Is Cortese's top four ambition obtainable?

[CanadaSaint]

If you think we took a loan as we didnt want to touch the untold billions in the bank...go for it.

 

It's not out of the question that there is a ton of money set aside, but that it has timing constraints attached to it.

 

I think I'd trust Cortese to handle that side of things a lot better than the financial numb-nuts on this forum, and I include myself in that category.

[Barry Sanchez]

Im descending order it is actually

 

Man Utd

Arsenal

Newcastle

Man City

Liverpool

Chelsea are 6th with 41k

 

We are 12th

 

 

Of all time.

[Thedelldays]

It's not out of the question that there is a ton of money set aside, but that it has timing constraints attached to it.

 

I think I'd trust Cortese to handle that side of things a lot better than the financial numb-nuts on this forum, and I include myself in that category.

I dont disagree...but the vast sums of money to quickly (in the next 3-5 years) to sustain a top 6 side is going to be vast......dread to think a top 4 push year after year

[Bucks Saint]

At the fans dinner last year Cortese was talking about us being in the top 4 most followed clubs in the world as one of his targets

 

In the Sky EXCLUSIVE! interview this week, NC said he wanted us to be challenging the top 6. FFS he has downgraded our ambitions. Now I know why he had to get rid of NA and bring in a new man who was better placed to take us to the (new) next level. Cortese out

[lifeintheslowlane]

Well here it is...the definitive answer!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOBODY KNOWS!

OK onto the easy stuff...What's the meaning of life?

[Wes Tender]

jesus christ........

 

we have never been a successful club at the top end of the game...there is no shame in that..I am happy to admit it...

 

we finished 2nd once...30 years ago, won an FA Cup even further than that and won the paint pot very recently....

 

that is not a list of honours that belong to a successful club...

we dont even have any victorian-era won trophies to cling on to...

 

I have no idea what so ever what the euro vision song contest has to do with absolutely anything with this....

 

if you think we are successful and are going to be challenging for the premier league title in the next 3-5 years...then, err, good luck with that

 

 

Jesus Christ yourself! Barry asserted that we have never been successful. That is incorrect, unless you consider that coming second to the all-conquering Liverpool of that period was a failure. If we came second this coming season and then declined the following few seasons, would you say that we had a successful season, or would you say it was only second and that it wasn't part of a run of successes? You yourself even mentioned our achievements in the FA Cup and JPT. In other words, we were successful in those competitions.

 

Please point out to me where I said that we would be challenging for the Premier League title in the next 3-5 years. I don't see me saying that at all. But then there are some on here who have extreme difficulties in comprehending simple English. All I have ever said is that although it is improbable, it is not impossible. Neither have I put a timescale on it either. That was you.

[Wes Tender]

A) Did I say that?

 

B) Did I say we had 'untold billions in the bank'?

 

If you want to debate, debate. But at present you are simply putting words in my mouth and arguing with yourself.

 

It may just as well be that release of funds was staggered over a period, with getting more at certain times according to the '5 year plan'.

 

Being ahead of this may have meant a temporary short-coming, or cash-flow problem.

 

There, I have come up with a solution based on no facts whatsoever, but I will purport this to be FACT just like you.

 

Discussion over.

 

He's also tried to put words into my mouth too. Great trolling or WUM from him. Either that, or he's not very good at comprehension. Which is it, DD?

[Thedelldays]

to be a top 4 club, year in, year out you are regarded as challenging for the title.....

[KelvinsRightGlove]

to be a top 4 club, year in, year out you are regarded as challenging for the title.....

 

Perhaps, though this season and last it's been very much a 2 horse race.

 

It's been a while since Arsenal have seriously challenged for the title (I say while, 4-6 years) yet they still finish top 4 year in, year out.

[Barry Sanchez]

Jesus Christ yourself! Barry asserted that we have never been successful. That is incorrect, unless you consider that coming second to the all-conquering Liverpool of that period was a failure. If we came second this coming season and then declined the following few seasons, would you say that we had a successful season, or would you say it was only second and that it wasn't part of a run of successes? You yourself even mentioned our achievements in the FA Cup and JPT. In other words, we were successful in those competitions.

 

Please point out to me where I said that we would be challenging for the Premier League title in the next 3-5 years. I don't see me saying that at all. But then there are some on here who have extreme difficulties in comprehending simple English. All I have ever said is that although it is improbable, it is not impossible. Neither have I put a timescale on it either. That was you.

