Ramirez bashing, calm down

[Gambol2K9]

the issue is has he justified the £12 Million we have so far paid for him, has he justified his wages, has his performances been good enough

 

He doesn't need to justify the £12m we paid for him, Cortese does. He has without doubt improved the squad and will only improve the more he gets used to the English game and his fitness improves. The amount we paid for him is irrelevant when reviewing his contribution. If we had got him on a free how would you rate him?

[Sour Mash]

Ramirez has been one of our best players this season. His fitness and strength will improve in the coming years. Some people in this thread are utterly ignorant.

No he hasn't been one of our best players this season, don't be ridiculous.

[adrian lord]

Talented - yes.

 

But big questions to be answered about his robustness physically and mentally. Both of which are often interdependent.

 

The shrewdest of the big clubs- Manu under Fergie- only invest that sort of £ after establishing the target has talent and robustness mentally and physically. I'd guess that's why we weren't beaten by another big club to sign.

Edited 4 February, 2013 by adrian lord

[Wiggles31]

Under a new manager he has had one immense half where he was the best player on the pitch and two rubbish halves.

 

The lad has bags of potential which we have seen in glimpses. Stick with him and he will be great. I recall Lallana getting a lot of flak some time ago.

 

Frustrating I know for the price tag but be patient. His ability will pick us up points till the end of the season. He'll explode next season. Guarantee it.

[southamptonfc]

No he hasn't been one of our best players this season, don't be ridiculous.

 

Have you been to a match this season? I can't be arsed to argue with people who have no idea about football, bye.

[Thedelldays]

Have you been to a match this season? I can't be arsed to argue with people who have no idea about football, bye.

 

So, Are you saying he has been our best player this season?

 

Yes or no?

[Sour Mash]

Have you been to a match this season? I can't be arsed to argue with people who have no idea about football, bye.

He's not been one of our best players this season, deal with that fact in any way you find easiest.

[dubai_phil]

Hmm, now where did I file those

 

JRod is a talentless waste of money

&

 

Steve Davis shouldn't be anywhere near the first team threads?

 

Oh yeah in the same place as the Puncheon is the new God & must get a 200 year contract ones.

 

I expect I put it under B for Boruc is a disaster

[Thedelldays]

He doesn't need to justify the £12m we paid for him, Cortese does. He has without doubt improved the squad and will only improve the more he gets used to the English game and his fitness improves. The amount we paid for him is irrelevant when reviewing his contribution. If we had got him on a free how would you rate him?

OK, he needs to justify his £60k a week then...which I am totally sure was negotiated by his agent...unless he wanted a great deal less and the club insisted he should be paid more....

[tajjuk]

Hmm, now where did I file those

 

JRod is a talentless waste of money

&

 

Steve Davis shouldn't be anywhere near the first team threads?

 

Oh yeah in the same place as the Puncheon is the new God & must get a 200 year contract ones.

 

I expect I put it under B for Boruc is a disaster

 

 

Don't forget Yoshida was a back up buy and useless.

 

Pretty sure there have been threads and general over the top ignorant criticisms for:-

 

Boruc

Fonte

Hooiveld

Davis

Lallana

Jay Rod

Morgan

Puncheon

Guly

 

and now Gaston.

 

pretty much leaves Shaw, Cork and Lambert. I'll look forward to some posters self implosion and over the top reaction when one of those three has a few bad games.

 

All of those above players have proven the idiots wrong and I'm certain Gaston will.

[Sour Mash]

Don't forget Yoshida was a back up buy and useless.

 

Pretty sure there have been threads and general over the top ignorant criticisms for:-

 

Boruc

Fonte

Hooiveld

Davis

Lallana

Jay Rod

Morgan

Puncheon

Guly

 

and now Gaston.

 

pretty much leaves Shaw, Cork and Lambert. I'll look forward to some posters self implosion and over the top reaction when one of those three has a few bad games.

 

All of those above players have proven the idiots wrong and I'm certain Gaston will.

So you don't think we should discuss why our record signing, touted as one of the best young players in Europe, can't seem to play away from home? Surely thats worthy of comment?

