So are we now officially OVER Nigel Adkins

[ant]

No, not 'over' him as such, though it doesn't stop me appreciating the subtle improvements to our play that have been introduced since. Pardew and Adkins have special places in recent Saints history and that can't be whitewashed. Hopefully Pochettino will attain the same status over time.

[GAS]

Completely agree. Managed to keep my bed reasonably dry over the NA sacking. I could see how the timing looked appalling, but I was unsure on us in the Prem under NA anyway. We'd been playing nice stuff, but without any true conviction that we fancied getting it in the net that much. That definitely looks to have changed.

 

The treatment of Rickie under MP has been completely different. With NA, you were never sure if RL was going to start. With MP, he's captain of the team (long may that continue, btw) and once again, contributing to tons of attacking play. He looks like a player that has been galvanised by the recent changes. Rickie rightfully gets a lot of respect for the fact that he's played through all the leagues. It looks like he's reinventing himself again. He may be on his way to 31, but I still think he's got a long career ahead of him. The vast majority of what he's good at will be with him until he retires.

When MP took over I was worried about the position of Rickie, but he has shown, as always, what a great and special player he is. A player most commentators aliken to Grant Holt, what very little they know, or watch or care about football.

[Olallana]

As everyone I didn´t like what happened to Nigel but when I heard MP was coming in I immediatly had high hopes for our club.

He will turn out to a fantastic manager and remeber what managers were rumoured back in november....

 

Di Matteo.......Christian Gross.......Harry Redknapp........dodge some bullets there...

[ottery st mary]

When MP took over I was worried about the position of Rickie, but he has shown, as always, what a great and special player he is. A player most commentators aliken to Grant Holt, what very little they know, or watch or care about football.

 

Totally correct...Rikeee is a very clever footballer..

 

Not only a handful in the air..

 

Very clever on the ball.

 

Very good footballer is our Rikeee Lambert.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Today would never have happened without Nigel Adkins. Will forever be grateful for what he did. Saints Legend. Have to say I don't think today would have happened without Mauricio Pochettino either. Cortese has done an excellent job.

[locks heath saint 2]

Are we ???????

 

Draw a line and move on, Thanks Nige and good luck

[saint lard]

Adkins was a busted flush as soon as we got to the prem,he was never going to cut it.

great at lower leagues but tactically inept when up against the higher echelon of football.

probably a nice fella but not good enough to take us forward.

superb decision by Nicola....he saw it,I saw it from the off.

Adkins was never a longterm solution.

and thank god we don't have to listen to his post/pre match interviews and sound bites......he was a laughing stock.

it was worth getting all the ****e from many on here and I believe I was right in slating Adkins.....shame so many was taken in by him.

[CB Fry]

Adkins was a busted flush as soon as we got to the prem,he was never going to cut it.

great at lower leagues but tactically inept when up against the higher echelon of football.

probably a nice fella but not good enough to take us forward.

superb decision by Nicola....he saw it,I saw it from the off.

Adkins was never a longterm solution.

and thank god we don't have to listen to his post/pre match interviews and sound bites......he was a laughing stock.

it was worth getting all the ****e from many on here and I believe I was right in slating Adkins.....shame so many was taken in by him.

 

There's trolling and there's trolling but this is exceptional. Well done.

[lordswoodsaints]

Nigel who?

[wild-saint]

the chairman made a call that he wanted to change the management team and the man he wanted was available.

 

As such what would be considered the right way to make that change without upsetting people? i agree it was wrong not to acknowlege NA's work in the programme /publicly but how do you get rid ?

[Dalek2003]

No by a long way. We had a good day against City, but let's see if we win the less 'glamorous ties'.

 

Still, if we stay in the Premier this year, it will be job well done and we will be on the brink of an exciting new era.

[Window Cleaner]

Guess so, I was over him before he even got sacked though. Good NPC manager, lacked the intensity needed for the PL.

didn't think he was getting all there was out of his players.

[Kingsland Red]

Interesting comments from Kelvin Davis in the programme that training has stepped up a notch. I had heard that training was getting a bit stale.

