St marys expansion

[Turkish]

I think you are confusing the situation and mixing two seperate points again Turks - NORMAL business practice would as you say suggest waiting... and waiting .. to see if you can grow demand purel on success and have 1000s on ST waiting lists will to pay £700-£800 for an ST... I agree that this logic, albeit oversimplied apears rational and in line with traditianl business thinking.

 

BUT ask any entrepeur and they will tell you that to be successful you have to think differently and for some businesses - not all (so please dont qote your Apple Ipad example again - that is about brand value and a different Kettle of fish) you have the opportunity to DRIVE demand, not through brand appeal, or advertsing, but through expanding accessibilty - If you are looking for a business example, unlike Apple who happily maintain high price to maintain brand value, knowing its also at a price point that is obtainable but not cheap - think Henry Ford - turning pipe dream aspiration into affordable product for the masses by applying new manafacturing techniques to achieve a price point that most could afford.

 

The FSF, the Government and half the fans on here have been lamenting the fact that football is no longer affordable to the working class masses. A good business man wil lok at that and think: and think ... and think about HOW he could tap back into that market segment - a segment that is loyal, spends a fair few quid on beer, foot etc... how many are there, how many kids OAPs that would all spend money if only it were affordable... So you look at all models in all markets and see what you can learn - now it may be that it woudl not work because you are fighting against a culture that would need to shift.... but simply dismissing it out of hand is possibly why you do what you do, and NC is possibly slightly better remunerated... dont you think?

 

As much as you might not want to believe it Francis, the whole culture of football in England isn't going to change so Saints can fill a staidum that is too big for us. As for your enterpreurer nonsense, you've also got the opportunity to complete f*ck a club up by building a stadium far, far bigger than they ever want or need. Just ask Darlington fans.

[damers]

If the idea is to challenge Man U and Arsenal I am sure Cortese would be thinking of increasing prices not reducing them, how much we're the tickets Man City sent back, £62 if memory serves me right! More like increasing by a 3rd not reducing!

[Frank's cousin]

As much as you might not want to believe it Francis, the whole culture of football in England isn't going to change so Saints can fill a staidum that is too big for us. As for your enterpreurer nonsense, you've also got the opportunity to complete f*ck a club up by building a stadium far, far bigger than they ever want or need. Just ask Darlington fans.

 

And you believe Saints would build something we do not need? No due diligence, no strategic planning, contingency plannig etc? We have always only bene talking hyperthetically and that is what you dont see (or refuse to show to keep the thread going...and going...) You think there would not be a thorough and far more indepth analysis than anything we can think of done in advance of any such major investment?

 

OK hyperthetical question: how do you think the club/saints would be perceived by the rest of football if say we build 48k capacity AND did go against the pricing policy in this country and adopted a German type model - would we be applauded by fan groups or laughed at as naive and stupid (assuming teh cost of this is covered by Markus;'s cash so no commercial loans to worry about)? How many do you think we could get if a 16yo could get in for £12-15 and our average adult price was £25 or less - would you expect more attending? or less attending because we had undermined the 'brand value'....

[Thedelldays]

And you believe Saints would build something we do not need? No due diligence, no strategic planning, contingency plannig etc? We have always only bene talking hyperthetically and that is what you dont see (or refuse to show to keep the thread going...and going...) You think there would not be a thorough and far more indepth analysis than anything we can think of done in advance of any such major investment?

 

OK hyperthetical question: how do you think the club/saints would be perceived by the rest of football if say we build 48k capacity AND did go against the pricing policy in this country and adopted a German type model - would we be applauded by fan groups or laughed at as naive and stupid (assuming teh cost of this is covered by Markus;'s cash so no commercial loans to worry about)? How many do you think we could get if a 16yo could get in for £12-15 and our average adult price was £25 or less - would you expect more attending? or less attending because we had undermined the 'brand value'....

so, we have gone from £12 a ticket to £25 a ticket...

