Nigel Adkins Out of His Depth

[Horton Heath Saint]

Something had to be done.

Adkins, Crosby, Wilkins, Stannard are not were we want to be.

They are a brilliant league management team, not Premiership.

They done their job, albeit fantastic, however they never had the know how of the Premiership, they were learning as they went along.

I don't think they could put us on to the next level, they looked frightened to be there, out of their depth.

Think Cortese saw this and maybe most of the supporters too. I did.

Also heard rumours today, disagreements with players and Nigel??? Any news?

[Saint Garrett]

This not been done yet?!

[Saint Fan CaM]

Feed the Turskatish. Nice.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Something had to be done.

Adkins, Crosby, Wilkins, Stannard are not were we want to be.

They are a brilliant league management team, not Premiership.

They done their job, albeit fantastic, however they never had the know how of the Premiership, they were learning as they went along.

I don't think they could put us on to the next level, they looked frightened to be there, out of their depth.

Think Cortese saw this and maybe most of the supporters too. I did.

Also heard rumours today, disagreements with players and Nigel??? Any news?

Such a lucid argument. You have convinced me 100%

[St Lej]

Something had to be done.

Adkins, Crosby, Wilkins, Stannard are not were we want to be.

They are a brilliant league management team, not Premiership.

They done their job, albeit fantastic, however they never had the know how of the Premiership, they were learning as they went along.

I don't think they could put us on to the next level, they looked frightened to be there, out of their depth.

Think Cortese saw this and maybe most of the supporters too. I did.

Also heard rumours today, disagreements with players and Nigel??? Any news?

 

 

Is this a wind up? My guess it probably is, but just in case it isn'tI, it's utter drivel and just excitable nonsense just because today we've been linked with some exciting players.

[Cascadia Saint]

Something had to be done.

Adkins, Crosby, Wilkins, Stannard are not were we want to be.

They are a brilliant league management team, not Premiership.

They done their job, albeit fantastic, however they never had the know how of the Premiership, they were learning as they went along.

I don't think they could put us on to the next level, they looked frightened to be there, out of their depth.

Think Cortese saw this and maybe most of the supporters too. I did.

Also heard rumours today, disagreements with players and Nigel??? Any news?

 

Maybe most of the supporters too? The ones that sang One Nigel Adkins every game?

 

Every premier league manager had, at some point, no 'know-how' of the premier league.

 

Muppet.

[Smirking_Saint]

He would probably have kept us up but not sure he was able to deliver what Cortese wants from us in the long term TBH.

 

You could tell it was his first foray into prem Management put it that way, made a few mistakes which cost us some valuable points but TBH he was slowly moving in the right direction and learning. IMO he wasnt getting the best out of our better players in Gaston and Rickie and probably isnt a big enough attraction for exciting new imports.

 

All in all its unfortunate but not unexpected, if not now I would have imagined him to go in the summer.

 

Fwiw saying he was out of his depth is a bit melodramatic but to think he could have done any more than scraped survival is also drivvel IMO

 

Btw players and managers always have the odd dpat, it comes with the teritory

[Tamesaint]

Who was saying that thisforum would start to see PR plants?

[Suomi Saint]

OP's opinion - what a load of absolute nonsense.

[trousers]

Who was saying that thisforum would start to see PR plants?

 

At least they're easy to spot though

[Alain Perrin]

Who was saying that thisforum would start to see PR plants?

 

PR plants would use paragraphs.

 

Fact is Nigel was out of his depth at the beginning of the season but, like many of the players, he was learning to swim. He made mistakes, like many of the players, but the fundamentals were (in my opinion) sound. If you believe in happy endings, he would have probably got us to where Cortese wants to go but not half as fast as Cortese wants to get there.

 

The one area I think NA was lacking was one that he couldn't learn - and that is international profile. Do you think Pep or Jose would know of 'our Nige' - unlikely, and the same would be true of players we were trying to attract. Having played for Argentina and managed in La Liga, Pochettino at least has that. Spending big is a way of getting there faster. And say what you like about NA, but his signings were typically English and from the lower leagues (understandably).