NA seemed to set up his teams in a 'Saints' way, rather than a 'Cortese' way this season, with too much caution and respect for the other Premiership teams. MP's teams clearly will always go for the jugular. Comment in Spain was that MP's teams 'come after you' and I can see that we will ask far more questions of teams with the MP regime; and any opposition will have to be better than us (including work rate). That will reduce the number of teams above us. It wouldn't surprise me if we finished above West Ham, Fulham and Norwich this year as well as the teams currently below us.

 

So in answer to the OP, I've now moved on, but loved the NA years and will remain appalled at the way he appears to have been treated.

[Saint Fan CaM]

No by a long way. We had a good day against City, but let's see if we win the less 'glamorous ties'.

 

Still, if we stay in the Premier this year, it will be job well done and we will be on the brink of an exciting new era.[/Q

 

The last three performances including a stunning victory against the PL champions and you think we are YET to be on the brink of an exciting new era?!? Consider the context of where we've come from for one minute - this IS without doubt a club going places.

[Mr X]

No by a long way. We had a good day against City, but let's see if we win the less 'glamorous ties'.

 

Still, if we stay in the Premier this year, it will be job well done and we will be on the brink of an exciting new era.[/Q

 

The last three performances including a stunning victory against the PL champions and you think we are YET to be on the brink of an exciting new era?!? Consider the context of where we've come from for one minute - this IS without doubt a club going places.

 

nonsense you are getting carried away with yourself I am as pleased with our peformances as anyone but we are what four matches in? judge him on the rest of our season as if we suffer a decline you will be the first calling for his sacking

[ottery st mary]

Interesting comments from Kelvin Davis in the programme that training has stepped up a notch. I had heard that training was getting a bit stale.

NA seemed to set up his teams in a 'Saints' way, rather than a 'Cortese' way this season, with too much caution and respect for the other Premiership teams. MP's teams clearly will always go for the jugular. Comment in Spain was that MP's teams 'come after you' and I can see that we will ask far more questions of teams with the MP regime; and any opposition will have to be better than us (including work rate). That will reduce the number of teams above us. It wouldn't surprise me if we finished above West Ham, Fulham and Norwich this year as well as the teams currently below us.

 

So in answer to the OP, I've now moved on, but loved the NA years and will remain appalled at the way he appears to have been treated.

 

 

Totally agree with your fine statement..

 

 

Nigel will always be well thought of by me.....

 

A place in my heart and many thanks for all his great work..

 

As with...Ted Bates, Lawrie Mac , Gordon Strachan , Chris Nicholl etc etc etc........should I need to only do one etc?

 

Forgot the great Alan Pardew......who started the new ball rolling for NA...

Edited 10 February, 2013 by ottery st mary

[Appy]

I could accept him going.

 

I am behind Pochettino 100%.

 

But the whole programme thing showed a terrible lack of respect for a man that did an incredible job for us.

[dubai_phil]

The one question I have never seen answered on here is what would those complaining about the removal of Adkins have done differently?

 

I will admit I can start to see something different about the team and the attitude of the players. I can (like everyone else) read that MP is by all accounts a coup to have been able to bring that level of coach to the club.

 

I can understand the fact that there was a window of opportunity where we could get him.

 

So what would people have done differently?

 

MP is an improvement (so far) on NA by the looks of it.

 

So what would YOU have done?

 

 

 

Me? I would have told NA he was being replaced and we would honour his contract. I would have made sure that he received the praise he was due in a statement.

 

But sorry, IF I knew MP was coming I would have have had him watching us from the first second....

 

I do NOT believe that having a "mourning period" with no manager would have allowed us to stay in the PL.

 

I'd simply like to know what else COULD have been different?

[dubai_phil]

I could accept him going.

 

I am behind Pochettino 100%.

 

But the whole programme thing showed a terrible lack of respect for a man that did an incredible job for us.

 

Again, a genuine question.

 

He was canned on a Thursday.

 

What day of the week are our programmes normally printed?

[Appy]

Again, a genuine question.

 

He was canned on a Thursday.

 

What day of the week are our programmes normally printed?

 

The game was on a Monday, they had time to put a little thing about him or even saying in the Chelsea report that "Adkins men fought back".