 

If thats success (I disagree as you know) we are still very unsucccessful by standards of clubs smaller or similar size to us, there is no shame in that but I dont live with my head in the cluds either and know Cortese will have to spend 100's of Millions to compete.

 

The clubs with more trophies than us and are smaller or of a simlilar size (modern era or the era you quote I wont take the ****)

 

Ipswich Town

West Ham

Blackburn

Nottingham Forrest

Derby County

Thats off the top of my head.

[Thedelldays]

Perhaps, though this season and last it's been very much a 2 horse race.

 

It's been a while since Arsenal have seriously challenged for the title (I say while, 4-6 years) yet they still finish top 4 year in, year out.

they are no longer a shoe-in...which is what NC wants.......spurs where title challengers until redknapp got distracted by england last season....

 

anyway, this has been done to death...good luck to you on our champions league charge....

[Rut]

4) Keeping top-quality academy-produced talent is an equalizer and even a game-changer; it strengthens us in a cost-effective way but also denies the big clubs a source of talent.

 

If Saints can start off by doing this - ie not selling their best young players (ie Luke Shaw) to so-called bigger teams - then that will do me for now.

 

Anything after this then see what happens.

[The Kraken]

NC knows that when the Football Fair Play Rules kick in fully, we shall have a much better chance of competing with the current top four in the premiership.

 

Sorry, can you clarify this please? How is only being able to spend money that we actually earn (rather than being financially banrolled by a rich benefactor) going to make it easier rather than harder to compete with the top 4 (who earn vastly in excess of the sums we can expect to see in the short to medium term, with or without a larger stadium). Let alone competing with those outside the top 4 who turnover considerably more than us.

[Charlie Wayman]

So we all know that big Nicola wants us to be top four, and that's all well and good and I applaud him for that because there's nothing worse than owners and managers who don't reach for the stars... but is this really something that we can think about reaching, really?

 

What we've done, coming straight up to the elite from League One, is fantastic, but obviously the higher you get the more difficult it gets to reach the next stage, and the longer it will take with hard grafting to get there. We'll come 14th or 15th this season, 12th if we pull some amazing results off, and next season we can look to overtake the Stokes, Swanseas and West Broms of the league, but after that you're in Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs territory, the real big juggernauts.

 

Obviously I'd love if we pushed for a Champions League place on a regular basis, but really is this something we can realistically see happening? I just can't see any way we could breach the United-City-Chelsea-other wall...

 

I believe he said top 6 not top 4. Just checked the interview again

[KelvinsRightGlove]

they are no longer a shoe-in...which is what NC wants.......spurs where title challengers until redknapp got distracted by england last season....

 

anyway, this has been done to death...good luck to you on our champions league charge....

 

There you go again.

 

I must have said explicitly at least twice, if not more (and again now) that I think it is UNLIKELY but not unobtainable.

[Bucks Saint]

I believe he said top 6 not top 4. Just checked the interview again

 

Post #104

[Wes Tender]

If thats success (I disagree as you know) we are still very unsucccessful by standards of clubs smaller or similar size to us, there is no shame in that but I dont live with my head in the cluds either and know Cortese will have to spend 100's of Millions to compete.

 

The clubs with more trophies than us and are smaller or of a simlilar size (modern era or the era you quote I wont take the ****)

 

Ipswich Town

West Ham

Blackburn

Nottingham Forrest

Derby County

Thats off the top of my head.

 

Look. I'll make it simple for you. You said that we had never been successful. I said we had achieved the success of being runners up to Liverpool before now, coming second in the top flight.

 

Still with me?

 

The debate on this thread is about whether we could qualify for Europe by being one of the top four teams, is it not?

 

But you have said that you don't consider coming second in the top flight constitutes success.

 

Many others on here rule it out as ever being possible.

 

So having done it ourselves before (finishing in the top four), were we successful that year or not? And if we managed to come second now and qualified for the Champions League, would that be a success, or not? And if it would be classed as a success now, why don't you admit that it was a success then?

 

Understand?

 

I am not debating all that other stuff. Just your contention that we have never been successful. I really can't make it any plainer than that.

