Lighthouse Posted 2 February, 2013 Share Posted 2 February, 2013 2 minor points. 1. Forren hasn't played because he is recovering from a minor injury. Hence he hasn't even been on the bench. 2. Don't talk to Dalek. Watch, I will show you how it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Share Posted 2 February, 2013 2 minor points. 1. Forren hasn't played because he is recovering from a minor injury. Hence he hasn't even been on the bench. 2. Don't talk to Dalek. Watch, I will show you how it's done. Don't talk to me ? If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 2 February, 2013 Share Posted 2 February, 2013 because he looks anything but a £12m player.. cant imagine any team in this country anyway will pay £12m for him the way he is playing... Not picking on this post particularly but seems as good as any. Just watched the first half on Football first. I know when a result doesnt go the way you want it, it's easy to rant but really come on chaps. Those slating Ramirez should watch that half again before making him the scapegoat. Apart from that, admittedly, shocking miss I thought he did OK. In fact Puncheon was by far our most frustrating player in the first 45 mins, consistently over hitting crosses and running up blind alleys. The sum we paid for Gaston is hardly his fault, but it seems to be the reason for him taking over as the new Guly. There's a decent article on Jordan Henderson on the Guardian website which seems rather apt in the circumstances. While I appreciate we haven't exactly got time for players to get to grips with this league, some of them are going to need more than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 2 February, 2013 Share Posted 2 February, 2013 Not picking on this post particularly but seems as good as any. Just watched the first half on Football first. I know when a result doesnt go the way you want it, it's easy to rant but really come on chaps. Those slating Ramirez should watch that half again before making him the scapegoat. Apart from that, admittedly, shocking miss I thought he did OK. In fact Puncheon was by far our most frustrating player in the first 45 mins, consistently over hitting crosses and running up blind alleys. The sum we paid for Gaston is hardly his fault, but it seems to be the reason for him taking over as the new Guly. There's a decent article on Jordan Henderson on the Guardian website which seems rather apt in the circumstances. While I appreciate we haven't exactly got time for players to get to grips with this league, some of them are going to need more than others. Very sensible post IMHO. We're just about seeing the light with JRod, so it seems odd to write off Gaston so quickly. Does it have to be so polarised that he is either great or crap? I quite like the idea of what a confident and fully fit Gaston could bring to the team, even though I do acknowledge that he is not contributing as heavily as he may be expected. For now, I will hope that he will take his performances to the next level and become an important player to the team. I see no reason to write him off just to prepare for a possible "I told you so" moment in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He didn't have a great game today. The form of Davis and Lallana at the moment should get them starts next week. Unfortunately, Gaston will have to make way. But don't write him off, he is too good a player. He will come good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 There appears to be an outbreak of sanity on this thread, someone stamp it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Perhaps we need a poll, who is the worst Saints player Guly or Ramirez. For F sake give both players a break, they both have talent, and perhaps they try taking that 1 more player on than they need to, but then again Puncheon and LLanna do the same. Things will eventually click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Don't talk to me ? If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 we need a poll, who is the worst Saints player Guly or Ramirez What good would that do? Silly idea imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I've been one of his biggest defenders on here, but today he was appalling. I genuinely think he will be a big talent in the future but for the here and now, he needs to be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 As merely an observer of his performances he appears to be someone who needs pushing more than coaxing. A big kick up the @rse should do it. Pochettino's the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Has dipped no question but first season, injuries, personal issues, a change in manager, played in a few positions .. who expected him to tear the league apart week in week out? For me he has shown flashes of brilliance and has, on ocassion, made the game look so easy. He will likely come good eventually and, if we start with jayrod punch and al instead, he's certainly one heck of a player to bring off the bench to turn a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty's Caddy Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I've said it before, you've got to give any import at least 6 months before you even begin to judge them. It's a massive culture shock on the field. Rodriguez is just about starting to come to terms with the PL by the looks of things, not long ago since he was a waste of money was it Please try and be patient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintchris23 Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 We paid £12m for Ramirez - could have got 1 or 2 from the below Adam Johnson for 10m Fraser Forster for £2m Steven Pienaar for £5m Steven Naismith for Free Kevin Mirallas for £5m Victor Moses for £9m Christian Benteke for £7m Michu for £2m Clint Dempsey for £6m Gylfi Sigurdsson for £7m Steven Fletcher for £12m Romelu Lukaku on loan Dimitar Berbatov for £5m Jan Vertonghen for £10m Lukas Podolski for £11m Julio Cesar for free Quite of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I think he's flattered to deceive from day one. No fight, a few touches here and there and that's it. People keep making excuses for him but in a Southampton shirt he's been pretty ordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Utter, utter garbage today. Completely wasted a