 

Cortese probably thought, loyalty, schmoyalty - I want results.

 

As an afterthought, I do wonder if when Nigel took the job he was told that it was to get us to the Premiership and then Cortese would reassess. Hence the emotion after promotion last year - that might be reading too much into a highly charged situation, but if he thought his job was done (or uncertain), would explain the comments.

 

It is far to early to say whether MP does the business, but is probably better placed than NA to do it quicker; but that depends on us staying up.

 

p.s. If there were big rumblings from the players I've not heard of them (at least not before the sacking).

[Bucks Saint]

Tosh. Go work for the Daily Mail

[Professor]

Forming a good premiership side playing good football and looking likely to avoid relegation in the first season = out of his depth

 

In what world does this make sense?

Adrian - 22 points from 22 games does not mean 'likely to avoid relegation'. Recent games against mid-table and bottom of the table sides is not representative of the season over which Adkins had a 1 point per game avarage. That form equals 38 points at the end of the season, which some years is relegation and some years is staying up by the skin of your teeth. There could have been a case for waiting until the end of the season before replacing the manager and coaching staff, but the risk of that is that we could have been relegated and starting all over again in the Championship.

 

Try looking at the positive: That a point per game is not good enough for the Chairman, which suggests that his ambitions for the club are greater than that. Whether Pochettino will achieve better, only time will tell but he does look the part, seems to be getting on well with the players, and is well regarded in Spain. Cortese will not have chosen him on a whim but will have considered other potential candidates and if you liked Pardew, and liked Adkins, then Cortese's record of manager selection is OK.

 

Adkins was appointed to do a job in L1 and the Championship, which he did, but that does not automatically make him a good Prem manager and unfortunately for him, the record for him and his coaching staff at this level has been mediocre.

[CaneNero]

I always thought that Adkins would need the whole season to adjust and that our performances would reflect that. I hope he's given another chance as this time in the prem will no doubt make him a better manager.

[David Strover]

The fawning over Liverpool really annoyed me and I and others have said the players, early in the season, looked overawed and frightened to be playing where they were. I genuinely think there was too much emphasis on how the 'Premier League' was the best league in the world and everyone was 'world class'.

 

Stop banging on about it and get on with your jobs!

[a1ex2001]

1 out of 10 your trolling skills are as poor as your use of the English language.

[Norm]

Something had to be done.

Adkins, Crosby, Wilkins, Stannard are not were we want to be.

They are a brilliant league management team, not Premiership.

They done their job, albeit fantastic, however they never had the know how of the Premiership, they were learning as they went along.

I don't think they could put us on to the next level, they looked frightened to be there, out of their depth.

Think Cortese saw this and maybe most of the supporters too. I did.

Also heard rumours today, disagreements with players and Nigel??? Any news?

 

I read Fairy stories to my grandchildren most nights. Just like you, I make things up as I go.

[Wes Tender]

1 out of 10 your trolling skills are as poor as your use of the English language.

 

Agreed. And the worst thing with these trolls is that they start new threads with opinions that could easily be added onto other threads. A troll, definitely. A skate, maybe.

[St_Tel49]

Adrian - 22 points from 22 games does not mean 'likely to avoid relegation'. Recent games against mid-table and bottom of the table sides is not representative of the season over which Adkins had a 1 point per game avarage. That form equals 38 points at the end of the season, which some years is relegation and some years is staying up by the skin of your teeth. There could have been a case for waiting until the end of the season before replacing the manager and coaching staff, but the risk of that is that we could have been relegated and starting all over again in the Championship.

 

Try looking at the positive: That a point per game is not good enough for the Chairman, which suggests that his ambitions for the club are greater than that. Whether Pochettino will achieve better, only time will tell but he does look the part, seems to be getting on well with the players, and is well regarded in Spain. Cortese will not have chosen him on a whim but will have considered other potential candidates and if you liked Pardew, and liked Adkins, then Cortese's record of manager selection is OK.

 

Adkins was appointed to do a job in L1 and the Championship, which he did, but that does not automatically make him a good Prem manager and unfortunately for him, the record for him and his coaching staff at this level has been mediocre.

