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St marys expansion


saintdaz

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Turkish - fair play to you, you aint interested in any sensible discussion on how it works anyway. You also lack complete self awareness which is actually quite funny - you have a pop at me for 'mentioning Germany enough times', yet you attempt to convince others...constantly with your persistant negative sensationalist 'headlines'.

 

You may or may not have noticed that this model is actually already in place - we have different concessions and different areas of the ground have varying price points - the German model is an extension of this with a BROADER range - I am sure someone of your astute business accumen will have noticed this already, and what's more appreciate that the pricing scenario modelling that allows this broader range yet does not simply maintain, but increases revenues based in increased numbers is fairly complex - but works. Failure to acknowledge this suggests at best a somewhat narrow mind WUM mentality at worst a complete inabilty to grasp what is a simple business concept.

 

There you go again. :rolleyes:

 

Anyway, i dont want to engage in sensbile debate because clearly my idea of doing what Spurs & Arsenal have done is idiotic. Why wait and see if we have demand which means we need to expand when we can spend £40m now and hope to sell the tickets at a third of the price they are currently set at? i'm just amazed no one else has taken up this genius idea.

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You would have different areas costing different amounts. Didn't you just buy a ticket for £40 today?

 

so we already have a version of Franks German model and we still cant sell 32,000 ticket every week. Interestingly the areas often empty when we dont sell out are behind the goal and in the corners, the cheaper areas. this idea looks more ridiculous by the second.

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so we already have a version of Franks German model and we still cant sell 32,000 ticket every week. Interestingly the areas often empty when we dont sell out are behind the goal and in the corners, the cheaper areas. this idea looks more ridiculous by the second.

 

.... you dont get it we know... you dont need to keep banging on about it...

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so we already have a version of Franks German model and we still cant sell 32,000 ticket every week. Interestingly the areas often empty when we dont sell out are behind the goal and in the corners, the cheaper areas. this idea looks more ridiculous by the second.

 

#Devil Advocate

 

Then surely by implementing the more extreme concessional model Frank is suggesting could facilitate easier filling of those areas by making them more attractive?

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#Devil Advocate

 

Then surely by implementing the more extreme concessional model Frank is suggesting could facilitate easier filling of those areas by making them more attractive?

 

we struggle to sell the cheaper tickets for lots of games now colin, Frank is on about having 25,000 more of them. Brilliant idea isn't it.

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we struggle to sell the cheaper tickets for lots of games now colin, Frank is on about having 25,000 more of them. Brilliant idea isn't it.

 

Yes, I know. But by making them even cheaper would there be any possible benefit purely in terms of getting numbers in?

 

The family end I sit in is usually pretty packed, the most heavily 'conceded' (if that's a good way of putting it) part of the stadium. The main areas that seem empty are on the edges of the Itchen/Chapel stands. A better concessional rate there may make them more attractive.

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#Devil Advocate

 

Then surely by implementing the more extreme concessional model Frank is suggesting could facilitate easier filling of those areas by making them more attractive?

 

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! FFS Turks has already explained. There is only a set number of people that are interested in watching saints. They can all afford tickets as they are priced now and if they were going to come, they would already be attending the matches and they are not! There is absolutely no way we as a club could attract more people to games. We are at 100% potential right here right now and that it final. Franko is an absolute idiot if he things differently.

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we struggle to sell the cheaper tickets for lots of games now colin, Frank is on about having 25,000 more of them. Brilliant idea isn't it.

 

 

Guess that entire thread with loads moaning about not being able to afford to go was all aload of Bulls hitters then? And in reality football is perfectly priced and we simply attract our actuall fan base... tell which is it, we dont have enough fans right now but teh price is right, or we have have more fans but some simply can not afford to... which is it?, your argumnet hangs on being able to define this perfectly and accurately....

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Yes, I know. But by making them even cheaper would there be any possible benefit purely in terms of getting numbers in?

 

The family end I sit in is usually pretty packed, the most heavily 'conceded' (if that's a good way of putting it) part of the stadium, the main areas that seem empty area on the edges of the Itchen/Chapel stands. A better concessional rate there may make them more attractive.

 

why not do it now? Why wait until we've spent £40m on expanding the stadium to slash, err i mean, offer cheaper pricing?

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and we have no demand at the moment. we dont have a waiting list. We dont even filll the stadium we have for a lot of games. When we do then we can expand otherwise talk about building 25,000 more seats and then slashing prices to sell them by hoping to attract new fans is utterly ridiculous.

 

Sorry how do you know the demand isn't there?

I am not suggesting we could fill a stadium of the size mentioned but do you know for certain that if we expanded to say 35k the Average attendance over the season would stay the same?

Due to filling it at the high demand games (whether with Saints fans, Neutrals or away fans) the average would rise. Therefore there is no need to drop prices to make the average rise.