 

roughly about the same to watch Bristol Rovers....or swindon town

 

again...it aint going to happen...no matter how many bright ideas you come up with..unless the whole of football in this country changes..we wont be charging £25 for a full individual adult ticket for a premier league game..

 

we may be lucky to see a price freeze next season (maybe even a £1 cut) with the new TV deal...if we break a habit of a life time and win a game or three

[Dr Who?]

Prices will continue to rise... Sad but true.

[Sour Mash]

And you believe Saints would build something we do not need? No due diligence, no strategic planning, contingency plannig etc? We have always only bene talking hyperthetically and that is what you dont see (or refuse to show to keep the thread going...and going...) You think there would not be a thorough and far more indepth analysis than anything we can think of done in advance of any such major investment?

 

OK hyperthetical question: how do you think the club/saints would be perceived by the rest of football if say we build 48k capacity AND did go against the pricing policy in this country and adopted a German type model - would we be applauded by fan groups or laughed at as naive and stupid (assuming teh cost of this is covered by Markus;'s cash so no commercial loans to worry about)? How many do you think we could get if a 16yo could get in for £12-15 and our average adult price was £25 or less - would you expect more attending? or less attending because we had undermined the 'brand value'....

You haven't explained - why would we do that?

[bender]

Whenever we do sell out, its not as if the tickets go the minute they're on sale. For example, we`ll sell out City at home but only towards the latter stages of this week.

[Saint-Fred]

Given the DVD, the rumours and the tour guide etc it is obvious there is some plan to expand at some time in the future.

So why do so many people get so worked up about this not being practical every time expansion is raised?

[krissyboy31]

Whenever we do sell out, its not as if the tickets go the minute they're on sale. For example, we`ll sell out City at home but only towards the latter stages of this week.

 

Southampton FC ‏@SouthamptonFC

With regular seating now sold out, only hospitality remains for the visit of @MCFC

[Mouldy Coat]

West ham plan to sell out the Olympic stadium by kids going for free....

[Sour Mash]

Given the DVD, the rumours and the tour guide etc it is obvious there is some plan to expand at some time in the future.

So why do so many people get so worked up about this not being practical every time expansion is raised?

Well explain how it is practical?

[Turkish]

And you believe Saints would build something we do not need? No due diligence, no strategic planning, contingency plannig etc? We have always only bene talking hyperthetically and that is what you dont see (or refuse to show to keep the thread going...and going...) You think there would not be a thorough and far more indepth analysis than anything we can think of done in advance of any such major investment?

 

OK hyperthetical question: how do you think the club/saints would be perceived by the rest of football if say we build 48k capacity AND did go against the pricing policy in this country and adopted a German type model - would we be applauded by fan groups or laughed at as naive and stupid (assuming teh cost of this is covered by Markus;'s cash so no commercial loans to worry about)? How many do you think we could get if a 16yo could get in for £12-15 and our average adult price was £25 or less - would you expect more attending? or less attending because we had undermined the 'brand value'....

 

I'm not really quite sure what you're banging on about now. Are we charging £12 or £25? Are we talking hypothetical or did you not read my post about how i think Saints and any sensible business would plan before spending tens of millions of pounds to make sure that wasn't money down the drain? I think you need to work out what you are on about and then come back with a comprehensible point, or if all else fails mention Germany again.

[RobM]

The time to expand the stadium is when the current capacity is consistently limiting our potential income. Until that is the case, adding more empty seats alongside the existing empty seats isn't going to achieve anything.

[Turkish]

The time to expand the stadium is when the current capacity is limiting our potential income. Until that is the case, adding more empty seats alongside the existing empty seats isn't going to achieve anything.

 

You'd think it wouldn't be so difficult to understand wouldn't you.

[RobM]

You'd think it wouldn't be so difficult to understand wouldn't you.

 

Seems simple to me. I added a word in before you quoted me though - consistently. One-off games being a sell-out has been the norm for a while, but the norm is having empty seats. I don't see why we would need more.

[aintforever]

If Cortese is planning it then you can guarantee there will be commercial sense behind it, he's not going to do it for a laugh.