Rubbish. Leave aside the first few games against top opposition and taking account of the learning curve their record is far from mediocre

[Thedelldays]

Rubbish. Leave aside the first few games against top opposition and taking account of the learning curve their record is far from mediocre

 

But you don't or can't leave aside certain games. They all count

 

The gazzaniga situation was utterly laughable. Keeping with a keeper that was almost throwing the ball in the net

 

He clearly has good attribute but to throw him in from where he had only played a few games was laughable

 

Especially with boruc in the squad

I would even say that a half fit boruc would not have let that goal in against Norwich and had we stuck with boruc from the off, we would have got match sharpness to start with

 

We have still only won 3 games at home... Despite playing nearly all the teams around us at home....

Edited 24 January, 2013 by Thedelldays

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

87 posts and you decide to write something controversial with such a poor argument to back it up?

 

Sorry mate, but you have to earn the right to do that on this board...

[Ex Lion Tamer]

But you don't or can't leave aside certain games. They all count

 

The gazzaniga situation was utterly laughable. Keeping with a keeper that was almost throwing the ball in the net

 

He clearly has good attribute but to throw him in from where he had only played a few games was laughable

 

Especially with boruc in the squad

I would even say that a half for boruc would not have let that goal in against Norwich and had we stuck with boruc from the off, we would have got match sharpness to start with

 

We have still only won 3 games at home... Despite playing nearly all the teams around us at home....

 

We don't know what went on behind the scenes though. Maybe Boruc's attitude was wrong with regard to getting his fitness and he needed to be punished with a spell on the sidelines. I just find it hard to believe that Adkins would be foolish enough to stick with Gazza otherwise

[Ex Lion Tamer]

 

Every premier league manager had, at some point, no 'know-how' of the premier league.

 

Muppet.

 

They do if they've played in it

[Bucks Saint]

But you don't or can't leave aside certain games. They all count

 

The gazzaniga situation was utterly laughable. Keeping with a keeper that was almost throwing the ball in the net

 

He clearly has good attribute but to throw him in from where he had only played a few games was laughable

 

Especially with boruc in the squad

I would even say that a half fit boruc would not have let that goal in against Norwich and had we stuck with boruc from the off, we would have got match sharpness to start with

 

We have still only won 3 games at home... Despite playing nearly all the teams around us at home....

 

But equally you can't just say 22 points from 22 games means we are going to finish on 38. This ignores the last 11 games record, which just happened to coincide with some new players bedding in and some learning on the part of both existing players and management. I did not know, until the OP made it clear, that learning and improving was such a crime

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

They do if they've played in it

 

 

Or if they'd coached or been an Assistant Manager in it.

[Thedelldays]

But equally you can't just say 22 points from 22 games means we are going to finish on 38. This ignores the last 11 games record, which just happened to coincide with some new players bedding in and some learning on the part of both existing players and management. I did not know, until the OP made it clear, that learning and improving was such a crime

 

It is not a crime... Nor was it very good... Especially for the money spent

[Bucks Saint]

They do if they've played in it

 

Oh oh. Someone tell MP

[Bucks Saint]

It is not a crime... Nor was it very good... Especially for the money spent

 

But you agree, concluding 38 is what we were due to finish on was wrong then

[red&white56]

Something had to be done.

Adkins, Crosby, Wilkins, Stannard are not were we want to be.

They are a brilliant league management team, not Premiership.

They done their job, albeit fantastic, however they never had the know how of the Premiership, they were learning as they went along.

I don't think they could put us on to the next level, they looked frightened to be there, out of their depth.

Think Cortese saw this and maybe most of the supporters too. I did.

Also heard rumours today, disagreements with players and Nigel??? Any news?

 

I don't agree - getting a 2-2 draw at Chelsea, fighting back from 2-0 down and a 0-0 draw against a good Everton team is not the performance of a frightened team or manager.

 

It's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but don't say "most supporters" agree when there's no evidence to back this up.

