Are people beginning to see what Cortese is up to?

[ByTheGolacs]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11096/8428233/Saints-masterplan

 

Of course, it may just be that newspapers need to 'evolve' their articles if they want to keep something in the news for more than a few days, but could it also be that now the dust is beginning to settle most people are coming round to the idea that there may be some logic to removing Adkins?

[Olallana]

Nice sensible article.

[sandwichsaint]

I don't have a problem with the vision; watching the first half on Monday evening you could really see this team has the potential to go a long way.

 

I loved NA and he could have been here 10 years for me, but if NC has gone for an upgrade, what the hell, let's hang on and enjoy the ride.

 

I saw us out-play Arsenal, compete very well at Chelsea and totally outplay Everton for 45 minutes .... starting to grow the feeling that we could be on to the start of something really good with this group of players.

 

Great response from the players and the fans on Monday night and if NewMan can bring in a couple of Michu-style upgrades in the window, AND BLEND THEM INTO THE EXISTING GROUP, that can only be for the good.

 

Realistically most rational people could see that NA was never going to be a big enough name for NC's ambitions (irrespective of his actual ability), the bit that most people would quibble with was the manner of his dismissal - totally gutless of NC to inform him via the media and he deserved far better.

 

I'm over it, I will never forget NA and there's many happy memories but onwards and upwards.

[trousers]

Are people beginning to see what Cortese is up to?

 

 

Yes, I've understood it from the beginning, hence last Friday's events not surprising me in the slightest.

 

One thing that struck me in Pochettino's first interviews after joining was the regular reference to "the project"....which is a good way of looking at it. I work in the IT world and you generally work to c.5 year programmes and each programme will be comprised of several projects. It's common practice for project managers to specialise in different phases of a given programme. Nigel Adkins got assigned the "Get us to the premier league" project, or 'phase' of the programme. Pochettino is now managing the next phase....call it the "Take us into Europe" phase, or "project", if you will.

 

When people and the media look at Adkins being "sacked" and question the madness of the timing of it, what they are not doing is seeing the bigger picture IMO. It's quite clear to me that Cortese would have planned for the next "project manager" to have taken over from the previous project manager in the summer, as that was the natural delimiter between the two phases. But, what if the best project manager wasn't available to take over at that time? What do you do? What would we do in the IT world equivalent?

 

We'd do exactly what Cortese did....in the interests of continuity you would get the previous phase project manager to assume temporary control of the early stages of the next phase until your man became available.

 

I'm pretty sure Nigel knew WHAT was going to happen - quite possibly from the day he joined - I'm pretty sure he would have been expecting to go in the summer when 'his' project was successfully delivered.

 

We'll never know for sure if Cortese handled the eventual "exit day" with any sensitivity towards Adkins or not, but maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it. If this was an IT work stream / programme and I was in the Adkins roll of 'phase 1 project manager' I would know that there would come a day where, all of a sudden, the next project manager would become available and I would move on to something else. So, what might seem like a callous hatchet job to the outside world might actually just be a perception issue.

 

Anyway, rambling on a bit there, but the bottom line is that I 100% get Cortese's "Project" concept....perhaps its the football world that needs to catch up with successful business methodologies being used in an "old fashioned industry" such as football.

 

Ok, shoot me down....

Edited 23 January, 2013 by trousers

[VectisSaint]

Same article as being discussed on another thread, it is on Sky and football365, authored by Nick Miller. Threads could be combined.

[richie]

Yes, I've understood it from the beginning, hence last Friday's events not surprising me in the slightest.

 

One thing that struck me in Pochettino's first interviews after joining was the regular reference to "the project"....which is a good way of looking at it. I work in the IT world and you generally work to c.5 year programmes and each programme will be comprised of several projects. It's common practice for project managers to specialise in different phases of a given programme. Nigel Adkins got assigned the "Get us to the premier league" project, or 'phase' of the programme. Pochettino is now managing the next phase....call it the "Take us into Europe" phase, or "project", if you will.

 

When people and the media look at Adkins being "sacked" and question the madness of the timing of it, what they are not doing is seeing the bigger picture IMO. It's quite clear to me that Cortese would have planned for the next "project manager" to have taken over from the previous project manager in the summer, as that was the natural delimiter between the two phases. But, what if the best project manager wasn't available to take over at that time? What do you do? What would we do in the IT world equivalent?

 

We'd do exactly what Cortese did....in the interests of continuity you would get the previous phase project manager to assume temporary control of the early stages of the next phase until your man became available.

 

I'm pretty sure Nigel knew WHAT was going to happen - quite possibly from the day he joined - I'm pretty sure he would have been expecting to go in the summer when 'his' project was successfully delivered.

 

We'll never know for sure if Cortese handled the eventual "exit day" with any sensitivity towards Adkins or not, but maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it. If this was an IT work stream / programme and I was in the Adkins roll of 'phase 1 project manager' I would know that there would come a day where, all of a sudden, the next project manager would become available and I would move on to something else. So, what might seem like a callous hatchet job to the outside world might actually just be a perception issue.

 

Anyway, rambling on a bit there, but the bottom line is that I 100% get Cortese's "Project" concept....perhaps its the football world that needs to catch up with successful business methodologies being used in an "old fashioned industry" such as football.

 

Ok, shoot me down....

