Saintru Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Ramirez, a young guy still, first season in the prem and he is being bashed for going missing in the last 2 games. Ok I am concerned about his fitness as he only seems to last 60 mins before he cramps up, but he was superb against Everton until he faded and this was picked up by Sky. I do feel that GR has the X factor, but I think we are expecting too much. I am not saying he should be sub in the next game, this may be a good idea, but I think he can come on and create problems. We need players who can offer something different, a little bit of a trick, someone who can put another player through with a bit of vision, that is what GR offers. Stick with him be patient, he will be a great player for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 (edited) expecting too much....he was apparenly one of the most wanted 21 year olds in world football when we signed him.... to put in more than the odd 45 min shift is not asking too much.. remember when he sign, Tim Vickery said that he doubted Ramirez would be a success in England.......he has said the same about coutinho (another who we really wanted) we shall see..but he looks anything but a £12m player at the mo...and I doubt you would want saints to spend half that if you had seem him play all season for another club.. IF we stay up..and he does not dramatically improve..and it has to be dramatically...he will be off back to Italy quick enough Edited 3 February, 2013 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 If he was on loan with us, would you want to sign him now for £12m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Don't be daft lad, remember all the ****s who whined about Morgan, Cork, Yoshida, Puncheon etc. etc. they won't give anyone time to settle in. Oh and if the lad has fitness problems why didn't Adkins get him up to scratch when he was here?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 You know young players cost a lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 (edited) His value has gone down, he was a luxury buy that we did not need, we did not need players swanning around for a year to adjust as even the clapppers knew this was going to be tough, so therefore a waste of money and time. Edited 3 February, 2013 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 £16m on Ramirez and Mayuka looks like a huge waste atm Agree we need to give both time but £16m OUCH!! Did Adkins lose his job for these 2? Someone should!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 His value has gone down, he was a luxury buy that we did not need, we did not need players swanning around for a year to adjust as even the clapppers knew this was going to be tough, so therefore a waste of money and time. Doubt that is accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Think people have forgotten games like Arsenal, when without him we'd not have created anything. TDD has something happened recently chap? Couldn't be more negative lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 On the fence - he's put in some absolutely fantastic performances as well as some poor ones. One of those players (like Puncheon) who seems to be great when things are going well, but disappear a bit if they're not. Definitely think he's struggled to adapt to the English game... in particular a lack of protection from refs. Countless times have seen him turn on a burst of pace, get a nudge or block and go over, and he's expecting a free kick that doesn't come - sat there looking at the ref with his arms raised. Yesterday he wasn't great, and though the finish was poor, how many other players do we have - or have we ever had - that would have made a bursting run through defence like that? He also played an absolutely sublime pass to put Rodriguez in down the right a little later in the half. Has shown flashes of brilliance and needs more consistency. But if he finds it, he will be a heckuva player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Maybe he would be better as a super sub type role for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Hasnt his dad recently died??? Maybe he's just not fully focused which is understandable IMO. He's shown enough glimpses to suggest he's a talent, but not consistently yet. I think he will prove to be a good addition in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints boy in Leeds Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Ramirez, a young guy still, first season in the prem and he is being bashed for going missing in the last 2 games. Ok I am concerned about his fitness as he only seems to last 60 mins before he cramps up, but he was superb against Everton until he faded and this was picked up by Sky. I do feel that GR has the X factor, but I think we are expecting too much. I am not saying he should be sub in the next game, this may be a good idea, but I think he can come on and create problems. We need players who can offer something different, a little bit of a trick, someone who can put another player through with a bit of vision, that is what GR offers. Stick with him be patient, he will be a great player for us. I agree, I'm expecting MP to sign a few other top players in the summer to make us turn draws to wins, COYR, the futures bright ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Without a doubt he's struggling to come to terms with the pace of the PL. If he's as good as his price tag, he will do that and then allied to his natural ability we will have a super star on our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 When will you lot realize: our evolving style of play is not suiting him! Think of when he has been at his best this season: Villa home, Newcastle home, etc. and think why he was playing brilliantly - we as a team were giving him space and opportunity to prosper. I don't know how many of you have watched Bologna games from last season (I've seen a