[CanadaSaint]

Sorry, can you clarify this please? How is only being able to spend money that we actually earn (rather than being financially banrolled by a rich benefactor) going to make it easier rather than harder to compete with the top 4 (who earn vastly in excess of the sums we can expect to see in the short to medium term, with or without a larger stadium). Let alone competing with those outside the top 4 who turnover considerably more than us.

 

TK, it's because at least two of the top four are spending sums vastly beyond those that they generate through their own size and status. In all likelihood they will always have an advantage but FFP will - potentially significantly - reduce the size of that advantage. That's how I see it, anyway. It's as much about them coming back to us rather than us tying to catch up with them.

[The Kraken]

TK, it's because at least two of the top four are spending sums vastly beyond those that they generate through their own size and status. In all likelihood they will always have an advantage but FFP will - potentially significantly - reduce the size of that advantage. That's how I see it, anyway. It's as much about them coming back to us rather than us tying to catch up with them.

 

They're spending more than they earn yes; but even if they only spend what they earn that'll still be much, much more than we do. City for instance have a 48K stadium (full every week) and Champions League revenues to fall back on. Chelsea much the same but a slightly smaller stadium. Then you have non CL teams such as Liverpool who have huge global revenues despite not eating at the top table right now. Plus sides such as Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Sunderland who have larger stadiums than us and therefore higher revenues.

 

I can't see that FFP will do anything but make it harder for us to compete against the top 6 sides, as we won't be able to rely on outside investment to propel us there in the first place. We'll need to keep spending £30M and upwards as we have been doing but at the same time balance the books. Or wel'll need to increase th stadium size, fill it every game, and ignore any repayments we'll have to make. Saying it'll be easier is thoroughly naive.

[CanadaSaint]

Saying it'll be easier is thoroughly naive.

 

You make some good points but ending them with that statement diminishes them. I might as well have said that anyone who doesn't buy into the "FFP will make it easier angle" is just a cynic with a negative outlook on life, but that wouldn't be fair or accurate, would it?

 

FFP is not about widening these gaps but about closing them. How it will actually turn out in the case of PL football is anybody's guess, but I've mentioned before that North American sports suffered from exactly the same issues and has managed to level the playing field quite well. Teams that couldn't compete with the "big boys" are winning things. At least one of them is playing in the Superbowl on Sunday, and hockey, baseball and basketball have all managed to achieve greater equality through FFP-type initiatives.

 

I have an open mind on this.

[Barry Sanchez]

Look. I'll make it simple for you. You said that we had never been successful. I said we had achieved the success of being runners up to Liverpool before now, coming second in the top flight.

 

Still with me?

 

The debate on this thread is about whether we could qualify for Europe by being one of the top four teams, is it not?

 

But you have said that you don't consider coming second in the top flight constitutes success.

 

Many others on here rule it out as ever being possible.

 

So having done it ourselves before (finishing in the top four), were we successful that year or not? And if we managed to come second now and qualified for the Champions League, would that be a success, or not? And if it would be classed as a success now, why don't you admit that it was a success then?

 

Understand?

 

I am not debating all that other stuff. Just your contention that we have never been successful. I really can't make it any plainer than that.

 

We have not in comparision to other clubs of our size and history, even Cortese your hero has acknowledged that by saying the tophy cabinet is empty so we do agree on something.

[Wes Tender]

We have not in comparision to other clubs of our size and history, even Cortese your hero has acknowledged that by saying the tophy cabinet is empty so we do agree on something.

 

What would it take for an argument to penetrate your cranium?

 

A simple question that I asked above and which I would like you to answer:-

 

If we managed to come second now and qualified for the Champions League, would that be a success, or not? And if it would be classed as a success now, why don't you admit that it was a success then?

 

Will you stop waffling on about teams around us, what is in our trophy cabinet, what other people have said. I'm not interested.

 

Just answer the question I have asked without deviating off on a tangent, if you are capable of that which given your past performance I very much doubt.

[The Kraken]

You make some good points but ending them with that statement diminishes them. I might as well have said that anyone who doesn't buy into the "FFP will make it easier angle" is just a cynic with a negative outlook on life, but that wouldn't be fair or accurate, would it?

 

FFP is not about widening these gaps but about closing them. How it will actually turn out in the case of PL football is anybody's guess, but I've mentioned before that North American sports suffered from exactly the same issues and has managed to level the playing field quite well. Teams that couldn't compete with the "big boys" are winning things. At least one of them is playing in the Superbowl on Sunday, and hockey, baseball and basketball have all managed to achieve greater equality through FFP-type initiatives.