 

 

Al lot of foreign manager talk about projects. I wouldnt read too much into that phrase.

 

In fact I hate that phrase.

[badgerx16]

In reply to Trousers - above :

 

So the main thing NA did wrong was to deliver the project ahead of schedule ?

 

I think this sort of analysis might well provide an insight into NA's reactions after the Coventry game at the end of last season.

[Junior Mullet]

Yes, I've understood it from the beginning, hence last Friday's events not surprising me in the slightest.

 

One thing that struck me in Pochettino's first interviews after joining was the regular reference to "the project"....which is a good way of looking at it. I work in the IT world and you generally work to c.5 year programmes and each programme will be comprised of several projects. It's common practice for project managers to specialise in different phases of a given programme. Nigel Adkins got assigned the "Get us to the premier league" project, or 'phase' of the programme. Pochettino is now managing the next phase....call it the "Take us into Europe" phase, or "project", if you will.

 

When people and the media look at Adkins being "sacked" and question the madness of the timing of it, what they are not doing is seeing the bigger picture IMO. It's quite clear to me that Cortese would have planned for the next "project manager" to have taken over from the previous project manager in the summer, as that was the natural delimiter between the two phases. But, what if the best project manager wasn't available to take over at that time? What do you do? What would we do in the IT world equivalent?

 

We'd do exactly what Cortese did....in the interests of continuity you would get the previous phase project manager to assume temporary control of the early stages of the next phase until your man became available.

 

I'm pretty sure Nigel knew WHAT was going to happen - quite possibly from the day he joined - I'm pretty sure he would have been expecting to go in the summer when 'his' project was successfully delivered.

 

We'll never know for sure if Cortese handled the eventual "exit day" with any sensitivity towards Adkins or not, but maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it. If this was an IT work stream / programme and I was in the Adkins roll of 'phase 1 project manager' I would know that there would come a day where, all of a sudden, the next project manager would become available and I would move on to something else. So, what might seem like a callous hatchet job to the outside world might actually just be a perception issue.

 

Anyway, rambling on a bit there, but the bottom line is that I 100% get Cortese's "Project" concept....perhaps its the football world that needs to catch up with successful business methodologies being used in an "old fashioned industry" such as football.

 

Ok, shoot me down....

 

Beautifully put. Rarely see such good posts on here these days.

[trousers]

In reply to Trousers - above :

 

So the main thing NA did wrong was to deliver the project ahead of schedule ?

 

 

Pretty much I reckon.

[dingbattigger]

Yes, I've understood it from the beginning, hence last Friday's events not surprising me in the slightest.

 

One thing that struck me in Pochettino's first interviews after joining was the regular reference to "the project"....which is a good way of looking at it. I work in the IT world and you generally work to c.5 year programmes and each programme will be comprised of several projects. It's common practice for project managers to specialise in different phases of a given programme. Nigel Adkins got assigned the "Get us to the premier league" project, or 'phase' of the programme. Pochettino is now managing the next phase....call it the "Take us into Europe" phase, or "project", if you will.

 

When people and the media look at Adkins being "sacked" and question the madness of the timing of it, what they are not doing is seeing the bigger picture IMO. It's quite clear to me that Cortese would have planned for the next "project manager" to have taken over from the previous project manager in the summer, as that was the natural delimiter between the two phases. But, what if the best project manager wasn't available to take over at that time? What do you do? What would we do in the IT world equivalent?

 

We'd do exactly what Cortese did....in the interests of continuity you would get the previous phase project manager to assume temporary control of the early stages of the next phase until your man became available.

 

I'm pretty sure Nigel knew WHAT was going to happen - quite possibly from the day he joined - I'm pretty sure he would have been expecting to go in the summer when 'his' project was successfully delivered.

 

We'll never know for sure if Cortese handled the eventual "exit day" with any sensitivity towards Adkins or not, but maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it. If this was an IT work stream / programme and I was in the Adkins roll of 'phase 1 project manager' I would know that there would come a day where, all of a sudden, the next project manager would become available and I would move on to something else. So, what might seem like a callous hatchet job to the outside world might actually just be a perception issue.

 

Anyway, rambling on a bit there, but the bottom line is that I 100% get Cortese's "Project" concept....perhaps its the football world that needs to catch up with successful business methodologies being used in an "old fashioned industry" such as football.

 

Ok, shoot me down....

 

Well explained that man and spot on I believe. I still have a problem with Adkins sacking, Not the fact that it was done as I'd been expecting it, but the way it was done without so much as a thank you or having the decency to tell him before the press did.

[trousers]

Well explained that man and spot on I believe. I still have a problem with Adkins sacking, Not the fact that it was done as I'd been expecting it, but the way it was done without so much as a thank you or having the decency to tell him before the press did.

 

Yep, agree with that. I guess the publicity issue doesn't arise in my dull IT world analogy. In this scenario it would be perfectly normal for me to be called into the Programme Manager's office on the same morning that the new project manager arrived on the scene and be told I was no longer on the job. I guess that's the bit Cortese perhaps doesn't appreciate - that he's conducting "normal" business practises in the full glare of the world's media.