[Greenridge]

Comedy gold

[tajjuk]

So you don't think we should discuss why our record signing, touted as one of the best young players in Europe, can't seem to play away from home? Surely thats worthy of comment?

 

In a word no.

 

He's had some bad games, get over it. Puncheon has been just as useless in recent games, can't see a thread on him.

 

As some above have said some of the best premier league players who have come from abroad have taken a while to adapt and had indifferent first seasons. I don't really know what you lot expected from a 21 year old who has never played in the league before, didn't speak the language, didn't get a pre-season to setlle in and has a had a fair few injuries. He's been inconsistent, that what I expected.

 

But then most of the squad have been inconsistent.

[Barry Sanchez]

In a word no.

 

He's had some bad games, get over it. Puncheon has been just as useless in recent games, can't see a thread on him.

 

As some above have said some of the best premier league players who have come from abroad have taken a while to adapt and had indifferent first seasons. I don't really know what you lot expected from a 21 year old who has never played in the league before, didn't speak the language, didn't get a pre-season to setlle in and has a had a fair few injuries. He's been inconsistent, that what I expected.

 

But then most of the squad have been inconsistent.

 

On your assessment then its sounds like we should be questioning the signing of him.

[Greenridge]

On your assessment then its sounds like we should be questioning the signing of him.

 

Maybe you could tweet Matthew and ask him to raise it when he meets Nicola, he's the only man with the answer.

[tajjuk]

On your assessment then its sounds like we should be questioning the signing of him.

 

Nope, you don't sign players for one season.

[Barry Sanchez]

He doesn't need to justify the £12m we paid for him, Cortese does. He has without doubt improved the squad and will only improve the more he gets used to the English game and his fitness improves. The amount we paid for him is irrelevant when reviewing his contribution. If we had got him on a free how would you rate him?

 

Distinctly average, to be fair, fans want to see something so they say what he has done at points this season is World class, is it? Is it really? No it really is not.

[Barry Sanchez]

Nope, you don't sign players for one season.

 

Cortese did, investment gamble buy ie we get relegated he recoups the money from Ramirez for Championship buys, is that going to happen? Errr no, so pray we dont get relegated.

[Sour Mash]

In a word no.

 

He's had some bad games, get over it. Puncheon has been just as useless in recent games, can't see a thread on him.

 

As some above have said some of the best premier league players who have come from abroad have taken a while to adapt and had indifferent first seasons. I don't really know what you lot expected from a 21 year old who has never played in the league before, didn't speak the language, didn't get a pre-season to setlle in and has a had a fair few injuries. He's been inconsistent, that what I expected.

 

But then most of the squad have been inconsistent.

'Get over it' ha, this is a Saints forum, we're discussing how one of our players performed. No-one is saying he's s**t or doesn't have talent, but are highlighting the fact he can't seem to perform away from home. For our record signing, that is disappointing.

[John B]

I saw World Class players such as Terry Paine Martin Chivers Ron Davies Mick Channon Kevin Keegan Alan Ball MLT down the Dell they were the dogs Bollix

 

 

Ramierz is not

[tajjuk]

'Get over it' ha, this is a Saints forum, we're discussing how one of our players performed. No-one is saying he's s**t or doesn't have talent, but are highlighting the fact he can't seem to perform away from home. For our record signing, that is disappointing.

 

That would be fine but most people's responses aren't proportional or well thought out.

 

We had a dissapointing result on Saturday, but it was still a point away from home, we're still out of the bottom 3 by 3 points.

 

Looking at some of the post match reactions you'd think we were already relegated.

 

From that we get this week's scapegoat -> Gaston Ramirez.

 

If he doesn't play next week or plays well that will be overlooked and someone else will get criticised.

 

Like I said we've had threads on here having a go at various players at some point this season all of which have been over the top. The criticisms of Gaston are no different. He was our best player against Everton merely two games ago.

[dubai_phil]

That would be fine but most people's responses aren't proportional or well thought out.

 

We had a dissapointing result on Saturday, but it was still a point away from home, we're still out of the bottom 3 by 3 points.

 

Looking at some of the post match reactions you'd think we were already relegated.

 

From that we get this week's scapegoat -> Gaston Ramirez.