Edited 24 January, 2013 by red&white56
correcting typos

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Oh oh. Someone tell MP

 

He's played at the highest level at least. At lot of people seem to value Premier League experience for players as well as managers but what's really important is top level experience

[Thedelldays]

But you agree, concluding 38 is what we were due to finish on was wrong then

 

Yes, IMO it would have been lower.

We had a run of home games that were massively favourable. We still cant beat anyone above 16th. And we're still giving away leads....

 

That is my opinion.

[Bucks Saint]

He's played at the highest level at least. At lot of people seem to value Premier League experience for players as well as managers but what's really important is top level experience

 

Yep agreed. Just wish we had someone in his team who had experience of English football / transfers / contacts. Oh silly me I forgot about Sir Les!

[Thedelldays]

Yep agreed. Just wish we had someone in his team who had experience of English football / transfers / contacts. Oh silly me I forgot about Sir Les!

 

Take the mick. But have not done too bad so far.... Have we?

[Bucks Saint]

Take the mick. But have not done too bad so far.... Have we?

 

I think we have done pretty well, but you can't seem to make to up your mind if its not good enough, or not too bad

[Wes Tender]

Yes, IMO it would have been lower.

We had a run of home games that were massively favourable. We still cant beat anyone above 16th. And we're still giving away leads....

 

That is my opinion.

 

You can't really make a realistic assessment, because the team will be changed by the one or more new players signed before the window closes. But even without allowing for that, Adkins had achieved a 1 point a game average and it obviously escaped your notice that we had a pretty tough run of matches to begin the campaign, arguably the toughest opening run of fixtures in the history of the Premiership. There are still plenty enough games to go so that we will have a fairly even run in of easier and more difficult games, as will all of the teams around us.

 

You've expressed your opinion that Adkins would have amassed less than a point a game, but it is my opinion that Pochettino will not do better than Adkins would have. But of course, that cannot be proven either way, as Adkins would have benefited from the additional new player/s too, so futile arguing it.

[Thedelldays]

I think we have done pretty well, but you can't seem to make to up your mind if its not good enough, or not too bad

 

I think we have demonstrated we want to be fairly ambitious in the transfer market and have picked up some good players

 

Boruc, clyne, yosh, Ramirez, are top quality IMO

 

Just did not see Nigel use them properly at times and kept gifting so many goals and points.

 

I know it was tough with the start. But you have to beat some of these better teams. So far, we can't beat anyone above 16th....

 

Time will tell if MP does a good job or not. But I could see nothing but relegation with Nigel. Sadly

 

To be honest, I can't see Nigel getting another prem job (unless he promotes a team)... Which will speak volumes with regards to the press saying it was a disgrace sacking him... I agree it was with regards to how it was done but not the actual fact it was done.

 

I hastily said that MP coming I will send us down. But then I thought Adkins was anyway

[chocco boxo]

Thought from OP , Nigel had decided to go on that Splash.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

They do if they've played in it

 

How then do you explain the Jose Mourinho's, AVB's, Sven Goran Eriksson's and Roy Hodgson's then?

[eurosaint]

How then do you explain the Jose Mourinho's, AVB's, Sven Goran Eriksson's and Roy Hodgson's then?

 

And Ferguson, Mancini, Benitez, Wenger, Moyes, Rodgers, Laudrup or Pulis !

 

In fact, as many top flight managers today have not played in the top English league as those that have ! (and McDermott, Clarke, Allardyce, Hughton etc.. were not exactly superstars!).

[John B]

I think we have demonstrated we want to be fairly ambitious in the transfer market and have picked up some good players

 

Boruc, clyne, yosh, Ramirez, are top quality IMO

 

Just did not see Nigel use them properly at times and kept gifting so many goals and points.

 

I know it was tough with the start. But you have to beat some of these better teams. So far, we can't beat anyone above 16th....

 

Time will tell if MP does a good job or not. But I could see nothing but relegation with Nigel. Sadly

 

To be honest, I can't see Nigel getting another prem job (unless he promotes a team)... Which will speak volumes with regards to the press saying it was a disgrace sacking him... I agree it was with regards to how it was done but not the actual fact it was done.

