thing, I think a cultural infusion is a good thing but maybe they dont such is life.

[Wes Tender]

Because the modern Labour party are about as socialist as Rupert Murdoch, Thatchers trick in one small turn was that she turned people protected by the state ie council homes into capitalists who owned houses who had mortgages to pay, they in turn sold for a huge profit and we now have a housing crisis years later, nice one Wes........

They sold their council houses for a huge profit. So are you saying that Hockey Saint is wrong when he says that people who bought their council houses then went on to suffer negative equity? You can't both be right.

 

And this housing crisis you mention; it couldn't have anything to do with rising population and immigrant numbers, could it?

[solentstars]

You sound just like one of those spotty youths that used to sell the Socialist Worker rag in the High Street of a Saturday morning.

 

The electorate must be really gullible, eh, to vote for Thatcher solely on the strength of an advertising campaign on Unemployment? It couldn't possibly have been that they had been fed up with Wilson and then Callaghan and the Winter of discontent, Labour having to go to the IMF cap in hand to bail us out because of the financial mess that Healey got us in to. The family silver you speak of was inefficient nationalised industries, overmanned, offering dismal service and a really poor product. Labour has been back in power since Thatcher and Major. Why didn't they renationalise those industries and put "the family silver" back into public ownership?

 

As for your point about low pay, I was earning £6.50 a week in my first job at 16. How I would have loved the £1 an hour! Pay rates are only relevant in the context of what they are for in terms of the type of work and the qualifications and responsibilities it entails. Your point about the Council Houses bought by former tenants falling in value and causing negative equity is just so ludicrous, it's laughable. The whole point is that most bought at a much reduced price reflecting the fact that they had been paying rent for many years. I very much doubt whether there were very many at all that fell in value below what people paid to buy them.

oh dear another who went threw that period with rose tinted glasses..did we not have self suffiency in oil and gas and the electric and gas were not private monopoloys who are screwing us left right and centre. what about the overvalued pound which destroyed the .efficent manafacturing industrys along with those which were overmanned.the poll tax......oh i forgot it was all milk and honey and she never made mistakes . the labour party at that were unelectable with miltant tendency and marxists anti eu the and led to a split with the sdp being formed but the tories were behind the polls by a big margin .. and it the falklands war which got thatcher relected or our you disputing that not her policys...yes she did some good things but so did all prime ministers but nots hide the policy failings in her first term at the time without looking into more of the details .

 

1. firstly in the late 1970s and 1980s sterling became an important petro currency; with the production of oil in the north sea, the Pound Sterling rose rapidly. Combined with rising interest rates, sterling appreciated from £1 to $1.5 to $2.5 in 1980. This appreciation in the pound adversely affected Britain’s exports and manufacturing sector. It was in manufacturing, that the UK suffered the worst effects of the 1980-81 recession.
   
2. Secondly, controlling the money supply proved to be much more difficult than theory predicted. Despite rising interest rates and falling AD, growth in the money supply remained stubbornly high. This encouraged the government to maintain a tight fiscal and monetary policy. Inflation fell but the money supply didn’t; the link between money supply and inflation proved to be very tenuous, but by trying to reduce the money supply they reduced AD by more than was necessary.......... and just to let you know i voted for cameron at the last election and careoline nokes who i find a very good local mp and met a few times...and have never been tied to one party on ideology.
   

[Whitey Grandad]

Because the modern Labour party are about as socialist as Rupert Murdoch, Thatchers trick in one small turn was that she turned people protected by the state ie council homes into capitalists who owned houses who had mortgages to pay, they in turn sold for a huge profit and we now have a housing crisis years later, nice one Wes........

These house weren't demolished and are still being lived in. Any housing crisis is due to the huge rise in the population along with increased divorce and the expectation that the younger population have that they can move out of their parents' home and walk into accommodation.