 

If he doesn't play next week or plays well that will be overlooked and someone else will get criticised.

 

Like I said we've had threads on here having a go at various players at some point this season all of which have been over the top. The criticisms of Gaston are no different. He was our best player against Everton merely two games ago.

 

Yeah and in the first half when we were by all accounts rubbish, the fact that he got through the defence and managed to connect with a ball dropping over his shoulder while on the run has made him a waste of money because he couldn't guide it into the net.

 

He played a lot deeper on Saturday and again (in that first 45 when we were rubbish) masterminded a number of the moves in the final 10 minutes where Wigan looked like they were at Rorke's Drift.

 

He is currently playing as well as Adam Lallana managed in the first few games of the season - you remember them - where he kept going missing and leaving Danny Fox outnumbered making him the scape goat, and the same time when AL insisted on cutting inside EVERY time he got the ball - and losing it and slowing down our attacks.

 

Of course, those issues were resolved in training making AL far more effective

 

But hey I agree with the experts we should immediately lend GR to the skates to the end of the season and play Chaplow

 

He has faults. They will be worked on in training.

 

At LEAST he has a brain on his shoulders to match his talent, he will learn.

 

Unfortunately Pucheon seems to have used up his two footballing brain cells and is back to his early season headless chicken routine

 

I blame Puncheon for not giving Gaston an effective outlet

 

Davis for Puncheon against Citeh first 45 and see what happens

[Sour Mash]

That would be fine but most people's responses aren't proportional or well thought out.

 

We had a dissapointing result on Saturday, but it was still a point away from home, we're still out of the bottom 3 by 3 points.

 

Looking at some of the post match reactions you'd think we were already relegated.

 

From that we get this week's scapegoat -> Gaston Ramirez.

 

If he doesn't play next week or plays well that will be overlooked and someone else will get criticised.

 

Like I said we've had threads on here having a go at various players at some point this season all of which have been over the top. The criticisms of Gaston are no different. He was our best player against Everton merely two games ago.

It's nothing to do with Saturday's result. Do you think there is an issue with Ramirez's performances away from home or not?

[Greenridge]

was poor yesterday, but he quite clearly looks a quality player. I'm more than happy to give him more time. I'm willing to bet that £12m will seem a snip come the end of next season.

 

Agree with that Chez.

[Pat from Poole]

Agree with that Chez.

 

He'll need to do an awful lot in the next month or two, then. He has looked massively overpriced so far.

[hypochondriac]

That would be fine but most people's responses aren't proportional or well thought out.

 

We had a dissapointing result on Saturday, but it was still a point away from home, we're still out of the bottom 3 by 3 points.

 

Looking at some of the post match reactions you'd think we were already relegated.

 

From that we get this week's scapegoat -> Gaston Ramirez.

 

If he doesn't play next week or plays well that will be overlooked and someone else will get criticised.

 

Like I said we've had threads on here having a go at various players at some point this season all of which have been over the top. The criticisms of Gaston are no different. He was our best player against Everton merely two games ago.

 

That's just a silly comment. Ramirez isn't a scapegoat, he was very poor and will be legitimately criticised. He deserves criticism for what was an extremely bad performance.

[Chez]

He'll need to do an awful lot in the next month or two, then. He has looked massively overpriced so far.

 

I said end of next season.

[Cabrone]

If the boo boys had their way Boruc would have gone without playing and JRod would have been off by now.

 

I'd ignore them, they live to criticise and have zero patience\tolerance towards any player\manager it seems.

 

Ramirez looks good but he's young and is going to take a bit of time.

 

Give him a break.

[Sour Mash]

I said end of next season.

Only 15 months to wait then.

[david in sweden]

so now it's Ramirez turn to get heaps of criticism.

Sadly, some " regulars " on this site take it in turns to start " player-bashing " as soon as the target of their disapproval starts to find form, and they move on to someone else.

 

From the start it was the "inexperienced Clyne ", then Jos (who was one of the outstanding players last season).....and suddenly that " no-good " Puncheon came into some form and.... what about JayRod - " what a waste of money he was".....but suddenly he's come on a ton in the last month.....can't slate him any more..... so now.... it's Rodriguez' turn.

