Southampton: town full of Polish?

[pap]

As I was walking back to Wigan North Western from the game last night, had to travel over the canal footbridge. Some Wigan monkeys giving it large on the other side of the bridge, shouting "you're just a town full of Polish". Earlier in the day, we shared a table with a Saints fan and his wife that had moved from Shirley into the Waterside 'burbs. He cited the transformation of Shirley to meet its new international needs as a major factor ( he didn't say that exactly ).

 

It occurs to me that Southampton, with its very high ratio of newcomers to original denizens, might be a uniquely qualified city to speak on the effects of rapid inward EU migration.

 

What are your experiences, good or bad?

[dronskisaint]

It's a very shiny town!

[pap]

It's a very shiny town!

 

 

First fecking reply! Right, got that out of your system, dronski?

[Tokyo-Saint]

I live in New Malden and my neighbors are Polish. The guy is a good bloke, the woman a bit moody but generally both good people. Used to live in a conversion in London with Polish people up stairs as well. One thing can be said about both very different groups - they are bloody noisy!

[pap]

I live in New Malden and my neighbors are Polish. The guy is a good bloke, the woman a bit moody but generally both good people. Used to live in a conversion in London with Polish people up stairs as well. One thing can be said about both very different groups - they are bloody noisy!

 

Knew a chap from Latvia who would disagree with you.

 

"Polish peoples are bad peoples", as he liked to say.

 

However, he liked to say a load of other stuff too, most of it more racist than that.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Marian Pahars was a terrible xenephob Pap but scored exceeding good goals.

[Weston Super Saint]

Does it really matter?

 

The Polish originally migrated to the UK to work - nothing sinister about that - and traditionally they took on roles at the lower end of the job scale such as farm hands, pot washers, kitchen hands etc, the jobs that the unemployed of the UK didn't want to look at because doing that sort of physical labour didn't appeal to them considering they could earn the same amount of money - generally more! - by sitting around the house and watching Jeremy Kyle whilst claiming benefits! Given the choice of employing a Polish person to work in the kitchen - when I was running pubs and restaurants - or an unemployed British person, it was always a simple choice, choose the Polish person with a work ethic over the lazy British one every day of the week!

 

You have to remember that the Poles migrated to England shortly after the collapse of the Communist party in their own country which led to pretty awful working conditions, so doing manual labour over here was a far more pleasant alternative!

 

Having said that, yes, you will get some of the dregs from their society living here, which is inevitable, but by and large they are a friendly nation who just want to earn and living and raise their kids the best they can. I can't see a great deal of harm in that to be honest! My opinion may be slightly skewed, due to me having a Polish Mrs for the last 12 years

 

Our neighbours are Czech and also very friendly, hard working people who have a better standard of life over here than they had in the Czech republic - we no longer live in Southampton, so can't comment on Shirley....

 

Personally I wouldn't begrudge anyone from any nation with which we have open borders, the opportunity to live in the country and earn a reasonable wage for a reasonable days work, well maybe the French!

 

Also, according to the BBC, Polish is now the second most common language in the UK.

[Essruu]

People want to come to live in Southampton, whereas Liverpool is famous for people wanting to leave it on emigration boats. The only people who flock to Liverpool are Irish - enough said.

[scotty]

People want to come to live in Southampton, whereas Liverpool is famous for people wanting to leave it on emigration boats. The only people who flock to Liverpool are Irish - enough said.

 

A lot like portsmouth, which has an "Out of city" signpost at every junction.

 

 

Back on topic, I go to Shirley a fair bit, living just down the road in Nursling, and sure, its full of Poles. They seem fine to me, and most of them seem to be working. It must be a bit of a hotspot given the number of Polish shops along there, cant see a problem myself. If they come here to work and pay their way, then fair play to them.

[Tokyo-Saint]

I haven't been to Shirley in years, long before the poles came. It used to be like land of the living dead so any new community moving in there would benefit the area, especially if they have a work ethic.

[rpb]

Does it really matter?

