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Minutes silence


edprice1984

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The 233 or more who died in the night club in Brazil, amongst others.

 

Were they football fans? The nightclub event was an utter tragedy but had nothing to do with this match or the fans. There are too many attempts to commemorate various unrelated or relatively trivial (Gary Speed) which only leads to devaluing the silences and leads to behaviour like tonight.

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Were they football fans? The nightclub event was an utter tragedy but had nothing to do with this match or the fans. There are too many attempts to commemorate various unrelated or relatively trivial (Gary Speed) which only leads to devaluing the silences and leads to behaviour like tonight.

Hardly trivial - wasn't it the third highest deathcount in a nightclub fire ever?....and given who England were playing not exactly unrelated :/

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I heard the announcement on tv that it was to mark the tragic events of the nightclub fire, and today was the 55th anniversary of the Munich air disaster. I suspect it was the Munich issue that triggered someones inevitable response.

 

And it was twenty years ago,February 1993 (although not on 6th Feb) that Bobby Moore passed away.

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Were they football fans? The nightclub event was an utter tragedy but had nothing to do with this match or the fans. There are too many attempts to commemorate various unrelated or relatively trivial (Gary Speed) which only leads to devaluing the silences and leads to behaviour like tonight.

 

Would guess it was at the request of Brazil which is fair enough I suppose. I wouldn't disrupt a minute silence but do think that it's getting out of hand - there's a fine line between showing respect and mawkishly sharing grief for people we don't know. To be honest I don't really know the answer but things like the Villa "no respect" chant don't help.

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Were they football fans? The nightclub event was an utter tragedy but had nothing to do with this match or the fans. There are too many attempts to commemorate various unrelated or relatively trivial (Gary Speed) which only leads to devaluing the silences and leads to behaviour like tonight.

 

It was a massive tragedy in Brazil so only right that the Brazilian national team want a minutes silence imo.

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Would guess it was at the request of Brazil which is fair enough I suppose. I wouldn't disrupt a minute silence but do think that it's getting out of hand - there's a fine line between showing respect and mawkishly sharing grief for people we don't know. To be honest I don't really know the answer but things like the Villa "no respect" chant don't help.

 

I agree with all of this. And the Villa chant is utterly pathetic, if they want to applaud at a given point in their matches thats fair enough and up to them, but why the hell should the opposition supporters get coerced into it?

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Were they football fans? The nightclub event was an utter tragedy but had nothing to do with this match or the fans. There are too many attempts to commemorate various unrelated or relatively trivial (Gary Speed) which only leads to devaluing the silences and leads to behaviour like tonight.

 

It had everything to do with this match. hundreds of people died in Brazil. Of course their national team would wish to show respect. So should we only have a minute's silence for people if they can prove they were once football fans? Oh, and please tell Gary Speed's wife and children that his death was (relatively) trivial. I'll write the same about you when you go the same way.

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I don't think it was scheduled to be a minute. The phrase used was 'a period of silence'. Not too difficult, I would have thought, but some people have no respect. 233 is a lot of people but, 'no Brits involved'.

 

Playing devils advocate does the number of people who die make a difference? If so what's the cutoff point - what number constitutes a period of silence and what doesn't? Personally a single death is as important as a multiple one but the only people it really concerns are friends and family. The rest of us can respect the loss of others but I think for most people that's implicit anyway - do we need to publically display that grief/respect? I'm not defending people who disrupt a period of silence but I do think their are genuine questions concerning death and how we honour it - let's face it people die every day and it's all tragic.

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Playing devils advocate does the number of people who die make a difference? If so what's the cutoff point - what number constitutes a period of silence and what doesn't? Personally a single death is as important as a multiple one but the only people it really concerns are friends and family. The rest of us can respect the loss of others but I think for most people that's implicit anyway - do we need to publically display that grief/respect? I'm not defending people who disrupt a period of silence but I do think their are genuine questions concerning death and how we honour it - let's face it people die every day and it's all tragic.

 

Disagree with you there. Two deaths are worse than 1 death for me, 3 worse than 2, and all the way down...

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I watched the game in a bar. We were genuinely asking each other "what's the minute's silence for?"

 

I think it's overused.

 

The deaths in that bar were horrid. But nothing to do with football.

 

About 2,500 people die every year in car smashes in Britain.

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I watched the game in a bar. We were genuinely asking each other "what's the minute's silence for?"

 

I think it's overused.

 

The deaths in that bar were horrid. But nothing to do with football.

 

About 2,500 people die every year in car smashes in Britain.

 

Regardless of that, a call was made for a moment of silence. Not to honour that is a crass lack of respect. Extremely rude. A lack of human solidarity.

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You can say you don't think there should have been a minutes silence 9or a perdio of silence0 and you can argue that point.

 

But that is NOT the same as disrupting it.

 

"No Brits involved". Don't get this. No Brits in the brazil team. Or maybe i am missing something.

 

FWIW, I think period of silence/applause is overused, but that wouldn't make me disrupt it

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You can say you don't think there should have been a minutes silence 9or a perdio of silence0 and you can argue that point.

 

But that is NOT the same as disrupting it.

 

"No Brits involved". Don't get this. No Brits in the brazil team. Or maybe i am missing something.

 

FWIW, I think period of silence/applause is overused, but that wouldn't make me disrupt it

 

'No Brits involved' refers back to a comedy sketch (on Not the Nine o'clock News?) in which a newsreader relates several tragedies worldwide and end every report with this phrase. The inference is that a tragedy does not affect us unless one of 'us' is involved. I'll see if I can dig up the reference.