few), but you'll notice he needs space and almost always looks to receive the ball facing the goal. He loves to run onto through-balls and have runners ahead of him. Dropping deep is what he's all about. He likes to spread the play and create as much space for himself and others as possible. Against Villa and Newcastle, for instance, we were not so keen on passing the ball around barcelona-style in our oppopnents' half. Perhaps we were desperate for the wins, but it was all out bombardment. Quick passing right from their penalty box to ours, allowing Gaston to thrive. No hanging onto the ball in their half, bandying it around between Clyne - Cork - Morgan - Shaw, no dallying about waiting patiently for an opening (which is very hard to come by in the prem). One-touch, economical football is what Gaston is all about. That is why he is so much better when Adam is playing - same wavelength - both want to play quick give-and-go football as opposed to pass it around patiently. In other games, particularly away games, our game style revolves around pinning our opponents back and containing them as far up the pitch as possible. Space is limited as a result, and Gaston finds himself surrounded by three or four players before the ball gets to his feet. Likewise he more often than not receives the ball with his back to goal and for a flair-type player he is not ready to work his magic because he is absolutely clueless what to do - no willing runners (no space), no opportunity for flicks and tricks (no space) and all he can possibly do to keep possession is pass it back to Morgan or Cork - credit to him he does not look to do that - he still tries to somehow get himself out of the tight spot he finds himself in and play the ball forward. Unfortunately our style of play means 9 or ten men from the opposing team are in and around their penalty area - even Messi would struggle to do something then (Chelsea semi-final anyone?). Those who say he is not suited to the prem are clueless I am sorry to say. He knew what he was getting himself into and he knew he wanted to play in this league because it suits his style - I am 100% certain he would be thriving now if playing for Swansea, Stoke, West Brom etc. Why? Because they play the English game: fast one-touch passing, spreading the play, not giving the opponents time or space and always looking for runners ahead as opposed to looking back to their defensive midfielders in acres of space. We've switched to a continental style (Italian mostly - I wonder why...) and although prem teams find us hard to deal with, we also make life difficult for ourselves and one of our most talented players. At Bologna they used to always have wingers in the side, not attacking fullbacks - out-and-out wingers. Gaston's specialty is receiving the ball in lots of space, facing the goal and either going on mazy runs or feeding those wingers running ahead of him in acres of space. He hates playing the ball backwards - unfortunately in our system this commendable philosophy of his bites him in the arse and makes us all turn on him when the going gets tough. He is not to blame - our style of play is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonraker Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Just mentioned on 5 live that when Lucas arrived at Liverpool he did not impress the Scouse bed wetters were just the same as ours, now he is one of the first on the team sheet. Young players from overseas take time to bed in I am convinced GR will become a very important player for SFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 was poor yesterday, but he quite clearly looks a quality player. I'm more than happy to give him more time. I'm willing to bet that £12m will seem a snip come the end of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlavik Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He will prove saints fans wrong, like all the other players that saint fans bash on. He needs one season to get into english football and next season he will be awesome if we are still up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He was excellent against Everton, a game we shoudl definitely have won. People used to moan on about MLT, the finest player we have ever had, until they woke up to his amazing ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Hard for a manager to know what to do with a player that is good at home, always poor away and can't play for 90mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Just mentioned on 5 live that when Lucas arrived at Liverpool he did not impress the Scouse bed wetters were just the same as ours, now he is one of the first on the team sheet. Young players from overseas take time to bed in I am convinced GR will become a very important player for SFC. You do realise thats because their team is as weak as its been for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 His value has gone down, he was a luxury buy that we did not need, we did not need players swanning around for a year to adjust as even the clapppers knew this was going to be tough, so therefore a waste of money and time. Says it in a no nonsense direct manner. Well done ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Hasnt his dad recently died??? Maybe he's just not fully focused which is understandable IMO. He's shown enough glimpses to suggest he's a talent, but not consistently yet. I think he will prove to be a good addition in time. It was his mother-in-law, he went back to Uruguay to be with his wife in her time of need but I doubt that is the reason for his lack of form ! Personally I think that he has a lot of talent but has not yet adjusted to life in England ! Hopefully he will come good but IMHO it is folly to write him off so soon, then again there are people on this website who feel that a run of 4/5 poor results means that the manager should be sacked so we shouldn't really be surprised !