[Wes Tender]

oh dear another who went threw that period with rose tinted glasses..did we not have self suffiency in oil and gas and the electric and gas were not private monopoloys who are screwing us left right and centre. what about the overvalued pound which destroyed the .efficent manafacturing industrys along with those which were overmanned.the poll tax......oh i forgot it was all milk and honey and she never made mistakes . the labour party at that were unelectable with miltant tendency and marxists anti eu the and led to a split with the sdp being formed but the tories were behind the polls by a big margin .. and it the falklands war which got thatcher relected or our you disputing that not her policys...yes she did some good things but so did all prime ministers but nots hide the policy failings in her first term at the time without looking into more of the details .

 

1. firstly in the late 1970s and 1980s sterling became an important petro currency; with the production of oil in the north sea, the Pound Sterling rose rapidly. Combined with rising interest rates, sterling appreciated from £1 to $1.5 to $2.5 in 1980. This appreciation in the pound adversely affected Britain’s exports and manufacturing sector. It was in manufacturing, that the UK suffered the worst effects of the 1980-81 recession.
   
2. Secondly, controlling the money supply proved to be much more difficult than theory predicted. Despite rising interest rates and falling AD, growth in the money supply remained stubbornly high. This encouraged the government to maintain a tight fiscal and monetary policy. Inflation fell but the money supply didn’t; the link between money supply and inflation proved to be very tenuous, but by trying to reduce the money supply they reduced AD by more than was necessary.......... and just to let you know i voted for cameron at the last election and careoline nokes who i find a very good local mp and met a few times...and have never been tied to one party on ideology.
   

 

Please don't try and preach to me and label me as wearing rose-tinted glasses. I lived through it; did you?

 

I am entitled to draw my own conclusions about how things were, with some perspective about how they had been through Harold Wilson's and Callaghan's terms in power too. Were you of an age to understand what that was like, or are your opinions only formed by what you were taught or what you read about it?

[Barry Sanchez]

Because you can contextualise ANYTHING in this world into a military analogy (plus it's the only way often that ignorant little Englanders understand) and yes, we can moan about the Poles, the Irish, the Romanians coming here over running their system but we've pretty much been doing the same for about 300 years around the globe....I'm off to NZ in sept which oddly looks a lot like here.....can't think why?

 

Also, maybe some Spanish feel their cultural identity is being destroyed by so many foreigners where they live just like us. I don't agree that it's a bad thing, I think a cultural infusion is a good thing but maybe they dont such is life.

 

Having lived in New Zealand for 3 years I suggest you research the landscape of the Country, most of it looks nothing like the UK. The little Englander jibe makes me laugh as there are far more right wing parties in the ever ooh soo right minded Europeon Countries than you could throw a stick at, Spain, France and the Netherlands for a start, maybe its their outfits that makes them get away with it?

[Barry Sanchez]

These house weren't demolished and are still being lived in. Any housing crisis is due to the huge rise in the population along with increased divorce and the expectation that the younger population have that they can move out of their parents' home and walk into accommodation.

 

Lived in when they should be social housing, there is so little bousing for social needs, throwing in divorce is pretty low as well as quote divorce rates push up the need for social housing?

[Barry Sanchez]

They sold their council houses for a huge profit. So are you saying that Hockey Saint is wrong when he says that people who bought their council houses then went on to suffer negative equity? You can't both be right.

 

And this housing crisis you mention; it couldn't have anything to do with rising population and immigrant numbers, could it?

If you bought a house in the 80's I dont think you would be suffering from negative equity 25 years later, do you?

[Barry Sanchez]

Because you can contextualise ANYTHING in this world into a military analogy (plus it's the only way often that ignorant little Englanders understand) and yes, we can moan about the Poles, the Irish, the Romanians coming here over running their system but we've pretty much been doing the same for about 300 years around the globe....I'm off to NZ in sept which oddly looks a lot like here.....can't think why?

 

Also, maybe some Spanish feel their cultural identity is being destroyed by so many foreigners where they live just like us. I don't agreements that it's a bad thing, I think a cultural infusion is a good thing but maybe they dont such is life.

Cultural infusion is a great thing who said it was not, what we are seeing is not cultural infusion though is it, economic migrancy is not abour fusion, its about money, you fail to understand this, ask a Maori about this you'll love the answer, or an aboriginal.