 

I have an open mind on this.

 

I'm not sure how valid a lot of American sports are to us. American football, for instance; doesn't their season get determined by where they finished in previous seasons? So the sh*t teams get rewarded with an easy schedule, plus higher draft picks. That in itself is a self-levelling measure in addition to curtailing excess spending. And the draft exists in other US sports too. Though I'll accept, if its your contention, that FFP has helped in some way. I don't know enough about it to say either way.

 

In any case, the naive statement was more aimed at the original "FFP will be easier" statement not from yourself, which I saw as a hopeful but naive punt without any sort of rationale or explanation as to why it might be the case.

 

And furthermore, in spite of all I've said, I doubt if FFP will have quite the impact that it was intended for. I hope it does, as keeping a financial check on club's excessive spending is a good thing. But you only have to see the latest revelations from France with respect to Qatar buying Platini's WC vote in exchange for massive investment in PSG (and the fact that Platini's son has recently been added to the PSG board) to realise that the uber-rich clubs will continue to find ways around FFP. And how can SFC compete against that?

[Frank's cousin]

the fact we did borrow anything says it all...we have not even broken a sweat in spending if we want champions league in 3-5 years......if spending what we have required borrowing of ANY kind....then god knows what will happen in the next 3 years when monumental sums will be needed.....

 

Interesting that BVI loan a curve ball for sure - I can ONLY speculate. I do not think we have Man City cash levels, but I 'think' (not believe) we have sort provision - but its limited. I also suspect that NCs budgeting means this is not likely to be spent in one hit but be measured and the majority is for infrastructure. I suspect we recognised the need to spend a few £ to try and ensure we stayed up, and were thrown by the need to stump up the 12-15 mil for Gaston in one hit up front - hence a cash flow loan... this nis all speculation though.

 

As to whether we will ever be able to buy success without bank rupting ourselves - obviously not. As to getting ucky with a bunch of kids that have exceptional talent and stay together for a few seasons at least, who knows - but would rather we try and fail, than not to even bother and keep selling talent the moment anyone is interested. Just being IN the prem, is pointless unless you are more concerned about who we play - it is about winning matches (which is why the L1 and last NPC seasons were so enjoyable) and striving to win them all is surely a good thing no matter what the reality may dictate.

[CanadaSaint]

TK, the sports themselves are less relevant than the fact that the remedies were implemented to rectify exactly the same kind of problems - the "haves" being on a different planet to the "have nots". The equalization arrangements over here evolved over a period of time - it wasn't some blinding flash of brilliant, problem-correcting genius. And they experienced a lot of "push-back" from the "haves", who were quite happy with how things were. The remedies include things such as the draft system (the team finishing last gets first choice of the upcoming talent), revenue equalization (where the high-income teams effectively subsidize the low-income teams), and salary caps (aimed at making it far more difficult for big teams to corner all the top talent and sign players just to keep them away from rivals); I have never seen any suggestion that weaker teams should have an easier schedule.

 

Yes, teams will always find work-arounds but it's getting more and more difficult. In fact, there has been an increasing acceptance that "it's good for the sport". How remedies like that fit into football, where the PL big-boys might well react by threatening to head off and start a European super-league, an option not open to the NA sports, remains to be seen.

 

My "never say never" point about Saints reflects the fact that the measures over here took quite a while to evolve, and football has barely even started. But I do believe that once this process starts and gathers momentum, there will indeed be a levelling of the playing field. That - more than Cortese's vision, skill and financial backing - makes his and Markus's dream far less impossible than some are saying.

 

We can only hope, but I - for one - think football is always about hope.

[Highfield Saint]

Of all time.

 

Haha.

 

You know that?

 

Didn't realise your avatar was a photo

[The Kraken]

TK, the sports themselves are less relevant than the fact that the remedies were implemented to rectify exactly the same kind of problems - the "haves" being on a different planet to the "have nots". The equalization arrangements over here evolved over a period of time - it wasn't some blinding flash of brilliant, problem-correcting genius. And they experienced a lot of "push-back" from the "haves", who were quite happy with how things were. The remedies include things such as the draft system (the team finishing last gets first choice of the upcoming talent), revenue equalization (where the high-income teams effectively subsidize the low-income teams), and salary caps (aimed at making it far more difficult for big teams to corner all the top talent and sign players just to keep them away from rivals); I have never seen any suggestion that weaker teams should have an easier schedule.