[suewhistle]

The thing that is just so pathetic on here at times' date=' is that the WUMs want it both ways - complaining like moaning granies that football is pricig out what is in their opinion the 'traditional' fan (a transient thing anyway), yet belittle any suggestion that a revamp of pricing culture would be needed to adress this... lose the fricken will to live discussing this...[/quote']

 

The other thing that gets me is are the dogmatic statements that "it's not going to happen". Now 58k seems to me unlikely but there's no doubt that expansion has been and is being considered. "The tickets will never be £12 / £25 [whatever]"... How do you know? They were £20 at Wigan, weren't they, and I got the impression there was quite a Saints walk up on the day with the cash entrance they had. Why ignore the German experience?

 

I'm probably moving back to the UK this year, but the cost of a season ticket, on a limited income and with restricted opportunities of earning more, is something I might not stretch to. There must be many for whom cost is a consideration at both ends of the age spectrum and with all the poorly paid and part-time work there is around at the moment. Pricing points are important too, and somebody who might stretch to £25 might not at £35, or go to far fewer games. I'm sure there's plenty of number crunching going on at the moment and I'm not going to assume anything either way until I here it officially.

[Frank's cousin]

You haven't explained - why would we do that?

 

Ok - first up I am not saying will, second if you go back to my original question it was asking what IS Cortese thinking in terms of how he would fill a 48k stadium IF and that a big IF he is really thinking about stadium expansion.

 

But I actualy find this an interesting Di emma and a nice distraction form th work I should be doing so happy to keep going

 

First up lets make some assumptions because this gets way to complaced if we have to factor in commercial rate loans and debt repayment - so lets assume NC has acces sto say 50mil in a trust left by Markus that can only be used for infrastructure development. (I know its pure speculation, but remember I am trying to figure out what might be driving this from from NCs perspective)

 

1. Assumes he wants to push on and see Saints achieve a 'BIgger club'

 

To do this we need to first be successful on the pitch - that means prem survival, consolidation and progression to the top 6 - lets assume that happens

It means regular European football to become a household footballing name outside of the SO post code

It means improving our status within the game and a large empty stadium will not do that - for that w eneed to fill it.

 

So the first question is, would we ever fill a 48 seater regularly based on footballing success alone?

 

I dont think we would because currently I believe our attendance is 'capped' by how many can afford to go given the current prices of tickets irrespective of any future success - Future success that may see a rise in corporate revenue, but will not fill larger terraces.

 

So what COULD be done? I believe that if he is even thinking about expansion he will look at examples elsewhere in Europe for how clubs of a similar size have navigated through stadium expansion and driven growth in attendance - good examples are Bayer Leverkusen who for years were stuck in a 22k staudium and often not sold out and redeveloped to the new Bayarena at 30k and sold out most games - for a small club mixing it with Europe elite now and again - but also the pricing model - where cheaper seats and offset against more expensive and corporate, ensuring no group is disenfranchised from attending.

 

But he will be aware that this may seem like stupidity/nonsense, given the pricing culture in the UK - so what other methods are avaialble to a club to increase demand if success on the pitch is simply never going to do it if we are stuck with this pricing model? I cant think of any.... But a question for you, There is nothing to STOP saints adopting any pricing model they chose, indeed would not a unilateral shift by saints towards a German pricing model not be welcomed by fans and supporters groups, or should we we worried about ridicule from the masses?

 

Several posters have stated that the only rational time to expand is when we have 1000s on a waiting list. My argument is that if we wait for that we will never expand - it wont happen, prices would just go up and the demographic would be even more skewed towards the affluent middle classes - thats the nature of the beast.

 

BUt just imagine IF saints did put fans at the centre of their plans - recognising that with success on the pitch there would be the desire to come, provided it was affordable?

 

I know many think NC is a complete ***t, but I doubt he will be ignoring the fact that there are a great many fans out their that currently can not attend...

[ART]

58,000 at 60 quid a time? Who are you kidding Mister Cortese? You must be certain of Pompey vanishing off the scene.