[Wes Tender]

Lived in when they should be social housing, there is so little bousing for social needs, throwing in divorce is pretty low as well as quote divorce rates push up the need for social housing?

 

Whitey mentioned three reasons for the increase in demand for housing. You've only responded to one of them.

In your response to my point replying to Hockey Saint, then yes, of course there has been a substantial increase in the value of properties, but what the hell have prices over a quarter of a century got to do with anything? Hockey Saint was commenting on negative equity during Thatcher's term in government, as was I. You two are all over the place in your comments.

[Hockey_saint]

Having lived in New Zealand for 3 years I suggest you research the landscape of the Country, most of it looks nothing like the UK. The little Englander jibe makes me laugh as there are far more right wing parties in the ever ooh soo right minded Europeon Countries than you could throw a stick at, Spain, France and the Netherlands for a start, maybe its their outfits that makes them get away with it?

 

Firstly, I have also been to New Zealand several times before also and whilst, you are correct, there are a lot of parts that don't look anything like the UK, there are also many parts where you cannot tell the difference and what's that down to? British people setting up home and turning it into a "little Britain" (Although I see those parts a bit more like Wales).

 

I also agree with you that it's not been very nice to say the least for the Maori and I don't condone the things we did to remove them of their land but don't make the mistake of thinking that I'd thrown this example in without at least have previously being there.

 

Finally yes, there are loads of right wing parties in Europe and Eastern europe but why can't we be better than that? show them the way as it were?

[Barry Sanchez]

Firstly, I have also been to New Zealand several times before also and whilst, you are correct, there are a lot of parts that don't look anything like the UK, there are also many parts where you cannot tell the difference and what's that down to? British people setting up home and turning it into a "little Britain" (Although I see those parts a bit more like Wales).

 

I also agree with you that it's not been very nice to say the least for the Maori and I don't condone the things we did to remove them of their land but don't make the mistake of thinking that I'd thrown this example in without at least have previously being there.

 

Finally yes, there are loads of right wing parties in Europe and Eastern europe but why can't we be better than that? show them the way as it were?

 

What little Englanders? Us you mean better than the great continental Europeans? But you conveniently just ignore the answer of cohesion and simply say it was unfortunate for the Maori, there are parts of the US that look like parts of England, but what has that got to do with anything?

[cambsaint]

Don't blame the Unions for the woes in British industry.

In many respects it was a reaction to the officer class in WW2. The poor bloody infantry saw the privileges and power they had and tried to make sure that they didn't continue in peacetime. There were a lot of problems after VE day that were brushed under the carpet.

management was woeful, no trained managers -mainly a mixture of ex officers from WW2 and family and friends; who managed to cock everything up.

Watch the film about women in Dagenham and ask yourself did they have a legitimate case.

 

Think on this -One of the most talented engineers in Britain - Issigonis designed the Mini and 1100.

BL never made any money out of the Mini-hopeless mis-management -not the workers and VW copied the 1100

ironed out the faults and produced the Golf.

What did BL do- produced the Allegro-only remembered for a square steering wheel and its awfulness.

 

Of course there were lefties and commies in the Unions but the vast majority of members just wanted a fair wage and respect.

 

As for Thatcher- why didn't she send Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire mounted police into The City of London to baton charge the thieving

bankers who ruined the country so effectively over the next three decades.

Instead she destroyed industry, brought about big bang in the financial industry which led directly to the recent Banking crisis, although aided and abetted by B Liar.

 

What did she do with the oil billions-wasted them on Social Security payments on the workers she had made unemployed by closing industry down too quickly and

unbalancing the economy in favour of service industries.

She couldn't even support those high-tech industries which might have provided high-tech jobs.

 

NB Ex Army Officers weren't all bad managers- I believe that VW in post-war Germany was saved by a British Officer!

[Thedelldays]

Because you can contextualise ANYTHING in this world into a military analogy (plus it's the only way often that ignorant little Englanders understand) and yes, we can moan about the Poles, the Irish, the Romanians coming here over running their system but we've pretty much been doing the same for about 300 years around the globe....I'm off to NZ in sept which oddly looks a lot like here.....can't think why?