 

Just to clarify this point; it is true to a certain extent, but won't have a major effect as since 2002 it only encompasses 2 games of a regular season.

 

NFL teams play:

- each team in their own division H&A

- each team from one other division in their conference H&A

- each team from one other division in the other conference H&A

 

plus, one game against two sides in its own conference that finished in the same place as they did the previous season. So if they finished 4th the previous season, they'd only play the 4th placed sides. 1st place and they'd play the 1st ranked sides. So a slightly harder schedule, but only marginally. Anyway, you had me doubting myself and thinking I'd made that up so best to clarify it!

 

In relation to your post; salary cap etc has certainly been mooted in certain corridors. I just wonder if that would ever pass due to the players complaining to the European Courts that their human rights were being discriminated against by having their wage earning potential limited by such measures...

[CanadaSaint]

In relation to your post; salary cap etc has certainly been mooted in certain corridors. I just wonder if that would ever pass due to the players complaining to the European Courts that their human rights were being discriminated against by having their wage earning potential limited by such measures...

 

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that.

 

Those legal challenges are always possible but there's no place in the world where 'principles' such as "unbridled free enterprise", "let the market dictate the price" and "let the weak die" rule life the way they do in the States. Any intervention in these concepts, by government or regulatory bodies, is fought "tooth and nail". And yet it still happened. As it must with football.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Of course it's possible - mostly anything is possible, if the conditions are right. Cortese can't guarantee anything other than putting in place all the ingredients to make the conditions right. And then inspire his staff to achieve.

 

So many losers on this forum talk about the possibility of us competing within the top 4 as if it will never happen because it's never happened before (err, we were pretty close some years back as I recall). Well that's a sure fire way of ensuring something will NOT happen! You can look back and say "we can never do that because we've not done it before", or you can take ownership and make history the way you want it. We put on a brilliant show against City, Utd and Chelski with not much more than a L1 squad, so with some class additions why can't we compete at the top? I repeat - it's definately possible...if not, what's the point?

 

(Cue all the losers shooting me down with reasons why top 4 will never happen and thus prove my point!).

[Wilko]

This is a QTWTAIN.

[Doctoroncall]

Post #104

 

If we've playing top trumps... Post #28

 

;-)

[CB Fry]

Of course it's possible - mostly anything is possible, if the conditions are right. Cortese can't guarantee anything other than putting in place all the ingredients to make the conditions right. And then inspire his staff to achieve.

 

So many losers on this forum talk about the possibility of us competing within the top 4 as if it will never happen because it's never happened before (err, we were pretty close some years back as I recall). Well that's a sure fire way of ensuring something will NOT happen! You can look back and say "we can never do that because we've not done it before", or you can take ownership and make history the way you want it. We put on a brilliant show against City, Utd and Chelski with not much more than a L1 squad, so with some class additions why can't we compete at the top? I repeat - it's definately possible...if not, what's the point?

 

(Cue all the losers shooting me down with reasons why top 4 will never happen and thus prove my point!).

 

 

 

Why do you stop at top four?

 

Why not winning the Champions League five years in a row?

 

Loser.

[david in sweden]

So we all know that big Nicola wants us to be top four, and that's all well and good and I applaud him for that because there's nothing worse than owners and managers who don't reach for the stars... but is this really something that we can think about reaching, really?

Obviously I'd love if we pushed for a Champions League place on a regular basis, but really is this something we can realistically see happening?

I just can't see any way we could breach the United-City-Chelsea-other wall...

 

actually he said top six in his Sky interview, and he didn't put a time-frame on it, other than to say that " keeping a team of young talented players for 3-4 years would make a big difference."

 

But successful teams revolve around one or two players ....we do mainly - in our case it's Rickie Lambert. When such players move on, it becomes a different ball game ( no pun intended).

Arsenal lost van Persie, and Chelsea Drogba...(and soon Frank Lampard and eventually John Terry), and struggle to replace them. They might not be top six forever !

It was hard to watch a Liverpool side with (goal-less) Torres playing, even more comical with Andy Carroll... and will be even more difficult for them when they (eventually) lose Steven Gerrard.