[Frank's cousin]

I'm not really quite sure what you're banging on about now. Are we charging £12 or £25? Are we talking hypothetical or did you not read my post about how i think Saints and any sensible business would plan before spending tens of millions of pounds to make sure that wasn't money down the drain? I think you need to work out what you are on about and then come back with a comprehensible point, or if all else fails mention Germany again.

 

Behave, come back when you have your sensible head on - if you really are struggling with what is a simple question, well tough.

[Thedelldays]

frank..of course it COULD happen....NC reducing the ticket prices to £10 next season COULD happen...

 

neither wont though

[stug76]

LOL, there's nothing like a good Stadium expansion thread to get the doom mongers out is there!! IF this is being mentioned in the stadium tours as the op suggests - and I've no reason to doubt it - then it's just another indicator that "it's happening".

[Frank's cousin]

58,000 at 60 quid a time? Who are you kidding Mister Cortese? You must be certain of Pompey vanishing off the scene.

 

Exactly at even £35 we aint going to fill 48k let alone 58k - unless he is afctoring a mass defection form the blue section.... so If we assume w aint going to fill 48k at thes epprices.... how do we change that?

[Saint-Fred]

Well explain how it is practical?

 

??? Ask Arsenal, Man Utd,Sunderland ,Man City, Newcastle, MK Dons, Saints, Bolton,Wigan,Darlington! etc....all have bigger grounds than when I first started watching the saints. So practical? Must be or they wouldn't have done it! (I am not saying they fill them but they do have bigger grounds)

 

Could we have the money to expand the stadium? Looks like it or we have a chairman that lives in a dream land?

Could we fill it? depending on the size........probably not at this time.However We hear all the stories about us outgrowing the dell but actually it was never really hard to get tickets yet we then almost doubled support overnight moving to St Mary's?

 

All I am saying is we appear to have someone in charge who believes we can and it would seem it is on the agenda to expand at some point. At the end of the day for all the "WE WON'T DO IT.....FACT" or "WE WON'T EVER FILL IT" statements on here, they are irrelevant...only one person's opinion matters and if he has his mind set on expansion then it is likely to happen whether people on here have a coronary about it or not!

 

Why can't people just have a debate about it without getting so worked up? Why are people ridiculed for expressing their opinion that they think we could expand?

and why do some people on here feel the desperate need to force their opinions on others? (There is a world of difference between expressing an opinion and what we see on these threads!)

[110_Persaint]

The number of people taken in by the 58k ******** is laughable.

[Frank's cousin]

frank..of course it COULD happen....NC reducing the ticket prices to £10 next season COULD happen...

 

neither wont though

 

You do understand the German model though dont you.... that its a section that is available cheap... not all tickets? Seriously I dont believ he would suddenly move in this direction - but I am intriged as anyone as to what he belives will drive demand to teh extent of filling a 48k staium - because I do not believe success alone will do that at current prices... so what is it Mr C?

[pap]

Like many on here, I do wonder whether a 58K stadium is remotely fillable.

 

Once again. Half the city doesn't give a crap about footy. Only around half of what's left support Southampton, and we still don't get all of those to come.

 

I think pricing really does matter. Three of us at Wigan cost £45, which I thought was excellent. Now you could argue that low ticket prices haven't helped Wigan to pack their ground, but they are such a special case it's unreal. Rugby League town, and full of scousers and mancs ( or their kids ) who retain their original allegiances. Put footy on a par with going to the cinema, and tons more people will go. That's really the apt comparison, as cinemas make most of their profits from the crap they sell, not the films they show. If I could take my family to footy for 50 quid every week, I'd probably go a lot more often.

 

The other thing to consider is that the stadium doesn't necessarily have to be 58K all the time. There are already a couple of venues worldwide experimenting with adjustable capacities. Some use a curtaining system which visually brings the size of the stadium down. A football stadium would need to consider acoustics, but it is possible to have a 58K seater stadium that looks like a 30K one.

[Frank's cousin]

The number of people taken in by the 58k ******** is laughable.

