smithy Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I' a big fan but have to agree, the miss today was woeful. I can only put it down to him thinking he was offside. Thinking he was offside???? What sort of excuse is that? He did the same thing against Villa with an open goal when we got that dodgy pen. Far too cocky and thinks he's better than he is. He needs to come down to earth a bit. Great player but a billy big balls I reckon.
kpturner Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 If we go down we will be lucky to get £7mill. Why? Being relegated doesn't reduce the value of your players automagically (not that we will be relegated of course). We made a decent profit on Crouch for example.
Glasgow_Saint Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 To be fair, Man City paid £28m for Silva. Chelsea paid 20m for Mata. Both of those 2 eased into life in the PL, and didn't really get going until their 2nd full season with the club. That's why staying up this year is massive. I dread to think what will happen if we don't. The fall out doesn't bear thinking about, which is why i'm trying not to think about it! But Chelsea and Man C can afford a gamble here n there. We cant or shouldnt. NC has taken two big gambles imho. Paying top dollar for Ramirez (risking us long term financially) and appointing Pinocchio (risking our Prem future) Both could turn out great.....but both are risks
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Why? Being relegated doesn't reduce the value of your players automagically (not that we will be relegated of course). We made a decent profit on Crouch for example. because he looks anything but a £12m player.. cant imagine any team in this country anyway will pay £12m for him the way he is playing...
aintforever Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 The price tag does not reflect a 'potential' we payed full dollar for a "great player" No, he's still young, we paid for potential. It's a sound policy, just hope we are not thinking too far beyond the end of the season and mess it all up in the process. As long as we have a decent plan in place should we go down and are not just gambling it's not a problem.
St Chalet Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 To be fair, Man City paid £28m for Silva. Chelsea paid 20m for Mata. Both of those 2 eased into life in the PL, and didn't really get going until their 2nd full season with the club. That's why staying up this year is massive. I dread to think what will happen if we don't. The fall out doesn't bear thinking about, which is why i'm trying not to think about it! Spot on with both points.
aintforever Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Why? Being relegated doesn't reduce the value of your players automagically (not that we will be relegated of course). We made a decent profit on Crouch for example. It generally does because Ramirez wont want to stay and we probably will have to get his wages off the books. Plus he looks a shadow of a £12mill player anyway, there is no way we would get that if desperate to sell in the championship.
Glasgow_Saint Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 because he looks anything but a £12m player.. cant imagine any team in this country anyway will pay £12m for him the way he is playing... QPR maybe?
kpturner Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 because he looks anything but a £12m player.. cant imagine any team in this country anyway will pay £12m for him the way he is playing... Whether or not he looks like a £12m player atm has no relevance to whether or not being relegated drops a players value - and that is the point I was responding to.
Give it to Ron Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 If Ramirez scores the goal that keeps us up and we then get the additional money from TV will that mean he is worth the 12m? Its not the players fault what the agents dictate...have a read of this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2271803/David-Sullivan-bullying-threats-violence-agent-demands-transfer-window.html#ixzz2JfTE5wDc Thats why I dont think its worth getting too uptight about the cost - one goal can change that...Forte is an example one game more than paid for his 4 year contract.
Saints foreva Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 And to think we could have had a far better player in Michu for £10m less....
Glasgow_Saint Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 We paid £12m for Ramirez - could have got 1 or 2 from the below Adam Johnson for 10m Fraser Forster for £2m Steven Pienaar for £5m Steven Naismith for Free Kevin Mirallas for £5m Victor Moses for £9m Christian Benteke for £7m Michu for £2m Clint Dempsey for £6m Gylfi Sigurdsson for £7m Steven Fletcher for £12m Romelu Lukaku on loan Dimitar Berbatov for £5m Jan Vertonghen for £10m Lukas Podolski for £11m Julio Cesar for free
kpturner Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I think we should start booing him for costing lots of money (except when he scores or sets one up).
