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MNF - super analysis if Citeh demolition on now


adrian lord

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Very fair summary. Bigged us up plenty which is nice as unsurprisingly most media reflection on this game has been City's mistakes. They showed very well how our pressing and desire forced mistakes. What a performance. We will be the fittest team in the division under MP with that style of play. Requires all kinds of movement off the ball.

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moyes suggesting that long ball would be better to counter the new pressing style

 

Not quite- he spoke about being able to switch the ball quickly and exploit our narrowness when players come in from the flanks to press. Speculative hoofs a la Stoke, Wham, Newcastle and Everton aren't the same thing.

Indeed, Everton was a good test of how our setup would fare against a direct side - they are as long ball as Newcastle.

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Not quite- he spoke about being able to switch the ball quickly and exploit our narrowness when players come in from the flanks to press. Speculative hoofs a la Stoke, Wham, Newcastle and Everton aren't the same thing.

Indeed, Everton was a good test of how our setup would fare against a direct side - they are as long ball as Newcastle.

 

They don't hoof it into no one. They generally hoof it towards players and try to support them

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Also liked his honesty in admitting he may of got MP wrong and that his style would see us relegated. I like Neville. When the presenter put his words back at him he simply replied "I was wrong".

 

Yep - he did say though that it was a limited high line.

From what I've seen our CBs don't gamble as much and tend to drop off - Cork in many ways is the key and the insurance policy as he helps prevent too much space opening up between our midfield and defense.

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moyes suggesting that long ball would be better to counter the new pressing style

 

Gosh, what a shock... :rolleyes:

 

You can see me raising this on the Newcastle build-up thread from this afternoon.

Edited by The9
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Dunno if Newcastle will be quite so hoofy now they've got cabaye back and ain't obliged to play both ba and cisse up top

 

They were hoofy when Cabaye was playing all of last season and didn't often play both. Actually it's not so much hoofy as "direct bally".

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They don't hoof it into no one. They generally hoof it towards players and try to support them

 

Of course but its not the same as switching play quickly -a Morgan type ball- and exploiting the space, usually with pace. I'm more concerned by a Spurs-type team that uses the whole width of the pitch.

As I say, Everton didn't have much luck against us (and what they did enjoy was probably due to tiredness) and they are as, if not more direct than Newcastle.

Edited by shurlock
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Having said I wasn't convinced we were all out pressing high in the Man U and Wigan matches (I was a little drunk and not my most tactically-minded to be fair), when Ed Chamberlain asked "what was different in Pochettino's first match?" I sat there begging for Moyes NOT to say "they pressed high up the pitch" in our first game.

 

He didn't.

 

He only said "they pressed". Which to be fair was probably all MP had the time to coach in 3 days. :D

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those who missed it...it was nothing to get excited about..

 

highlighted how we pressed city to making mistakes...and Neville saying he was wrong in that we would get well beaten playing the high tempo, high pressing game..

 

moyes said that the longer/more direct ball is what would be needed to avoid the pressing midfield....

 

be interesting to see if teams try and counter us

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those who missed it...it was nothing to get excited about..

 

highlighted how we pressed city to making mistakes...and Neville saying he was wrong in that we would get well beaten playing the high tempo, high pressing game..

 

moyes said that the longer/more direct ball is what would be needed to avoid the pressing midfield....

 

be interesting to see if teams try and counter us

 

Actually Moyes said you could either try to play out of the pressured area of the pitch or switch the play quickly.

 

He actually said (as a negative tactic) that City were reduced at times to hopefully punting forwards as that was the only option (and one that the pressing team would like to see Im sure).

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I think that might have been one of Saints best TV appearances ever. I missed the very beginning, but both Neville and Moyes were full of praise for our team, and lets face it, with muppet patrol permanently infesting the Match of the Day studios, probably the most articulate analysis of our team for decades, if not all time. This thing went on for MINUTES, and plenty of them. A far cry from staying up until 1am to see 15 seconds of goalmouth footage from L1.

 

FFS, do you remember those days? The unbridled joy of Saints being the League One main game? Arf!

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Actually Moyes said you could either try to play out of the pressured area of the pitch or switch the play quickly.