 

Also, maybe some Spanish feel their cultural identity is being destroyed by so many foreigners where they live just like us. I don't agree that it's a bad thing, I think a cultural infusion is a good thing but maybe they dont such is life.

that is up to spain if they allow people in...we should not, we cant afford it and the NHS (for example) cant cope...

[Barry Sanchez]

Don't blame the Unions for the woes in British industry.

In many respects it was a reaction to the officer class in WW2. The poor bloody infantry saw the privileges and power they had and tried to make sure that they didn't continue in peacetime. There were a lot of problems after VE day that were brushed under the carpet.

management was woeful, no trained managers -mainly a mixture of ex officers from WW2 and family and friends; who managed to cock everything up.

Watch the film about women in Dagenham and ask yourself did they have a legitimate case.

 

Think on this -One of the most talented engineers in Britain - Issigonis designed the Mini and 1100.

BL never made any money out of the Mini-hopeless mis-management -not the workers and VW copied the 1100

ironed out the faults and produced the Golf.

What did BL do- produced the Allegro-only remembered for a square steering wheel and its awfulness.

 

Of course there were lefties and commies in the Unions but the vast majority of members just wanted a fair wage and respect.

 

As for Thatcher- why didn't she send Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire mounted police into The City of London to baton charge the thieving

bankers who ruined the country so effectively over the next three decades.

Instead she destroyed industry, brought about big bang in the financial industry which led directly to the recent Banking crisis, although aided and abetted by B Liar.

 

What did she do with the oil billions-wasted them on Social Security payments on the workers she had made unemployed by closing industry down too quickly and

unbalancing the economy in favour of service industries.

She couldn't even support those high-tech industries which might have provided high-tech jobs.

 

 

Superb post, the unions like anywhere have loons and crazies, most people in them though believe in the principle of union and solidarity not reactionary striking and tools down at the first opportunity, we cant anyway, Thatcher took that away from us, the pro Europeans section who also dislike the Unions would hate actually living in Europe as their Unions are very militant, they simpy dont have a clue.

 

NB Ex Army Officers weren't all bad managers- I believe that VW in post-war Germany was saved by a British Officer!

 

Don't blame the Unions for the woes in British industry.

In many respects it was a reaction to the officer class in WW2. The poor bloody infantry saw the privileges and power they had and tried to make sure that they didn't continue in peacetime. There were a lot of problems after VE day that were brushed under the carpet.

management was woeful, no trained managers -mainly a mixture of ex officers from WW2 and family and friends; who managed to cock everything up.

Watch the film about women in Dagenham and ask yourself did they have a legitimate case.

 

Think on this -One of the most talented engineers in Britain - Issigonis designed the Mini and 1100.

BL never made any money out of the Mini-hopeless mis-management -not the workers and VW copied the 1100

ironed out the faults and produced the Golf.

What did BL do- produced the Allegro-only remembered for a square steering wheel and its awfulness.

 

Of course there were lefties and commies in the Unions but the vast majority of members just wanted a fair wage and respect.

 

As for Thatcher- why didn't she send Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire mounted police into The City of London to baton charge the thieving

bankers who ruined the country so effectively over the next three decades.

Instead she destroyed industry, brought about big bang in the financial industry which led directly to the recent Banking crisis, although aided and abetted by B Liar.

 

What did she do with the oil billions-wasted them on Social Security payments on the workers she had made unemployed by closing industry down too quickly and

unbalancing the economy in favour of service industries.

She couldn't even support those high-tech industries which might have provided high-tech jobs.

 

 

Superb post, the unions like anywhere have loons and crazies, most people in them though believe in the principle of union and solidarity not reactionary striking and tools down at the first opportunity, we cant anyway, Thatcher took that away from us, the pro Europeans section who also dislike the Unions would hate actually living in Europe as their Unions are very militant, they simpy dont have a clue.

 

NB Ex Army Officers weren't all bad managers- I believe that VW in post-war Germany was saved by a British Officer!

Don't blame the Unions for the woes in British industry.