 

Personally I wouldn't begrudge anyone from any nation with which we have open borders, the opportunity to live in the country and earn a reasonable wage for a reasonable days work, well maybe the French!

 

Precisely!

[pap]

I don't really have strong feelings on the issue, although ms pap moans about the number of Polish shops in the area. She also moans about other stuff too, such as the number of bookies, pawn shops and off licenses, so it's not like she is singling out Polish shops.

 

The bloke I was talking to yesterday was in his late fifties / early sixties. From his perspective, the migration of Eastern Europeans into Shirley had changed his neighbourhood to such an extent that he and his wife felt they had to leave. For him, it was the day-to-day stuff, simple things that he used to take for granted, that seemed to bother him. He also cited multi-occupancy as something that had changed the character of Shirley.

 

Gotta say, my left-wing judgemental side wanted to call this bloke a giant racist, but I couldn't really ascribe that label to him. He was just a bloke whose world had changed at a stage in his life where he was not able to change with it.

[Thedelldays]

I don't really have strong feelings on the issue, although ms pap moans about the number of Polish shops in the area. She also moans about other stuff too, such as the number of bookies, pawn shops and off licenses, so it's not like she is singling out Polish shops.

 

The bloke I was talking to yesterday was in his late fifties / early sixties. From his perspective, the migration of Eastern Europeans into Shirley had changed his neighbourhood to such an extent that he and his wife felt they had to leave. For him, it was the day-to-day stuff, simple things that he used to take for granted, that seemed to bother him. He also cited multi-occupancy as something that had changed the character of Shirley.

 

Gotta say, my left-wing judgemental side wanted to call this bloke a giant racist, but I couldn't really ascribe that label to him. He was just a bloke whose world had changed at a stage in his life where he was not able to change with it.

its quite sad that you feel naturally inclined to label someone a racist in this issue...

[miserableoldgit]

I think that there have been quite large Polish communities in both Southampton and Eastleigh since the war. They`ve just got bigger recently.

[littleoldladysaint]

Poles were employed by the Council in the 1950's to lay mains drains in Oak Close (Redbridge).

[pap]

its quite sad that you feel naturally inclined to label someone a racist in this issue...

 

That only really works if the left wing judgemental side of me is all there is, Jamie.

 

Be a bit like if the ill-advised one-liner constituted your entire personality.

Edited 4 February, 2013 by pap

[Hockey_saint]

I used to maybe think a bit like Mrs' Pap there (I still think you can judge the poverty of a neighbourhood by the number of pubs, bookies and pawnbrokers there are) BUT; Firstly, you have to realise, no one invaded anyone. They were invited here and by in large, they are generally very hard working. We also have the option to move to Poland or any other EU state and use their facilities such as healthcare systems if we wish.

 

Thomas Jefferson (the irritating francophile that he was) suggested a united states of europe hundreds of years ago and it is a good idea, we just need to embrase it...we have overcrowding? then move to a part of europe that hasn't got it...but what we really need to do is work on a pay harmonisation throughout the union. Also, I live in Shirley and frankly, it's been a tip for quite some time.

[Saint137]

Nothing particularly new, there's been big Polish communities in the south for years. Pre-war Reading had a big community, there's been a Polish Catholic church there for decades. Loads came here after WW2 because they couldn't go home, and these were people who fought hard in the Battle of Britain and up through Italy. One unit was formed from people who had been captured by the Russians, used for slave labour, freed, walked to Afghanistan/Iran, and joined the British Army. Great film called "The Way Back" covers some of this. Also see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_migration_to_the_United_Kingdom#Second_World_War_period for how vital they were to the war effort (particularly cracking early Enigma codes)

[Barry Sanchez]

Highly doubtful the battle of Britain could of been won without the Poles (or it would of been prolonged with more lives lost), 303 squadron, The ignorant will always throw the r word about without even thinking.

[dronskisaint]

First fecking reply! Right, got that out of your system, dronski?

 

Sorry...but really someone had to!