However my point is that as you increase access to the high profile games you will naturally capture some of those people for other games too. At the moment a casual fan who only wants to go for Man U, Arsenal etc maybe can't get tickets as so doesn't bother. if it was easier they may attend, enjoy and then go again at a less glamourous game.

 

Why the obsession with filling the ground? The requirement for a payback is more people attending over the season at the same price?

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why not do it now?

 

A good question. One I couldn't answer. At a guess though I would say it may be a calculated compromise between ultimate takings and bodies on seats. (For example, selling 100 tickets at 25 quid is more appealing then selling 125 tickets at 15 quid.) The club may consider the prices to be about right all round. Coupled with a large shrinking of the family stand this year compared to last I believe there is an attempt to maximise money coming in as a priority ahead of getting bums on seats.

Edited by Colinjb
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Irrespective of whether the expansion happens or not, do we even have an extra 28000 fans or for that matter, floating fans to fill the ground at £20 a pop? Unlikely. What about £15, £10 a go? Still unlikely. If we expand, will we even see a significant reduction in matchday prices? Unlikely again... Maybe some, but not a huge amount. I'm sure.

 

We are, for all great football, just three points from the relegation zone and could end up back in the NPC with a wolves-sized problem for all our lofty aspirations.

 

Yes, we have potential but we are still sizeably behind in terms of fanbase size compared to the likes of Sunderland, Villa, let alone Everton or Newcastle.

 

Let's just try and stay in the Premier League for a couple of seasons first....

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Let's just try and stay in the Premier League for a couple of seasons first....

its madness...as soon as you remind people how poor we relatively are in the league...you get told to shut up, we are better than half the teams above us and we are on the march to europe next season...

 

when infact, we are in a very real danger of going down

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Sorry how do you know the demand isn't there?

I am not suggesting we could fill a stadium of the size mentioned but do you know for certain that if we expanded to say 35k the Average attendance over the season would stay the same?

Due to filling it at the high demand games (whether with Saints fans, Neutrals or away fans) the average would rise. Therefore there is no need to drop prices to make the average rise.

However my point is that as you increase access to the high profile games you will naturally capture some of those people for other games too. At the moment a casual fan who only wants to go for Man U, Arsenal etc maybe can't get tickets as so doesn't bother. if it was easier they may attend, enjoy and then go again at a less glamourous game.

 

Why the obsession with filling the ground? The requirement for a payback is more people attending over the season at the same price?

 

How long is our waiting list for season ticket? How many games have we sold out this season? What is our average crowd?

 

Of course we could fill a 36,000 stadium for games against the Elite, but does selling out 5 or 6 games a season warrant a multimillion pound investment?

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A good question. One I couldn't answer. At a guess though I would say it may be a calculated compromise between ultimate takings and bodies on seats. (For example, selling 100 tickets at 25 quid is more appealing then selling 125 tickets at 15 quid.) The club may consider the prices to be about right all round. Coupled with a large shrinking of the family stand this year compared to last I believe there is an attempt to maximise money coming in as a priority ahead of getting bums on seats.

 

So why do people think Cortese would spend £20m for example adding on 6,000 seats to then sell them at £20 a ticket, when he could sell 32,000 at £35 a ticket?

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Guess that entire thread with loads moaning about not being able to afford to go was all aload of Bulls hitters then? And in reality football is perfectly priced and we simply attract our actuall fan base... tell which is it' date=' we dont have enough fans right now but teh price is right, or we have have more fans but some simply can not afford to... which is it?, your argumnet hangs on being able to define this perfectly and accurately....[/quote']

 

Ticket prices are too expensive. they'll only come down if people stop buying them. This doesn't mean our great businessman chairman is going to spend tens of millions of pounds then reduce ticket prices so everyone can get in as cheaply as possible.

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So why do people think Cortese would spend £20m for example adding on 6,000 seats to then sell them at £20 a ticket, when he could sell 32,000 at £35 a ticket?

 

On that basis alone, it wouldn't make any sense. But there may be other ticket pricing models available (as Frank is suggesting) that could make it sensible..... assuming of course that there truly would be the take up for the tickets in the first place.

 

It's a delicate argument. As I suggested earlier in the thread, expansion for me right now would not be sensible.

 

Thinking in longer terms, ticket prices are being increasingly marginalised as a source of income for top flight clubs. It would be interesting to see what real difference a few extra thousand seats would make in the context of % turnover for the club.

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its madness...as soon as you remind people how poor we relatively are in the league...you get told to shut up, we are better than half the teams above us and we are on the march to europe next season...

