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Cortese and Le Tissier arrange meeting

Saint-Armstrong

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CanadaSaint

CanadaSaint

Posted
Posted
Plus I found the bit about asking whether Benali has the Clubs interests at heart if he is suing the club a bit weird.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I also find it a bit weird that people keep trumpeting Benali's love for the club when part of the legal issue appears to be the fact that he was getting paid to show it.

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CanadaSaint

CanadaSaint

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I started supporting saints as a season ticket holder in 86 so fair point. I was very young lol. I sit with 8 of my family every match and they have seen all the best players and they think le Tiss is best. Two votes in last 20 years back up my point as le tiss has been voted our greatest player by the fans. I understand it was in his era though.

I think looking back, le Tiss contribution was the greatest in our history in terms of producing in important games. I would say channon isn't far behind then Paine. However, it must be said that channon and Payne played a lot of their career not at the top flight especially Paine. It's an argument with lots of opinions but i think most would agree with me. That includes a lot of the fans who have seen them all. Ted bates told me in 2000 that he hadn't seen a better saints player than le tissier. That's a pretty good reference.

 

Roger, that's fine. I respect your opinion and, from some angles, I agree with it. But he wouldn't be my first choice because, for all his brilliance - genius, even - I prefer players who gave near-90 minutes of high quality effort, game-in/game-out, over a large number of games. But that's just my opinion. And there will always be plenty of different opinions in football.

 

The sad thing is that this MLT debate has mixed the totally different issues of his playing contribution and his recent conduct. I won't let the second screw-up the first, or allow the first to excuse the second.

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Roger

Roger

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Roger, that's fine. I respect your opinion and, from some angles, I agree with it. But he wouldn't be my first choice because, for all his brilliance - genius, even - I prefer players who gave near-90 minutes of high quality effort, game-in/game-out, over a large number of games. But that's just my opinion. And there will always be plenty of different opinions in football.

 

The sad thing is that this MLT debate has mixed the totally different issues of his playing contribution and his recent conduct. I won't let the second screw-up the first, or allow the first to excuse the second.

 

 

Respect you're view Aswell as you have obviously seen them all, however, I think that Matty did the important things well. Scoring a goal and setting it up and he had end product. In this country we worry too much about work rate and not enough about skill IMO. That's the reason we don't win things. But seasons in which he scored 24,21,25, 30, 16, 20 goals shows he was consistent. He also made as many as he scored and was regularly top if opta index during periods when cantona in the same position was at his peak.

But what caps it off was his loyalty coupled with the fact that there's hardly anyone that can match the quality of his top 50 goals and timings of them which was so vital to keep us up, many times scoring in last minute if crucial games. In 93-95 kept us up on his own pretty much. Especially the hand at west ham

Last game when he was amazing. However, cortese I'm behind you for now.

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Roger

Roger

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Posted (edited)

Also Paine only scored tops 11 league goals in the top flight with saints. I don't think he is in the same level as le tiss or channon but I'd just give Matty the edge over channon. Actually channons acting record in the top flight wasn't great either for saints or man city where he managed 12 in two seasons.

Edited by Roger
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tpbury

tpbury

Posted
Posted
The thing about time is people forget.

 

For example my 12 year old nephew is a die hard Saints fan and goes with his dad to the games with us at home.

You ask him who scored our fa cup goal and he won't have a clue. Ask him who is our all time greatest scorer and he won't have a clue.

Each of these people had huge importance on our history but as each new generation comes around they are pushed further and further away.

To our generation Matty is a god on the pitch. But to the generation below who never saw him play he is just another guy.

When I was a young kid everyone talked about how amazing Channon was. My dad will tell you he was better then MLT or at least more important.

Now it is Rickie Lambert.

Time moves on and legends of one era are forgotten by the next.

 

My 11 year old boy knows all about MLT and seen everything on YouTube related to him. I am not sure if he thinks he is a current player! It is easier to say MLT is our greatest player and then prove it on YouTube - not too much footage of Channon.

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farawaysaint

farawaysaint

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Posted
Also Paine only scored tops 11 league goals in the top flight with saints. I don't think he is in the same level as le tiss or channon but I'd just give Matty the edge over channon. Actually channons acting record in the top flight wasn't great either for saints or man city where he managed 12 in two seasons.

 

 

Paine, has to be up there but it's a different position after all. Are you sure it was only 11? Wiki (not the most reliable source), has 45?

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Saint Charlie

Saint Charlie

Posted
Posted

FAO Matthew Le Tissier (the poster) what exactly will 'come out' in the court case? Anything that will detract from Cortese's ability to do the job he is currently doing well??

 

Or some kind of personal situation with Benali which is basically their own business?