[pap]

Highly doubtful the battle of Britain could of been won without the Poles (or it would of been prolonged with more lives lost), 303 squadron, The ignorant will always throw the r word about without even thinking.

 

Whereas the truly dim witted poster will insist that nasty ol' pap never engages with him again via PM, then re-open hostilities with a thinly veiled attack.

 

Good job, Bazza.

[alpine_saint]

I hate the sh*t the Poles are getting in the UK (actually, they get slagged off here too)

 

My personal experience of them is a polite, honest, hard-working people. Every nationality has its bad eggs, and theirs are no worse than meat-headed mongs with "Made in England" tatooed on their knuckles.

 

My own experience of them in Soton (when we lived there from 2004-2008 ) :

 

They couldnt find enough places for the first school kids in central Soton schools, so my sons school (St. Patricks in Woolston) was swamped. The school really struggled to absorb the numbers and the varying grasps of English, and it caused temporary standards drop according to the very narrow benchmarks used by parents (not sure the OFSTED data agrees). As far as I am aware, the standards have recovered.

 

My parents neighbours are Polish, having worked their arses off and bought the house. No problems whatsoever encountered.

 

My neighbour is a bricklayer, and his business was devastated by the cheap job Polish brickies do. He of course *****ed about the quality of their work, but I wasnt convinced (though didnt say so, he was a big lad)

 

I noticed on Bitterne Precinct and Shirley High Street all the odd shops opening up.

 

Overall, I would say the Polish have caused no problems through being Polish. However, I can see how the sheer numbers put a massive strain on central services. Only a while back Soton City Council were consolidating school places by merging schools, are they reversing that trend now ? The UK has one of the highest birth rates in Europe.

[alpine_saint]

Highly doubtful the battle of Britain could of been won without the Poles (or it would of been prolonged with more lives lost), 303 squadron, The ignorant will always throw the r word about without even thinking.

 

The bit in the film where they ignore their CO and blow the Nazis out of the sky, during their training flight thats caught in the middle of an air battle, and they all answer "repeat please" when he shouts at them as they break formation, is f**king hillarious.

[pap]

And the award for most reasoned response to OP goes to Alpine Saint.

[dubai_phil]

Personally have found they split into two stereotypes. The hard working ones who simply want to get on and improve. The main difference I see between them and small section "Brit stereotypes" is that they never feel that they are owed something for nothing.

 

I do also see another side on my trips to Poland. A lot of marriages where the man of the house is frustrated by lack of opportunities or lack of dreams and an easy and quick spiral into a very depressive view of the world and alcohol issues. These men just seem very "grey". Result is a lot of Polish girls who had their dreams trapped into living back in their extended families raising their kids alone and without state support structures.

 

Perhaps the best impact they could have on the Society in UK is their strong family links. (No, not necessarily importing 500 family members each as some early Immigrant waves did), but in keeping those traditions alive in their new home and helping their kids build the close family ties in the UK - The point that Pap mentioned about the bloke - multiple occupancy - is a real system in Poland.

 

I find it weird but FMDP's 6 cousins all share the family house with Mum Dad & Granny, her newly wed brother has created a virtual äpartment"in his parents home where he lives with his wife and her sisters' son from first marriage lives there as well.

 

Would drive me bonkers BUT it gives a great support structure and helps the kids growing up in a secure environment and there is always a baby sitter.

 

For us old timers on here, there are many stunning parts of Poland, land and property is as cheap as chips, and as long as you don't want to travel massive distances in the winters and have damned good insulation it is a great place to consider retiring to, your pension will go a lot further than it would in Iberia for example

[Saintandy666]

Surely the argument here shouldn't be over personal opinion's of people who happen to be from Poland's personalities. Like anywhere in the world, you will find people from Poland you like and people that you don't.

 

The argument needs to be over relative contribution, both economic and cultural to the UK. And for what it is worth, I think Poles have contributed a lot to the UK in recent years.

[pap]

Surely the argument here shouldn't be over personal opinion's of people who happen to be from Poland's personalities. Like anywhere in the world, you will find people from Poland you like and people that you don't.