 

He actually said (as a negative tactic) that City were reduced at times to hopefully punting forwards as that was the only option (and one that the pressing team would like to see Im sure).

 

Exactly- glad you heard the same thing as me. Its a subtle point but Moyes was not talking about the longer/direct ball suggested here.

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Interesting stuff to hear. I'm sure there are twelve managers trying to figure this out right now - eleven if we discount BFS. ;)

 

I would assume that one way to beat it is to play a quick ball through the press and then try to break past it, but it takes as much fitness to counter the press as it does to play it. And most of the twelve teams we must still play A) can't or won't increase fitness levels that quickly, just for us, and B) don't have anything like a Cork/Schneiderlin duo. Scheiderlin almost saved City's goal on Saturday by (yet again) sprinting 80 yards or so to be in the right place.

 

They will probably respond in much the same way as City did - or didn't.

 

But Pochettino, I'm sure, has seen it before and knows how to respond.

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Interesting stuff to hear. I'm sure there are twelve managers trying to figure this out right now - eleven if we discount BFS. ;)

 

I would assume that one way to beat it is to play a quick ball through the press and then try to break past it, but it takes as much fitness to counter the press as it does to play it. And most of the twelve teams we must still play A) can't or won't increase fitness levels that quickly, just for us, and B) don't have anything like a Cork/Schneiderlin duo. Scheiderlin almost saved City's goal on Saturday by (yet again) sprinting 80 yards or so to be in the right place.

 

They will probably respond in much the same way as City did - or didn't.

 

But Pochettino, I'm sure, has seen it before and knows how to respond.

 

I agree - it also takes considerable skill to play through teams like that. Save two wonder passes from Silva (one under immense pressure), the play leading to their goal would have broken down. And needless to say their goal came from a corner where the CBs were much higher up the pitch than they would ordinarily be.

MFN also highlighted how the likes of Punch would come off the opposing flank, almost the blindside, to help with the press - great when it works but it does leave us down vulnerable down the sides if the ball can be switched quickly.

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Off subject a little' date=' but WBA were 7/1 to win this. Thought that was very long odds, so put a fiver on. Wish I'd made it a tenner.[/quote']

 

First game in 10 weeks that Mulumbu and Jacob have played together, no real surprise West Brom went back to their pre-injury/African Cup of Nations form.

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Good thread this one after some real gash on here in recent times. Enjoying the tactical analysis from our lot.

 

What's interesting is that the longer MP has worked with the players the longer they have sustained this pressing tactic.

 

Obvious I suppose but lends credence as to why against city we pretty much bossed the game where as against Utd/Wigan it was two good halves in each game.

 

Moyes obviously changed things in our game against them but that again was most likely our lot running out of gas or not "switched on" fully to MP's full tactics of how to regain the initiative once a team changed the way they are playing.

 

Another two weeks on the training ground should see him introduce more themes and tactics. We're hopefully only seeing the first set of instructions being passed on by the coaches with hopefully more detail being added gradually.

 

Keep up the good work!

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it is not just the pressing that has impressed me but also the organisation and shape of those not pressing in the Man City game.

 

i am absolutely shocked at how much improvement MP has been able to achieve in such a short space of time and very excited about where this team could go.

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it is not just the pressing that has impressed me but also the organisation and shape of those not pressing in the Man City game.

 

i am absolutely shocked at how much improvement MP has been able to achieve in such a short space of time and very excited about where this team could go.

 

I dont want to be a doom merchant (lord knows, we have enough of those already) but another thing Moyes mentioned which I completely agreed with was that much of our improvement was already evident under NA. So I dont share your shock at what MP has been able to achieve, fantastic though the City win was. It was one win. The 2-2 at Chelsea was almost as impressive given the 2-0 half time deficit, away from home. We defended badly in the Wigan game and we gave away a very poor goal v City, so there is more improvement to come. Dont get me wrong, Saturday was brilliant and I am sure we will keep improving but its not quite the quantum leap you make out just yet

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it is not just the pressing that has impressed me but also the organisation and shape of those not pressing in the Man City game.

 

i am absolutely shocked at how much improvement MP has been able to achieve in such a short space of time and very excited about where this team could go.

 

Agreed.

