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Letting leads slip


Thedelldays
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seems to be a trait of the club at the mo....

 

letting leads go late in the game...or letting leads go full stop

personally, I think that will be our downfall this season (but that is another debate)

 

but why do you think that is...

 

it happened in the odd big game in the NPC....both against pompey spring to mind...

 

it cant be just bad luck as it has happened quite a lot...

 

its an odd one

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Think with the new system it's just us getting knackered. But we should have seen it out on Saturday. We were fantastic at getting ahead and staying ahead last season, especially if we were winning at half time, we went on to win every game.

 

Not sure why this season though, concentration maybe, maybe opposition throwing players forward and we can't deal with it or maybe just poor defending.

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It needs sorting, I think our performances in general this season should have us comfortably lower mid-table, but these lapses have left us in the sh*t somewhat. If we pull it off and survive, we'll be a lot stronger next season with the experience and understanding gained this season.

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Some of it is just bad luck, we've let leads slip this season from own goals, moronic ref decisions and some calamity moments.

 

Would rather we are still taking points this way instead of getting a lucky draw from being behind all game.

 

Some of it is in our own hands, mostly taking the numerous chances we carve out every game would help, but some you can't seem to legislate for (ref's disallowing goals for a cb jumping and other nonsense). We have had a few slices of luck (Villa away) and it'll start to come good if we keep attacking and trying to iron out the errors (not playing Kelvin is one of the key ones).

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Some times it's been bad luck, some times poor defending. A number of reasons really.

 

Also, what is wrong........with just......using......one full stop..........at a time?

using 3 full stops can be perfectly acceptable in English Grammar....I have used 4 at times...will do better

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Points dropped from leading positions this season:

 

Man City 3-2 Saints - From 2-1 up - 3 points dropped

Saints 2-3 Man Utd - From 1-0 and 2-1 up - 3 points dropped

Everton 3-1 Saints - From 1-0 up - 3 points dropped

Saints 2-2 Fulham - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped (although we then went 2-1 down, so can also be seen as a point gained from losing position)

Saints 1-1 Swansea - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Saints 1-1 Norwich - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Stoke 3-3 Saints - From 3-1 up - 2 points dropped

Saints 1-1 Arsenal - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Man Utd 2-1 Saints - From 1-0 up - 3 points dropped

Wigan 2-2 Saints - From 2-1 up - 2 points dropped

 

Total points dropped from leading positions - 24

 

In contrast, we have only earned 6 points from losing positions.

 

With those 24 points, we'd currently be sat in 3rd. With just over half of them we'd be sat in 8th.

 

The worst ones for me are the Swansea, Norwich, Stoke and Wigan points thrown away. The former 2 coming from 2 direct errors from Gazzaniga, in games where the opposition didn't look like scoring until he gifted them their goals. Stoke, 3-1 up, and should have been 4-1 up 60 seconds before they pull one back. Wigan, 90th minute from a set piece, the only way they looked like scoring. Even with the 8 points from those games we'd be in 10th place.

 

I hope we won't come to regret all of these lost points, but if we go down then our inability to hold onto leads will be the paramount reason for relegation, just as it was in 2004/05.

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Think with the new system it's just us getting knackered. But we should have seen it out on Saturday. We were fantastic at getting ahead and staying ahead last season, especially if we were winning at half time, we went on to win every game.

 

Not sure why this season though, concentration maybe, maybe opposition throwing players forward and we can't deal with it or maybe just poor defending.

 

I think this is a great reply and I agree, BUT, having said that we have been doing it for years, my dad always says that if Saints are winning at half time he worries and I think he is correct COYR

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whilst i cant disagree weve let leads slip it would be interesting to see how other temas have fared in the same way - whilst we let a lead slip this weekend we certainly werent the only ones. I also feel our early season performances against the manchester teams skew the results slightly - most teams (especially lower half) simply dont get the opportunity to let leads slip against these teams. Obviously it doesnt change the facts but personally feel these should be taken in to account a bit. Points against wigan and stoke hurt alot but sure they have their own stories, im sure that its harder as a lower team in the prem though than a top team as weve been used to the last three years and that could make a difference too

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Hate the points dropped stat, clearly doesn't take into account games that we probably wouldn't win in the first place, City away, Everton away, United away....

 

Should have taken something more from United at home, Arsenal at home and Wigan away though. The other results are just dropped points without a doubt.

