Cortese and Le Tissier arrange meeting

[ulstersaint]

A word to both - grow up girls!

[The Kraken]

Its all quite simple really before the Leibherrs took over the club obviously we were really in the schitt. But MLT, Lawrie, Benali and Mike Osman (dont hear much from him these days do you?) were making a small fortune from the Saints. Cortese comes in and says why are we paying this mob so much for doing so little ?

Result loads of "legends" with big chips on their shoulders.

I find it astounding that during some of the best years this club has had in recent history these guys are trying to undermine our club.

I am convinced most of them would prefer for us to be bobbing around in League One with themselves running the club.

 

Were they? How much were they making?

[Sour Mash]

Plus I found the bit about asking whether Benali has the Clubs interests at heart if he is suing the club a bit weird.

 

Not because I thought it was a Benali V Cortese issue, but instead the insinuation that even if you think the club have @%*ed you over, then you should just take it on the chin and let your love of the Club override natural justice.

 

Now wasn't this something we were having a pop at Pprtdmuff for when we were asking them to honour their debts and not suggest that their suppliers should be pressured in to writing off their debts.

 

I took back a dodgy Saints track suit I bought for my nephew recently, I presume I haven't got the Club's interests at heart if I'm asking for a refund!

That was my point several pages ago. Uneccesary dig at Benali there.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

Were they? How much were they making?

 

LM 70K. Think it was in the Echo.

[hypochondriac]

LM 70K. Think it was in the Echo.

 

And MLT?

[Saint Fan CaM]

Not happening now apparently. (Sky)

[Dig Dig]

I think that is what it boils down to and is why we will never agree on issues like MLT.

 

Bit laughable that this is your stance now when we've all seen your hissy fits over poor results in the last few seasons.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

And MLT?

 

 

No idea. I just remember seeing LM's amount in the paper.

[The Kraken]

LM 70K. Think it was in the Echo.

 

And what was he paid for? Hosting the Ambassador's club, the most prestigous and expensive corporate experience going at the time, which despite the cost was consistently full. A corporate experience which, by the way, isn't held any more since the club downgraded the quality and saw customers flock away. So, £70K for bringing in many hundreds of thousands of pounds of profit over a season.

 

Benali, MLT and Osman (to be fair if Osman was earning anything over a quid a match he was being overpaid, but then he's not in the same bracket as the others).

[Dig Dig]

To put it another way....

 

Aside from sourcing the investment in the first place, which parts of Cortese's role here have set him apart from other chairmen? What things has he done that have been a proper "wow, that was a really great business idea that not a lot of people would have thought of".

 

Well nothing revolutionary but a good balance between short term and long term planning, more investment in infrastructure than in players and player wages, solid protection of our player assets, continued emphasis on the success of the academy, improved global scouting, ability to implement visions and back to back promotions to the prem 2 years whilst slowly evolving the squad in a sensible manner.

 

Not just any old CEO would have done it in the same way and I have no complaints from a team perspective at all really. People also say the same about Adkins when it suits then but we've all been watching football long enough to know that things don't just happen because you throw money at it. It takes far more than that.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Or 70k for showing up on match day every couple of weeks and having a free drink or two.

[The Kraken]

Or 70k for showing up on match day every couple of weeks and having a free drink or two.

 

Out of interest, did you ever go to an Ambassador's corporate day?

[Tokyo-Saint]

They didn't pay me enough.

[The Kraken]

They didn't pay me enough.

 

I see. Good to see you're comfortable in passing judgement on its quality and what it entails, though.

[JackFrost]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21353952

 

I have nothing but respect and admiration for what MLT did on the football pitch for us but when you look at his various tweets and the 'club' statement on the above page it's very clear that only one of the individuals in this "feud" has brains.

 

There are two key things that MLT doesn't appear to understand,

 

1) The success that Cortese has achieved at this club will ultimately win over the support of the vast majority of fans, and this will be exacerbated by MLT's support of the Fialka Fiasco. Money and success talk far louder than the opinions of an ex-player, even someone with the legendary status of MLT.

 

2) In any situation in life, If Person A has constant digs (deserved or not) at Person B over a long period of time they ultimately don't make Person B look like a ****, they make Person A look like a ****. Unfortunately for MLT, Cortese is well aware of this, hence the repeated silence whenever MLT has a dig.

