The9 Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 Don't you just love it when the forum bully and chief WUM gets it so wrong. "Lock thread" he says . 290 plus posts later it looks as if the OP was correct to raise this subject again. Not sure anything in this thread constitutes "new" though, and about 5% of those posts are by the person who said lock it, so he's obviously not that bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 Thing is, by the time any possible stadium expansion is completed, there is still no guarantee what league we would be in anyway. Even established teams can get relegated. I can't see us getting an average 40,000 attendance, then again, I didn't ever think we'd double our gates when we moved from the Dell. Wolves being the case in point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 Quite. I personally don't see myself living long enough to see a 58k stadium, but CBFry (and a few others maybe) definitely won't. He'll have had an apopalectic, frothing at the mouth fit when the first cranes move in. His last words probably: "utterly ridiculous".... I'm not against stadium expansion sweetheart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 Dunno why it's such a big deal. We're gonna get a few more thousand seats at SMS - so what?! Err, hang on that means 2 hours of gridlock on the roads out of town after a game! Fook that for a game of solders...not needed. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 Usually when I post factual links the thread dies within an hour, so here goes... Average Prem attendances 2011/12 with percentage ground fill and number of ST holders for a bit of Prem context : http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=64079033&postcount=1 And the previous Saintsweb Football League (away) attendance stats thread which is completely irrelevant : http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?35192-Football-League-Away-Support-Stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 I done a quick googe to find out bout our stadium expansion plans and they is being discussed at length on professional architect forum! One of the architects is called "Matthew Le God", he is generally quite pro the expansion, a few of the other architects was not quite so convinced! SCOUSERTOMMY: Could Southampton seriously fill a stadium of that size? MRDDAVIES: No. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1522791 How many other forums is he on trying to promote this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 Usually when I post factual links the thread dies within an hour, so here goes... Average Prem attendances 2011/12 with percentage ground fill and number of ST holders for a bit of Prem context : http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=64079033&postcount=1 Interesting link in the context of this thread. 17th in the Prem, despite it being our first season back in the League for several years, playing good football and investing heavily in the squad, that really suggests the demand isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 Just to throw a spanner in the works for Frank isn't it very well know that The German Model is more to do with the 51% ownership of the club by the fans, and that it's been often mentioned that the owners would raise prices if they could? As for comparisons with Arsenal, they're in one of the biggest metropolises in the world, a city that has a massive transient community and picks up incredibly large amounts of tourist. They're hugely successful, have marketed themselves well as a middle class club which is acceptable for non footballing people to go and watch (and the club has paid the price for this by losing it's soul and culture). Yet.... Still they advertise heavily on the tubes, in the press and on local radio here. So even with all that going for them expansion has been incredibly difficult. Now try that in a small provincial city with little transient community and little reason for tourists to come. Without utterly selling out the club we'll always have a cap, it's the reality of what we are, why this bothers people i don't know, but delusions of grandeur are laughable. Maybe one day, with much more success and seasons of proven demand we could increase, but our maximum (i think) is probably only 40,000 - not taking into account freak games and big clubs. It's nothing to be ashamed of and nothing worth arguing over, besides it's really a very new phenomenon this obsession with attendances (and to a lesser extent size). I remember growing up we were little old Southampton putting the noses of the big clubs out of joint and having fun, and in the 80s success. Why we can't just enjoy what we are i don't know, but it's a symptom of modern society that everything has to be bigger no matter the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 There's no guarantee that safe standing would lead to either significantly increased attendances, that the demand amongst fans is still there or will last beyond the novelty factor, or that standing will lead to any cheaper tickets per se - clubs were glad to be able to charge seating prices to everyone in the early 90s and I doubt they'll be keen to break their pricing structures if safe standing became an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 February, 2013 Share Posted 5 February, 2013 Interesting link in the context of this thread. 17th in the Prem, despite it being our first season back in the League for several years, playing good football and investing heavily in the squad, that really suggests the demand isn't there. Could also be to do with away fans not selling out their section. A bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 Don't you just love it when the forum bully and chief WUM gets it so wrong. "Lock thread" he says . 