 

Most know the current stadoum is limited to 46-48 max - so not many 'taken in' really...

[jawillwill]

Sorry to bring this up again, but i did the St Marys tour at the weekend and it came up that as long as we stay up this season, consolidate next season then St Marys will be increased in size to hold 58,000.

Can we justify a stadium of this size?

also the ambitions of the club are to get Southampton as an established top 4 club.

 

I expect what's happened is someone has got their wires crossed. They have not heard we are expand TO 58,000, we are expanding BY 58,000. Only we're not expanding by 58,000, we are expanding by 5,800 which would bring us in line with what everyone is expecting and what is realistic based on how much we know SMS can be expanded by.

[Frank's cousin]

I expect what's happened is someone has got their wires crossed. They have not heard we are expand TO 58,000, we are expanding BY 58,000. Only we're not expanding by 58,000, we are expanding by 5,800 which would bring us in line with what everyone is expecting and what is realistic based on how much we know SMS can be expanded by.

 

Indeed - 5 to 8000 - would still cost us about 30mil though.

[Dangermouth]

Most businessmen are greedy, stupid and scared; not innovators/entrepreneurs, but they will jump on a good idea and copy it. Think about how many people now speak almost entirely in business-gibberish to see how they can only follow the 'good' and 'successful' as told to them by someone else. IF someone can bring in a different way of getting attendances high and money in, others will copy it. Not the likes of Man U, L'pool etc because they have their own way of doing things but the lesser clubs will - depending on their availability to do so e.g. if standing terraces are allowed back in. Businesses copy others all the time - it's called 'benchmarking' (or copying).

[pap]

Most know the current stadoum is limited to 46-48 max - so not many 'taken in' really...

 

I didn't know that, but I assumed they'd be ripping it down and starting again anyway, with a wide pedestrian avenue called Southampton Way. At the end of the avenue, two giant Cortese statues high five to form an arch. It'll be magnificent.

[Sour Mash]

Ok - first up I am not saying will, second if you go back to my original question it was asking what IS Cortese thinking in terms of how he would fill a 48k stadium IF and that a big IF he is really thinking about stadium expansion.

 

But I actualy find this an interesting Di emma and a nice distraction form th work I should be doing so happy to keep going

 

First up lets make some assumptions because this gets way to complaced if we have to factor in commercial rate loans and debt repayment - so lets assume NC has acces sto say 50mil in a trust left by Markus that can only be used for infrastructure development. (I know its pure speculation, but remember I am trying to figure out what might be driving this from from NCs perspective)

 

1. Assumes he wants to push on and see Saints achieve a 'BIgger club'

 

To do this we need to first be successful on the pitch - that means prem survival, consolidation and progression to the top 6 - lets assume that happens

It means regular European football to become a household footballing name outside of the SO post code

It means improving our status within the game and a large empty stadium will not do that - for that w eneed to fill it.

 

So the first question is, would we ever fill a 48 seater regularly based on footballing success alone?

 

I dont think we would because currently I believe our attendance is 'capped' by how many can afford to go given the current prices of tickets irrespective of any future success - Future success that may see a rise in corporate revenue, but will not fill larger terraces.

 

So what COULD be done? I believe that if he is even thinking about expansion he will look at examples elsewhere in Europe for how clubs of a similar size have navigated through stadium expansion and driven growth in attendance - good examples are Bayer Leverkusen who for years were stuck in a 22k staudium and often not sold out and redeveloped to the new Bayarena at 30k and sold out most games - for a small club mixing it with Europe elite now and again - but also the pricing model - where cheaper seats and offset against more expensive and corporate, ensuring no group is disenfranchised from attending.

 

But he will be aware that this may seem like stupidity/nonsense, given the pricing culture in the UK - so what other methods are avaialble to a club to increase demand if success on the pitch is simply never going to do it if we are stuck with this pricing model? I cant think of any.... But a question for you, There is nothing to STOP saints adopting any pricing model they chose, indeed would not a unilateral shift by saints towards a German pricing model not be welcomed by fans and supporters groups, or should we we worried about ridicule from the masses?