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambol2K9 Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Why does his price tag keep being mentioned? Rate him based on his performance and potential. If you think we overpaid for him then blame the chairman, not the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Signing a player for £12m for his 'potential' when you're in your first season back in the Premier League, and survival in the main objective, is a dangerous game to play. Hopefully we stay up and he shines next season. But there's no denying he hasn't performed anywhere close to his pricetag. Flashes of brilliance, but a lot of misplaced passes, awful set pieces, wild shots and a general lack of interest at times are not what we needed this season, not when there was better value for money out there. If we go down we'll be very, very lucky to get a return on our investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambol2K9 Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 But how is it Ramirez's fault that we overpaid for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 But how is it Ramirez's fault that we overpaid for him? who is saying it is...footballers have and always will be judged against the money paid... hence why so many (rightly) think andy carroll was over priced at £35m... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 If he was on loan with us, would you want to sign him now for £12m? Yes! All at the club have commented on his talent his young in a new league and a foriegn country have patience and he will deliver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Signing a player for £12m for his 'potential' when you're in your first season back in the Premier League, and survival in the main objective, is a dangerous game to play. Hopefully we stay up and he shines next season. But there's no denying he hasn't performed anywhere close to his pricetag. Flashes of brilliance, but a lot of misplaced passes, awful set pieces, wild shots and a general lack of interest at times are not what we needed this season, not when there was better value for money out there. If we go down we'll be very, very lucky to get a return on our investment. However our plan is to put a young team together with an eye on the future! We saw the effect of signing so called premier experienced players and journeymen with Harry in 2005.I think we need to give this long term planning a go! yes it may fail but hey it might just give us a successful team for years to come could be an intersting journey with the team a few years off peaking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambol2K9 Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 who is saying it is...footballers have and always will be judged against the money paid... hence why so many (rightly) think andy carroll was over priced at £35m... The price tag is irrelevant when evaluating his performance. If Gaston was the one to value himself at £12m then fair play. If we had paid £3m for him then that doesn't suddenly make him a better player, it just makes it a shrewd move on behalf of Cortese. You can't decide on value for money until we sell him on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammysaint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 To be honest he shows hes got class, he just needs to be more psychical bottling challenges and not strong enough on the ball, players like Xavi and Messi who have no muscle and height hold the ball better then this fella, if he can get his balance and strength up he will be fine, prem takes time to adapt, for me i would have RL on the free kicks and keep him AMC, he is wasted at LM, as he doesn't do a job you expect from a winger, hes better getting the ball and releasing the ball to the wingers he plays some quality balls to Rickie who if he was a bit quicker would be on them and would have more goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Besides, plenty of players have had hit and miss first seasons and gone on to be brilliant. I'd hope for a little patience. Bergkamp, Henry and Drogba to name just three didn't exactly look brilliant early on. Doesn't mean Gaston will reach those heights, but surely support him while he has a chance? Spot on, he has the talent, and is getting use to English football. He will be a great, and I hope it is with Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Those clubs has the luxury of fannying about at the top of the league though, if we were at the top of the league we would not be worrying but we aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambol2K9 Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 That's not the point being made though. What's being said is that a player's pricetag should have no bearing on how you rate his performance or ability. Disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 That is correct we are investing in the future, and I still think he has a very big one with Saints! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 That's not the point being made though. What's being said is that a player's pricetag should have no bearing on how you rate his performance or ability. Disagree? disagree really....as very much, the level of performance is reflected in the price tag...there is a reason why richard chaplow will never ever be sold for £12m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmaul Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Is Ramirez the new Guly, just wanted to keep up to speed on the latest foreign guy we're making boo noises at. Let me guess, "he goes missing" "lazy" etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Is Ramirez the new Guly, just wanted to keep up to speed on the latest foreign guy we're making boo noises at. Let me guess, "he goes missing" "lazy" etc. It's not like that at all, is it? The majority recognise that Rameriz is a very talented individual, but have witnessed that he's not getting as involved