It takes time to get a new formation becasue (hard as they might look) ..there's only one Drogba....one Rooney etc,

 

It may be hard to see now, but if the upcoming Academy lads have half the talent that Walcott, Bale and Alex O-C had, and what we now see in Luke Shaw, then we won't have much to complain about.

 

On a day-to day basis Cortese and the backroom staff can see the potential, many people on here only see the problems.... and some are incredibly impatient into the bargain.

[krissyboy31]

At the end of the day it's down to how much money the owners are prepared to throw at it. You need a bit of luck and a bloody good Manager but if you spend to City proportions I don't think it really matters what size of club or what history it has, it will be successful. On a seperate issue I see that Pep Guardiola is being given a transfer budget of £230 million make ours look little meagre. Me thinks we have a way to go to compete with that.

[Turkish]

We are almost there already. We already have arugably as many match going fans as Everton, we have Corteses ambition and investment and a champions league standard training ground not finished. We have champions league standard posters around the stadium and champions league standard season ticket DVD packaging. We have a mad scramble for tickets for every home game and as we can see from the recent non sell outs, it's already back to the stage where people dont think they'll get a ticket so dont even bother trying, it seems like Cheslea we too have magiced up 20,000 extra fans from somewhere, we just need the stadium expand to fit them all in now. With our huge catchment area which covers something like 3/4's of the globe now the only thing that remains is a Yank to sign and sit on the bench for a few months and Southampton will be truely global.So much off the pitch is already champions league ready as we can see. Couple this with the undeniable evidence that man certainly did climb Everest AND walk on the moon, despite people saying they wouldn't and some might say that not only is the champions league achievable, our unstoppable march to it is on the home straight.

[stug76]

We are almost there already. We already have arugably as many match going fans as Everton, we have Corteses ambition and investment and a champions league standard training ground not finished. We have champions league standard posters around the stadium and champions league standard season ticket DVD packaging. We have a mad scramble for tickets for every home game and as we can see from the recent non sell outs, it's already back to the stage where people dont think they'll get a ticket so dont even bother trying, it seems like Cheslea we too have magiced up 20,000 extra fans from somewhere, we just need the stadium expand to fit them all in now. With our huge catchment area which covers something like 3/4's of the globe now the only thing that remains is a Yank to sign and sit on the bench for a few months and Southampton will be truely global.So much off the pitch is already champions league ready as we can see. Couple this with the undeniable evidence that man certainly did climb Everest AND walk on the moon, despite people saying they wouldn't and some might say that not only is the champions league achievable, our unstoppable march to it is on the home straight.

 

You are such a miserable ****! You are going to look so stupid!! Its happening!

[adrian lord]

If thats success (I disagree as you know) we are still very unsucccessful by standards of clubs smaller or similar size to us, there is no shame in that but I dont live with my head in the cluds either and know Cortese will have to spend 100's of Millions to compete.

 

The clubs with more trophies than us and are smaller or of a simlilar size (modern era or the era you quote I wont take the ****)

 

Ipswich Town

West Ham

Blackburn

Nottingham Forrest

Derby County

Thats off the top of my head.

 

So, presumably they were unsuccessful before they became successful, and are all now unsuccessful again. Proves nothing.

 

Today, success is down to money, pure and simple, from whatever source. Money does not respect history. If we have 300M£+ to invest over the next 5 years, we may make the top 6 and may get into the Champions' League, history or no history. Do we have that sort of money is the question.

[sotonjoe]

BVI loan...

 

then again..when we go into debt, its COMPLETELY different to everyone else

 

Exactly Delldays.

 

Saints fans are reacting exactly like the Skates did when their team started splashing the cash. We're potentially only one relegation away from everything going Pete Tong.

[Frank's cousin]

Exactly Delldays.

 

Saints fans are reacting exactly like the Skates did when their team started splashing the cash. We're potentially only one relegation away from everything going Pete Tong.