 

The best thing MLT can do is just shut up, and if he has any serious disagreements regarding serious issues with how the club is run then he needs to put his views forward in a measured and professional manner. We all know he doesn't like Cortese, him constantly harping on about it unfortunately says more about him and less about Cortese.

 

Cortese has done some negative things whilst here, his treatment of Adkins is the biggest gripe with me and probably plenty of other people. But ultimately the club has achieved phenomenal success under him and the club has gone up two divisions. Not even his biggest critics can deny that.

[Tokyo-Saint]

My point was you can spin it however you like. You were passing judgement like he was making the money himself. If it wasn't LM there it could easily have been someone else. People would have still gone and it would still have made money. The spin was my point krakers. Did he add 70ks worth of value?

[shirleysfc]

I see. Good to see you're comfortable in passing judgement on its quality and what it entails, though.

 

Was it worth him earning a min of £3k a match? (assuming he got his £70k just for hosting on match days)

[mikee]

If the echo article is accurate then it is probably a good thing that the meeting has been cancelled as it seemed that Matty was more interested in getting Cortese to explain his "disgusting" behaviour rather than clearing the air for the good of the club - and that was never going to end well.

 

Matty will always be a god to me as a footballer but in his personal and business dealings he has shown himself to be both naive and a poor judge of character - which is why this spat started in the first place!

[The Kraken]

My point was you can spin it however you like. You were passing judgement like he was making the money himself. If it wasn't LM there it could easily have been someone else. People would have still gone and it would still have made money. The spin was my point krakers. Did he add 70ks worth of value?

 

It wasn't someone else though. It was LM. And at £70K per annum he was paid a relative meagre sum, I'd say, for at least 23 home games of corporate schmoozing. You wouldn't get an independent "celeb" of such stature to do the gig for £3K an appearance, let alone the most successful manager ever of our club.

 

And I thought I made that point about worth, but I'll do it again. Ambassador's Club was the most prestigeous, and most expensive corporate experience at the time. It was actually Lowe that axed Lawrie from it (one year before takeover) and numbers dwindled to such a huge extent that it was canned and never made a reappearance. So did he add £70K of value? Put it this way, it was hundreds of thousands of profit that disappeared after he lost the gig, so I'm sure you can make your own extrapolation. My POV would be that he paid his way, and then some.

[Sour Mash]

My point was you can spin it however you like. You were passing judgement like he was making the money himself. If it wasn't LM there it could easily have been someone else. People would have still gone and it would still have made money. The spin was my point krakers. Did he add 70ks worth of value?

Hard to judge 'adding value' on something like that. Think most clubs have a similar corporate set-up with old pros doing the hosting, I'd imagine they all get a decent few quid for it.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Was it worth him earning a min of £3k a match? (assuming he got his £70k just for hosting on match days)

 

He does have some good stories. Did you hear him on talksport last week? Fascinating stuff. It's not just 3k as he will probably bring a guest or 2, all on food, drink, best seats in the house etc. the question you have to ask is if he added extra value to what was already being offered. Did 3k+ extra money come just for him a match?

[shirleysfc]

It wasn't someone else though. It was LM. And at £70K per annum he was paid a relative meagre sum, I'd say, for at least 23 home games of corporate schmoozing. You wouldn't get an independent "celeb" of such stature to do the gig for £3K an appearance, let alone the most successful manager ever of our club.

 

And I thought I made that point about worth, but I'll do it again. Ambassador's Club was the most prestigeous, and most expensive corporate experience at the time. It was actually Lowe that axed Lawrie from it (one year before takeover) and numbers dwindled to such a huge extent that it was canned and never made a reappearance. So did he add £70K of value? Put it this way, it was hundreds of thousands of profit that disappeared after he lost the gig, so I'm sure you can make your own extrapolation. My POV would be that he paid his way, and then some.

 

What season did Lowe sack him?

[hypochondriac]

Bit laughable that this is your stance now when we've all seen your hissy fits over poor results in the last few seasons.

 

Where did I say that results don't matter? Results mean something to me. Some things matter to me more than just results.

[The Kraken]

What season did Lowe sack him?