 

The argument needs to be over relative contribution, both economic and cultural to the UK. And for what it is worth, I think Poles have contributed a lot to the UK in recent years.

 

Is there an argument? As the OP states, this is about experiences. I've provided a couple vicariously. Dubai_phil and Alps have given good accounts.

 

My problem with issues like these is that they are swept under the carpet. The Poles haven't really made much difference to my life, but then I spend most of my time in my own house.

 

Thus, my experiences all tend to be second-hand, and the only time I see the effects of immigration referenced is in the recurring EU debates.

[Thedelldays]

Is there an argument? As the OP states, this is about experiences. I've provided a couple vicariously. Dubai_phil and Alps have given good accounts.

 

My problem with issues like these is that they are swept under the carpet. The Poles haven't really made much difference to my life, but then I spend most of my time in my own house.

 

Thus, my experiences all tend to be second-hand, and the only time I see the effects of immigration referenced is in the recurring EU debates.

if anyone comes over, works, pays their way then there can be no arguement and should be welcome

if they dont work, and pretty much live off the state, then they should be sent back, pretty sharpish...the country is broke and we pay enough for people to do very little.....

[pap]

if anyone comes over, works, pays their way then there can be no arguement and should be welcome

if they dont work, and pretty much live off the state, then they should be sent back, pretty sharpish...the country is broke and we pay enough for people to do very little.....

 

So you have no problem with uncontrolled unlimited migration as long as people take a job when they get here?

[Thedelldays]

So you have no problem with uncontrolled unlimited migration as long as people take a job when they get here?

no...people should not be able to come in unless employers are able to prove there is a job for them to come to and that said job is unable to be filled by someone who is already here (regardless of colour, nationality).....said people who are allowed in should have to prove funds or the like in a demonstration on how they intend to support themselves from the off

[pap]

no...people should not be able to come in unless employers are able to prove there is a job for them to come to and that said job is unable to be filled by someone who is already here (regardless of colour, nationality).....said people who are allowed in should have to prove funds or the like in a demonstration on how they intend to support themselves from the off

 

So as long as their employer says they have a job, you are in favour of unlimited immigration?

[pap]

no...people should not be able to come in unless employers are able to prove there is a job for them to come to and that said job is unable to be filled by someone who is already here (regardless of colour, nationality).....said people who are allowed in should have to prove funds or the like in a demonstration on how they intend to support themselves from the off

 

Soz, just missed the bit about "unable to be filled by someone else". How would employers prove that?

[Thedelldays]

So as long as their employer says they have a job, you are in favour of unlimited immigration?

you know what I mean pap..you are going to keep asking leading questions in order for you to find a slip in my views that are being typed on my phone...

[pap]

you know what I mean pap..you are going to keep asking leading questions in order for you to find a slip in my views that are being typed on my phone...

 

No, I think it's great that you've had an about turn of views in the last few days, mate.

[Thedelldays]

No, I think it's great that you've had an about turn of views in the last few days, mate.

I clearly havent have I pap..nice try....

 

unless there is an unlimited supply of jobs...please show me where this is the case...or there are the grand total of 0 people unemployed already in this country..

 

you know full well that I think all immigration should be stopped bar the absolutely essential cases of skilled workers.....and you pretty much agreed to a point...

[pap]

I clearly havent have I pap..nice try....

 

unless there is an unlimited supply of jobs...please show me where this is the case...or there are the grand total of 0 people unemployed already in this country..

 

you know full well that I think all immigration should be stopped bar the absolutely essential cases of skilled workers.....and you pretty much agreed to a point...

 

Sorry mate (again!)

 

This post, made a few posts ago, contradicts your current view.

 

if anyone comes over, works, pays their way then there can be no arguement and should be welcome

if they dont work, and pretty much live off the state, then they should be sent back, pretty sharpish...the country is broke and we pay enough for people to do very little.....

 

Which is it?

 

Anyone who comes here to work, or what you've just said?