 

Er No. most fans are asking the question as to why this was needed - and as usual you get a full spectrum of answers ALL based on speculation, from the doom and gloomers to happy clappies - the TRUTH which no one knows 'probably' lies somewher in the middle - its indicative of the club NOT being able to 'readily' get its hands on some cash (how much we do not know) - This could be for a variety of reasons from, we are skint, to the TV rev payments being staged, to any provision left by Markus being in trust or only for infrastructure... and that we had to pay for Gaston up front...all speculation

 

The best guess if being rational, is that NC with his background is unlikely to be playing the 'lets put the lot on red (and white) and **** it and rumble' approach from down the road - it would be totally inconsistent with how he has approached things financially to date... therefore teh current best guess conclusion is that its a cash flow issue having invested 30 mil in players this year whilst we await the prem money ( or cash from Marcus's leagcy?) and that we have had to pay up front for Gaston as opposed to over 2 or 3 years.

 

We do not have Man City money, but I do not think at this time we are in the 'sheidt, we are on afinancial meltdown spiral' either. As to a relegation, I suspect ALL contracts have a relegation clause and as we have young players with good sell on potential + 48 mil in parachutes, I doubt we will be doing a rpeat of the last relegation should that happen... that is based on nothing but common sense

[Saint Fan CaM]

Whywitu stop at top four?

 

Why not winning the Champions League five years in a row?

 

Loser.

 

Sarcasm - lowest form of wit. You must lead a dark life - no hope, no belief. Yep, you sure proved me right, but at least you had the courage of your convictions and admitted to it.

[sotonjoe]

You wait. If we get relegated, all our best players will leave and we will be left with Rickie Lambert. Mr Football Manager will blame it on our failure to expand the stadium when we had the chance.

[Frank's cousin]

You wait. If we get relegated, all our best players will leave and we will be left with Rickie Lambert. Mr Football Manager will blame it on our failure to expand the stadium when we had the chance.

 

If we are relegated I am sure some of the best players will be SOLD. The revenue generated from that + parachutes will allow us to build again - because we HAVE been sensible by investing not only in younger players but also know there are other good youngsters coming through the academy... I can see why some are concerned, but I dont at this time believe we have anything to worry about on the financial side of things. Thats not happy clappy BS, it seems pretty much common sense based on what we know.

[CB Fry]

Sarcasm - lowest form of wit. You must lead a dark life - no hope, no belief. Yep, you sure proved me right, but at least you had the courage of your convictions and admitted to it.

 

Jesus Christ.

 

If its all right with you, I tend to save my hope and believe for my life and career, my family and especially my two girls.

 

If you equate "hope and belief" with mooning over whether or not your local football team gets into the fourth position in a league, a few times then bully for you. Fill your boots.

 

Me? I can quite happily get on with the rest of my life, and support my team wherever they end up.

Edited 29 January, 2013 by CB Fry

[sotonjoe]

Wow, if coping with relegation is so easy, I wonder why we made such a fist of it last time.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

The more successful. You are the more new and plastic fans you attract. ie: Chelsea.

[tajjuk]

Sorry, can you clarify this please? How is only being able to spend money that we actually earn (rather than being financially banrolled by a rich benefactor) going to make it easier rather than harder to compete with the top 4 (who earn vastly in excess of the sums we can expect to see in the short to medium term, with or without a larger stadium). Let alone competing with those outside the top 4 who turnover considerably more than us.

 

Sadly he is spot on.

 

The Financial Fair play rules are too late for Man City and Chelsea as both are establishing themseleves as top European earners so they will still be able to spend (and get round the rules with big sponsorships).

 

These rules will just ensure the status quo, the highest earning clubs will be able to spend the most, i.e pay more for transfers and more for wages. The only way clubs will be able to close the gap is by getting some top youth products into the first team, like Man Utd of the early 90's, i.e get 3 or 4 top level players that would cost £20 million + to buy for free thus not cutting into your turnover. You also would have to say do a West Brom, i.e be very shrewd in the transfer market, buy low, sell high thus bridging the income gap with the top 4. Then increase your marketing and off-field revenue streams, primarily that would get more fans through the door buying tickets, or buying shirts etc. To do that you need success, as our core 'will pretty much always turn up' fan base is about 20k or so based on our admin attendances. The next 10k are 'watch good players in the prem' or 'winning football' type fans, to push above that you need to get some 'watch a successful team with well known players' type fans.

 

If we could get an FA cup and Euro run we could push the fans numbers up by about 15 -20%, if you can then capitalise from there you could possibly keep them and get higher gates (if we had the space) which might put us on a similar level to say Spurs and Everton with regards to spending power. From there though there is quite a big leap to the Liverpool/Chelsea level turnover who would be getting 10k + more fans, plus their overseas merchandising/marketing money.