 

Several posters have stated that the only rational time to expand is when we have 1000s on a waiting list. My argument is that if we wait for that we will never expand - it wont happen, prices would just go up and the demographic would be even more skewed towards the affluent middle classes - thats the nature of the beast.

 

BUt just imagine IF saints did put fans at the centre of their plans - recognising that with success on the pitch there would be the desire to come, provided it was affordable?

 

I know many think NC is a complete ***t, but I doubt he will be ignoring the fact that there are a great many fans out their that currently can not attend...

You've still not explained why we would do this? Yes, it'd be great to have cheaper tickets, of course it would, but it makes no financial sense.

[Frank's cousin]

I didn't know that, but I assumed they'd be ripping it down and starting again anyway, with a wide pedestrian avenue called Southampton Way. At the end of the avenue, two giant Cortese statues high five to form an arch. It'll be magnificent.

 

Genius - hope you get the design commision Pap

[ART]

We should do our own version of the Dad's Army theme to "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU"RE KIDDING MISTER CORTESE" I'd love to see a poll to know how many actually believe his b u ll s h i t e on the club's future.

 

[pap]

Genius - hope you get the design commision Pap

 

I've sent them to the club. They have been on Cortese's desk a couple of times. However, MLT, who is much against the proposed revamp, has foiled my designs at very turn. He climbs to the top of Albion Towers and takes long range free kicks at Cortese's office window. He is accurate enough to "pot" my proposals into the waste bin.

 

It's not unlike snooker.

[Frank's cousin]

You've still not explained why we would do this? Yes, it'd be great to have cheaper tickets, of course it would, but it makes no financial sense.

 

Makes financial sense as soon as teh overall match day revenue is greater than we have now. The number crunching on price bands for diffrent parts of the ground, offsetting cheaper sections to greater extent to what we currently do - with 42k full we would probably see an extra £300k per match + associated beer/food spend and thats if with 10k seats priced at £15 for an adult with a only a £5 increase say in best centre sections... if properly marketed - that's possibly upto £450k- £500k a match or 9mil a season against against a build cost of approx 30 mil would pay for itself in 4 years - spread over 15 years, and you have increased cash revenue of 6-7 mil a season - maybe not 'huge', but a decent players wages, and you have a better atmosphere, is good for attrcating players etc and you ahve as a club included a broader section of the potential fan base - its posisble to make it work financially. I am not saying it would ever happen, just that as a business model its NOT as ridiculous as some are trying to make out.

[Frank's cousin]

I've sent them to the club. They have been on Cortese's desk a couple of times. However, MLT, who is much against the proposed revamp, has foiled my designs at very turn. He climbs to the top of Albion Towers and takes long range free kicks at Cortese's office window. He is accurate enough to "pot" my proposals into the waste bin.

 

It's not unlike snooker.

 

Fear not pap, I have heard from an insider that I can not name for fear of reprisals (think cheese wire, testicles etc)that teh planned meeting between Cortese and MLT is actually as they have now decside it will be a stature of each of them high fiving - but there are potential problems as NC wants to be depicted as taller than MLT so this may boil on yet.

[Sour Mash]

Makes financial sense as soon as teh overall match day revenue is greater than we have now. The number crunching on price bands for diffrent parts of the ground' date=' offsetting cheaper sections to greater extent to what we currently do - with 42k full we would probably see an extra £300k per match + associated beer/food spend and thats if with 10k seats priced at £15 for an adult with a only a £5 increase say in best centre sections... if properly marketed - that's possibly upto £450k- £500k a match or 9mil a season against against a build cost of approx 30 mil would pay for itself in 4 years - spread over 15 years, and you have increased cash revenue of 6-7 mil a season - maybe not 'huge', but a decent players wages, and you have a better atmosphere, is good for attrcating players etc and you ahve as a club included a broader section of the potential fan base - its posisble to make it work financially. I am not saying it would ever happen, just that as a business model its NOT as ridiculous as some are trying to make out.[/quote'] I think you need to have another look at those figures, they don't make sense.