[a1ex2001]

I've never disagreed with the logic, if he thinks he is doing the right thing to move the club forward then thats fine but he doesn't need to go about his business like an arrogant tosser! If he had just treated Nigel with a little respect I wouldn't be quite so bitter about it but sacking such a decent bloke and great servant of the club via sky sports news and then failing to publicly thank him (properly) for his contributions was indecent.

[The Kraken]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11096/8428233/Saints-masterplan

 

Of course, it may just be that newspapers need to 'evolve' their articles if they want to keep something in the news for more than a few days, but could it also be that now the dust is beginning to settle most people are coming round to the idea that there may be some logic to removing Adkins?

Having read a lot of opinion about it, I'd suggest that a lot of people already see some logic of not sticking with NA. I certainly was not convinced that he was the right man to take us forwards if we truly are intent upon a shy at the top 6 and upwards. What seems to have irked the most is the timing of the event and the manner in which it has been handled, neither of which make much sense or show much class.

[CB Fry]

Yes, I've understood it from the beginning, hence last Friday's events not surprising me in the slightest.

 

One thing that struck me in Pochettino's first interviews after joining was the regular reference to "the project"....which is a good way of looking at it. I work in the IT world and you generally work to c.5 year programmes and each programme will be comprised of several projects. It's common practice for project managers to specialise in different phases of a given programme. Nigel Adkins got assigned the "Get us to the premier league" project, or 'phase' of the programme. Pochettino is now managing the next phase....call it the "Take us into Europe" phase, or "project", if you will.

 

When people and the media look at Adkins being "sacked" and question the madness of the timing of it, what they are not doing is seeing the bigger picture IMO. It's quite clear to me that Cortese would have planned for the next "project manager" to have taken over from the previous project manager in the summer, as that was the natural delimiter between the two phases. But, what if the best project manager wasn't available to take over at that time? What do you do? What would we do in the IT world equivalent?

 

We'd do exactly what Cortese did....in the interests of continuity you would get the previous phase project manager to assume temporary control of the early stages of the next phase until your man became available.

 

I'm pretty sure Nigel knew WHAT was going to happen - quite possibly from the day he joined - I'm pretty sure he would have been expecting to go in the summer when 'his' project was successfully delivered.

 

We'll never know for sure if Cortese handled the eventual "exit day" with any sensitivity towards Adkins or not, but maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it. If this was an IT work stream / programme and I was in the Adkins roll of 'phase 1 project manager' I would know that there would come a day where, all of a sudden, the next project manager would become available and I would move on to something else. So, what might seem like a callous hatchet job to the outside world might actually just be a perception issue.

 

Anyway, rambling on a bit there, but the bottom line is that I 100% get Cortese's "Project" concept....perhaps its the football world that needs to catch up with successful business methodologies being used in an "old fashioned industry" such as football.

 

Ok, shoot me down....

 

I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much for "understanding it from the beginning". We all understand it. What Cortese wants to do is not complex or difficult to grasp, and is remarkably similar to the visions of leaders of many other clubs, our relegation stablemates Aston Villa for a start, and there are distinct echos of the Steve Gibson model in everything Cortese wants to do.

 

It aint rocket science and the Cortese plan/model/vision/project is nothing that no one else has already thought of.

 

And fine, we can all talk down at people about not seeing the "bigger picture", but let's not forget we are some way off resolving the smaller picture of staying in this division.

 

And lastly, there are other elements to the "big picture", like the benefits of steady, incremental growth, the benefits of stability under a proven manager, the feeling that success is not chased at absolutely any cost, and so on. These are all just as relevent to a "big picture" as the Cortese attitude of "I will do what I want and to hell with everyone else".

 

I also like the bigger picture that clubs like Stoke, or West Brom, or Swansea are doing very nicely in this division with their own "projects", which have slight differences to the Cortese project, but personally I find their visions far more engaging than that of our current chairman.

 

To echo your workplace analogy, what I have learnt is bringing others along with you is a vital element of any project, and it is something that is currently lacking.

 

So don't worry about people not "understanding" the "project" like you. We all understand it.

Edited 23 January, 2013 by CB Fry

[Frank's cousin]

Think there are two types of 'shocked and disgusted' - those genuinely upset that the club can appear so callous - or unrewarding of the work NA has put in.... and the way in which there appears no recognition - may be perception only, but perception is everything in this case. some or all of this group may see teh logic in the decsion, but are still angry about the way it appears to have been done - as you say we do not know the details of what happened on exit day, which is alos something that fuels further speculation.

 

The second group may or may not agree with the the logic, but see it as symptomatic of the way football has gone/going. They have difficulties with the whole commercialisation, disenfranchising the 'traditional fan' (a loose term that IMHO is not a seasy to define as some think it is). Cortese is seen as the driver behind shifting away from the 'traditional values' of a community based club and actively embracing what is considered by some 'wrong' with the modern game. Therefore, whether the footballing logic is there or not, is irrelevent to them as its more about the clubs willingness to make them.

 

There is OBVIOUSLY a human aspect that I would we all agree is questionable behaviour - with the caveat that we dont know the full story - but I still come back to the hypocrissy of many fans who are ahppy to sling ridicule at player s or managers they DONT like and are more than happy for them to be slung on the scrap heap and forgotten - Pulis, Forecast etc and there are countless examples - did the fan reaction to Branfoot show us in the best light, we seemed not to care about personnal attacks on a person because of footballing reasons, yet when its turned round, its only Cortese who is guitly of 'disgusting and immoral behaviour' - That is what I find hard to reconcile.