glorious chance to score and did absolutely nothing else but run into trouble and give the ball away. £12m my ar$e. Easy answer to this question. When we sign a proven striker with pace so he's actually got someone who can get on the end of his through balls. Not sure how anyone's meant to stand out in a creative midfield role when the only option other than giving it away is passing it safe to a wide man. Missed a difficult chance today but still working hard and obviously being used to try and get us early goals, with Davis the back up for if the game instead turns into a war of attrition in midfield. The last two matches have needed a more defensive minded centre mid in the hole to regain possession high up the pitch as opposed to a more creative player with no outlet for his accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Gaston has a hell of a lot of talent but he has in the main been poor away from home. Needs to start on the bench. I believe he will come good though. Needs a kick up the arse and get to grips with playing away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 think this thread is complete bs myself, hes clearly one of the most talented players we have, ok hes a bit of a luxury at times but having him on the pitch theres always a chance he will produce something, what about the arsenal and everton games where he was aguarbly our best attackin player in both games ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Ramirez is a quality player. Arsene Wenger said that when he sign young player from abroad he expects about 50% performance in first season due to settling into country/culture. Ramirez is also younger than Rodriguez, Scheiderlin, Cork, Puncheon, Lallana and only few month older than Clyne - often noticed at home players looking to him when under pressure of stuck for ideas. Got feeling these threads will be yet more that show the usual suspects are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrey1saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Ramirez is a quality player. Arsene Wenger said that when he sign young player from abroad he expects about 50% performance in first season due to settling into country/culture. Ramirez is also younger than Rodriguez, Scheiderlin, Cork, Puncheon, Lallana and only few month older than Clyne - often noticed at home players looking to him when under pressure of stuck for ideas. Got feeling these threads will be yet more that show the usual suspects are wrong. Exactly,will take time for him to get completely up to pace in the Prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Ramirez is a quality player. Arsene Wenger said that when he sign young player from abroad he expects about 50% performance in first season due to settling into country/culture. Ramirez is also younger than Rodriguez, Scheiderlin, Cork, Puncheon, Lallana and only few month older than Clyne - often noticed at home players looking to him when under pressure of stuck for ideas. Got feeling these threads will be yet more that show the usual suspects are wrong. Another plus one. He will come right for us, just not now. Some people on here expect instant gratification. The irony is, that the desire for instant gratification is an American trait, and those same people are probably quite anti-American also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He was/is a complete waste on money at the moment when we need to dig in and consolidate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He was/is a complete waste on money at the moment when we need to dig in and consolidate Care to qualify that? You never actually said anything meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He was/is a complete waste on money at the moment when we need to dig in and consolidate Strangely, the only period this season we had relegation form was before he arrived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Care to qualify that? You never actually said anything meaningful. He was/is a complete waste on money at the moment when we need to dig in and consolidate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rshephard3 Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He was/is a complete waste on money at the moment when we need to dig in and consolidate The chairman doesn't want digging in and consolidating. He wants fast flowing attacking football to challenge the best teams in the league. Regardless of that, I would add that 'complete waste of money' is harsh. I expect him to start playing to his price tag from the start of next season. It's not like Lambert of Rodriguez who have dug in playing English football their whole lives. The tempo and frantic nature of football in England is totally different to other leagues (possibly barring bundesliga). It seems to especially take a bit of time for South American players to settle into the style of football expected of them but he will get there. Needs to get physically stronger and realise how little time he will ever have on the ball IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 The price tag has made some forget his age, and as another poster said on a separate thread not only is he still young but he is settling into a new country. He needs our support not people getting on his back - I don't doubt his quality for one second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Utter, utter garbage today. Completely wasted a glorious chance to score and did absolutely nothing else but run into trouble and give the ball away. £12m my ar$e. he is wasted on the left, especially in away games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He didn't have a great game today. The form of Davis and Lallana at the moment should get them starts next week. Unfortunately, Gaston will have to make way. But don't write him off, he is too good a player. He will come good. You seem to ignore what I think is crucial .... Ramirez is " Nicola's Buy ", so there is no way that he will " have to make way " Nigel either couldn't or wouldn't use him to his "strengths", so I sincerely Pochettina has better luck, because Nicola will NOT be seen as someone who has wasted £12 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 what you really have to ask yourselves is how many players have come from Italian football and really been consistent