[CB Fry]

Makes financial sense as soon as teh overall match day revenue is greater than we have now. The number crunching on price bands for diffrent parts of the ground' date=' offsetting cheaper sections to greater extent to what we currently do - with 42k full we would probably see an extra £300k per match + associated beer/food spend and thats if with 10k seats priced at £15 for an adult with a only a £5 increase say in best centre sections... if properly marketed - that's possibly upto £450k- £500k a match or 9mil a season against against a build cost of approx 30 mil would pay for itself in 4 years - spread over 15 years, and you have increased cash revenue of 6-7 mil a season - maybe not 'huge', but a decent players wages, and you have a better atmosphere, is good for attrcating players etc and you ahve as a club included a broader section of the potential fan base - its posisble to make it work financially. I am not saying it would ever happen, just that as a business model its NOT as ridiculous as some are trying to make out.[/quote']

 

It is as ridiculous as some are making out. It is utterly ridiculous.

 

Spending millions expanding a stadium in order to sell ten thousand of those seats at £15 a time, maybe £20 for the superduper posh premium ones. Utterly laughable. As others have pointed out you can't get into some League One and Two grounds for that.

 

And why would you need to "properly market" Premier League tickets at fifteen quid a pop? It's a flipping giveaway and they'd sell out within minutes of going on sale for every match. To people who were going to go anyway.

 

"Pay for itself in four years" means makes zero money in four years. Especially as your entire business model is designed simply to pay for the stadium as opposed to gate reciepts contributing to the actual income of the club. And paying off a stadium expansion in just four years is fairyland stuff anyway.

 

And you seem to be assuming that slashing prices is going to automatically equate to 42,000 sell outs, rather than, say the people currently paying a lot more than that just snapping up the cheaper tickets. There's no evidence anywhere that we can regularly get 42,000 through the door.

 

Here's an idea to generate real income. A million quid a season. No risk. No mortgage. Just delicious money into the club.

 

It's easy. £2 average ticket price rise next season. And again the season after that. And again. And again.

 

Pays for itself in zero days. Easy, aint it?

Edited 4 February, 2013 by CB Fry

[sandwichsaint]

Depends whether they go for the 'bolt on' option or rebuild I guess? Original foundations were for 55k but it was generally thought that reconfiguring the Itchen would be to pricey, so max is circa 48k.

 

Agreed, bit extreme moving a whole river system.

[Saint-Fred]

For all those business brains out there

 

Can you please explain how Arsenals business plan was so sound when they spent 13 times (£400m) the cost of St Mary's on the Emirates?

Surely they were better off staying where they were and charging an extra couple of quid?

[The9]

You've still not explained why we would do this? Yes, it'd be great to have cheaper tickets, of course it would, but it makes no financial sense.

 

They'd have to get rid of the car park charge to enable us to sell another 30k best-ever selling pink and yellow spotted home shirts to the Japanese, or something. I forget.

 

I can see that getting people in cheap would shift shedloads more merchandise, but it would have to be supported by a more accessible model of flogging Saints junk than "OS and 3 shops".

 

PS to the bloke above who said Darlington have a bigger ground than when he first started watching Saints, Darlington (now officially called Darlington 1883 FC and playing in the Northern League) are currently ground sharing with Bishop Auckland, capacity 2,500. A cautionary tale about overexpanding to a too-big stadium with the Darlington Arena now owned by Darlington Mowden Park Rugby League club.

[Charlie Wayman]

It's a nightmare trying to get to the ground on time because of road congestion and to find parking space when we have +25k in the ground even worse getting home when everyone leaves at the same time. It would be impossible for this city and especially the St Mary's area to take many more people. The idea of expanding SMS to the size suggested by the OP is so ridiculous in terms of what is possible and what would be allowable by town planners and the police that the only amazing revelation on here is that anybody has given it credence enough to discuss it seriously.