 

He was sacked (along with Nigel Pearson) in the days following our survival against Sheffield United on the last day of the season.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Hard to judge 'adding value' on something like that. Think most clubs have a similar corporate set-up with old pros doing the hosting, I'd imagine they all get a decent few quid for it.

 

I am actually just arguing with crackers because of the spin bit. I actually think ambassadors are a good thing but not just for attracting rich ****heads into corporate. The role is much better served if it is in attracting and meeting new and potential players, much like Zidane at Madrid or Viera at Man City. It was the role Inthiught Del Piero was coming for. Would rather the first face a potential new signing saw was a legend of the game like him than Les Reed.

[The Kraken]

He does have some good stories. Did you hear him on talksport last week? Fascinating stuff. It's not just 3k as he will probably bring a guest or 2, all on food, drink, best seats in the house etc. the question you have to ask is if he added extra value to what was already being offered. Did 3k+ extra money come just for him a match?

 

Unfortunately you seem to go along with the Cortese approach of bean counting ever seat; and have lost the very nature of the corporate experience, which is for higher paying guests to feel schmoozed by club legends . That bean counting approach has seen the corporate experience downgraded to such an extent of late that we can't get a crowd above 32K even despite selling out the regular seats because the expensive seats remain empty, they aren't worth the cost any more and no-one wants to pay over the odds for cr*p food and little other tangible benefits.

[aintforever]

Was it worth him earning a min of £3k a match? (assuming he got his £70k just for hosting on match days)

 

Previous chairmen obviously thought so. Anyway even if it was too much that's the fault of whoever employed him, you can't blame him for getting paid for doing a job.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Unfortunately you seem to go along with the Cortese approach of bean counting ever seat; and have lost the very nature of the corporate experience, which is for higher paying guests to feel schmoozed by club legends . That bean counting approach has seen the corporate experience downgraded to such an extent of late that we can't get a crowd above 32K even despite selling out the regular seats because the expensive seats remain empty, they aren't worth the cost any more and no-one wants to pay over the odds for cr*p food and little other tangible benefits.

 

You can't blame me for the bad food! That's just going too far. What if we got a more recent star on a lower salary, maybe a coupe of recently retired pros, some decent food, good service and free booze, would that not be better?

[Frank's cousin]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this case I can assure you MLT is not doing this for "the benefit of Sky". There are a helluva load of wild assumptions being made on this thread and that is one of the wildest.

 

Duncan - problem is there are several seperate issues here. Lets take the obvious fact that MLT has a personal issue with Cortese of some kind - should MLT use his public position in the way he does to get him and his sky cronies gigling like school girls on national television about it? Some of us do not believe that is the right place to air his grivences - most would quite rightly argue that issues of a personal nature need to be dealt with in private... however decent a bloke he his and whatever he has given to the club (he was well paid for it) he is still acting a bit of a spoilt child by making this public.

 

Secondly, MLT clearly has issues with the way the club is being run. Now he is as entitled to his opinion on that as everyone else - but again his opinion is now simply like that on any other fan - you look at the information, you weigh up how much credibility the source has and you make up your mind - Now given his Sky role, part of his job is to comment as he sees it which is fair enough - BUT all we get is innuendo and harsh critique with little substance - Would you say that those ex pros on Socer Saturady were chosen for their ability to read the nuences and strategies of the game, or for their business accumen? No they are 'personalities' within the game and provide entertainment of various quality, but expert commentators on how 60mil + businesses needs to be run within the modern game is not their forte, so to make sweeping statements as they do about the way the club is run, when they know little detail as they are NOT on the inside and lack the knowledge, means its just speculation...and opinion, yet its treated as fact by many...

 

We hear plenty of 'stories' about what NC is doing, but nothing concrete - I am sure some are true and dont make pleaseent listening, but I suspect there is a huge amount of chinese whisper escalation that is encouraged by those with a fundemental disagreement with NC over the very principles of ownership vs the cliched 'emotional ownership' that some fans seem to expect as a birthright.