in the EPL ? Don't know the exact answer myself but I believe the figure will be staggeringly low and ridicoulous when a £s/success from Italy ratio is established. Gaston looked the real deal and still has at home from time to time but I expect that the number of games and the intensity of the matches is just grinding him down. Every time Morgan speaks to the French press he keeps telling them just how different English football is in pace and intensity so I guess it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewell Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I am just posing this as it has been fairly topical this week. In a relegation fight would you want a Christopher Samba or a Gaston Ramirez in your team? I know they are completely different positions and do completely different jobs but I thought I would pose it anyway. Samba for me, and a clean sheet for QPR yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tisspahars Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I'm a big Gaston fan. Whilst I concur that for a variety of reasons we have not got what we want out of him, I have no doubt about his talent and am desperate for him to do well. For these reasons, having read the match threads I was watching him on the extended Sky highlights through my fingers waiting for him to have a shocker - and he simply didn't. He was involved in our pressing up the field (he actually won the ball two or three times), played some nice balls and one fantastic ball that frankly should have led to a goal. The only negatives were a couple of things that didn't come off (they don't all) and one really poor miss (no excuses there). Whilst I would certainly have liked more from him (as I would many in the first half, he was much better than Puncheon for example) the accepted post match opinion that he was the worst player on the pitch who couldn't have cared less and did literally nothing is risible nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I am just posing this as it has been fairly topical this week. In a relegation fight would you want a Christopher Samba or a Gaston Ramirez in your team? I know they are completely different positions and do completely different jobs but I thought I would pose it anyway. Samba for me, and a clean sheet for QPR yesterday. Clean sheet, at home to Norwich, radio 5 said Samba looked unfit and off the pace of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I knew the moment he sat on the pitch rubbing the outside of his upper thigh late in the first half, he'd be off at HT. Several of our players are up for a relegation scrap (for that's what we are effectively in). Unfortunately, Gaston isn't one of them. I think by then he knew he was off anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I bet he will play next week and be brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWD Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 He's only young, and it's his first season in a new country. Yes he has been poor recently but there's no need to write him off completely. I seem to remember people doing that with a young Morgan Schniederlin in his first season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Either way, he is probably the least deserving to have a starting place at the mo. Maybe a few games out with an injury might be a blessing in disguise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WokingSaint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 But is he really fit? I saw somewhere on here yesterday that he had a 'dead leg' again. Has he recovered from the original injury that put him in hospital? There must be some reason that he is under performing because he obviously has tremendous ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 (edited) what you really have to ask yourselves is how many players have come from Italian football and really been consistent in the EPL ? Don't know the exact answer myself but I believe the figure will be staggeringly low and ridicoulous when a £s/success from Italy ratio is established. Gaston looked the real deal and still has at home from time to time but I expect that the number of games and the intensity of the matches is just grinding him down. Every time Morgan speaks to the French press he keeps telling them just how different English football is in pace and intensity so I guess it must be true. Di Matteo, Zola, Ravenelli, De Canio certainly come to mind not sure they have been any better or worse than any other European League in general such as Germans, Dutch, French etc in terms of settling in here! Also Gaston is Uruguayan and they are meant to be the country that plays a style most closely asscoiated to European than many of the other South Americans! (i.e. more physical than the Brazils etc.). There have also been quite a few Successful South Americans in the English leagues Argentinians Braziliansa as well as other Uruguayans (Poyet and Suarez) so not sure what your point is! He is only 21 a great talent and a long way from home so give the lad a chance and a bit of support to help him show his real ability! Edited 3 February, 2013 by Saint Without a Halo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 You seem to ignore what I think is crucial .... Ramirez is " Nicola's Buy ", so there is no way that he will " have to make way " Nigel either couldn't or wouldn't use him to his "strengths", so I sincerely Pochettina has better luck, because Nicola will NOT be seen as someone who has wasted £12 M Unsubstantiated hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 (edited) Di Matteo, Zola, Ravenelli, De Canio certainly come to mind not sure they have been any better or worse than any other European League in general such as Germans, Dutch, French etc in terms of settling in here! Also Gaston is Uruguayan and they are meant to be the country that plays a style most closely asscoiated to European than many of the other South Americans! (i.e. more physical than the Brazils etc.). There have also been quite a few Successful South Americans in the English leagues Argentinians Braziliansa as well as other Uruguayans (Poyet and Suarez) so not sure what your point is! He is only 21 a great talent and a long way from home so give the lad a chance and a bit of support to help him show his real ability! He's 