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I think we should start booing him for costing lots of money (except when he scores or sets one up). what an odd comment
Glasgow_Saint Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I think we should start booing him for costing lots of money (except when he scores or sets one up). Not a good idea
kpturner Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 what an odd comment Not a good idea No kidding?? Let's shred him on a forum thread instead then.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 No kidding?? Let's shred him on a forum thread instead then. yeah....good idea
Monk Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 He's a luxury. Chill out, he'll be fine come season number two.
ottery st mary Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I have taken a second opinion from someone who has a clue........My daughter:D She is quite clear that Gaston Ramirez...... is a tremendous footballer and will be a star for the mighty Saints.... during our run in:) She was kind enough to look at some of the posters work on here... and the fred for Puncheon , Boruc , Jay Rod , Lambert , Lallana , Shaw etc.. SHE CAME TO THE CONCLUSION............THERE ARE A FEW IDIOTS ON THIS FORUM WHO SHOVEL OUT THE SAME SHIIITE ABOUT OUR GREAT PLAYERS.. and then meekly say ..I might have got that wrong.....after each one has p[roved them wrong... I will not dish the dirt..but there are 6 posters who have said the same clap trap about at least 5 or 6 ;)of the named players mentioned above... COYS
Glasgow_Saint Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 No kidding?? Let's shred him on a forum thread instead then. Not a good idea either.... He might read this n start playing badly
Webby Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 While I do think that gaston will come good, he's not doing it at the moment. In the last two games when Davis has come on, he, and the team, has looked better. Whether that be down to the personnel or the slight change in the way we play with Davis in instead of gaston I don't know. I'd start the next game with what has proved to be the strongest team, the team that has shown a significant improvement in the second halves of those last two games. Btw, in terms of value we haven't lost anything cos if gaston has slipped to 7m then jrod has stepped up to 12m cos he was magnificent today, he really was.
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I was bold enough at the time that Gaston was signed to say that we had been duped and that we should have been strengthening defence and GK. I said in the autumn we should sell and cut our losses but I was ridiculed. Now we have a manager that has slammed us into reverse ans is rapidly destroying the good work put in by NA. We are on a nose dive down to the Championship.
Webby Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Now we have a manager that has slammed us into reverse Really? Care to explain that? We went to man utd and matched them on their turf. 2nd half we were better than them.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Just back from Wigan and he was truly awful. My patience ran out today
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Really? Care to explain that? We went to man utd and matched them on their turf. 2nd half we were better than them. Look at our a defence, a total shambles for a start.
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Just back from Wigan and he was truly awful. My patience ran out today He was terrible. Davis should start in his place for the foreseeable future.
Webby Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Look at our a defence, a total shambles for a start. Jos isn't good enough. A forced change with Fonte injured and Forren not yet ready.
S-Clarke Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 He's a luxury. Chill out, he'll be fine come season number two. Exactly this, really. If we give up on him this season, we'll be looking on in 18months time thinking ''what if?''. He's genuine class, but not exactly the sort of player we need at this moment in time. For a club like us in our current position, we can't really sign the ''full article''. Our model is to buy young, potential and slowly build the team around it. Over time that will be rewarding to the extreme, but staying up this year is critical to it being a success. I still think we'll be ok, but today is still very disappointing as we were within touching distance of breaking away into the mid-table pack.
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Jos isn't good enough. A forced change with Fonte injured and Forren not yet ready. We spend £4 million on a player that has not even warmed the bench and needed to be here in September. We spend £12million on a player that could just about make the first 11 for Bashley but doesn't like to play in temperatures less than 20C
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 He was terrible. Davis should start in his place for the foreseeable future. Makes sense to me, loan him out AFCB
S-Clarke Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 We spend £4 million on a player that has not even warmed the bench and needed to be here in September. We spend £12million on a player that could just about make the first 11 for Bashley but doesn't like to play in temperatures less than 20C £3.5m actually, and he's injured at the moment. If you bothered to read the pre-match stuff, you'll read that in reality he's under-going a mini pre-season with us, as his season ended back in December and has done no training since then. Makes sense. Once he's fit though and gets his chance, I don't think we'll see him out of the team. I've heard lots about him, and not one negative.
Verbal Kint Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 He needs to be taken out of the team for a few games. It's clear that he is still in Serie A mode and needs/expects more time on the ball than you get in this league, particularly in the first half of games when the pace can be relentless. He starting dropping deeper in the first half to pick up the ball in positions where Wigan knew he couldn't hurt them. Have him on the bench to come on when we need him when he'll be fresh and have a bit more time on the ball playing against tired legs. Starting games at the moment he is a bit of a liability
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 £3.5m actually, and he's injured at the moment. If you bothered to read the pre-match stuff, you'll read that in reality he's under-going a mini pre-season with us, as his season ended back in December and has done no training since then. Makes sense. Once he's fit though and gets his chance, I don't think we'll see him out of the team. I've heard lots about him, and not one negative. Not one negative about Ramirez, suggest you read the post match reports mate !