[shurlock]

Again, a genuine question.

 

He was canned on a Thursday.

 

What day of the week are our programmes normally printed?

 

 

Remember it was for a Monday game, so a different timetable/deadline might have applied.

[NewYorkSaint]

There's a difference between the decision, and the way it was implemented.

 

I think it's pretty clear now that Pottechino offers a step up. So the decision to bring him in was the right one. Some of the critics seem to think you can never fire a manager unless he's performed terribly. There's no logic to that. If the owners are ambitious, you replace a manager if and only if you believe you can install a better one.

 

So I have no problem with the fact that the decision was taken weeks earlier, that it happened right after a great performance, etc. Al that was actually really smart. What wasn't smart is that it would have cost Cortese nothing to honour Adkins with a much warmer statement, program guide recognition, and perhaps even a farewell ceremony on the pitch. Instead of "whilst we acknowledge Adkins contribution..." he could have said: "Adkins was a great manager. A truly great manager. He brought us up 2 divisions. The club will always honour his performance and his time here. We'll give him a great send-off. But I believe I've found a manager who's even better and can take Saints to the very top of Europe.... "

 

That would have made the whole transition so much easier. He didn't do that. It's a real shame. But it was still a brilliant, courageous decision... ...and yes, it's time to move on.

[pap]

The one question I have never seen answered on here is what would those complaining about the removal of Adkins have done differently?

 

I will admit I can start to see something different about the team and the attitude of the players. I can (like everyone else) read that MP is by all accounts a coup to have been able to bring that level of coach to the club.

 

I can understand the fact that there was a window of opportunity where we could get him.

 

So what would people have done differently?

 

MP is an improvement (so far) on NA by the looks of it.

 

So what would YOU have done?

 

 

 

Me? I would have told NA he was being replaced and we would honour his contract. I would have made sure that he received the praise he was due in a statement.

 

But sorry, IF I knew MP was coming I would have have had him watching us from the first second....

 

I do NOT believe that having a "mourning period" with no manager would have allowed us to stay in the PL.

 

I'd simply like to know what else COULD have been different?

 

 

Most people are having a moan because they've got a pre-existing beef with the chairman or have never seen the swift fall from grace of someone in a cut and thrust corporate environment. Most of the time, there is zero acknowledgement of anything save the fact that person x has left the company.

 

Last time around, people complained about the exit of Pardew because we didn't have someone lined up to replace him straight away. Now, people are complaining about having a man in place before Adkins got the chop. It looked callous, but it was an effective transition.

 

When MP was first hired, many people were saying that we'd definitely be relegated. Some were even saying that they hoped we'd get relegated. Feck me, you see less tarts at a pimps' convention.

 

Still early, but MP has brought about a big change in the way we play. Pep Guardiola's comment, that his teams "come looking for you" seems to be an accurate assessment of what MP brings to the table.

 

From my perspective as a humble fan, it's a change in outlook. I wrote earlier in the season that I could never tell how an NA game was going to go. There were teams that we should have beaten on paper, but failed to pick up 3 points from. Always felt like we were taking a punt; a lot of passing but no clear direction or gameplan.

 

We were set up to compete under NA. We're setup to win under MP.

[Cabrone]

Was gutted to see NA go and he will always be remembered with a lot of affection but we've gone up a few notches under MP and I'm quite excited at the moment.

 

MP's first task is to stay in this league and that's looking good so far.

 

If we secure safety then who knows what MP could achieve if we keep our players and bring in a few class signings (free scoring centre forward would be nice).

 

So yes, I have gotten over the change.

[BARCELONASAINT]

Yes i was shocked and disgusted with the way NA was treated (or appeared to be treated!)

The more and more i think about it the more i suspect NA knew he had been given the task to get us to the Premier league and that would the be the end of his bus ride....i keep thinking back to the final day of last season and how emmotional he was and some of the comments he made....i am now convinced more than ever he knew his journey was at an end, he had achieved what he had been brought here to do. I suspect NC had a short list of managers he wanted for this next step up and had to wait to get his man, hence NA getting a few months of Premier league football.