In many respects it was a reaction to the officer class in WW2. The poor bloody infantry saw the privileges and power they had and tried to make sure that they didn't continue in peacetime. There were a lot of problems after VE day that were brushed under the carpet.

management was woeful, no trained managers -mainly a mixture of ex officers from WW2 and family and friends; who managed to cock everything up.

Watch the film about women in Dagenham and ask yourself did they have a legitimate case.

 

Think on this -One of the most talented engineers in Britain - Issigonis designed the Mini and 1100.

BL never made any money out of the Mini-hopeless mis-management -not the workers and VW copied the 1100

ironed out the faults and produced the Golf.

What did BL do- produced the Allegro-only remembered for a square steering wheel and its awfulness.

 

Of course there were lefties and commies in the Unions but the vast majority of members just wanted a fair wage and respect.

 

As for Thatcher- why didn't she send Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire mounted police into The City of London to baton charge the thieving

bankers who ruined the country so effectively over the next three decades.

Instead she destroyed industry, brought about big bang in the financial industry which led directly to the recent Banking crisis, although aided and abetted by B Liar.

 

What did she do with the oil billions-wasted them on Social Security payments on the workers she had made unemployed by closing industry down too quickly and

unbalancing the economy in favour of service industries.

She couldn't even support those high-tech industries which might have provided high-tech jobs.

 

 

Superb post, the unions like anywhere have loons and crazies, most people in them though believe in the principle of union and solidarity not reactionary striking and tools down at the first opportunity, we cant anyway, Thatcher took that away from us, the pro Europeans section who also dislike the Unions would hate actually living in Europe as their Unions are very militant, they simpy dont have a clue.

[Whitey Grandad]

Germany used its Marshall Aid money to rebuild its industry. We spent ours trying to uphold our world status.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

[Thedelldays]

Germany used its Marshall Aid money to rebuild its industry. We spent ours trying to uphold our world status.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

 

This can't be true. There is no mention of maggie

[Whitey Grandad]

This can't be true. There is no mention of maggie

 

And it's by those commie bastards at the BBC

[Barry Sanchez]

Germany used its Marshall Aid money to rebuild its industry. We spent ours trying to uphold our world status.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

 

Go on? I always thought victory in the war came at the cost of the empire.

[Hockey_saint]

Germany used its Marshall Aid money to rebuild its industry. We spent ours trying to uphold our world status.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

 

So it had nothing to with creating a cradle to grave welfare state that, whilst genuinely visionary, it cost and still costs a bomb....

 

One note to the right wingers here who bleet on about "evil commies". Name ONE, Just ONE Truely LEFT WING leader responsible for genocide and war....

[PhilippineSaint]

So it had nothing to with creating a cradle to grave welfare state that, whilst genuinely visionary, it cost and still costs a bomb....

 

One note to the right wingers here who bleet on about "evil commies". Name ONE, Just ONE Truely LEFT WING leader responsible for genocide and war....

 

Stalin

 

Mau Tse Tung

 

Ho Chi Mihn

[Barry Sanchez]

Stalin

 

Mau Tse Tung

 

Ho Chi Mihn

Any number of African dictators as well who have hidden under the guise of representing the common man.

[Redondo Saint]

So it had nothing to with creating a cradle to grave welfare state that, whilst genuinely visionary, it cost and still costs a bomb....

 

One note to the right wingers here who bleet on about "evil commies". Name ONE, Just ONE Truely LEFT WING leader responsible for genocide and war....

 

 

It took a few days but you finally managed to show your ignorance and bizarre view on England and history.

Well done!

[Hockey_saint]

It took a few days but you finally managed to show your ignorance and bizarre view on England and history.

Well done!

 

No, because I'm actually quite a bit more right wing than you know. I will also state that NONE and I do mean NONE of the examples above could truely be classed as "left" most are actually much more right wing whilst using a system based on a communist system.

 

And as for bizarre, I have a perfectly fine view of British History thanks, at least the A* A-level suggests I do but to tell the truth, I have been doing some fishing and whilst my views are not quite as left as I have been playing with here, it's quite telling to see how quickly you rise and attempt to insult me.

