Bucks Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 The point of this thread should not have been an 'Are you loyal or not?' discussion, but rather the implications for all fans (loyal or otherwise) in accepting the continuing influence of money on the game of football, and the impact it has on us... it is nothing new but as we get nearer the top of the pyramid we increasingly experience the more ruthless side of it, and it starts to clash more with our values and opinions on how things should be. And each time something happens, fans will continue to choose, often subconsciously, whether to accept it, or walk away, or try to change it in some way. As has now been illustrated above, more and more fans are considering walking away. Nail on head, top post. It is much, much more than just ticket prices (but a debate on the increasing cost is understandable) and it has nothing to do with who is the best fan or not, despite the provocation of trolls on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 Nail on head, top post. It is much, much more than just ticket prices (but a debate on the increasing cost is understandable) and it has nothing to do with who is the best fan or not, despite the provocation of trolls on here I am the troll yet you are the one making stuff up to provoke a reaction. Seriously? If you truly believe that at the moment is one of the worst periods in the history of our club then frankly I'm not sure what you want and I would suggest you do as your mates have and no longer support the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 I am the troll yet you are the one making stuff up to provoke a reaction. Seriously? If you truly believe that at the moment is one of the worst periods in the history of our club then frankly I'm not sure what you want and I would suggest you do as your mates have and no longer support the side. Trolling again. I have never said I believe any such thing. What did I make up, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 Trolling again. I have never said I believe any such thing. What did I make up, exactly? The better fans part. My whole point is as follows: Loyal is constant and unwavering support for a person or institution. By these fans stopping going this has shown a wavering as to their support of the club. By definition they are no longer loyal fans. Surely even you must understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 Trolling again. I have never said I believe any such thing. What did I make up, exactly? By the way, how did our last argument go when I identified that Cortese was actively looking for a manager when Adkins was still in his job? Just interested because you acted like this in that thread too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 The better fans part. My whole point is as follows: Loyal is constant and unwavering support for a person or institution. By these fans stopping going this has shown a wavering as to their support of the club. By definition they are no longer loyal fans. Surely even you must understand that? "If you truly believe that at the moment is one of the worst periods in the history of our club". When did I say or even suggest this? "Why will the 'proper, loyal football fans' drift away? Surely if they are proper and loyal they'll stick with the club throughout?". There you go You refuse to understand that a fan can be a good, long serving, loyal fan and then start to question all of the points raised on here. From there, some are concluding they are going to stop attending. You carry on provoking though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 By the way, how did our last argument go when I identified that Cortese was actively looking for a manager when Adkins was still in his job? Just interested because you acted like this in that thread too. You were right. I have already apologised for being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 You were right. I have already apologised for being wrong. Sorry if you did, I must have missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 "If you truly believe that at the moment is one of the worst periods in the history of our club". When did I say or even suggest this? "Why will the 'proper, loyal football fans' drift away? Surely if they are proper and loyal they'll stick with the club throughout?". There you go You refuse to understand that a fan can be a good, long serving, loyal fan and then start to question all of the points raised on here. From there, some are concluding they are going to stop attending. You carry on provoking though No, I do understand that, and I am happy for people to do that as I have mentioned in this thread, they are good long serving fans. They are not loyal however if they stop going, BY DEFINITION. They are no longer loyal because they have stopped going and wavered in their support for the club. I am talking the pure definition of the word, and that was my initial point. Quite why it has gone this far I have no idea whatsoever, because all it seems is that people have different definitions for the word 'loyal' in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 23 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 January, 2013 No, I do understand that, and I am happy for people to do that as I have mentioned in this thread, they are good long serving fans. They are not loyal however if they stop going, BY DEFINITION. They are no longer loyal because they have stopped going and wavered in their support for the club. I am talking the pure definition of the word, and that was my initial point. Quite why it has gone this far I have no idea whatsoever, because all it seems is that people have different definitions for the word 'loyal' in this context. Do we really have to keep going back to a discussion about the definition of 'loyal'? DPS has his meaning, seemingly most others have a different meaning (and it's the interpretation of the definition, not the definition itself that is causing the disagreement). There's been little new on this thread for the last 100 posts, there seems little point in labouring it... although I appreciate you are loyal to your cause! (Sorry...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 Do we really have to keep going back to a discussion about the definition of 'loyal'? DPS has his meaning, seemingly most others have a different meaning (and it's the interpretation of the definition, not the definition itself that is causing the disagreement). There's been little new on this thread for the last 100 posts, there seems little point in labouring it... although I appreciate you are loyal to your cause! (Sorry...) Zing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 The point of this thread should not have been an 'Are you loyal or not?' discussion, but rather the implications for all fans (loyal or otherwise) in accepting the continuing influence of money on the game of football, and the impact it has on us... it is nothing new but as we get nearer the top of the pyramid we increasingly experience the more ruthless side of it, and it starts to clash more with our values and opinions on how things should be. And each time something happens, fans will continue to choose, often subconsciously, whether to accept it, or walk away, or try to change it in some way. As has now been illustrated above, more and more fans are considering walking away. I don't disagree. My. Point yesterday was a simple one though that fans will walk and be replaced - I never Sid it's right but that its inevitable - most fans would see the dilemma being pulled in different directions - the base rational for supporti g a club and football is to see it grow , win and compete so - why else were we all on The pitch after Cov? Yet set against that is the reality that the price goes up And as a clue strives for success it becomes more and more commercially focused. i am not disagreeing with Sour Mash that this disenfranchises a group of fans, nor that the very group it most disenfranchises are many of those that traditionally stick with the club through thick and thin- and often the most vocal and younger fans, that is sadly a direct result. Where I disagree is that football fans belong to MANY 'sorts' - which also include many that went in L1 - myself included. Ther should not be any 'sort' that is considered better or who feel that football is exclusively for them- that is just daft- the second point is that the 'sorts' that go to football have changed before and will change again. I could make a strong case For those fans disenfranchised by the way football was in 70s and 80s - who only came back when they felt it was safe to take their kids again. Their view would be totally different in that the so called 'sanitisation' made is possible for them to return. Of course ticket prices no longer represent value - obviously but it comes back to the dilemma of success - we all seem to want to have our cake and eat it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 Possibly - but we're not like City, Arsenal or Everton. We've got longer memories and plumbed deeper depths in recent times. Someone's probably already posted something to this effect, but I was actually at Wembley Stadium to see City beat Gillingham in a penalty shoot-out for the last promotion spot from the 3rd Division in 1999. I don't think they'd gone into administration, or been docked 10 points - but I think those are pretty deep depths, and 14 years is *quite* recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 23 January, 2013 Share Posted 23 January, 2013 Someone's probably already posted something to this effect, but I was actually at Wembley Stadium to see City beat Gillingham in a penalty shoot-out for the last promotion spot from the 3rd Division in 1999. I don't think they'd gone into administration, or been docked 10 points - but I think those are pretty deep depths, and 14 years is *quite* recent. So was I. ****ing Paul Dickov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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