290 plus posts later it looks as if the OP was correct to raise this subject again. gets what wrong? not sure what your on about fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 Usually when I post factual links the thread dies within an hour, so here goes... Average Prem attendances 2011/12 with percentage ground fill and number of ST holders for a bit of Prem context : http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=64079033&postcount=1 And the previous Saintsweb Football League (away) attendance stats thread which is completely irrelevant : http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?35192-Football-League-Away-Support-Stats Our average % full is even lower than tiny Evertons and one of the lowest in the league. MLG please report to the forum and tell us how this cant be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 Our average % full is even lower than tiny Evertons and one of the lowest in the league. MLG please report to the forum and tell us how this cant be true. http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html Our stadium is 93% full. Everton's is 90%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 (edited) http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html Our stadium is 93% full. Everton's is 90%. Not according to the the other report linked by The9. Who to believe?!!! Edited 6 February, 2013 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 Just to throw a spanner in the works for Frank isn't it very well know that The German Model is more to do with the 51% ownership of the club by the fans, and that it's been often mentioned that the owners would raise prices if they could? Sorry but that does not impact on my argument at all. The clubs may indeed want to put prices up - a sad indicment that the game is so obsessed by money - the German clubs simply dont get the level of TV revenue their counter parts in other leagues do, so their gate income is a higher proportion of total revenues ... They have shown in the last few years that you dont need stupid prem money to put together good sides and develop talent through a very good youth system... their problem is only that once these young players become established and have shown their talent on a European stage, they are off to countries that pay far more in WAGES... and they want to be able to compete.... This is nothing to do with the fact the system works, and allows both a sensible ticketing policy as well as well run clubs financially - and those that want to put prices up merely to shove extra cash in players pockets only need to look at what that sort of 'arms race' has done to the clubs in this country where you now have to pay £20 for a L2 game.... If anything such a pricing policy would be so much easier here, because our TV revenue dwarf's that of most EU leagues and we have more flexibilty if the clubs Chose to use it... greed is such a distorting factor here. The new TV deal starting next season would have been the ideal opportunity for the prem clubs to come together and use their extra cash to make ticketing better - instead the short sightedness will see all this extra cash dissapppear into the pockets of agents and player wages - so NO advantage to clubs at all really as proportionally the gaps get bigger and the difference between the top clubs and the also rans will expand...... and what's worse, that wage inflation filters down the pyramid and before long it will be £30 in L2 to pay those player wages.... Its alll fecked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 Tell you what, just bought QPR tickets With booking fee in block 33 £40.50 a pop Can't see 50k fans paying that I quite agree, a lot of money, something which everyone finds hard to get hold of these days. But, for those that are sceptical about Saints "expanding" to (say) 50000, may I put this forward ... Imagine you are in a Town/City with only ONE Theatre/Cinema, and they book the Hottest Act around, costing £10000 per Gig Problem is, the Venue only has ONE seat ....... So, whoever the Lucky person is, he has to be charged £10000 to get in Cost put you off ??? .... Of course it does But if the Venue had 1000 seats, the charge would be £1000,... still too much ??? ....... how about 10000 seats at £1 ?? More Attractive ?? Now, For a 50000 Stadium, I don't think for one minute that Cortese would structure prices like the above, bur what I DO think is that with extra capacity, it would give him the FLEXIBILITY to offer more "reasonable" ticket pricing He may be "rich" as compared to some on here, but I'm sure he has his finger on the pulse. I'm sure he knows money is tight for most of us. Conversely, if he were to " charge the earth " for tickets at St Mary's then I think he'd be in for a shock, because there ARE limits to how much people actually WILL pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 I find the idea that a stadium tour guide has let slip our plans for a 58K stadium laughable. I find the idea that Cortese must have some plan to make this work - possibly by selling lots of bratwurst and sauerkraut even more laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_DB Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 Could also be to do with away fans not selling out their section. A bit. Wasn't there some palava about corporate seats being taken up and not used earlier in the season? That could factor in to it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 Not according to the the other report linked by The9. Who to believe?!!! Either an official stat company or a fans forum. Tough decision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 I quite agree, a lot of money, something which everyone finds hard to get hold of these days. But, for those that are sceptical about Saints "expanding" to (say) 50000, may I put this forward ... Imagine you are in a Town/City with only ONE Theatre/Cinema, and they book the Hottest Act around, costing £10000 per Gig Problem is, the Venue only has ONE seat ....... So, whoever the Lucky person is, he has to be charged £10000 to get in Cost put you off ??? .... Of course it does But if the Venue had 1000 seats, the charge would be £1000,... still too much ??? ....... how about 10000 seats at £1 ?? More Attractive ?? Now, For a 50000 Stadium, I don't think for one minute that Cortese would structure prices like the above, bur what I DO think is that with extra capacity, it would give him the FLEXIBILITY to offer more "reasonable" ticket pricing He may be "rich" as compared to some on here, but I'm sure he has his finger on the pulse. I'm sure he knows money is tight for most of us. Conversely, if he were to " charge the earth " for tickets at St Mary's then I think he'd be in for a shock, because there ARE limits to how much people actually WILL pay It kind of amuses me that on a fans forum talking about growth in spectator numbers and long term plans and flexible pricing schemes nobody has really commented on the bleeding obvious. Where do new fans come from? Oh sure some drift in to watch games, but us nutjobs, the majority of us maniacs that would pay out 600 quid for a return trip to Wembley or 150 quid for a day trip to Bucharest. We first went to games as Kids. Capture the Kids and you have customers for life. All it needs is a bigger Family Centre and kids for a quid or Teenagers for a Tenner and you have your