Webby Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 We spend £4 million on a player that has not even warmed the bench and needed to be here in September. We spend £12million on a player that could just about make the first 11 for Bashley but doesn't like to play in temperatures less than 20C You said the manager had slammed us into reverse. How does the above back that up?
S-Clarke Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Not one negative about Ramirez, suggest you read the post match reports mate ! I was on about Forren...
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 He needs to be taken out of the team for a few games. It's clear that he is still in Serie A mode and needs/expects more time on the ball than you get in this league, particularly in the first half of games when the pace can be relentless. He starting dropping deeper in the first half to pick up the ball in positions where Wigan knew he couldn't hurt them. Have him on the bench to come on when we need him when he'll be fresh and have a bit more time on the ball playing against tired legs. Starting games at the moment he is a bit of a liability Can't we flog him off cheap and cut our losses ?
Webby Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Not one negative about Ramirez, suggest you read the post match reports mate ! Clearly he was talking about Forren.
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I was on about Forren... Well in that case you won't see a negative comment on the post match reports then will you ? After all he hasn't played yet as he is still getting used to the idea of being back at work after his Christmas holidays.
S-Clarke Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Well in that case you won't see a negative comment on the post match reports then will you ? After all he hasn't played yet as he is still getting used to the idea of being back at work after his Christmas holidays. You are an idiot. I said I'd heard lots about him, and not one of them was negative. I wasn't talking about our fans.
captainchris Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Exactly this, really. If we give up on him this season, we'll be looking on in 18months time thinking ''what if?''. He's genuine class, but not exactly the sort of player we need at this moment in time. For a club like us in our current position, we can't really sign the ''full article''. Our model is to buy young, potential and slowly build the team around it. Over time that will be rewarding to the extreme, but staying up this year is critical to it being a success. I still think we'll be ok, but today is still very disappointing as we were within touching distance of breaking away into the mid-table pack. Ok he will be better next season - meanwhile, if he's not good enough right now can we please drop him.....
S-Clarke Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Ok he will be better next season - meanwhile, if he's not good enough right now can we please drop him..... I'm happy to pull him out of the fire for a bit. Davis is better suited at the mo
Webby Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I'm happy to pull him out of the fire for a bit. Davis is better suited at the mo Indeed.
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 I'm happy to pull him out of the fire for a bit. Davis is better suited at the mo A tad disappointing when you think he cost us £12m. If he didn't have the price tag he would be loaned out to the likes of Southend by now.
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 You are an idiot. I said I'd heard lots about him, and not one of them was negative. I wasn't talking about our fans. You can call me an idiot if you like, the fact is that we have a hole the size of the milky way in defence and our new signing is swanning around St. Mary's 'getting himself fit' after his Christmas festivities !
maysie Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 You are an idiot. I said I'd heard lots about him, and not one of them was negative. I wasn't talking about our fans. Shouldn't bite should we!? - he is the poorest WUM on the whole forum
maysie Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 You can call me an idiot if you like, the fact is that we have a hole the size of the milky way in defence and our new signing is swanning around St. Mary's 'getting himself fit' after his Christmas festivities ! What do you suggest? SHould we have insisted on the Norwegian league being extended for our signing. You are an utter pillock.
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 Shouldn't bite should we!? - he is the poorest WUM on the whole forum You might well say that. I have never been afraid to speak my mind and call a spade a spade, if that is what you mean. Consensus, nope, say it as it is mate, that's my advice !
Webby Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 You can call me an idiot if you like, the fact is that we have a hole the size of the milky way in defence and our new signing is swanning around St. Mary's 'getting himself fit' after his Christmas festivities ! I see what you're thinking now. If the manager, as you say, slams us into reverse, we might be able to go back to the time when Forren was fit. Genius. Now, where did I leave that De Lorean?
Dalek2003 Posted 2 February, 2013 Posted 2 February, 2013 What do you suggest? SHould we have insisted on the Norwegian league being extended for our signing. You are an utter pillock. No, but I think that we could have planned ahead. We knew that we needed to strengthen at CB, identified our player before the end of the Norwegian season and brought him over right away at the start of the transfer window. He would have known full well that he is was going straight into the team and could have hit the ground running. We have been shambolic at strengthening key positions but faffed around all summer spending £12m on a player that people are now saying should be in the reserves !!!!
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