 

I am a fan of the club and Cortese is leading it well. Im not bothered about a rent dispute between two people I dont personally 'know'.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

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My 11 year old boy knows all about MLT and seen everything on YouTube related to him. I am not sure if he thinks he is a current player! It is easier to say MLT is our greatest player and then prove it on YouTube - not too much footage of Channon.

 

Well, that's easy to explain. Channon was watched by older supporters and they are less savvy about how to put up stuff on You Tube than the younger fans who watched Le Tiss. Plus it would be less of a priority in their lives and they would be still have their memories of him and be content with those, without having to look at videos of him playing to remind themselves.

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Roger

Roger

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Well, that's easy to explain. Channon was watched by older supporters and they are less savvy about how to put up stuff on You Tube than the younger fans who watched Le Tiss. Plus it would be less of a priority in their lives and they would be still have their memories of him and be content with those, without having to look at videos of him playing to remind themselves.

 

I haven't watched a video of le tiss for ages but can't blame people for watching, he scored So many good goals.

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

Posted
Posted
My 11 year old boy knows all about MLT and seen everything on YouTube related to him. I am not sure if he thinks he is a current player! It is easier to say MLT is our greatest player and then prove it on YouTube - not too much footage of Channon.
Fair bit of Channon footage out there worth hunting down, old videos etc.
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Roger

Roger

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There will be kids who will say lambert is our greatest ever soon... I'm sure

 

As much as I like rickie, I don't think so. Again most if his goals for us were not in the tip flight and has only been 3.5 years compared to others who have done it for over ten years.

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Thedelldays

Thedelldays

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As much as I like rickie, I don't think so. Again most if his goals for us were not in the tip flight and has only been 3.5 years compared to others who have done it for over ten years.

 

That is your opinion and i would agree. But I said, I'm sure some kids will say so.

 

And who the hell would you be to tell them otherwise.

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Thedelldays

Thedelldays

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Well you would only have to look on youtube or unbelievable to see evidence that that is not the case.

 

I know that.

 

What part of I'm sure kids will say so do you not get.

 

There are people older who don't think Matt is the greatest. So why can't 10 year olds think that??

 

I think Matt is the best ever. But I can't help it if others dont. And some clearly don't think that. Which looks good on saints that we actually have had a few very good players play for us over the years

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
I know that.

 

What part of I'm sure kids will say so do you not get.

 

There are people older who don't think Matt is the greatest. So why can't 10 year olds think that??

 

I think Matt is the best ever. But I can't help it if others dont. And some clearly don't think that. Which looks good on saints that we actually have had a few very good players play for us over the years

 

Still not sure why some fictitious kids in your own mind would claim Rickie is the greatest ever when as I said the evidence to the contrary as well as the stats and anecdotal evidence would counter that opinion quite strongly. Someone could say that but then some kid could say any number of ridiculous claims. It doesn't make them true.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
I know that.

 

What part of I'm sure kids will say so do you not get.

 

There are people older who don't think Matt is the greatest. So why can't 10 year olds think that??

 

I think Matt is the best ever. But I can't help it if others dont. And some clearly don't think that. Which looks good on saints that we actually have had a few very good players play for us over the years

 

When I was 10 I thought Colin Clarke was the best player in the world. He wasn't.

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Roger

Roger

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When I was 10 I thought Colin Clarke was the best player in the world. He wasn't.

 

Lol so did I. Was so annoyed he was dropped for le tiss I phoned up club and told them to put him back in the team when he was dropped for a young 17 year old called le tissier lol.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Well. Either way. There are people who don't think Matt is the greatest ever. So the chances that new fans will also think that is a good one.

 

That is a fact

 

Sorry if you can't deal with that

 

If any kid believes that Rickie is the greatest saints player ever and then maintains that belief into adulthood then I don't care about their opinion.

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Turkish

Turkish

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Posted
Well. Either way. There are people who don't think Matt is the greatest ever. So the chances that new fans will also think that is a good one.

 

That is a fact

 

Sorry if you can't deal with that

 

Apart from a few clowns on here there is no doubt he is in our top 3 minimum. 162 league goals, all of them in top flight in a team which struggled most seasons. which is not the case for his rivals for greatest ever player.

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Thedelldays

Thedelldays

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Posted
If any kid believes that Rickie is the greatest saints player ever and then maintains that belief into adulthood then I don't care about their opinion.

 

Well, it will be their opinion

 

Much like those who say channon or Paine or Davies are the greatest.

 

Which can only be a good thing. Does not quite make us totally small time and show we have had some very good players who have made amazing contributions.

 

The generations seem to play a big part.