I hope one day we will find out what was the agreement between NC and NA and was it really a surprise when NA got his marching orders!

 

For today and now it appears our chairman has made a very shrewd move. If my 15 year old son can turn round to me and say "i've never seen Saints play like this" then i know something has definately improved and the future looks bright.

[Baird of the land]

Still very disappointed at the treatment of Adkins. Was very unsure of Potchettino choice but so far he seems to have potential. Cortese may not be the nicest guy and while it is still early day it might turn out to be a shrewd appointment.

[JustinR]

Was over Nigel about an hour after he was sacked. Was one of the 0.5% who agreed with the decision in the poll on here.

 

I would never ever be happy with 16th in the premier league after 30 million had been spent. (forget the tough start, we were halfway through the season).

[Window Cleaner]

Yes i was shocked and disgusted with the way NA was treated (or appeared to be treated!)

NA and was it really a surprise when NA got his marching orders!

 

.

 

 

Still can't see what there was to be shocked and disgusted about really. He'll get paid anyway and he was holding us back. Add that to the monumental f*ck up he made over the GK situation which showed his judgement to be totally flawed and I think he was lucky to get as long as he did. If it was me he'd have been gone after the Sunderland game, Pochettino was available by then I think.

[trousers]

Most people are having a moan because they've got a pre-existing beef with the chairman or have never seen the swift fall from grace of someone in a cut and thrust corporate environment. Most of the time, there is zero acknowledgement of anything save the fact that person x has left the company.

 

Last time around, people complained about the exit of Pardew because we didn't have someone lined up to replace him straight away. Now, people are complaining about having a man in place before Adkins got the chop. It looked callous, but it was an effective transition.

 

When MP was first hired, many people were saying that we'd definitely be relegated. Some were even saying that they hoped we'd get relegated. Feck me, you see less tarts at a pimps' convention.

 

Still early, but MP has brought about a big change in the way we play. Pep Guardiola's comment, that his teams "come looking for you" seems to be an accurate assessment of what MP brings to the table.

 

From my perspective as a humble fan, it's a change in outlook. I wrote earlier in the season that I could never tell how an NA game was going to go. There were teams that we should have beaten on paper, but failed to pick up 3 points from. Always felt like we were taking a punt; a lot of passing but no clear direction or gameplan.

 

We were set up to compete under NA. We're setup to win under MP.

 

You've just saved me the trouble of typing up my thoughts kind sir

[trousers]

One question that's been bugging me the last few weeks...."if pressing high up the field in 'packs' is such an effective way of being ultra competitive (which it obviously is) why doesn't every team in the land set themselves up this way?"

 

Pochettino's approach to the game is quite rightly being hailed as a master stroke but if its so obviously the best way to play football why is it relatively rarely deployed? And might we start to see more teams adopt 'our' approach if they see the dividends it starts to reap for us?

 

Just some out loud thoughts.

Edited 10 February, 2013 by trousers

[Wes Tender]

We are now back at 15th place, which is where we were with Adkins. I've already made my position clear; if we end the season at 15th or below, then I don't really see the point of sacking Adkins.

 

Whether we would have beaten City under Adkins is up for debate. But we have given the glory teams a run for their money this season and were improving, so it was not inconceivable.

[Thedelldays]

We are now back at 15th place, which is where we were with Adkins. I've already made my position clear; if we end the season at 15th or below, then I don't really see the point of sacking Adkins.

 

Whether we would have beaten City under Adkins is up for debate. But we have given the glory teams a run for their money this season and were improving, so it was not inconceivable.

 

cry me a river...

[trousers]

We are now back at 15th place, which is where we were with Adkins. I've already made my position clear; if we end the season at 15th or below, then I don't really see the point of sacking Adkins.

 

Whether we would have beaten City under Adkins is up for debate. But we have given the glory teams a run for their money this season and were improving, so it was not inconceivable.

 

If we finish 15th how will we know whether that's a better or worse achievement than had we stuck with Adkins?