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Points dropped from leading positions this season:

 

Man City 3-2 Saints - From 2-1 up - 3 points dropped

Saints 2-3 Man Utd - From 1-0 and 2-1 up - 3 points dropped

Everton 3-1 Saints - From 1-0 up - 3 points dropped

Saints 2-2 Fulham - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped (although we then went 2-1 down, so can also be seen as a point gained from losing position)

Saints 1-1 Swansea - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Saints 1-1 Norwich - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Stoke 3-3 Saints - From 3-1 up - 2 points dropped

Saints 1-1 Arsenal - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Man Utd 2-1 Saints - From 1-0 up - 3 points dropped

Wigan 2-2 Saints - From 2-1 up - 2 points dropped

 

Total points dropped from leading positions - 24

 

In contrast, we have only earned 6 points from losing positions.

 

With those 24 points, we'd currently be sat in 3rd. With just over half of them we'd be sat in 8th.

 

The worst ones for me are the Swansea, Norwich, Stoke and Wigan points thrown away. The former 2 coming from 2 direct errors from Gazzaniga, in games where the opposition didn't look like scoring until he gifted them their goals. Stoke, 3-1 up, and should have been 4-1 up 60 seconds before they pull one back. Wigan, 90th minute from a set piece, the only way they looked like scoring. Even with the 8 points from those games we'd be in 10th place.

 

I hope we won't come to regret all of these lost points, but if we go down then our inability to hold onto leads will be the paramount reason for relegation, just as it was in 2004/05.

 

 

Thing is Man Utd away, Everton Away were early goals and not palces we would expect to win, same Utd Home, Man City away etc.

 

Would be interesting to see points dropped late in the game i.e. in the last 5 minutes or so and if we are worse than anyone else in this regard.

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Possibly inexperience, especially at this level.

 

The majority of the side are rather young, with more experience I imagine (hope) this will sort itself out.

 

Probably the two teams worst for this is us and villa, coincidentally the two youngest squads.

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Points dropped from leading positions this season:

 

Man City 3-2 Saints - From 2-1 up - 3 points dropped

Saints 2-3 Man Utd - From 1-0 and 2-1 up - 3 points dropped

Everton 3-1 Saints - From 1-0 up - 3 points dropped

Saints 2-2 Fulham - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped (although we then went 2-1 down, so can also be seen as a point gained from losing position)

Saints 1-1 Swansea - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Saints 1-1 Norwich - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Stoke 3-3 Saints - From 3-1 up - 2 points dropped

Saints 1-1 Arsenal - From 1-0 up - 2 points dropped

Man Utd 2-1 Saints - From 1-0 up - 3 points dropped

Wigan 2-2 Saints - From 2-1 up - 2 points dropped

 

Total points dropped from leading positions - 24

 

In contrast, we have only earned 6 points from losing positions.

 

With those 24 points, we'd currently be sat in 3rd. With just over half of them we'd be sat in 8th.

 

The worst ones for me are the Swansea, Norwich, Stoke and Wigan points thrown away. The former 2 coming from 2 direct errors from Gazzaniga, in games where the opposition didn't look like scoring until he gifted them their goals. Stoke, 3-1 up, and should have been 4-1 up 60 seconds before they pull one back. Wigan, 90th minute from a set piece, the only way they looked like scoring. Even with the 8 points from those games we'd be in 10th place.

 

I hope we won't come to regret all of these lost points, but if we go down then our inability to hold onto leads will be the paramount reason for relegation, just as it was in 2004/05.

 

At least it wont be as bad as being able to blame close-shave relegation on one game. Unless you feel the points dropped in one of those games were even more criminal than the others (Stoke ? It was a 2-goal lead)

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People saying this is a trait at the moment have got short memories. As a club this has been fairly common for many seasons

 

Not in the last 3 years it hasn't...we did it in our relegation season in Prem, and when we were on our downward spiral in the NPC, but haven't been common since the takeover.

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I think it is largely to do with our inability to defend against the high ball. Whichever team we play, whether it be Man Utd or Wigan, they will largely go for a more direct route if they are searching for a winner or equaliser in the last 5-10 minutes. Once they go for this more direct aerial route, we know the writing is on the wall whereas when we play against a team offering a more cultured style (generally in the first 80 mins) we have aquited ourselves fairly well. We have not helped ourselves when for instance when we took off Lambert and Lallana in the home match with Utd and thus handed the incentive to the opposition either. When we do this we invite the opposition to try and break us down and stop playing to our strengths. Unfortunately, as we have seen, the opposition invariably do break us down. We can feel it as fans in the last few minutes and the players must feel it too and thus drop back more and so it goes on. I think it is less of a physical issue with tiredness but more of a physchological issue. We just don't have the quality of defenders to mop up long balls, we are not decisive enough or have any true leaders and we pay for it IMHO.

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Just had a quick look at this season so far, and here is points lost from 85th minute onwards:

 

Spurs 8

Saints 7

Chelsea 7

Fulham 7

Everton 6

Villa 5

WBA 5

Newcastle 4

Sunderland 3

Stoke 3

Reading 2

Wigan 2

Man U 2

Man C 1

Arsenal 1

 

No points dropped in LAST 5+ by QPR, Liverpool, Swansea, West Ham or Norwich.