in away games as someone of his talent should be. I'm still of the belief that he's not a player in away games for us, at this moment in time. I wouldn't write him off though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Tbh I dont think Ramirez had recovered 100% from the first dead leg injury as his form seems to have dipped since then. This current injury maybe a continuation of the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 That's not the point being made though. What's being said is that a player's pricetag should have no bearing on how you rate his performance or ability. Disagree? Of course it does. If you buy an expensive car and it keeps going wrong, you'd be annoyed right? Whereas if you bought an old banger for £100 you'd take it on the chin and get a better car. No wonder clubs are in so much debt if price doesn't = performance any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Of course it does. If you buy an expensive car and it keeps going wrong, you'd be annoyed right? Whereas if you bought an old banger for £100 you'd take it on the chin and get a better car. No wonder clubs are in so much debt if price doesn't = performance any more. Not really a valid comparison, imho. I've been as frustrated as anyone about Gastons performances of late, but he has clearly been bought in as a young talent to nurture, rather than a redknapp-type over the hill player who can maybe do a job til the end of the season. Lets face it, how many of us were overwhelmed by J-Rod when he first arrived, and thought "f*cking hell, thats £7M well spent??" We're just now starting to see why he was brought in, and its paying off in spades. I reckon Ramirez will live up to the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Besides, plenty of players have had hit and miss first seasons and gone on to be brilliant. I'd hope for a little patience. Bergkamp, Henry and Drogba to name just three didn't exactly look brilliant early on. Doesn't mean Gaston will reach those heights, but surely support him while he has a chance? Is anyone saying they won't support him? Would you start him in our next game if fit? Would you start him in our next away game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He was excellent against Everton, a game we shoudl definitely have won. People used to moan on about MLT, the finest player we have ever had, until they woke up to his amazing ability. I like you LS, you're my kind of mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom28 Posted 4 February, 2013 Share Posted 4 February, 2013 There really are some prize ****s on here. Forget what we paid; does having Gaston in the matchday squad make us stronger than not having him in the matchday squad? If you answer 'No' to that question, then you're a clueless ****wit. FWIW, I think he will become a top top player in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 4 February, 2013 Share Posted 4 February, 2013 There really are some prize ****s on here. Forget what we paid; does having Gaston in the matchday squad make us stronger than not having him in the matchday squad? If you answer 'No' to that question, then you're a clueless ****wit. FWIW, I think he will become a top top player in the PL. Valid responce there Thomas, your point got across to us doubters................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 4 February, 2013 Share Posted 4 February, 2013 Of course it does. If you buy an expensive car and it keeps going wrong, you'd be annoyed right? Whereas if you bought an old banger for £100 you'd take it on the chin and get a better car. No wonder clubs are in so much debt if price doesn't = performance any more. Pointless example. We are rating / discussing / bashing him on here, but we did not decide to buy him. An old banger of a car will never improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfc Posted 4 February, 2013 Share Posted 4 February, 2013 Ramirez has been one of our best players this season. His fitness and strength will improve in the coming years. Some people in this thread are utterly ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfc Posted 4 February, 2013 Share Posted 4 February, 2013 There really are some prize ****s on here. Forget what we paid; does having Gaston in the matchday squad make us stronger than not having him in the matchday squad? If you answer 'No' to that question, then you're a clueless ****wit. FWIW, I think he will become a top top player in the PL. Exactly, quite frankly abuse is the only thing these thick ***** deserve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 4 February, 2013 Share Posted 4 February, 2013 Ramirez has been one of our best players this season. His fitness and strength will improve in the coming years. Some people in this thread are utterly ignorant. That may very well be the case but to stay in the PL surely we need players to perform consistently well and spending 90 mins on the Pitch helping us win matches. He appears to bwe the right player at the wrong time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 4 February, 2013 Share Posted 4 February, 2013 Exactly, quite frankly abuse is the only thing these thick ***** deserve! An opinion that Gaston Ramirez has been an expensive luxury is a very valid one, what has he done to justfy his price tag? Saying he will get better and will improve is simplistic and obvious, of course he will or he should as he is 22, the issue is has he justified the £12 Million we have so far paid for him, has he justified his wages, has his performances been good enough and did we need to buy a luxury player when we knew our squad (most did anyway) were going to struggle ie shoudl we of bought experienced players for the division and bought players like Ramirez when we were established in the League, these are very valid opinions and concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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