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I have to say I could not stand Gary Neville as a player and when he went to Sky I thought he would be the same as the other Redknapp. He is brilliant and coupled with David Moyes it was the best review I have ever seen and not just because it was about us. Neville is destroying MOTD and the clowns on there and even that t**t Kamara is beginning to talk sense and not give advice to people like Sir Alex.

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I dont want to be a doom merchant (lord knows, we have enough of those already) but another thing Moyes mentioned which I completely agreed with was that much of our improvement was already evident under NA. So I dont share your shock at what MP has been able to achieve, fantastic though the City win was. It was one win. The 2-2 at Chelsea was almost as impressive given the 2-0 half time deficit, away from home. We defended badly in the Wigan game and we gave away a very poor goal v City, so there is more improvement to come. Dont get me wrong, Saturday was brilliant and I am sure we will keep improving but its not quite the quantum leap you make out just yet

 

I think it was a case of a few things clicking together as well as Man City being poor, but you're right that there is some way to go and there is always room for improvement.

 

One such aspect is converting the chances we have into goals, the midfielders need to improve the accuracy and decision making in their shooting. It's great that now they are getting into supporting postions but cannot rely on the opposition slipping up to give the easier chances.

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I dont want to be a doom merchant (lord knows, we have enough of those already) but another thing Moyes mentioned which I completely agreed with was that much of our improvement was already evident under NA. So I dont share your shock at what MP has been able to achieve, fantastic though the City win was. It was one win. The 2-2 at Chelsea was almost as impressive given the 2-0 half time deficit, away from home. We defended badly in the Wigan game and we gave away a very poor goal v City, so there is more improvement to come. Dont get me wrong, Saturday was brilliant and I am sure we will keep improving but its not quite the quantum leap you make out just yet

 

For me I think the point at Chelsea and the win at Aston Villa were very much our luckiest points this season. We weren´t very good against Chelsea and really only created 1 or 2 chances beside the goals and if I remember correct only had two shots on goal, that is the goals we made. They destroyed us in the first half and it could have been 4-0 at half time.

Win at Aston Villa were also more of the hit and miss-Benteke rather than us doing a good game. It was a real scrap, but 3 nice points anyway.

 

I see a tremendous difference in our game now under MP, not regarding results yet but in the way we play it is a big diffenrence to the better from my point of view.

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For me I think the point at Chelsea and the win at Aston Villa were very much our luckiest points this season. We weren´t very good against Chelsea and really only created 1 or 2 chances beside the goals and if I remember correct only had two shots on goal, that is the goals we made. They destroyed us in the first half and it could have been 4-0 at half time.

Win at Aston Villa were also more of the hit and miss-Benteke rather than us doing a good game. It was a real scrap, but 3 nice points anyway.

 

I see a tremendous difference in our game now under MP, not regarding results yet but in the way we play it is a big diffenrence to the better from my point of view.

What about Arsenal at home? Or for 75% of the Stoke City away game?
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For me I think the point at Chelsea and the win at Aston Villa were very much our luckiest points this season. We weren´t very good against Chelsea and really only created 1 or 2 chances beside the goals and if I remember correct only had two shots on goal, that is the goals we made. They destroyed us in the first half and it could have been 4-0 at half time.

 

I agree but then we deserve the chance to ride our luck - given the harsh outcomes we had to live with in the first 10 or so matches of the season.

 

Its that old "rub of the green" thing.....you either have it or you don't.

 

And what was that golfing adage about "the more I practice the luckier I get?"

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For me I think the point at Chelsea and the win at Aston Villa were very much our luckiest points this season. We weren´t very good against Chelsea and really only created 1 or 2 chances beside the goals and if I remember correct only had two shots on goal, that is the goals we made. They destroyed us in the first half and it could have been 4-0 at half time.

Win at Aston Villa were also more of the hit and miss-Benteke rather than us doing a good game. It was a real scrap, but 3 nice points anyway.

 

I see a tremendous difference in our game now under MP, not regarding results yet but in the way we play it is a big diffenrence to the better from my point of view.

 

While I take your point about how well we played, does the fact that we were being battered by Chelsea not make the 2 goal comeback even better? As for Villa, we murdered them in the first half, and should have had more. Of course they came back into it but they were at home and desparate

Edited by Bucks Saint
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