 

Also, I don't think Cortese made the change to improve out position this season (per se) rather it was an opportune moment to bring onboard the manager who he sees being more beneficial for the long term

[miserableoldgit]

Adkins was a busted flush as soon as we got to the prem,he was never going to cut it.

great at lower leagues but tactically inept when up against the higher echelon of football.

probably a nice fella but not good enough to take us forward.

superb decision by Nicola....he saw it,I saw it from the off.

Adkins was never a longterm solution.

and thank god we don't have to listen to his post/pre match interviews and sound bites......he was a laughing stock.

it was worth getting all the ****e from many on here and I believe I was right in slating Adkins.....shame so many was taken in by him.

:adore::adore::facepalm::facepalm: You were wrong in slating Adkins. You were doing it while he was leading us to two consecutive promotions. Only someone with a delusionary sense of self-importance ( or a troll of the highest order) would do that. Glad to see you back now that he has gone.

Edited 10 February, 2013 by miserableoldgit

[Window Cleaner]

One question that's been bugging me the last few weeks...."if pressing high up the field in 'packs' is such an effective way of being ultra competitive (which it obviously is) why doesn't every team in the land set themselves up this way?"

 

Pochettino's approach to the game is quite rightly being hailed as a master stroke but if its so obviously the best way to play football why is it relatively rarely deployed? And might we start to see more teams adopt 'our' approach if they see the dividends it starts to reap for us?

 

Just some out loud thoughts.

 

You have to have either the right kind of single player or 2 who can do half the job equally well. Players with massive engines. When you already have the player who's run the furthest of all in the PL season and who has put in the most tackles and interceptions you're off to a good start. When you have another one just like him you're even better equipped.

[Wes Tender]

If we finish 15th how will we know whether that's a better or worse achievement than had we stuck with Adkins?

 

Also, I don't think Cortese made the change to improve out position this season (per se) rather it was an opportune moment to bring onboard the manager who he sees being more beneficial for the long term

 

We had passed the half way stage of the season, so it was a reasonable yardstick. We had weathered arguably the toughest early fixture list in the history of the Premiership, when player confidence could have taken a knock and yet we had overcome that and were making good progress. Yes, Man City are a big scalp as Champions, but then again we achieved a draw away at the European Champions recently and should have beaten Arsenal too.

 

It is far too early to make a judgement at the moment and I have enjoyed watching us play lately, but I'm fairly confident that Adkins would have got us 15th at least, so that is my benchmark at the moment for judging Pochettino's performance by the end of the season. It isn't setting the bar that high, is it?

[Miltonroader07]

As I have said previously Adkins limitations was in danger of holding us back, If he had been in charge today we would have lost. We needed a change at the top and thankfully Cortese had the balls to make the change.

 

I think this is the post of the day, 100% correct

[trousers]

We had passed the half way stage of the season, so it was a reasonable yardstick. We had weathered arguably the toughest early fixture list in the history of the Premiership, when player confidence could have taken a knock and yet we had overcome that and were making good progress. Yes, Man City are a big scalp as Champions, but then again we achieved a draw away at the European Champions recently and should have beaten Arsenal too.

 

It is far too early to make a judgement at the moment and I have enjoyed watching us play lately, but I'm fairly confident that Adkins would have got us 15th at least, so that is my benchmark at the moment for judging Pochettino's performance by the end of the season. It isn't setting the bar that high, is it?

 

Whatever judgement we all make at the end of the season will inevitably be subjective as we'll never know how the season would have panned out with Adkins. Yes, we can cite probabilities but not definitives.

[Tom8558]

It could have been handled better, but it does look as if NC has made the right call. I think that NA had taken the club as far as he could. NA is still a top bloke and will get another chance.

 

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the backroom staff went as well, which also appears a necessary call.

[Frank's cousin]

One question that's been bugging me the last few weeks...."if pressing high up the field in 'packs' is such an effective way of being ultra competitive (which it obviously is) why doesn't every team in the land set themselves up this way?"

 

Pochettino's approach to the game is quite rightly being hailed as a master stroke but if its so obviously the best way to play football why is it relatively rarely deployed? And might we start to see more teams adopt 'our' approach if they see the dividends it starts to reap for us?

 

Just some out loud thoughts.