 

I hastily said that MP coming I will send us down. But then I thought Adkins was anyway

 

I thought it was the players who gifted the goals not Adkins

 

I doubt Adkins told Gassa to pass to Yosh who badly controlled the ball so that Swansea could score

 

Be sensible not every loss is down to the manager

[Thedelldays]

But Adkins picked gazza time and time again. Now, he can't even make the bench..

 

Adkins picked fox time and time again

 

Adkins moved Ramirez round

 

We were very gung Ho at times.

 

The keeper situation was a joke IMO

 

I know not every loss was down to the manager. But too many points dropped were because of him early on...well, not early on, even up to stoke

Edited 24 January, 2013 by Thedelldays

[shurlock]

Ultimately there was a lot of snobbery towards Nige: the unconventional football background, the goofy personality, the Birkenhead accent, tango tan and M&S suit. If that 'look' was seen as progressive at the turn of the century -when managers dressed and behaved like Micky Adams, it's not today where you have to be more 'cosmopolitan'. A similar snobbery cost Warnock.

[Wes Tender]

I thought it was the players who gifted the goals not Adkins

 

I doubt Adkins told Gassa to pass to Yosh who badly controlled the ball so that Swansea could score

 

Be sensible not every loss is down to the manager

 

You're quite right of course. Goals scored against us were sometimes the fault of mistakes by defenders or the goalie, as were missed shots the fault of the strikers who sometimes should have done better. TDD reckons that a lot of the blame for these dropped points is due to Adkins' team choice or tactics, but apparently none of those decisions were made because of injuries, fear of suspensions, tactically because a player was slowing up or carrying a knock, or to negate a tactical switch by the other team.

 

Not that he would have any real idea whether the decisions were justified or not without the benefit of that information .

[teacher]

Something had to be done.

Adkins, Crosby, Wilkins, Stannard are not were we want to be.

They are a brilliant league management team, not Premiership.

They done their job, albeit fantastic, however they never had the know how of the Premiership, they were learning as they went along.

I don't think they could put us on to the next level, they looked frightened to be there, out of their depth.

Think Cortese saw this and maybe most of the supporters too. I did.

Also heard rumours today, disagreements with players and Nigel??? Any news?

 

Lost 2 in 12? What are you on?

[Mr X]

we swap someone without premiership experience for someone without premiership experience and without experience of speaking english makes total sense whats not to understand

[Ex Lion Tamer]

And Ferguson, Mancini, Benitez, Wenger, Moyes, Rodgers, Laudrup or Pulis !

 

In fact, as many top flight managers today have not played in the top English league as those that have ! (and McDermott, Clarke, Allardyce, Hughton etc.. were not exactly superstars!).

 

Ok they didn't necessarily play at the top level but they observed how top clubs operate in other roles, eg Mourniho was interpreter at Barcelona, AVB worked in lesser roles at Porto before becoming manager.

 

Anyway, I was responding to the assertion that all managers lack top flight experience until they get it. In fact most get that experience in other roles (I'm sure there are exceptions).

 

Adkins has been at a disadvantage compared to most rookie managers as he has never worked within a top flight club in any capacity

[Saint_clark]

Lost 2 in 12? What are you on?

 

Or won 2 in 12.

[Saint_clark]

we swap someone without premiership experience for someone without premiership experience and without experience of speaking english makes total sense whats not to understand

 

He said on sky the other day he does understand English but his pronunciation is not brilliant. Better to use a translator rather than have him fumbling his way through an interview and mispronouncing words, sí?

[Seaford Saint]

Adkins had to go...the guy was useless.....back to back promotions, how hard are they to achieve? Anyone could have done that. Disaster in the Prem.....only got us up to 15th

 

He had to go - shocking manager....

[Wes Tender]

He said on sky the other day he does understand English but his pronunciation is not brilliant. Better to use a translator rather than have him fumbling his way through an interview and mispronouncing words, sí?

 

Si is Spanish or Italian. I think the Portuguese word you were looking for is Sim