 

when infact, we are in a very real danger of going down

 

 

I do agree that we are far, far better than the likes of the woeful Villa and QPR, pluckily annoying Reading, Wigan and probably Norwich and a couple of others but the truth is, we don't have the points to justify it. I've watched all of the teams this year and we definitely should be higher as we are clearly at home technically in the Prem, maybe even in the top half BUT the fact remains that we are still very much in the mix for relegation. A couple of wins or losses and the perspective could swing either way.

 

Sustained success will bring in new fans, competitive pricing will bring in new and returning fans but we aren't even an established Premier League team yet, let alone a successful, European chasing one. Crazy.

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On that basis alone, it wouldn't make any sense. But there may be other ticket pricing models available (as Frank is suggesting) that could make it sensible..... assuming of course that there truly would be the take up for the tickets in the first place.

 

It's a delicate argument. As I suggested earlier in the thread, expansion for me right now would not be sensible.

well, if you have a few thousand tickst at silly prices...like £15 as suggested (which again, is 25% less than the same ticket to get into plymouth argyle at the foot of league 2)....then you will have to cut the price of ST in order to get the required amount

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How long is our waiting list for season ticket? How many games have we sold out this season? What is our average crowd?

 

Of course we could fill a 36,000 stadium for games against the Elite, but does selling out 5 or 6 games a season warrant a multimillion pound investment?

 

Average attendance is 30,318 and 92.7% of capacity.

 

This is in our first season back in the division with little expectation of anything other than a relegation scrap.

 

If we were top half it is not unreasonable to expect greater demand. however with very little capacity to satisfy that demand. I can't see how you cannot see that if our chairman honestly believes we will be more successful in the future then there is the support to allow expansion?

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Average attendance is over 30,000 and 92.7% of capacity.

 

This is in our first season back in the division with little expectation of anything other than a relegation scrap.

 

If we were top half it is not unreasonable to expect greater demand. however with very little capacity to satisfy that demand. I can't see how you cannot see that if our chairman honestly believes we will be more successful in the future then there is the support to allow expansion?

 

No you cant see it because i haven't said it and i dont think it. That's what happens when you dont read a whole thread.

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So why do people think Cortese would spend £20m for example adding on 6,000 seats to then sell them at £20 a ticket, when he could sell 32,000 at £35 a ticket?

 

If he adds 6000 seats at £20m and the average rises by only 3000 that equates to a return at £35 of an extra £2m in gate receipts?

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Ok so you do think expansion is an option just not 58k?

I think any sensible option would be to do it a stand at a time...assuming the itchen would not be done......

if we stay up that is...then every 2-3 years do a stand...IF the demand grows with the capacity increase enough

 

 

however, we have to stay up yet...which is a toughie as it is

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Ok so you do think expansion is an option just not 58k?

 

If we sell out St Marys consistently (ie for more games than just the top 4-6 clubs) for a couple of season and have a proven demand for it then yes, it's totally an option. not 58k but maybe 48-40k.

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On that basis alone, it wouldn't make any sense. But there may be other ticket pricing models available (as Frank is suggesting) that could make it sensible..... assuming of course that there truly would be the take up for the tickets in the first place.

 

It's a delicate argument. As I suggested earlier in the thread, expansion for me right now would not be sensible.

 

Thinking in longer terms, ticket prices are being increasingly marginalised as a source of income for top flight clubs. It would be interesting to see what real difference a few extra thousand seats would make in the context of % turnover for the club.

 

This season Ticket revenues will probably be around 12-13 mil - as aproportion of the total revenue of inexcess of 50mil, it still represents around 20-25% of revenue. to have any significant impact on revenue, you almost need to double capacity and sell out at the same price point - This will not have escaped NCs notice.... so if he is serious about expanding to 40k or so (a more realistic figure than the 20k Turks like to presume we are all going on about), he must be thinking 1 of two things:

 

1. He believes that with a top six place we will sell out 40Kevery home game at current prices believing success alone willl drive an increased demand form teh middle income bracket... in which case he is in for a nasty surprise

 

or

 

2. He undersatnd that its also about what it says about the club, the kudos etc and possibly the abilty to be able to charge £60 a ticket on a top European night, but offer a more broader range for league games etc... if he is serious about filling it.

 

There are multiple scenarios that would need to be considered and the biggest one is that of what it would cost - throughout I have gone on the assumption that Markus left some cash for this so commercial loans would not be necessary - if not, and a commercial loan would be necessary, then quite rightly, it makes no sense.

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I done a quick googe to find out bout our stadium expansion plans and they is being discussed at length on professional architect forum! One of the architects is called "Matthew Le God", he is generally quite pro the expansion, a few of the other architects was not quite so convinced!

 

SCOUSERTOMMY: Could Southampton seriously fill a stadium of that size?

MRDDAVIES: No.

 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1522791

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I done a quick googe to find out bout our stadium expansion plans and they is being discussed at length on professional architect forum! One of the architects is called "Matthew Le God", he is generally quite pro the expansion, a few of the other architects was not quite so convinced!