Edited 30 January, 2013 by tajjuk

[dubai_phil]

Piece of cake.

 

It's all about the Plan.

 

Save hope & belief for life & work & family? Bullsh1t - you need a Lifecoach to create a plan

 

Does the News/Economy/Politics get you feeling like Alpine? Bullsh1t you need a Positive Mental Attitude Training Course to give you a plan

 

Once you have a Plan everything is a piece of cake.

 

NC has a plan. He's the only person in the world to have ever thought of having a plan.

 

He will succeed, not even worth debating

[Saint86]

As unlikely as it would appear to be, nobody can say with 100% certainty that it is an impossibility.

 

You only have to look to the examples of the teams that you have listed to see that the football landscape is constantly changing. Liverpool would have been unassailable if this debate was held 5 years ago, but then Manchester City wouldn't have been there bracketed together with United and Chelsea, and go back a little further and Chelsea wouldn't have been there either and it's only during the past few seasons that Spurs have risen once more towards the top and yet you describe them as really big juggernauts.

 

Several factors will have a direct bearing on the situation over the next few years. New legislation by Football's governing bodies will attempt to level the playing field regarding the percentage of turnover that can be spent on players and their wages. Managers at the top like Ferguson will change, as will owners. Nobody can predict with any degree of certainty what the effect of all these changes will be on the hierarchy of the Premiership. During my lifetime, I've seen substantial changes already and that gives me an open mind about these things, so that whereas I think that it would be unlikely for us to achieve Champions League football, I don't rule it out entirely.

 

Wes you have really missed an understanding of FFP.

 

It doesn't/won't "level the playing field"... it fixes it in its current form.

 

We are in a very good position going into this, if you compare us to stoke (who spend a fortune most seasons - net spend) we have a good youth setup that can take some of the load. This is good for us vs a lot of the premier teams.

 

But we are getting some financial doping (training ground, £39m this year on players), and we are getting it to late to circumvent FFP. Now I know FFP isn't designed to stop investment in facilities etc, but the fact remains that the money comes from wealthy backers or player transfers. Bearing in mind our wealth, and Cortese's track record... if he says we are going places then I am not going to argue. But FFP is not going to level the playing field. Big clubs would not vote for it if that was the case. Just like EPPP. Its a sham to keep those at the top.. at the top.

[Wes Tender]

Wes you have really missed an understanding of FFP.

 

It doesn't/won't "level the playing field"... it fixes it in its current form.

 

We are in a very good position going into this, if you compare us to stoke (who spend a fortune most seasons - net spend) we have a good youth setup that can take some of the load. This is good for us vs a lot of the premier teams.

 

But we are getting some financial doping (training ground, £39m this year on players), and we are getting it to late to circumvent FFP. Now I know FFP isn't designed to stop investment in facilities etc, but the fact remains that the money comes from wealthy backers or player transfers. Bearing in mind our wealth, and Cortese's track record... if he says we are going places then I am not going to argue. But FFP is not going to level the playing field. Big clubs would not vote for it if that was the case. Just like EPPP. Its a sham to keep those at the top.. at the top.

 

My mention of the FFP was one sentence in a paragraph about several changes that might affect the footballing landscape. And I described it as an attempt to level the playing field. I don't think that I have missed the understanding of what it is intended to do and I don't think that the intention was to fix the situation in its current form. A precis of their aims would suggest otherwise.

 

• to introduce more discipline and rationality in club football finances;

• to decrease pressure on salaries and transfer fees and limit inflationary effect;

• to encourage clubs to compete with(in) their revenues;

• to encourage long-term investments in the youth sector and infrastructure;

• to protect the long-term viability of European club football;

• to ensure clubs settle their liabilities on a timely basis.

 

However, despite the best intentions of UEFA, I do accept that to an extent the big clubs have a distinct advantage, as they are World brands and generate massive amounts of income because of their media exposure and merchandising. At least as you say, our investments in our youth sector and infrastructure will benefit us. I would imagine that Cortese with his background ought to be quite well versed in all this and aware of how things might be exploited to our best advantage.

[Thedelldays]

Finacial fair play will not be regulated across Europe for a long time

 

Not in a form that is anything meaningful