 

Probably a good idea to get yourself straight on this one, guv.

[Thedelldays]

Sorry mate (again!)

 

This post, made a few posts ago, contradicts your current view.

 

 

 

Which is it?

 

Anyone who comes here to work, or what you've just said?

 

Probably a good idea to get yourself straight on this one, guv.

yes, they should be welcome (in the current system)....the free loaders should not be...

 

if I had my way, I would shut the doors...but you know that pap. you just like a good old internet tear up

[pap]

yes, they should be welcome (in the current system)....the free loaders should not be...

 

if I had my way, I would shut the doors...but you know that pap. you just like a good old internet tear up

 

Specifically, I like it when someone rolls in half-cocked without any genuine convictions, forgetting that people are incapable of remembering things or indeed, scrolling up the page to re-read.

 

My absolute favourite part is when said antagonist tries to use a temporary opinion to besmirch another poster, then has that temporary opinion exposed for the facile opportunist claptrap it really is.

 

You'd think it'd get old, but years later, I'm still getting a kick out of it.

[Thedelldays]

Specifically, I like it when someone rolls in half-cocked without any genuine convictions, forgetting that people are incapable of remembering things or indeed, scrolling up the page to re-read.

 

My absolute favourite part is when said antagonist tries to use a temporary opinion to besmirch another poster, then has that temporary opinion exposed for the facile opportunist claptrap it really is.

 

You'd think it'd get old, but years later, I'm still getting a kick out of it.

do give it a rest pap.....you really are the liberal version of Dune and you have completely filled the void he left behind

 

I will leave you to your guardian loving pals on here....enjoy..

 

 

 

*imagines pap thumping his chest in some sort of triumph of liberalism in taking every post literally

[pap]

do give it a rest pap.....you really are the liberal version of Dune and you have completely filled the void he left behind

 

I will leave you to your guardian loving pals on here....enjoy..

 

*imagines pap thumping his chest in some sort of triumph of liberalism in taking every post literally

 

Sorry sir, but I cannot claim that felicity. Literally no-one is championing the causes of Rhodesia or Gibraltar these days.

[Thedelldays]

Sorry sir, but I cannot claim that felicity. Literally no-one is championing the causes of Rhodesia or Gibraltar these days.

self denial is a poor trait...

[scotty]

Gooooood Morning Vietnam, and welcome to the Pap and Jamie Show!!!!

[pap]

Gooooood Morning Vietnam, and welcome to the Pap and Jamie Show!!!!

 

I think I'm done. Anything further will be pointless or sarcastic.

[Minsk]

I originate from Eastleigh, and there have always been a fair few Poles there. My dad worked with many on the railway. Never had a problem with any of them.

 

Obviously, I now live in a country which borders Poland (and shares most of its history). From all I've seen and heard Poles and Belorusians have very similar traditions (probably because of the historical links). I fully appreciate DPs mentions of family ties and multiple occupancy - it is exactly like that here (fortunately, not in my household).

 

One thing I am certain of from my trips back home though, there are far more attractive females living in Southampton nowadays; the vast majority of which all seem to speak English with foreign accents.

[theyin]

Britain is not only a nation of shopkeepers but also an immigrant nation. From the Romans to the Saxons, Vikings, French of William the Conqueror's reign through to the Huguenots, Jews from every nation where they were persecuted, all manner of other persecuted peoples from all over Europe, Spanish from the Civil War, prisoners of war and allies who stayed behind after WW2.

 

I would love to go into the family history of a hundred of the most ardent racists and show a fair few of them that their ancestors were from overseas.

[Clapham Saint]

I would love to go into the family history of a hundred of the most ardent racists and show a fair few of them that their ancestors were from overseas.

 

I seem to remember a TV programme a few years ago during which they took a DNA sample (with his consent) from Nick Griffin to look at his genetic ancestry.

 

He was convinced that he would be british to the core and was gutted to be told that his great grand parents were most likely Belgian (or something similar). I think in the end he just dismissed the results as a fabrication.

 

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