 

Whether the decsion works and is right from a footballing perspective, time will tell.

[The Kraken]

I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much for "understanding it from the beginning". We all understand it. What Cortese wants to do is not complex or difficult to grasp, and is remarkably similar to the visions of leaders of many other clubs, our relegation stablemates Aston Villa for a start, and there are distinct echos of the Steve Gibson model in everything Cortese wants to do.

 

It aint rocket science and the Cortese plan/model/vision/project is nothing that no one else has already thought of.

 

And fine, we can all talk down at people about not seeing the "bigger picture", but let's not forget we are some way off resolving the smaller picture of staying in this division.

 

And lastly, there are other elements to the "big picture", like the benefits of steady, incremental growth, the benefits of stability under a proven manager, the feeling that success is not chased at absolutely any cost, and so on. These are all just as relevent to a "big picture" as the Cortese attitude of "I will do what I want and to hell with everyone else".

 

I also like the bigger picture that clubs like Stoke, or West Brom, or Swansea are doing very nicely in this division with their own "projects", which have slight differences to the Cortese project, but personally I find their visions far more engaging than that of our current chairman.

 

To echo your workplace analogy, what I have learnt is bringing others along with you is a vital element of any project, and it is something that is currently lacking.

 

So don't worry about people not "understanding" the "project" like you. We all understand it.

 

[Miltonroader07]

I think NC's heart is in the right place he just has not PA or Personal skills, if that keeps us in the Prem and moves on into Europe than I am happy. I get a good feeling from MP and I for one back him 100% COYR

[hypochondriac]

Excellent from CB Fry again.

[Wurzel]

In reply to Trousers - above :

 

So the main thing NA did wrong was to deliver the project ahead of schedule ?

 

I think this sort of analysis might well provide an insight into NA's reactions after the Coventry game at the end of last season.

 

Not really. He was given a longish contract (4 years?) , he completed his part of the project early, he can now have his contract paid up in full and do what he likes for the next 18 months or so . Might not be exactly how he wanted it to end but everyone's a winner - provided of course that the New Man does indeed turn out to be the better man for the "next" project, for that only time will tell.

[St Marco]

I think we all understood the plan. It is exciting to see where we are headed.

 

But I think there is a right way of going about things and the way Adkins was sacked was not the right way.

 

I hope we do go on to bigger and better things but not by burning bridges and forgetting those who helped us to get there.

[Frank's cousin]

I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much for "understanding it from the beginning". We all understand it. What Cortese wants to do is not complex or difficult to grasp, and is remarkably similar to the visions of leaders of many other clubs, our relegation stablemates Aston Villa for a start, and there are distinct echos of the Steve Gibson model in everything Cortese wants to do.

 

It aint rocket science and the Cortese plan/model/vision/project is nothing that no one else has already thought of.

 

And fine, we can all talk down at people about not seeing the bigger picture, but let's not forget we are some way off resolving the smaller picture of staying in this division.

 

And there are other elements to the "big picture", like the benefits of steady, incremental growth, the benefits of stability under a proven manager, the feeling that success is not chased at absolutely any cost, and so on. These are all just as relevent to a "big picture" as the Cortese attitude of "I will do what I want and to hell with everyone else".

 

To echo your workplace analogy, what I have learnt is bringing others along with you is a vital element of any project, and it is something that is currently lacking.

 

So don't worry about people not "understanding" the "project" like you. We all understand it.

 

This is the problem CB, that there are multiple issues intertwinned. 1) the moral issues about the sacking, 2) the footballing rational behind the sacking, 3) the concerns that some have about autocratic decision making, 4) the 'plan or project, and whether there IS any differentiation etc

 

Personnally I think you may be being too cynical on the 'plan - yes it may have been tried before, yes it may not be a wholly new model, but where others have failed, instead of just assuming ours will, identify WHY they failed and look to overcome it. I believe our biggest challenge will be as Cortese himself said, how the club creates a culture that keeps the best talent at the club unti they realize their full potential - there is a big difference between selling a Luke Shaw at 17//18 for 6 or 7 mil and selling him at 23 for 30mil + and reinvesting that as the next one comes off the conveyor belt - That to me is the biggest unanswered question.

[ART]

Nicola's heart is no more in the right place than was Rupert Lowe. Both have the same objectives for Saints long term future. It all depends on whether you approve of Poortviet/ Wotte's sexy/open football or Pochettino's vision of us playing like Barcelona. The parallel's in all the trumpet blasting that left us as a laughing stock is too close for comfort. Porchettino's got too much to say. It's early days.

[Frank's cousin]

Nicola's heart is no more in the right place than was Rupert Lowe. Both have the same objectives for Saints long term future. It all depends on whether you approve of Poortviet/ Wotte's sexy/open football or Pochettino's vision of us playing like Barcelona. The parallel's in all the trumpet blasting that left us as a laughing stock is too close for comfort. Porchettino's got too much to say. It's early days.

 

This always make me laugh (appropriate I suppose) - who gives a flying feck what others think of us, Are our egos really that fragile? You also need to differentiate between good ideas badly executed or with the wrong personnel/no funding - and good ideas... Youth/open sexy football is a great idea - you just need the talent and quality to make it work.