 

For most, the job of a chairman is to provide the infrastructure, resources and strategic direction for the club to progress. Within that are the human resources and assigned roles and functions that are designed to achieve that aim.... that is where there will be as many opinions about how that should operate as there are fans - how much a chairman involves himself in playing matters for example - IMHO its matters not who is involved, but whatever the situation, the only way to judge it is if it works, and the resultant performance.... How dictatorial or democratic, How kind and gentle v how miserable and mean - and although its obvious to all that we would like our chairman to exhibit the very best qualities, ultimately it matters not - It only becomes an issue if it undermines the aims and progress of the club.

 

I am sure Matty, Lawrie, Franny all have the clubs interests at heart - but its their opinion on how to achieve the best for the club that differs fundementally from NC and just because its MLT, Lawrie and Franny does not make their idea of what is best any more valid that yours or my opinion - sorry it does not - and there are plenty who are happy to listen to these guys, respect their opinion and their right to hold it, who simply disagree with them.... and as the plenty dont have such a public voice as Matty and Lawrie its natural that is perhaps a little resentment towards them because they are seen as being on the outside pis sing in.

 

The internet rumour mill, the 24/7 'news' coverage means and the media twisting and turning speculation from 'sources close to' is 99% drivel with no substance - even MLTs 'he is not very nice' soundbite is frankly a little embarrassing as it tells us nothing and its his opinion - Therefore its also only natural to question MLTs motivation behind it - the regular giggle fest with Stelling and Co... sorry that does nothing for his credibilty whether he is justified or not.

[The Kraken]

You can't blame me for the bad food! That's just going too far. What if we got a more recent star on a lower salary, maybe a coupe of recently retired pros, some decent food, good service and free booze, would that not be better?

 

Anything would be better than the current corporate setup, to be fair. Its bland, overpriced, unpopular and actually seemingly getting worse. There's nothing about it that works anywhere near as well as it used to, hence the high number of empty seats every game.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Do you run a successful corporate hospitality business?

[Dig Dig]

Anything would be better than the current corporate setup, to be fair. Its bland, overpriced, unpopular and actually seemingly getting worse. There's nothing about it that works anywhere near as well as it used to, hence the high number of empty seats every game.

 

It's very poor to be fair. My last experience was **** food on tiny plates, poor atmosphere and a stomach ache.

[Frank's cousin]

It's very poor to be fair. My last experience was **** food on tiny plates, poor atmosphere and a stomach ache.

 

 

If its not a sgood as it was - does that mean everyone would welcome Lowe back and his Catering experience? - Cant believe we have come full circle on this one - shows how fickle we are , shameless about turns like tabloid newspapers - 'Lets all laugh at and hate Lowe for hospitality focus, lets all laugh at and hate Cortese for his lack of it''

[aintforever]

Duncan - problem is there are several seperate issues here. Lets take the obvious fact that MLT has a personal issue with Cortese of some kind - should MLT use his public position in the way he does to get him and his sky cronies gigling like school girls on national television about it? Some of us do not believe that is the right place to air his grivences - most would quite rightly argue that issues of a personal nature need to be dealt with in private... however decent a bloke he his and whatever he has given to the club (he was well paid for it) he is still acting a bit of a spoilt child by making this public.

 

Secondly, MLT clearly has issues with the way the club is being run. Now he is as entitled to his opinion on that as everyone else - but again his opinion is now simply like that on any other fan - you look at the information, you weigh up how much credibility the source has and you make up your mind - Now given his Sky role, part of his job is to comment as he sees it which is fair enough - BUT all we get is innuendo and harsh critique with little substance - Would you say that those ex pros on Socer Saturady were chosen for their ability to read the nuences and strategies of the game, or for their business accumen? No they are 'personalities' within the game and provide entertainment of various quality, but expert commentators on how 60mil + businesses needs to be run within the modern game is not their forte, so to make sweeping statements as they do about the way the club is run, when they know little detail as they are NOT on the inside and lack the knowledge, means its just speculation...and opinion, yet its treated as fact by many...

 

We hear plenty of 'stories' about what NC is doing, but nothing concrete - I am sure some are true and dont make pleaseent listening, but I suspect there is a huge amount of chinese whisper escalation that is encouraged by those with a fundemental disagreement with NC over the very principles of ownership vs the cliched 'emotional ownership' that some fans seem to expect as a birthright.