next yoof in the Northam for 50 years to come. Kick the nippers out of the expensive seats in the Itchen FFS! By which time most of us will be getting OAP concessions anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 It kind of amuses me that on a fans forum talking about growth in spectator numbers and long term plans and flexible pricing schemes nobody has really commented on the bleeding obvious. Where do new fans come from? Oh sure some drift in to watch games, but us nutjobs, the majority of us maniacs that would pay out 600 quid for a return trip to Wembley or 150 quid for a day trip to Bucharest. We first went to games as Kids. Capture the Kids and you have customers for life. All it needs is a bigger Family Centre and kids for a quid or Teenagers for a Tenner and you have your next yoof in the Northam for 50 years to come. Kick the nippers out of the expensive seats in the Itchen FFS! By which time most of us will be getting OAP concessions anyway That's what I said Phil. It is currently £21.50 for an under 17s ticket for the QPR match (including booking tax). I got into saints by going to matches with my mates with I was 12 or 13. It was £2 to get into the Milton and we all went on the front row. It was affordable, I paid with my own money and didn't even really need my permission (half the time I said I was somewhere else). I had been to the odd match before that with family but the real enjoyment came by going with my mates and being with the lads. What are the chances of this happening now? The only way young teenagers could go now is if a parent is willing to stump up the cash for them and probably go with them - so another £32. If teen tickets were a fiver and all in one section, kids for a quid in the family section, the future would be secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 £21.50 for a kids ticket...? Jesus christ. That's the sort of money you'd spend on your kid for a special treat/occasion, not as a weekly event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 £21.50 for a kids ticket...? Jesus christ. That's the sort of money you'd spend on your kid for a special treat/occasion, not as a weekly event. Exactly. Well it was an under 17s ticket, I expect there is a cheaper one for under 10s or something but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 SEVEN pages already ......is this thread ...still going? There must have been enough sweat and energy spent on it to build an extension by now. my make in this is ....sell out games and get new record gates every match.....and a list of disappointed fans who couldn't get tickets....and then it becomes a talking point ..until then - no go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 February, 2013 Share Posted 6 February, 2013 £21.50 for a kids ticket...? Jesus Christ. That's the sort of money you'd spend on your kid for a special treat/occasion, not as a weekly event. well ..fortnightly, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Reading looking to expand to 38,000... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21365929 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Turkish reading going mental as we speak, their Shane Long le god basking in his glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Reading looking to expand to 38,000... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21365929 They'll just get more neutrals to go there that can't be bothered to watch their actual teams. Good idea as it makes more money. I do agree completely with Tokyo. If tickets are cheap as kids, you get hooked. Not even just to the club, that comes with the more games you go to. But as a kid as just something to do, with your mates, which you love. Before you know it you're a 'fan'. Get them young you have them for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Reading looking to expand to 38,000... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21365929 Can't even fill it out now. Will be hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 They'll just get more neutrals to go there that can't be bothered to watch their actual teams. Good idea as it makes more money. I do agree completely with Tokyo. If tickets are cheap as kids, you get hooked. Not even just to the club, that comes with the more games you go to. But as a kid as just something to do, with your mates, which you love. Before you know it you're a 'fan'. Get them young you have them for life. Exactly! It is like when crack dealers give out free samples. It is wasn't for the £2 tickets and the going every other week with my mates when I was young, I wouldn't be paying £35 plus another £30 in petrol these days. Get them in - get them hooked, NC should have this as his motto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Can't even fill it out now. Will be hilarious. Yes but just imagine what would happen if they had a year or two of top ten finishes, their attendances would skyrocket. Maybe 38,000 isn't big enough, and anyone who thinks it is simply has an Elm Park mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Yes but just imagine what would happen if they had a year or two of top ten finishes, their attendances would skyrocket. Maybe 38,000 isn't big enough, and anyone who thinks it is simply has an Elm Park mentality. ALthough Readings capacity is 24,000 and their average crowd is slightly below this they are held back by their capacity. Their average would have been higher had they had a bigger staidum as they would definitely have sold tickets for the big games and also have a huge catchment area which takes in most of the midlands, thames valley and large parts of London. Theirr stadium is often 95% full so they need to expand. If they had had the same success as Man United and investment as Man City they would have got crowds of around 50000. Everton only get 36000 on average in a 40000 stadium so Reading would undoubtedly get close to that if they had a bigger stadiumd. In fact it's arguable that they have more match going fans than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 I find the idea that a stadium tour guide has let slip our plans for a 58K stadium laughable. I find the idea that Cortese must have some plan to make this work - possibly by selling lots of bratwurst and sauerkraut even more laughable. I find the idea of not taking Cortese at his word laughable. I find the idea that you think the opposite about him is even more laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 ALthough Readings capacity is 24,000 and their average crowd is slightly below this they are held back by their