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Roger

Roger

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Well, it will be their opinion

 

Much like those who say channon or Paine or Davies are the greatest.

 

Which can only be a good thing. Does not quite make us totally small time and show we have had some very good players who have made amazing contributions.

 

The generations seem to play a big part.

 

They do mate but also a lot of the older generation still say le tiss is best, even ted bates and lawrie have. Matty has won every poll in last 20 years by a landslide, I know it's a generation thing but Liverpool fans still vote kenny infront of gerrard.

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WealdSaint

WealdSaint

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Posted

I've seen plenty of generations of Saints players from Mike Channon thro' to Luke Shaw.

 

Very sad to see all the bad blood between the club and some ex players.

 

On the Lambert vs LeTiss all I will say is I would loved to have seem them on the same pitch......mind you might have been a bit short on pace up front!

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Legod Third Coming

Legod Third Coming

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I think it's a great shame that Matt and the Chairman aren't now going to talk.

It should have been handled discreetly and behind closed doors. Matt doesn't come out of this with any credit, which is a greater shame.

I also hope that it is not the end of the matter. They both want exactly the same thing - our club to be the most successful it can.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Posted

I think the issue was probably quite a simple one to start with - You have to remember (and I dont mean this as a negative) before NC and Marcus Came on the scene, they will probably not have had much knowledge and zero connection with the club. All they will have done is look at the books in detail during due diligence to understand everything that took the club to its knees - from the difficulty in remaining competitive without raking up debts under Lowe, to the succession of good intentioned but naive spending during Wilde, Crouch, and tangoman, to the too little too late attempts by Wilde and Lowe to save us from the inevitable. Although we can argue till the proverbial cows come home about the cost of ambassadorial roles to who 'deserves' certain privilages due to past contributions, they did quite clearly make a statement that all such stuff would stuss would stop and everyone would be expected to pay their way.

 

Now whether that is a contributing factor to the 'fallings' out or not I dont know, but ultimately they did make it clear, so going on about it in the media is hardly going to ensure a happy relationship. Stelling proclaiming Matt should have free tickets for life when Matt revealed the issue of the cup tickets etc was certainly not going to help and shows how easy it is for these stories to take on a life of their own, especially when they only ever reveal one side ... If you ask anyone if ex players deserve special privilages, most will say it depends on their contribution - and Undoubtedly Matts was up the top 5 in the clubs history - and debating the exact order of that top 5 across the generations runs in the veins of any fan, but given the recent history, the statement that all would be expected to contribute going forward, surely most would accept that and hope the club would progress and regains some of its stature.?

 

I remain unconvinced that NC fell out with Matt over Pinnacle - that was business and although Pinnacle delayed NC/Liebherr, Matss involvement was a figurehead when asked to do something for the club... he was perhaps naive in not checking who he was standing for, but well intentioned none the less.

 

I do think there is an elelment to all this about club ownership - some fans take the emotional owership aspect way too seriously and believe they should be more embedded in the way their club is run and by whom... and foreign business men are welcomed for their cash, but expected to fall in line with the 'traditions' and expectations for the fans, its past and its 'culture' - sorry but those things are the past - history for sure and one that gives the club its identity today... BUT with new people as with new managers and players and each generation of new fans, it shoudl always be about the future, a new chapter and creating tomorrows culture - with the desire and aspiration to to be better than just relying on past 'glories' .... 4 FA cup finals, 1 win and a 2nd placed finish.... is not the stuff of legend.

 

Looking forward rather than backwards does not mean forgetting the past, and the choice of president, the invite to the 76 winning side etc shows that its not a closed door, but the club can not be a slave to it either... You have to look forward. I wonder how much of it is down to the fact that many ex players/pro simply cant let go of the game when they finish and look to hang on to the club as more than just a fan?

 

As important the history is, I want to see the club make NEW history, progress to new heights so that we dont have to keep looking abck at a single cup win, a few good seaosns in the 80s and a pile of genius goals from Matt - I want to see the new Matts come through teh academy, see us compete at a higher level and not just accept our place in the all time rankings. To much focus on the past whether glorious or unspectatualar, can be a burden and from NCs perspective, the recent past was far from glorious, its no wonder he does not spend too much time thinking about it.

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Webby

Webby

Posted
Posted
....

 

As important the history is, I want to see the club make NEW history, progress to new heights so that we dont have to keep looking abck at a single cup win, a few good seaosns in the 80s and a pile of genius goals from Matt - I want to see the new Matts come through teh academy, see us compete at a higher level and not just accept our place in the all time rankings. To much focus on the past whether glorious or unspectatualar, can be a burden and from NCs perspective, the recent past was far from glorious, its no wonder he does not spend too much time thinking about it.