22 and that's getting on a bit for a footballer these days. My point is that when you consider the vast sums that have gone from the PL to Italy for players who have just not made the grade here and have been pensioned off back to Italy at a loss it's no real surprise that Ramirez hasn't been an instant hit as of yet. The point is that there is a vast difference in style between Italian and English football and many a player is not capable of making the step up straight away. You cite Suarez but he came from Dutch football and not from Italy. If you count up the cards numbers in Italian football there have been 77 red cards so far this season and nigh on 1000 yellows. Refs do not tolerate certain types of tackle or jostling for the ball, the card comes straight out of the pocket for this type of intevention and players like Ramirez are over-protected. When they come into English 'proper' football they're just like fish out of water for a fair time. Edited 3 February, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Its not the first time a player from abroad has struggled to settle in this league, I suspect he is as frustrated as us. Hopefully MP and his boys can sort him out, and perhaps sort his head as I suspect that may be his biggest problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 he is wasted on the left, especially in away games But he didn't play on the left, Rodriguez did (and then Puncheon when they swapped round). Ramirez was in the hole and anonymous for all of the first half besides missing that chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 i think as other posters have said the main issue is how much we paid had we paid four of five million most people wouldn't be too disheartened that he wasnt as good as expected but this player was hyped up beyond belief we truely believed we were getting a world class player. People can make all the excuses they want but its clear hes not well suited to the premiership. Who really signed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ampersound Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Gaston will come good but you'll just have to wait until next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 3 February, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2013 Gaston will come good but you'll just have to wait until next season. And if we end up in the Championship as a result of his failure to settle, will he stay? I seriously doubt it. That's why I and many other are calling into question the logic of his signing. We needed players who would graft and do the job of keeping us up in the summer, not expensive luxury players who would take an entire season to settle into the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 And if we end up in the Championship as a result of his failure to settle, will he stay? I seriously doubt it. That's why I and many other are calling into question the logic of his signing. We needed players who would graft and do the job of keeping us up in the summer, not expensive luxury players who would take an entire season to settle into the PL. noone seems to answer this directly refering only to the fact that he is one for the future but who buys a 12 (14 with add ons) million pound player and doesnt expect them to be better than the other players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I'm a big Gaston fan. Whilst I concur that for a variety of reasons we have not got what we want out of him, I have no doubt about his talent and am desperate for him to do well. For these reasons, having read the match threads I was watching him on the extended Sky highlights through my fingers waiting for him to have a shocker - and he simply didn't. He was involved in our pressing up the field (he actually won the ball two or three times), played some nice balls and one fantastic ball that frankly should have led to a goal. The only negatives were a couple of things that didn't come off (they don't all) and one really poor miss (no excuses there). Whilst I would certainly have liked more from him (as I would many in the first half, he was much better than Puncheon for example) the accepted post match opinion that he was the worst player on the pitch who couldn't have cared less and did literally nothing is risible nonsense. Pretty much what I was trying to say but more eloquently put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 noone seems to answer this directly refering only to the fact that he is one for the future but who buys a 12 (14 with add ons) million pound player and doesnt expect them to be better than the other players? I expect he WILL be better one day. Even AL has talked about the quality he has and how great it is to work alongside him in training. Give him time. If he was twenty five, the complete product, a uruguay international, and aclimatised to the premiership how much do you think he'd have been sold for?!? I'l slate NC for plenty of other things but not for this signing. The lad has emmense potential and, if he doesnt fulfill it with us, I dont see us taking a massive financial hit. Consider it a strategic gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 3 February, 2013 Share Posted 3 February, 2013 I am just posing this as it has been fairly topical this week. In a relegation fight would you want a Christopher Samba or a Gaston Ramirez in your team? I know they are completely different positions and do completely different jobs but I thought I would pose it anyway. Samba for me, and a clean sheet for QPR yesterday. A good point but I do think it's entirely subjective to the particular team. A team with a water tight defense would want to sign Gaston a team with a leaky defense would want to sign Samba. QPR's defense has looked decidedly leaky recently whilst ours hasn't. It's easy to imagine Gaston not being a relegation dogfighter because he is young, foreign and a bit of a flair player. However his class could be the difference between us and teams like Reading and Villa. His skill was central to us beating Villa and it should have been the same against Arsenal but that lino had other ideas. In short. Becuase we've got Jos, Yoshi, Fonte and Forren I wouldn't want to sign Samba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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