capacity. Their average would have been higher had they had a bigger staidum as they would definitely have sold tickets for the big games and also have a huge catchment area which takes in most of the midlands, thames valley and large parts of London. Theirr stadium is often 95% full so they need to expand. If they had had the same success as Man United and investment as Man City they would have got crowds of around 50000. Everton only get 36000 on average in a 40000 stadium so Reading would undoubtedly get close to that if they had a bigger stadiumd. In fact it's arguable that they have more match going fans than them. Anyone with half a brain will look at that and laugh. Anyone with a whole brain will laugh at the kind of ****e you can almost argue with statistics. The rest of us will just laugh at you putting forward a crap quantiative reason after slamming frank's version which make more sense and actually work when you analyse statistics. Also, you have been very hypocritical quoting 95% as "need to expand" but slamming our own attendances which are largely the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Anyone with half a brain will look at that and laugh. Anyone with a whole brain will laugh at the kind of ****e you can almost argue with statistics. The rest of us will just laugh at you putting forward a crap quantiative reason after slamming frank's version which make more sense and actually work when you analyse statistics. Also, you have been very hypocritical quoting 95% as "need to expand" but slamming our own attendances which are largely the same. sorry, what's funny about it? Are you saying Reading couldn't get a higher average crowd with a bigger stadium? How do you know if they didn't have a bit more success and were 5th like them they couldn't match Evertons crowds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 My deep love for Reading has just been taken to a whole new level. Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Turkish reading going mental as we speak, their Shane Long le god basking in his glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right sider Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Most people in Reading support Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Most people in Reading support Chelsea. They would be Reading fans if they had Chelsea's level of investment and success. Also as a lot of these Chelsea fans go to Reading anyway don't you think even more would go if they had a bigger stadium and were more successful? It's arguable Reading could have more match going fans than Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 They would be Reading fans if they had Chelsea's level of investment and success. Also as a lot of these Chelsea fans go to Reading anyway don't you think even more would go if they had a bigger stadium and were more successful? It's arguable Reading could have more match going fans than Chelsea. I know loads of Reading fans who would definitely go to the Madjeski now, but most think they probably wouldn't get a ticket so don't bother trying. A 38,000 seater stadium would see them flooding in. But only at £12 a seat though. Well, they might pay £18 for a really good spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardustonmyfeet Posted 7 February, 2013 Share Posted 7 February, 2013 Either an official stat company or a fans forum. Tough decision! Allow me to make that decision for you. Whichever one produces gems such as Carrow Road's attendance averaging at 102.3% capacity... that's definitely the one to pay attention to. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 9 February, 2013 Share Posted 9 February, 2013 After tonight, with 31,700 at SMS now desperate to come back for more, I would suggest that expansion is now a must. Ground capacity is the only thing holding this club back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 9 February, 2013 Share Posted 9 February, 2013 After tonight, with 31,700 at SMS now desperate to come back for more, I would suggest that expansion is now a must. Ground capacity is the only thing holding this club back. To what? I'd say 39k max atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 9 February, 2013 Share Posted 9 February, 2013 To what? I'd say 39k max atm I would totally agree. 39k would do us nice at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 9 February, 2013 Share Posted 9 February, 2013 Those hordes of people trying to get tickets for todays match but failing, they will be delighted by the stadium expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 10 February, 2013 Share Posted 10 February, 2013 Those hordes of people trying to get tickets for todays match but failing, they will be delighted by the stadium expansion. You are probably correct. It would be strange if only 31,700 pople wanted to go to the match. I am sure that we would could have sold more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 10 February, 2013 Share Posted 10 February, 2013 You are probably correct. It would be strange if only 31,700 pople wanted to go to the match. I am sure that we would could have sold more. 15000 more at least. That much is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 10 February, 2013 Share Posted 10 February, 2013 Bald men arguing over hair straighteners. Or perhaps more accurately, a load of people arguing interminably about something that probably won't be proved for another x years. Put your money where your mouth is. 2018. Five years from now. Two questions. The maximum capacity of the stadium. The average home attendance. I know it's a bit of a wait, and I'll admit, I'm kicking the issue into the long grass AND putting people on the spot simultaneously. "Price Is Right" rules. Closest person to either figure wins, but if you go over, you've lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 10 February, 2013 Share Posted 10 February, 2013 So the only game where it's officially sold out and actually looked sold out is against the Prem Champions...doesn't suggest expansion is urgent. For where we are right now, St Marys is the perfect amount I'd say. However I do believe we could sell 40k tickets if we were in the top half regularly (and tickets were reasonably priced!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 10 February, 2013 Share Posted 10 February, 2013 15000 more at least. That much is clear. 15,000 is a bit too many at this tage. Expand the Kingsland. Get another 8k seats in there and then lets see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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