 

For most, the job of a chairman is to provide the infrastructure, resources and strategic direction for the club to progress. Within that are the human resources and assigned roles and functions that are designed to achieve that aim.... that is where there will be as many opinions about how that should operate as there are fans - how much a chairman involves himself in playing matters for example - IMHO its matters not who is involved, but whatever the situation, the only way to judge it is if it works, and the resultant performance.... How dictatorial or democratic, How kind and gentle v how miserable and mean - and although its obvious to all that we would like our chairman to exhibit the very best qualities, ultimately it matters not - It only becomes an issue if it undermines the aims and progress of the club.

 

I am sure Matty, Lawrie, Franny all have the clubs interests at heart - but its their opinion on how to achieve the best for the club that differs fundementally from NC and just because its MLT, Lawrie and Franny does not make their idea of what is best any more valid that yours or my opinion - sorry it does not - and there are plenty who are happy to listen to these guys, respect their opinion and their right to hold it, who simply disagree with them.... and as the plenty dont have such a public voice as Matty and Lawrie its natural that is perhaps a little resentment towards them because they are seen as being on the outside pis sing in.

 

The internet rumour mill, the 24/7 'news' coverage means and the media twisting and turning speculation from 'sources close to' is 99% drivel with no substance - even MLTs 'he is not very nice' soundbite is frankly a little embarrassing as it tells us nothing and its his opinion - Therefore its also only natural to question MLTs motivation behind it - the regular giggle fest with Stelling and Co... sorry that does nothing for his credibilty whether he is justified or not.

 

Think you're over complicating it somewhat.

 

Cortese hates Le Tiss because he was involved in a rival takeover bid so treats him with contempt. Le Tiss gets fed up and says some stuff. That's it.

[The Kraken]

Do you run a successful corporate hospitality business?

 

Nah, I'm just a former corporate customer who has been seen off by the overpriced tat on offer these days who longs for the quality of the "old" days, which while being relatively expensive actually offered some value for money.

[The Kraken]

If its not a sgood as it was - does that mean everyone would welcome Lowe back and his Catering experience? - Cant believe we have come full circle on this one - shows how fickle we are ' date=' shameless about turns like tabloid newspapers - 'Lets all laugh at and hate Lowe for hospitality focus, lets all laugh at and hate Cortese for his lack of it'' [/quote']

 

Yes frank, it really is as black and white and simplistic as that.

 

F*cking hell

[Frank's cousin]

Yes frank, it really is as black and white and simplistic as that.

 

F*cking hell

 

Whooosh!

[The Kraken]

Whooosh!

I just can't keep up with your wondrous hilarity these days, Frank.

[Frank's cousin]

I just can't keep up with your wondrous hilarity these days, Frank.

 

No need to.

[Frank's cousin]

Think you're over complicating it somewhat.

 

Cortese hates Le Tiss because he was involved in a rival takeover bid so treats him with contempt. Le Tiss gets fed up and says some stuff. That's it.

 

Something more than just being a rival bidder must have happened between NC and MLT to set this off - sory, I dont buy the 'delay' thing and all that - as to complicating it, not sure it is complicated, but FF was kind of insinuating there was more to it. I like Duncan, good passionate fan, decent bloke, but he is not adverse to a tease now and then.

[Roger]

st marco can you help me out please , who are all those people at the top of this page wearing saints shirts ? are they all just other guys ?

 

St marco stfu. Le tiss was the greatest player by miles, even channon said so.

[Frank's cousin]

I just can't keep up with your wondrous hilarity these days, Frank.

 

Ok Kracken, what am I to believe? I am described as over complicating things, by one poster and over simplifying by the next... Guess I just cant please anyone these days...darn. Must ry harder to be more popular and just go along with forum elite POV I guess...

[Tokyo-Saint]

Nah, I'm just a former corporate customer who has been seen off by the overpriced tat on offer these days who longs for the quality of the "old" days, which while being relatively expensive actually offered some value for money.

 

Double woosh!

 

Well I do (well not just corporate but close enough). Customers always want more for their money, think things were better before, suppliers (LM is in here) always want over paid for what they do. NC's job is to find the right balance. It sounds like he is not doing well (from what you say, I have no idea how the finances compare) but he is a good businessman by all accounts and I expect he will get someone in who can make more money for the club. If LM was on 70k it sounds like the spending under lowe was a bit high, therefore I doubt it was making as much money as it probably should. Get the right person in there and they will find the right balance.