 

Too right. Even SAF and man utd win another title, it's a case of 'right, that was yesterday, onto the next one'. Never standing still.

 

And yes, I'd love to see another MLT come through. He may be our greatest player ever, but that does not mean he cannot be usurped.

 

Your history, good or bad, should not define your future. It's about striving to be the best you can every day, and in doing that you will hopefully leave an even better history behind.

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ecuk268

ecuk268

Posted
Posted
He's not though.

 

It's really an age thing isn't it.

 

I saw my first game at The Dell when Derek Reeves was our centre-forward. Still holds the record for number of League goals in one season (39). I grew up watching Paine, Chivers, Davies etc and I think that the players that you admire when you're growing up remain your heroes in later life.

 

Matt Le Tiss is certainly up there among that lot but it's all very subjective. How do you judge the greatest player? Goals scored? Overall contribution to the team?

 

Paine wasn't a prolific scorer but I remember Ron Davies saying that Paine could not only cross the ball right onto his forehead but he even made sure that the laces were facing away from him. Anyone who ever headed one of the old leather footballs (especially if it had absorbed a few pints of rainwater) will appreciate that.

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ottery st mary

ottery st mary

Posted
Posted
It's really an age thing isn't it.

 

I saw my first game at The Dell when Derek Reeves was our centre-forward. Still holds the record for number of League goals in one season (39). I grew up watching Paine, Chivers, Davies etc and I think that the players that you admire when you're growing up remain your heroes in later life.

 

Matt Le Tiss is certainly up there among that lot but it's all very subjective. How do you judge the greatest player? Goals scored? Overall contribution to the team?

 

Paine wasn't a prolific scorer but I remember Ron Davies saying that Paine could not only cross the ball right onto his forehead but he even made sure that the laces were facing away from him. Anyone who ever headed one of the old leather footballs (especially if it had absorbed a few pints of rainwater) will appreciate that.

 

 

100%....................Not forgetting hot shot George O'Brien alongside......................Derek Reeves , who had been picked up from the Bournemouth Gasworks team..

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted
Also Paine only scored tops 11 league goals in the top flight with saints. I don't think he is in the same level as le tiss or Channon but I'd just give Matty the edge over Channon. Actually Channons acting record in the top flight wasn't great either for saints or man city where he managed 12 in two seasons.

 

 

Terry Paine scored 11 goals ....in his first season in the (then. Div1).

 

He actually completed 8 seasons in the top flight ...around 320 games and scored a total of 38 goals.....PLUS about 100 assists to Ron Davies (I should think) ...though it might have been more.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted (edited)

This greatest ever / favourite thing gets out of hand -doesn't it?

 

My (late ) father used to rave about Bill Rawlings, Ted Drake and Charlie Wayman, but they all played in different decades. It 's impossible to compare players, because of the change of personnel...where the team was playing ....and that individuals contribution to the team (of their day)..or .....if you are only looking at stats.

 

In that respect...MLT scored 105 league goals in 6 seasons between 1989-1995. His goals kept us up in those years..

and the same can be said of Ron Davies scored 134 between 1966-1973

......whilst George O'Brien scored 154 League goals from 1959 - 1965.

George scored most of his goals whilst we were a top end side in Div 2 (without ever getting promoted and he left the club before we actually achieved it). .

 

All these players were heroes of their day for obvious reasons, and I haven't ignored Mick Channon but his annual goal tally rarely reached past 20, but were amassed over a period of 15 seasons or so.

 

I never like to compare these " greats ", but am glad I had the chance to see them all play.

 

 

BUT what's all this doing in a thread about Cortese and Le Tissier?

Edited by david in sweden
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Bearsy

Bearsy

Posted
Posted
BUT what's all this doing in a thread about Cortese and Le Tissier?

 

This is true u should do threads bout ur favourite players from black and white days so we can learn bout them. Like that player you said Dennis Hollywood i just ask my dad bout him and he said he was famous for doing long glory boy passes up to the forwards. I never knew bout that!

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um pahars

um pahars

Posted
Posted
I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I also find it a bit weird that people keep trumpeting Benali's love for the club when part of the legal issue appears to be the fact that he was getting paid to show it.

 

Up and down the country ex pros do a stint in the corporate suites and every one of the gets paid. When I went to Highbury before the FA Cup final we even had Gooner mad Stupot!!!! from Grange Hill give a few words with our lower echelon clock end corporates!!!

 

It's standard and accepted business practice. I know a lot of ex pros also give their time for charity events, but schmoozing and corporate work for their related clubs is not done for free.

 

Is the next logical step is to ask Dodd to forego his wage??

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