 

Just suppose for one minute that we freely did want a 60K seater stadium then common sense tells us that it could only be on a site near the Motorways with enough wide open space around to create the car parks needed and tell me this who on earth would ever sanction such a use of greenfield land for such a venture. Have we already forgotten the Stoneham nightmare saga.

 

Come on chaps, wake up and smell the coffee!

[The9]

For all those business brains out there

 

Can you please explain how Arsenals business plan was so sound when they spent 13 times (£400m) the cost of St Mary's on the Emirates?

Surely they were better off staying where they were and charging an extra couple of quid?

 

Scared about getting left behind with crowds under half the size of their direct rivals Man U, and with the limited availability of land they had to move when they did or they'd probably have had no opportunity to move later. It was well worth mortgaging a few years of success for a long term base which they can use to drive up merchandise sales and not have to turn football tourists away - they also have a captive audience with the population of London on their doorstep. The key to supporting a stadium expansion is exploiting new markets and building loyalty amongst people who previously weren't interested.

 

I don't think you'll get much in the way of figures though.

[The9]

It's a nightmare trying to get to the ground on time because of road congestion and to find parking space when we have +25k in the ground even worse getting home when everyone leaves at the same time. It would be impossible for this city and especially the St Mary's area to take many more people. The idea of expanding SMS to the size suggested by the OP is so ridiculous in terms of what is possible and what would be allowable by town planners and the police that the only amazing revelation on here is that anybody has given it credence enough to discuss it seriously.

 

Just suppose for one minute that we freely did want a 60K seater stadium then common sense tells us that it could only be on a site near the Motorways with enough wide open space around to create the car parks needed and tell me this who on earth would ever sanction such a use of greenfield land for such a venture. Have we already forgotten the Stoneham nightmare saga.

 

Come on chaps, wake up and smell the coffee!

 

We didn't have much in the way of traffic problems when we had free bus tickets and the council insisting on the park and rides being provided, they were only removed when the club was in trouble under the understanding that crowds wouldn't go over 25k and that's been quietly forgotten since - hopefully the Council would insist on similar measures being reintroduced for any expansion.

 

Then again, I'd be more than happy for the Liebherrs to sponsor a city-wide tramlink like Manchester's...

[CB Fry]

For all those business brains out there

 

Can you please explain how Arsenals business plan was so sound when they spent 13 times (£400m) the cost of St Mary's on the Emirates?

Surely they were better off staying where they were and charging an extra couple of quid?

 

I think you'll find they do charge an extra couple of quid in the Emirates too.

 

You'll notice they didn't spend that money on a stadium and then slash prices to League One levels, which is what our premium business brain is recommending.

[Sour Mash]

For all those business brains out there

 

Can you please explain how Arsenals business plan was so sound when they spent 13 times (£400m) the cost of St Mary's on the Emirates?

Surely they were better off staying where they were and charging an extra couple of quid?

They had a massive season ticket waiting list for a start.

[norwaysaint]

I think you'll find they do charge an extra couple of quid in the Emirates too.

 

You'll notice they didn't spend that money on a stadium and then slash prices to League One levels, which is what our premium business brain is recommending.

 

I can't see a single post where he's recommended it. I can't see a single post where he's said he thinks the stadium should be expanded at all. As far as I can see he hasn't said that we should build a 58k stadium and he hasn't said we should slash prices.

 

like everyone else he's struggling to see why there would be plans to build such a thing and has searched for the only possible way it could be filled. I don't think anybody so far on this thread has said we should build such a big stadium. It's a consensus of agreement, but this is SWF and people have to argue about something, so FC has suggested the only feasible way he can think of that such a stadium could be filled and most other posters have decided to interpret this as him saying this should happen. That's how it seems to me anyhow.

[moonraker]

You all seem to be missing the real reason for this, when the Skates go pop our catchment area will increase notably, and the sons and daughters of bestest fans in the world will flock to St Marys to see the champions of Europe!!!!!!! We will of course introduce a two tier pricing structure, real ubber fans for a tenner the new plastics £50 +.