 

I can remember back FIVE decades and I can say one thing for certain.....NO-ONE ...NO-ONE...plays well all the time, sometimes they even have a wasted season.

No-one is good all the time. NOT Paine, or Ron Davies, not Channon, not Shearer, not Beattie and even MLT....especially not MLT ...despite his immense contribution to our history.

 

It's bad news for all you critics who; never miss a day at the job.....are the only worthwhile person in your workplace, but know this..even you ..may not be as perfect as you think. Like everyone else we have to live with our shortcomings...the only problem for most critics to accept is that (for footballers) " a bad day at the office " ..comes only once a week.

Edited 4 February, 2013 by david in sweden

[Thedelldays]

who the hell is player bashing....jesus christ, talk about over reaction

[Greenridge]

Only 15 months to wait then.

 

Maybe some would be better to do just that

[david in sweden]

who the hell is player bashing....jesus christ, talk about over reaction

 

well what would you call it TDD.?...

..you've been one of the most vocal with your " negative assessments " of our players in the past ........or else why have you managed to clock up over 33, 000 posts ?

 

re-read yourself on some of the previous threads....if you think that's an exaggeration.

[Thedelldays]

well what would you call it TDD.?...

..you've been one of the most vocal with your " negative assessments " of our players in the past ........or else why have you managed to clock up over 33, 000 posts ?

 

re-read yourself on some of the previous threads....if you think that's an exaggeration.

its called discussing player performance...?

[Sour Mash]

well what would you call it TDD.?...

..you've been one of the most vocal with your " negative assessments " of our players in the past ........or else why have you managed to clock up over 33, 000 posts ?

 

re-read yourself on some of the previous threads....if you think that's an exaggeration.

What do you think this forum is for? What do you think of Ramirez's performances away from home this season?

[saints-cris]

When he plays well he's our messiah, when he goes off the boil he's a waste of money.

 

Chill out, he's 21. Consistancy will come, we're lucky to have him.

[david in sweden]

What do you think this forum is for? What do you think of Ramirez's performances away from home this season?

 

I would prefer it if we had a little more encouragement for players and not the reverse.

 

Agreed, For some of his performances have been pretty anonymous...but surely he's not alone in that respect, but no-one plays well ALL THE TIME..and just because he cost £12 million ....doesn't make him a better player, (only the most expensive), and it will take time for this.... barely 21 y.o. ......to find a role in our Prem. side.

 

Surely the examples of Torres and Carroll must have brought that to your notice.

[hutch]

....jesus christ, talk about over reaction

[Sour Mash]

I would prefer it if we had a little more encouragement for players and not the reverse.

 

Agreed, For some of his performances have been pretty anonymous...but surely he's not alone in that respect, but no-one plays well ALL THE TIME..and just because he cost £12 million ....doesn't make him a better player, (only the most expensive), and it will take time for this.... barely 21 y.o. ......to find a role in our Prem. side.

 

Surely the examples of Torres and Carroll must have brought that to your notice.

Encouragement? This forum isn't where players go to for encouragement is it?

 

"Barely 21 y.o"? As in he's 22 years old you mean?

 

No-one is saying that the lad doesn't have ability, but there is a clear and worrying pattern with his form away from home, you expect no-one to mention that.

 

I'm not sure the examples of Torres or Carroll really help your point either.

Edited 4 February, 2013 by Sour Mash

[Window Cleaner]

I would prefer it if we had a little more encouragement for players and not the reverse.

 

Agreed, For some of his performances have been pretty anonymous...but surely he's not alone in that respect, but no-one plays well ALL THE TIME..and just because he cost £12 million ....doesn't make him a better player, (only the most expensive), and it will take time for this.... barely 21 y.o. ......to find a role in our Prem. side.

 

Surely the examples of Torres and Carroll must have brought that to your notice.

 

people who put things in bold type need to get their facts straight. Ramirez is 22 Luke Shaw on the other hand is 17

This is to do with adapting to EPL football though, no other league in the world is like it. Plus I think since his "single leg Arkwright" on Wilshere Gaston has got a reputation as a dirty player who gets as good as he gives.