 

As a customer, you will still moan as it was of course better when loads of cash was being splashed but if the balance is right, you will keep coming back. Its not a difficult thing to run as most of the entertainment is sorted, get the food and the drink right and you are most of the way there. The other stuff is just little touches they can work on And improve over time.

[pap]

Sorry, but completely agree with the club pulling out of the talks with MLT.

 

Put it this way, if Sky TV had said to Matty "Hey Matt, we'd like a private chat in a few weeks time", do you think he'd have gone onto Twitter/journos banging on about it? Would he f**k. He'd have kept his mouth shut, because he knows what's good for him.

 

So yeah, huge olive branch from the club following the repeated accusations from MLT. You'd have thought he could have kept it buttoned up pending the outcome of the talks, but no, let's spend the weeks before the meeting saying stuff that'll probably derail a positive outcome.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of the Benali story. I can't quite believe that it's all over bathroom flooring, but that's an excellent story if true.

 

Not really about choosing a favourite here. It's about asking the question who has appeared more reasonable. NC has the high ground at sea level. MLT just digging himself deeper.

[The Kraken]

Double woosh!

 

Well I do (well not just corporate but close enough). Customers always want more for their money, think things were better than before, suppliers (LM is in here) always want over paid for what they do. NC's job is to find the right balance. It sounds like he is not doing well (from what you say, I have no idea how the finances compare) but he is a good businessman by all accounts and I expect he will get someone in who can make more money for the club. If LM was on 70k it sounds like the spending under lowe was a bit high, therefore I doubt it was making as much money as it probably should. Get the right person in there and they will find the right balance.

 

As a customer, you will still moan as it was of course better when loads of cash was being splashed but if the balance is right, you will keep coming back. Its not a difficult thing to run as most of the entertainment is sorted, get the food and the drink right and you are most of the way there. The other stuff is just little touches they can work on And improve over time.

Corporate stuff is little stuff, I agree. Just a shame that a product that was so easy to get right is being done so badly. It used to be good; and it used to be a really good treat once or twice a year. Sadly no more, its just too bland an experience.

 

As for the Lawrie being too highly paid, I admit I do find it difficult to hear what I think is unjustified criticism of overspending on him when at the time we paying the likes of Stern John and Inigo Idiakez nearly ten times as much to do f*ck all on the pitch. £70K is probably less than SFC pay on stationery these days (not to mention what the current CEO trousers out of the club in earnings and benefits and whether he actually provdes value for money, considering the club has made enormous losses and continues to do so under his stewardship). But then that's another issue entirely.

[Tokyo-Saint]

 

I don't know the ins and outs of the Benali story. I can't quite believe that it's all over bathroom flooring, but that's an excellent story

 

Thanks Pap,

 

Sorry mate its not true, I just made it up for Lols.

[aintforever]

Something more than just being a rival bidder must have happened between NC and MLT to set this off - sory' date=' I dont buy the 'delay' thing and all that - as to complicating it, not sure it is complicated, but FF was kind of insinuating there was more to it. I like Duncan, good passionate fan, decent bloke, but he is not adverse to a tease now and then.[/quote']

 

I heard Cortese had it in for Le Tiss long before anything was said in the media so unless Matty boned his wife it has to be down to the Pinnacle thing.

[The Kraken]

I heard Cortese had it in for Le Tiss long before anything was said in the media so unless Matty boned his wife it has to be down to the Pinnacle thing.

 

MLT and LMc were regularly in the Echo closely following takeover, rarely with much good to say. I think its fair to assume that neither party has much respect for each other.

[Wade Garrett]

Sorry Matt, you've made a right c*nt out of yourself.

[qwertySFC]

Can't wait for NC to say sod it - I am not good enough in their eyes and recommend Leibheer's sale up and get out - Lets hope we get one of those people like Notts Forest have or Coventry or our Plucky friends down the road ,or decent people with cash like Blackburn - yeah that will show em won't it Matt - bring in the mummy's boy and his few quid - Get old lawrie in for a few more beers and chat about the old days - have a half time giggle with some local comic - I just can't wait ....