 

SCOUSERTOMMY: Could Southampton seriously fill a stadium of that size?

MRDDAVIES: No.

 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1522791

Matt Le God is taking the fight to them......ave it

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Haha that's amazing bear. He loves a cut and paste doesn't he. Soon you will be on UFC sites with 'pro fighters' called Turkish and storytime offering everyone out for fights. I even found someone called Bearsy posting on mums net asking for tips on breast feeding with photos.

 

Without doubt the best post on this thread :lol:

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If we sell out St Marys consistently (ie for more games than just the top 4-6 clubs) for a couple of season and have a proven demand for it then yes, it's totally an option. not 58k but maybe 48-40k.

 

Ok Cheers we are on the same page but I don't believe waiting for a couple of seasons to see the demand is a great idea. You have to have faith in what you are doing and plan for the expansion now to exploit any success. Stadium expansion will not be a two minute job so planning needs to start now.

If the plan was to spend £15m on a training ground with no obvious and definate return on that expenditure, spending the same or more on the stadium expansion with an almost guarenteed return is a no brainer surely? (obviously staying in the premier league is crucial to that though!)

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As others say, let's try to stay in the PL before worrying about a bigger stadium.

 

You can't run a business like that? You need to have a plan to move forward, it may include different scenarios for staying up or going down but you need to look longer term than waiting until May to see what divsion we are in?

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You can't run a business like that? You need to have a plan to move forward, it may include different scenarios for staying up or going down but you need to look longer term than waiting until May to see what divsion we are in?

well, if we go down, we wont be extending SMS...and more than likely, wont be coming back straight away to the prem

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acid test

 

home game v QPR goes on general sale tomorrow.....it is without a doubt a monumental game....if we get a point either against city or newcastle...with 3 v QPR...we could have one foot in the prem next season

 

surely, this will be sold out by the weekend...if we have 25k extra fans waiting to get into to see the saints...

 

Would that be a certain former fans favourite's first return to SMS?

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But if we stay up and win the league we will! we can all do hypothetical!!!

lets walk before we go on about super stadiums and champions league football..which is quite frankly, insane, whilst we have won 1 in 9 and still only 3 points ahead of villa who are easily one of the worst teams to grace this league in years

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lets walk before we go on about super stadiums and champions league football..which is quite frankly, insane, whilst we have won 1 in 9 and still only 3 points ahead of villa who are easily one of the worst teams to grace this league in years

 

You are right..one game at a time and all that....

 

I don't know if we will stay up that's in the balance right now but for the first time in a long long time we are a club seemingly on the up. I would like to think that relegation may be a set back but would not change the long term plans for the club.

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You are right..one game at a time and all that....

 

I don't know if we will stay up that's in the balance right now but for the first time in a long long time we are a club seemingly on the up. I would like to think that relegation may be a set back but would not change the long term plans for the club.

I really get the feeling that the club, fan base in general seem to be taking staying up for granted...

 

you only have to look on here...and its full of talk about how much better we are than half a dozen teams who are well above us and have been all season..

we are not very good in term of results...3 home wins and let god knows how many points go all season.......

 

yet, lets talk about champions league super stadiums

 

seems utterly odd

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I really get the feeling that the club, fan base in general seem to be taking staying up for granted...

 

you only have to look on here...and its full of talk about how much better we are than half a dozen teams who are well above us and have been all season..

we are not very good in term of results...3 home wins and let god knows how many points go all season.......

 

yet, lets talk about champions league super stadiums

 

seems utterly odd

 

but isn't that what makes footy so great that you can dream your club will be in a cup final or higher in the league challenging for titles?

 

Personally I think we have to catch 1 or 2 of the teams above us to be sure of staying up as those below will have a few results go for them and we could be in serious trouble....

 

Positives...Versus first half of the season we are up on points gained from the teams we have played twice.

negatives...We still need to get past 40 points and that means getting 3 points sometimes

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Something about having more fans than Everton, a catchment area that covers 3/4s of the globe and man walking on the moon.

 

Lock thread.

 

Don't you just love it when the forum bully and chief WUM gets it so wrong.

 

"Lock thread" he says . 290 plus posts later it looks as if the OP was correct to raise this subject again.

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Thing is, by the time any possible stadium expansion is completed, there is still no guarantee what league we would be in anyway. Even established teams can get relegated.

I can't see us getting an average 40,000 attendance, then again, I didn't ever think we'd double our gates when we moved from the Dell.

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Quite. I personally don't see myself living long enough to see a 58k stadium, but CBFry (and a few others maybe) definitely won't. He'll have had an apopalectic, frothing at the mouth fit when the first cranes move in. His last words probably: "utterly ridiculous"....

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