Edited 4 February, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[Saint Thomas]

I do feel Gaston has been below average all season (I've seen most of the games) other than 30 minutes against Everton and bits and pieces elsewhere. One of my main worries is that his control seems really poor compared to those of say Cork, Rickie or Adam - I've always felt that was one of the key parts of football, and the ball just bounces off him so often. On top of that, his little flicks or through-balls are usually poorly-weighted and his dribbling skill hasn't been up to scratch - simply, he does give the ball away an awful lot of the times he gets it I feel. I really hope he improves and that it is a culture/fitness issue, but right now, I'd say he was only worth his place in the side as the bench is generally not of great quality.

The strange thing is, which he really hasn't shown himself to be worth £12m so far, but if he'd been signed on a free, I'd be more likely to be calling for him to be dropped/got rid of. As he was more expensive (and the underlying reasons for that), I'm more willing to support him being given time and trusting in it being a fitness/culture issue than a talent one. Basically though, just disappointed so far, but yet to have hope totally crushed that he'll come good!

[Saint Garrett]

Think he'll come good, just going to have to have a bit of patience with him I think. He's not had an ideal start to his Saints career (injuries, fitness, family issues), is still very young, and has just had to move to a new country - can't be very easy for the guy.

 

Despite this, for £12m you do expect a bit more. He has shown flashes of brilliance, and clearly is a very talented lad who at times seems one step ahead of some of our players. But yes, he has been poor away from home there is no doubting that. Once he gets his fitness up a bit more and gets settled into playing every week I think he'll start to show us why we paid £12m for the bloke. Would start him on the bench Saturday and get Lallana on. At the moment, Rodriguez is offering more, so he deserves the shirt. Toss up between Gaston and Punch for who gets dropped...or maybe it will be both of them and Davis also starts...

[adrian lord]

Funny, I assumed a football forum would be a place where you would discuss issues like the performance of the record signing.

 

Clearly not.

[110_Persaint]

expecting too much....he was apparenly one of the most wanted 21 year olds in world football when we signed him....

Bayern were interested for a brief spell, so were Juventus. Then Liverpool and Spurs came in after nobody was interested in paying what was demanded. The asking price was far too high (20m euros) and most chairmen realized they would be mugged if they went for him. We overpaid for him no question about that, and the fact that he cost so much was what generated the excitement in the first place. He can prove to be worth that much one day, but was not in the summer of 2012. Some big clubs were{/i] interested certainly - but to make him out to of been coveted by world football is a bit of a stretch.

 

IMO the sooner we begin to play to his strengths as opposed to the strengths of the likes of Davis and JayRod the sooner we'll see a world-class player in our beloved club.

[david in sweden]

"Barely 21 y.o"? As in he's 22 years old you mean?

 

aha !....you mean that it devalues my viewpoint, because I don't keep a perfect record of every player's birth date? Should he be better.. now that he's 22?

 

btw..the Torres /Carroll comment was that even fees of £35 and £50 million.. and in our case £12 million...don't automatically guarantee quality in every game.

[Mr X]

if we havent seen him improve his consistency in the time hes been here (hes had plenty of time to show he can get better) then theres nothing to suggest he will. Hope im proved wrong

[Sour Mash]

aha !....you mean that it devalues my viewpoint, because I don't keep a perfect record of every player's birth date? Should he be better.. now that he's 22?

 

btw..the Torres /Carroll comment was that even fees of £35 and £50 million.. and in our case £12 million...don't automatically guarantee quality in every game.

Just pointing out that you're wrong, that's all.

[capitalsaint]

Has this been posted yet?

 

http://inbedwithmaradona.com/the-100-for-2012/2012/11/18/gaston-ramirez.html

[Barry Sanchez]

When he plays well he's our messiah, when he goes off the boil he's a waste of money.

 

Chill out, he's 21. Consistancy will come, we're lucky to have him.

 

He is 22, when has Gaston Ramirez played well for 90 mins for Southampton. just curious?

[Gambol2K9]

When he plays well he's our messiah, when he goes off the boil he's a waste of money.

 

Unfortunately this is the bipolar, knee-jerk mentality of most on here. It's either an ecstasy of joy when we win or slit wrists when we don't.

 

I wonder how some of you lot function day to day.