[trousers]

I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much for "understanding it from the beginning". We all understand it. What Cortese wants to do is not complex or difficult to grasp, and is remarkably similar to the visions of leaders of many other clubs, our relegation stablemates Aston Villa for a start, and there are distinct echos of the Steve Gibson model in everything Cortese wants to do.

 

It aint rocket science and the Cortese plan/model/vision/project is nothing that no one else has already thought of.

 

And fine, we can all talk down at people about not seeing the "bigger picture", but let's not forget we are some way off resolving the smaller picture of staying in this division.

 

And lastly, there are other elements to the "big picture", like the benefits of steady, incremental growth, the benefits of stability under a proven manager, the feeling that success is not chased at absolutely any cost, and so on. These are all just as relevent to a "big picture" as the Cortese attitude of "I will do what I want and to hell with everyone else".

 

I also like the bigger picture that clubs like Stoke, or West Brom, or Swansea are doing very nicely in this division with their own "projects", which have slight differences to the Cortese project, but personally I find their visions far more engaging than that of our current chairman.

 

To echo your workplace analogy, what I have learnt is bringing others along with you is a vital element of any project, and it is something that is currently lacking.

 

So don't worry about people not "understanding" the "project" like you. We all understand it.

 

Fair enough

[toe_punt]

I work in the IT world .

 

 

There are few people with a higher pay to ability ratio than "IT" types.

 

Joe works at Sainsbury, then takes a two week course on Cisco Networking and becomes a fully qualified IT guru.

 

I'd be less proud of it if I were you.

[hypochondriac]

There are few people with a higher pay to ability ratio than "IT" types.

 

Joe works at Sainsbury, then takes a two week course on Cisco Networking and becomes a fully qualified IT guru.

 

I'd be less proud of it if I were you.

 

Bit of a sweeping generalisation that. And I should know seeing as I am involved in childcare.

[sandwichsaint]

There are few people with a higher pay to ability ratio than "IT" types.

 

Joe works at Sainsbury, then takes a two week course on Cisco Networking and becomes a fully qualified IT guru.

 

I'd be less proud of it if I were you.

 

I'd have thought the opposite, ignore the top end, at the middle and bottom I'd say IT types are very modestly remunerated for their skills and the responsibility they have. Doesn't help that they have zero people skills and that their work goes pretty much unseen until there's a problem.

[danner]

Really good article come on you saints !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dubai_phil]

Crikey, what's happened to Trousers?

 

Just put up one of the posts of the week

 

But seriously.

 

I am not in the least bit surprised. NC is a Banker, they invest money in Businesses that have a plan or a strategy and can show a Return. Yeah I know it is not the way Football should be run (Cloth Caps and standing in the rain waving rattles etc).

 

BUT NC got hold of a Business Plan. He did what any wise & successful Businessman would do - went out and sought advice and off he went.

 

He TOLD us what he intended to do on day one. So it has not been rocket science. It is clear that the players bought into it and of course Adkins bought into it.

 

The rest of us simply sit here and, along with the media keep saying "he must be mad". That is not how it is done.

 

Well, why the hell not? Arsenal did something similar but seem to have lost their way of late (perhaps they should have upgraded Wenger?) Swansea have done something similar, and to an extent Villa have tried something similar.

 

But, now here is the rub. THIS IS NOTHING NEW TO SAINTS.

 

It is, to all intents and purposes as if NC simply walked in to SMS, opened a filing cabinet and found Rupert Lowes "Business Plan". There really was nothing wrong with the idea Rupert had. The problem was simply the man himself.

 

Cortese (from what we have heard) does seem to talk to people in football, he does seem to listen (Mourinho telling him about Mo Po as an example) whereas Rupert went around "Knowing it all" (well he kept telling us he knew it all every week in the programme/media)

Also the other difference is NC has the money. (Even without Liebherr we have 60mil this year, a squad worth what we paid for it IF we get relegated and FOUR years of INCREASED parachute payments.

 

So it is no surprise to me

 

(Although I must admit to thinking he must be madder than a Boruc IF he really believes it can work)

 

But wow, what if it did?

[trousers]

There are few people with a higher pay to ability ratio than "IT" types.

 

Joe works at Sainsbury, then takes a two week course on Cisco Networking and becomes a fully qualified IT guru.

 

I'd be less proud of it if I were you.

 

My analogy (poor or otherwise as it may be) wasn't about the IT industry per se - my focus was on 'programme and project management philosophies' which I'm sure are largely industry agnostic. The IT thing was my backdrop of choice 'cause its what I'm used to.

 

It's just one man's observation so take it with the obligatory pinch of salt.

[Faz]

My analogy (poor or otherwise as it may be) wasn't about the IT industry per se - my focus was on 'programme and project management philosophies' which I'm sure are largely industry agnostic. The IT thing was my backdrop of choice 'cause its what I'm used to.

 

It's just one man's observation so take it with the obligatory pinch of salt.

 

I wouldn't be too proud of your pinch of salt comment if I were you.

 

There are lots of people with salt intolerance who will snipe with an unnecessarily belligerent response.

[trousers]

Proud my arse!

[BadgerBadger]

There are few people with a higher pay to ability ratio than "IT" types.

 

Joe works at Sainsbury, then takes a two week course on Cisco Networking and becomes a fully qualified IT guru.