 

4231 - lends its self to the advanced pressing - but you also have to have mobile players - in Cork and Spider in the '2' we have two of the ideal players for this - and they are KEY to making it work - the attacking 4 need to put a shift in, but IMHO, its about how good that '2' is - how quickly they can turn a 6-3-1 defensive position into a 2-1 -6 -1 attacking formation as fullbacks join in ....and the reverse to avoid getting hit on the break.

 

Under NIge we tried this and also 4-3-3, but given the early defensive frailties seemed more reluctant to give spider or Cork the freedom to go end to end... indeed one of teh problems with 4-2-3-1 when attacking in numbers is that you are susceptable to the long ball ott and also a fast break - which is why fitness and mobility and pace is needed.

 

Ultimately, you also want that '3' to be able to interchange so left/centre/right can mix and match position which causes additional problems for defenders - especially when you have mobile full backs joining in and say spider or cork pushing up...

 

Why dont others do it? simple because too many managers still set up not to loose 451 away and 442 at home - and as mentioned above - you need both a quality '2' and high fitness... a whole season like that would need a big squad all able to play in that same way.. all MHO ofcourse, am no expert, but loved seeing the Germans play 4231 in WC 2010 (except against us) - and felt if we could get the players, it would be fantastic to see sainst try it... We will need a plan B as some sides will be too good and hold the ball despite the pressing game, but in the meantime, big smile on face this morning!

[Thedelldays]

also, no more lambert playing in the hole...

[Frank's cousin]

also, no more lambert playing in the hole...

 

Indeed, another thing I forgot, was your striker also needs to be a playmaker as the the other attacking players come into the game... and in Rickie we have a astute and intelligent footballer - some of his assists and ability to read a pass prove decisive - best 1m player since Trever Francis

[shurlock]

also, no more lambert playing in the hole...

 

Not sure about that- he was dropping off quite a bit and taking up wide positions as he usually does. But yes Jrod wasn't playing in front of him.

Also interesting that Jrod has looked more comfortable on the left in recent weeks, something NA was slated for.

Edited 10 February, 2013 by shurlock

[La BoIS Saint]

Answers as expected from the CoC.

[Window Cleaner]

Answers as expected from the CoC.

 

CoC what's that then Connaisseurs of Crap (management) ?

Edited 10 February, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[Frank's cousin]

Answers as expected from the CoC.

 

CoC is still open for recruitment - had a load of new applicants this morning, and expect more by the end of the season.

[Leicestersaint]

What a ridiculous question by the OP - I am certainly not 'over' the disgraceful shabby way he was treated. I have supported Saints for over 50 years. After 4 matches Pochettino is doing OK - but it is still Adkins team even if the tactics may be different. I will judge Pochettino after a full season or so when the team will be his. Meanwhile our chairman remains the treacherous odious little shyster that he unfortunately is and will continue to be.

[Olallana]

So....when people gets new facts in their hands, thay are not allowed to reassess their opinions?

 

That´s not downtalking what was previous, only that it has been turned for the better....

[Mr X]

What a ridiculous question by the OP - I am certainly not 'over' the disgraceful shabby way he was treated. I have supported Saints for over 50 years. After 4 matches Pochettino is doing OK - but it is still Adkins team even if the tactics may be different. I will judge Pochettino after a full season or so when the team will be his. Meanwhile our chairman remains the treacherous odious little shyster that he unfortunately is and will continue to be.

 

too true but as somone said "he may be a b a s t a r d but hes our b a s t a r d"

[VectisSaint]

Was shocked when it happened, saddened by the nature of the move, will always think highly of Adkins, but in truth it was quite clear yesterday and in previous 2 games that NA and his staff had taken the players as far as they could. Easy to see in hindsight I know. Used to think our players were very fit, but MP has already taken "Saints Fit" to a new level, as he needed to in order to implement the high press, high intensity game. NA tried it a few times, but the players often ran out of steam. Time will tell of course, but yesterday did not seem like a fluke to me. Will be interesting to see how we get on against Wet Sham when Fat Sam plays hoofball, it is supposedly the way to counteract the high ball, will The Sheriff employ a different tactic for that game?