[Hockey_saint]

Any number of African dictators as well who have hidden under the guise of representing the common man.

 

If they pretend, they are not left-wing at all, but rather totalitarian right wingers using a left wing agenda for their own means.

[Whitey Grandad]

No, because I'm actually quite a bit more right wing than you know. I will also state that NONE and I do mean NONE of the examples above could truely be classed as "left" most are actually much more right wing whilst using a system based on a communist system.

 

And as for bizarre, I have a perfectly fine view of British History thanks, at least the A* A-level suggests I do but to tell the truth, I have been doing some fishing and whilst my views are not quite as left as I have been playing with here, it's quite telling to see how quickly you rise and attempt to insult me.

 

So your definition of a left-wing leader includes 'not starting a war or practising genocide'?

[Barry Sanchez]

If they pretend, they are not left-wing at all, but rather totalitarian right wingers using a left wing agenda for their own means.

 

With the greatest of respect you can have leftist views and ideals but still have a solely nationlist agenda (amin, mugabe) , this is happening in Sri Lanka along sectarian lines at the moment.

[Wade Garrett]

I'm not retired no. I believe that yes, the infrastructure needs to be improved but with more people comes more jobs and more need for jobs. Also, the good thing about a continental federal union is that if we don't like it here we can move about as we wish and on this front yes, I this parity needs to be aimed towards.

 

Also, "there are no jobs" is an excuse which I think is a very easy thing to say.

 

I'd like the Government that we vote for make our decisions on border control, laws and human rights. Not some unelected bureaucrat in another country. That way, if we don't like it we can vote for change.

[Barry Sanchez]

I'd like the Government that we vote for make our decisions on border control, laws and human rights. Not some unelected bureaucrat in another country. That way, if we don't like it we can vote for change.

 

Like Cameron and Clegg for instance?

[Thedelldays]

Like Cameron and Clegg for instance?

 

It's what the country wanted. Tory with a liberal twist

[Wade Garrett]

Like Cameron and Clegg for instance?

 

Whatever. I didn't vote for them but the majority of the country did. It's called democracy, a dirty word in Brussels.

[Barry Sanchez]

It's what the country wanted. Tory with a liberal twist

 

I pretty sure a tory didn't vote for a coalition, nor the liberals, neither did any of the country.

[Thedelldays]

I pretty sure a tory didn't vote for a coalition, nor the liberals, neither did any of the country.

 

The country had spoken

[Guan 2.0]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21498874

 

But none of them are romanian?

[Orange]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10222551.Romanians__associated_with_crime__says_UKIP_candidate/

 

As I'm sure I'm not the only one on here that went on our most recent UEFA tour of Romania, I find it frankly disgusting because if you did, you know that it's such a blanket statement and that a lot of the crime is commited by Roma (Gypsy) street gangs and not the majority of Romanians themselves.

 

But then, I'd expect this from the rejected right of the Conservatives. I'm all for migration myself; it's a good thing but we do need to make sure there is parity throughout the union in working wage.

 

For the middle classes and elite its great, lots of cheap labour and opares. Not so good for the working class who have their wages pulled down, more competition for the few jobs available, houses shortages etc..

 

She was asked in an interview whether it would put a strain on police, and she actually had the balls to say yes there would be an impact on crime, instead of just dodging the question like most would.

[Hockey_saint]

I'd like the Government that we vote for make our decisions on border control, laws and human rights. Not some unelected bureaucrat in another country. That way, if we don't like it we can vote for change.

 

Yep, I agree with this actually. As far as my views on the right; I think it plays upon base human prejudices just like our current unelected government are doing to the sick, elderly, dying and anyone else who's not party of their Oxford set. I still feel that the overall idea put about by Karl Marx is very different to what a lot of dictators over the world use; they use it more to appeal to the said base human emotions and in this sense ARE more right-wing (for example "this person is evil, he's a certain type, it's all their fault"....Amin did this, a very right wing ideal).

[Barry Sanchez]

The country had spoken

 

The country did not give any consensus on a coalition, that decision was taken for us.