 

I'd be less proud of it if I were you.

I'd be proud if I went from Sainsbury to fully qualified Cisco networking IT guru in 2 weeks

[The Kraken]

I'd be proud if I went from Sainsbury to fully qualified Cisco networking IT guru in 2 weeks

 

Depends. If you're the CEO of Sainsbury and then end up as some IT monkey I'd say its a bit of a downgrade.

[Turkish]

I'd be proud if I went from Sainsbury to fully qualified Cisco networking IT guru in 2 weeks

 

You'd also be on the dole within a week as you wouldn't have a clue what you are on about.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Managers come and go like the tide, and its probably not worth getting overexcited about it. But looking beyond todays headlines to the longer term strategy the club is pursuing, this grand plan of Nicola Cortese's to spend a fortune of our late owners money turning what is in truth a middle sized regional club into a top ten - top five maybe - force in the Premier League is as mad as a box of frogs.

 

Even if we spent enough Liebherr cash to get up to those heady heights, how on earth can a club of this modest size sustain that position in the long term? Expanding St Marys, or a new 45,000 seat stadium, might I suppose give us the income required to compete with the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs etc on a more level playing field, but those clubs have massive nationwide/international support and the evidence of my eyes tells me we can't even sell out every PL fixture as of now. So where are these extra fans coming from? You could attract significantly more support from our (theoretically sizable) catchment area if you cut the prices perhaps - but the trouble with that is that it just destroys the economic case for building a bigger stadium in the first place.

 

I'm all in favour of making this club a established Premier League member for years/decades to come, that's not a unreasonable ambition in my view. But if we push the boat out too far chasing one egotist's dream of European Football then I've got a horrible feeling it's all going to end in tears one day.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much for "understanding it from the beginning". We all understand it. What Cortese wants to do is not complex or difficult to grasp, and is remarkably similar to the visions of leaders of many other clubs, our relegation stablemates Aston Villa for a start, and there are distinct echos of the Steve Gibson model in everything Cortese wants to do.

 

It aint rocket science and the Cortese plan/model/vision/project is nothing that no one else has already thought of.

 

 

And fine, we can all talk down at people about not seeing the "bigger picture", but let's not forget we are some way off resolving the smaller picture of staying in this division.

 

And lastly, there are other elements to the "big picture", like the benefits of steady, incremental growth, the benefits of stability under a proven manager, the feeling that success is not chased at absolutely any cost, and so on. These are all just as relevent to a "big picture" as the Cortese attitude of "I will do what I want and to hell with everyone else".

 

I also like the bigger picture that clubs like Stoke, or West Brom, or Swansea are doing very nicely in this division with their own "projects", which have slight differences to the Cortese project, but personally I find their visions far more engaging than that of our current chairman.

 

To echo your workplace analogy, what I have learnt is bringing others along with you is a vital element of any project, and it is something that is currently lacking.

 

So don't worry about people not "understanding" the "project" like you. We all understand it.

 

Top top post

[david in sweden]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11096/8428233/Saints-masterplan

Of course, it may just be that newspapers need to 'evolve' their articles if they want to keep something in the news for more than a few days, but could it also be that now the dust is beginning to settle most people are coming round to the idea that there may be some logic to removing Adkins?

 

 

Honestly?..I think most of us on this site, can't get our head around the idea that Saints might become a force in English football - (as they were in the McMenemy era)... Cortese obviously can.

 

Those with longer memories (especially in my generation) can remember a lot of bad times, as well as SOME good. Some exciting games, some legendary players, but never a lot of success.

 

Nicola Cortese despite his (apparant) cold-hearted approach to running things may be disliked by some, but he obviously has plans that few of us can comprehend...and has the money to carry it through.

 

There seem to be some parallels between the "sacking " of Dave Jones and subsequently importing Hoddle..... and the happenings last week.

I think it's fair to say that Dave Jones never received the adoration that Nigel Adkins has enjoyed in the last 2 years, when many people thought him to be a miracle worker by getting us out of L1 ..but then doubted that Rickie Lambert could make it as a striker in the Championship ! (it didn't take long to put that fear to bed)....last season's record speaks for itself.

 

Only time will tell if MP will be accepted in the same way as NA was, but securing safety and getting a few shock results will go a long way to winning over the doubtful fans.

The key factor will be if Cortese's ideas will work ....whereas David Cameron doesn't dare to accept the challenge of Europe with the same enthusiasm..

 

Cortese is more confident of a future in Europe, but some people on here seem to be " afraid " (or maybe I should say - apprehensive).. of what might happen IF...it all goes pear-shaped.

Only will tell, and the first measure of that will be on 20th May. Meanwhile, we look forward to a new managerial regime and some attractive football .....and a lot more points. COYR!!

[trousers]

Top top post

 

Why exactly is it a good article? Because it conforms to what you wish to believe or because it has any basis in fact? Just asking.

 

What happens to the above analysis if you replace "good article" with "top top post"...?

[Barry Sanchez]

Managers come and go like the tide, and its probably not worth getting overexcited about it. But looking beyond todays headlines to the longer term strategy the club is pursuing, this grand plan of Nicola Cortese's to spend a fortune of our late owners money turning what is in truth a middle sized regional club into a top ten - top five maybe - force in the Premier League is as mad as a box of frogs.