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No-one is saying it is acceptable to break a minutes silence are they?

 

No but people are confusing two issues.

 

First its wrong to disrupt a minutes silence full stop even if you think there shouldnt be one.

 

The second issue is what should we have minutes silences for? The night club fire in Brazil has nothing to do with football. Not needed in my opinion.

 

I think we reached a tipping point with this when Spurs had a minutes silence when Glen Hoddle's mum died. I sh1t you not.

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I watched the game in a bar. We were genuinely asking each other "what's the minute's silence for?"

 

I think it's overused.

 

The deaths in that bar were horrid. But nothing to do with football.

 

About 2,500 people die every year in car smashes in Britain.

 

Empathy and sympathy for the Nation you are playing against, possibly a statement about solidarity in grief?

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It would have gone like this, the people of Brazil would have expected their biggest institution, the national team, to mark the tragedy as they were playing so soon after it. So the Brazilian FA would have made a request to the FA, who can only respond by saying yes in this case. They couldn't say, no Brits involved, what's it got to do with football, there are too many minutes silence, were they football fans, pointless minutes silence.

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Football's a massive stage, it's not just about whether the tragedy in question is about football, it's about bringing people together to put some thought into those who lost their lives, and simply show some respect and give some time to the families etc. of the victims. It doesn't need to have anything to do with football, and no there are not too many minutes of silence as there's always something for which it could be done.

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'No Brits involved' refers back to a comedy sketch (on Not the Nine o'clock News?) in which a newsreader relates several tragedies worldwide and end every report with this phrase. The inference is that a tragedy does not affect us unless one of 'us' is involved. I'll see if I can dig up the reference.
From memory it was along the lines of "145 people were killed, 6 Britons and 139 non-entities" but it was a long time ago!
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I watched the game in a bar. We were genuinely asking each other "what's the minute's silence for?"

 

I think it's overused.

 

The deaths in that bar were horrid. But nothing to do with football.

 

About 2,500 people die every year in car smashes in Britain.

 

Even though I agree with the argument that minutes silence/minutes applause, black armbands to mark the death of people are overused I don't think there's an argument that this minutes silence was warranted. The tragedy in that nightclub can easily be described as a national drama in Brazil so how is it weird to have a minutes silence when their most important national team plays a match in the following week. The fact that the fire at that nightclub might not have gotten as much attention in the British press doesn't mean this is a significant event in Brazil. Imagine the Brazil FA not granting a minutes silence after the London bombings in 2005 (only 56 deaths, that's not that much is....) because it doesn't have anything to do with football. That would go down well.

 

For me the criteria are quite simple.

* National/local tragedies that affect a community/nation warrant a minutes silence

* If a person with a strong connection to the club/nation pass away the club/nation can decide to have their way of marking this (minutes silence, blackarmbands, etc.) depending on the importance of said person to the club/nation and perhaps also how/when they passed away.

* If someone connected to another club passes away, or someone granny, mother, kid, etc. passes away this is probably a private matter that doesn't have to be marked in the public sphere.

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What annoys me more than anything is that it perpetuates the idea that football supporters are brainless thugs. We all know that there are idiots in every walk of life, but time and time again some drunken chav lets us all down!

 

I doubt that if the same period of silence had been held at Twickenham last week, you would have heard anything other than total silence.

 

I do agree that these 'minutes/periods of silence' are getting too frequent, but in this particular case I think it was fair enough - whether to commerate the Brazilian Club fire (If it had been in the UK, there would have been uproar if the they hadn't done something), or to remember Bobby Moore.

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Not sure if one of the points being made here is about the conduct of England fans specifically (?) but just to highlight that a lot of the shouting on Wednesday night was coming from the Brazil section of the crowd (I sit just above the away section in Club Wembley). Maybe some of their shouting was in reaction to England fan shouts but there was certainly a few unsolicited shouts of "Brazil"

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I nearly turned the game off to be honest.

Wasn't a game I cared about anyway, but FFS, how hard is it to shut up for 60 seconds?

 

In future, we should all just lamp anyone who abuses this sort of thing. That's how you deal with these sort of scumbags - use a language they understand.

Hard to make a noise when you're unconscious! ;)

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'No Brits involved' refers back to a comedy sketch (on Not the Nine o'clock News?) in which a newsreader relates several tragedies worldwide and end every report with this phrase. The inference is that a tragedy does not affect us unless one of 'us' is involved. I'll see if I can dig up the reference.

 

 

I have noticed that this has always been a commonly-used phrase on Swedish TV news, and at first I might have tended to agree, but Swedes...in common with British subjects, are often widely travelled and it can be disturbing for someone to hear of (a) death in another part of the world...especially if you have someone close to you in that region at the time.

 

Sweden always does as much as possible to get a victims remains returned home for burial etc, This was a major issue in the sinking of the ferry Estonia in 1994(?) ...850+ were drowned, and the almost 3000

who perished in the Thailand Tsunami in 2004 (?). I personally knew 5 people who were Tsunami victims, it seemed a lot (at the time)...at least in a country of less than 10 million people.

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Not sure if one of the points being made here is about the conduct of England fans specifically (?) but just to highlight that a lot of the shouting on Wednesday night was coming from the Brazil section of the crowd (I sit just above the away section in Club Wembley). Maybe some of their shouting was in reaction to England fan shouts but there was certainly a few unsolicited shouts of "Brazil"

 

As I understood it the concept of a minutes silence is not part of Brazilian football culture. They did not know what they were doing when interupting the silence. I expect the English voices were telling them to be quiet.

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