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All very well looking at points dropped and saying "if only..." but every team could do that; far more important that Pochettino and his coaching team identify ways of preventing it in the future. Taking our chances seems to be something of an issue of late - if we can put games to bed earlier I believe we'll stay up without too much bother.

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Remember that in order to "lose points" from 85th onwards you need to have been winning or tying at the time (hence why QPR for example have 0 dropped, they have either been losing and lost or were winning and won).

 

We lost 3 points of that 7 to Man U as we were winning in 84th min and ended up losing...

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Fulham, United home and Wigan and Stoke away are the clear stand out's imo.

 

Fulham - We scored a perfectly good goal to go 2-0 up but the referee decided to give Fulham a free kick for a foul on their keeper even though it should have stood.

United - 2-1 up in the 87th minute, awful defending for both their 2nd and 3rd goals.

 

Stoke - Kelvin's mistake to allow them to get it back to 3-2 as well as Jay Rod's/Guly's miss when both should have scored.

Wigan - Dominated 2nd half but still couldn't defend when it mattered.

 

Same old story with Saints.

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Fulham, United home and Wigan and Stoke away are the clear stand out's imo.

 

Fulham - We scored a perfectly good goal to go 2-0 up but the referee decided to give Fulham a free kick for a foul on their keeper even though it should have stood.

United - 2-1 up in the 87th minute, awful defending for both their 2nd and 3rd goals.

 

Stoke - Kelvin's mistake to allow them to get it back to 3-2 as well as Jay Rod's/Guly's miss when both should have scored.

Wigan - Dominated 2nd half but still couldn't defend when it mattered.

 

Same old story with Saints.

 

But not Norwich or Swansea where 2 errors from Gazza cost us 2 wins?

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This season?

 

Also it shows that spurs do!

 

Also why are we listed 2nd? It is more dramatic.

 

I would like to see over the past 20 years all teams, and points gained in the last 5. Bet Man U are top.

 

It could be because we were struggling in the top flight for many seasons?

 

If someone could knock this up! Lol

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This season?

 

Also it shows that spurs do!

 

Also why are we listed 2nd? It is more dramatic.

 

I would like to see over the past 20 years all teams, and points gained in the last 5. Bet Man U are top.

 

It could be because we were struggling in the top flight for many seasons?

 

If someone could knock this up! Lol

im on about this season.....

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im on about this season.....

 

You say this but I do remember a lot of late goals in the late 80's and through most of the 90's. but again it could be because most seasons we were in a relegation battle. We always seemed to be able to score, like now, but never much good at the back.

 

Until Saturday we were not that bad, but I do think we do well for a team down the bottom to get in a position to win these games. Man U, stoke away, not so much Wigan. These are the 3 matches we have let in the late goals to cost the points right?

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Fox (City), Gazza (Swansea, Norwich), Hooiveld (Utd, Fulham) , Guly (Arsenal)

 

Four players alone, none of whom are (or should be) regular starters at the moment have cost us a combined total of a MASSIVE 12 points, which would have us on 36 points as we speak (safe by anyone's standards).

 

Other times (Everton, Stoke, Wigan) it has just been inexperience all over the park - when you go in front THAT is when you begin to play possession football and contain the opposition in their half. When we've already been doing it for 80+ mins we become so knackered it's crazy. I reiterate what I said in another thread - for a team short on real quality like us, pretty football should NOT be our aim! Score your goals, do what is necessary, THEN start to play and take the game to the opposition. The sooner we learn to abandon the Southampton Way to make way for what actually produces tangible results, the sooner we'll begin climbing up the table IMHO.

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I think its a confidence/ psychological thing - I remember under WGS, the cup final year -when we were playing well, we seemed to take a lot of points . United for example , always seem to score when they need to in last 5- 10 mins - its no doubt to do with the fact that they are confident that they will get the breakthrough and keep playing , we on the other hand dont have that same belief ..(yet).

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Agree, strangely quite happy when we play badly in the first half and aren't losing!

if we continue to not win, we will go down..

 

1 win in 9 as it stands....awful

 

wasnt it this very week 8 years ago that we let a last min goal in at home to everton..(like we did at wigan)....

its all happening again...

 

:cry:

Edited by Thedelldays
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1 win in 9 as it stands....awful

 

 

2 defeats in 10 doesn't look too bad.

 

#pedant Also, why are these points 'lost' ? You start the game at 0-0, so theoretically 1 point gained over where you are before the game, but you don't improve this to the 3 for a win until the final whistle. You cannot lose what you never had. /#pedant

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