 

Even if we spent enough Liebherr cash to get up to those heady heights, how on earth can a club of this modest size sustain that position in the long term? Expanding St Marys, or a new 45,000 seat stadium, might I suppose give us the income required to compete with the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs etc on a more level playing field, but those clubs have massive nationwide/international support and the evidence of my eyes tells me we can't even sell out every PL fixture as of now. So where are these extra fans coming from? You could attract significantly more support from our (theoretically sizable) catchment area if you cut the prices perhaps - but the trouble with that is that it just destroys the economic case for building a bigger stadium in the first place.

 

I'm all in favour of making this club a established Premier League member for years/decades to come, that's not a unreasonable ambition in my view. But if we push the boat out too far chasing one egotist's dream of European Football then I've got a horrible feeling it's all going to end in tears one day.

 

This ^^^

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

What happens to the above analysis if you replace "good article" with "top top post"...?

 

You get "top top post"...

 

Not sure how you can compare the two though.

[trousers]

You get "top top post"...

 

Not sure how you can compare the two though.

 

You appeared to be criticising someone's unqualified praise for a piece of prose and then you appeared to offer unqualified praise for another piece of prose yourself. That was the comparison I was trying to make, although concede I may be borderline comparing apples with oranges. Anyhow, just an unconstructive observation on my part so I apologise.

[Professor]

Have to come clean, as indicated by my other posts over the last few days, that I was never an Adkins fan. I felt he benefitted mainly from Pardew's legacy and didn't add a lot himself, but neither did I blame him for the failure to do more team building in the close season, which I put down more to the Chairman or Les Reed. I suppose what let Adkins down in my eyes was his inconsistency in selections and tactics as well as his inability to provide effective post-match analysis. I wasn’t impressed when he would trot out the same repetitive lines about everyone working very hard. If that was how he spoke to the players, I wondered if it would instil much confidence in him.

 

If the pro-Adkins fans, of whom there seem to be fewer than was initially indicated, need some encouragement for the future, surely it is that if you thought Adkins was doing well, by possibly but not definitely, keeping us up, clearly the Chairman did not share that view. The sacking shows we have a chairman who wants to see Saints doing better than just surviving. His statements about being in the in the top half of the League and becoming a force in English football appear to be what he really intends. Whether his appointment of Pochettino will achieve that, only time will tell and his commitment to bringing through Academy players may limit the number of players he will bring in by transfer but surely it’s better for Saints’ fans to have a chairman who wants the club to go places rather than one who would accept mediocrity.

[stevegrant]

Managers come and go like the tide, and its probably not worth getting overexcited about it. But looking beyond todays headlines to the longer term strategy the club is pursuing, this grand plan of Nicola Cortese's to spend a fortune of our late owners money turning what is in truth a middle sized regional club into a top ten - top five maybe - force in the Premier League is as mad as a box of frogs.

 

Even if we spent enough Liebherr cash to get up to those heady heights, how on earth can a club of this modest size sustain that position in the long term? Expanding St Marys, or a new 45,000 seat stadium, might I suppose give us the income required to compete with the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs etc on a more level playing field, but those clubs have massive nationwide/international support and the evidence of my eyes tells me we can't even sell out every PL fixture as of now. So where are these extra fans coming from? You could attract significantly more support from our (theoretically sizable) catchment area if you cut the prices perhaps - but the trouble with that is that it just destroys the economic case for building a bigger stadium in the first place.

 

I'm all in favour of making this club a established Premier League member for years/decades to come, that's not a unreasonable ambition in my view. But if we push the boat out too far chasing one egotist's dream of European Football then I've got a horrible feeling it's all going to end in tears one day.

Spot on, IMO

[david in sweden]

Managers come and go like the tide, and its probably not worth getting overexcited about it. But looking beyond todays headlines to the longer term strategy the club is pursuing, this grand plan of Nicola Cortese's to spend a fortune of our late owners money turning what is in truth a middle sized regional club into a top ten - top five maybe - force in the Premier League is as mad as a box of frogs.

 

Even if we spent enough Liebherr cash to get up to those heady heights, how on earth can a club of this modest size sustain that position in the long term? Expanding St Marys, or a new 45,000 seat stadium, might I suppose give us the income required to compete with the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs etc on a more level playing field, but those clubs have massive nationwide/international support and the evidence of my eyes tells me we can't even sell out every PL fixture as of now. So where are these extra fans coming from? You could attract significantly more support from our (theoretically sizable) catchment area if you cut the prices perhaps - but the trouble with that is that it just destroys the economic case for building a bigger stadium in the first place.

 

I'm all in favour of making this club a established Premier League member for years/decades to come, that's not a unreasonable ambition in my view. But if we push the boat out too far chasing one egotist's dream of European Football then I've got a horrible feeling it's all going to end in tears one day.

 

 

I think we may be missing the bigger picture here.

Of course the "idea " of a 45K arena sounds impressive, but we might only get close to that on rare occasions even if we were top four . and we gained an extra 50% new fans - and most unlikely.

 

Example. Say an average seat price is £30.....

a 30K gate would bring in around £1 million per game. Now only 19 league games per season (23 last season) and no guarantee of home ties in Cups !

poss.income. c.£20 million? .....maybe the majority of one years' salaries ? (guess work)?

 

If prices were to be increased .say 20%...the net increase would only be approx. £4 million ..perhaps less if some people couldn't afford the higher prices. So still only upto £24 million.

 

The real income is coming from the TV revenues. I've read vastly ranging figures from £60-£90 million....but in any case it's where the big money comes from...

 

Several of the London clubs get much over 35 K gates, maybe we could stick with SMS as it is ?

[Barry Sanchez]

I was never an Adkins fan as my posts indicate before he was sacked, this should be about more than that though, what about respect and dignity?

 

If Cortese fails we fail, how much of his personal wealth is he putting into this ego trip sorry business venture sorry football club?

None, if it fails he walks and we have a club with possibly no money and in a lower League, worth the punt being a club known with no morals?

 

Silence is consent.

[CB Fry]

Managers come and go like the tide, and its probably not worth getting overexcited about it. But looking beyond todays headlines to the longer term strategy the club is pursuing, this grand plan of Nicola Cortese's to spend a fortune of our late owners money turning what is in truth a middle sized regional club into a top ten - top five maybe - force in the Premier League is as mad as a box of frogs.

 

Even if we spent enough Liebherr cash to get up to those heady heights, how on earth can a club of this modest size sustain that position in the long term? Expanding St Marys, or a new 45,000 seat stadium, might I suppose give us the income required to compete with the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs etc on a more level playing field, but those clubs have massive nationwide/international support and the evidence of my eyes tells me we can't even sell out every PL fixture as of now. So where are these extra fans coming from? You could attract significantly more support from our (theoretically sizable) catchment area if you cut the prices perhaps - but the trouble with that is that it just destroys the economic case for building a bigger stadium in the first place.

 

I'm all in favour of making this club a established Premier League member for years/decades to come, that's not a unreasonable ambition in my view. But if we push the boat out too far chasing one egotist's dream of European Football then I've got a horrible feeling it's all going to end in tears one day.

 

Top top post.

[austsaint]

Great posts by C.B. Fry, Frank's Cousin and Chapel End Charlie - should be sent to Nic's account.

[Sheaf Saint]

Managers come and go like the tide, and its probably not worth getting overexcited about it. But looking beyond todays headlines to the longer term strategy the club is pursuing, this grand plan of Nicola Cortese's to spend a fortune of our late owners money turning what is in truth a middle sized regional club into a top ten - top five maybe - force in the Premier League is as mad as a box of frogs.

 

Even if we spent enough Liebherr cash to get up to those heady heights, how on earth can a club of this modest size sustain that position in the long term? Expanding St Marys, or a new 45,000 seat stadium, might I suppose give us the income required to compete with the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs etc on a more level playing field, but those clubs have massive nationwide/international support and the evidence of my eyes tells me we can't even sell out every PL fixture as of now. So where are these extra fans coming from? You could attract significantly more support from our (theoretically sizable) catchment area if you cut the prices perhaps - but the trouble with that is that it just destroys the economic case for building a bigger stadium in the first place.

 

I'm all in favour of making this club a established Premier League member for years/decades to come, that's not a unreasonable ambition in my view. But if we push the boat out too far chasing one egotist's dream of European Football then I've got a horrible feeling it's all going to end in tears one day.

 

This post has articulated my feelings about the matter far better than I could have. All bragging aside, we are just a medium-sized provincial club with an average fanbase. To gamble the future of the club on some delusions of grandeur about regular Champions League football, as Cortese appears to be doing, is sheer madness. We only need to look a few miles down the M27 to see what happened last time somebody adopted this strategy. The reason I was in favour of keeping Adkins is because he was exactly the kind of manager that could maintain a stable team with realistic ambitions. We all point the accusing finger at the Pompey fans on the PTS thread about how they happily ignored the impending train-wreck in order to bask in the short-term glory, and less than a week after Adkins was replaced, I see a good number of saints fans apparently doing exactly the same.

 

I really don't want to be the one to say "I told you so" when it inevitably goes horribly wrong.

[CB Fry]

This post has articulated my feelings about the matter far better than I could have. All bragging aside, we are just a medium-sized provincial club with an average fanbase. To gamble the future of the club on some delusions of grandeur about regular Champions League football, as Cortese appears to be doing, is sheer madness. We only need to look a few miles down the M27 to see what happened last time somebody adopted this strategy. The reason I was in favour of keeping Adkins is because he was exactly the kind of manager that could maintain a stable team with realistic ambitions. We all point the accusing finger at the Pompey fans on the PTS thread about how they happily ignored the impending train-wreck in order to bask in the short-term glory, and less than a week after Adkins was replaced, I see a good number of saints fans apparently doing exactly the same.

 

I really don't want to be the one to say "I told you so" when it inevitably goes horribly wrong.

 

Yes indeed.

 

The one phrase I think I said repeatedly to my two brothers and my friends I talk Saints with last Friday was "he could have been our Tony Pulis".

 

And that is all I wanted. Solid, regular mid table Prem football. A cup run. A euro adventure. A bumpy relegation scrap. Occasionally beating Arsenal. Youngsters coming through. Unearthing bargains from lower divisions and abroad. The reputation, well earned, of playing "lovely stuff". A manager, not glam enough to ever leave but too bloody good to ever fail.

 

I think we had that in the palm of our hand. Now I am not so sure.